Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:23 AM - List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:05 AM - Re: Re: Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back edge (HelsperSew@aol.com)
2. 04:25 AM - Re: Re: Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back edge (Phillips, Jack)
3. 04:36 AM - Re: Re: Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal (Phillips, Jack)
4. 05:15 AM - Re: Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal (jimd)
5. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back edge (Scott Schreiber)
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| Subject: | List of Contributors |
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of
my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment
tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
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I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back edge |
Guys,
Since I tried to "make it better" by supporting and nailing down the aft
edge of the 1/16" plywood, I think I will cut the scalloped edge, simply because
it will be easier to cut away my "improvement"! This was done before I
discovered this list. Very helpful!!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
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| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back edge |
Neat idea with the Clorox bottle strips, Walt. I cut thin strips of
spruce and nailed through them, and they were a pain in the butt. They
split easily, and I had to use waxed paper to keep the glue from
sticking to them. Your idea is much better.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back
edge
Here's pics of mine.
Cut strips of a kitty litter bottle, or can use clorox bottle. Staple
thru
it. when dry pull off the strips. Glue doesn't stick to the strips.
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back
edge
<waltdak@verizon.net>
>
> I don't think anywhere in the plans it calls out to scallop the skin.
> It was said that just the straight trailing edge of the thin ply pulls
> down nicely when covered.
> If you stiffen the trailing edge you'll create a step.
> Mine came out very well un scalloped and unsupported
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> "No one ever learned anything by talking"
> Ben Franklin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:39 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back
edge
>
>
>> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>>
>> While we are discussing putting thin plywood on the face of the wings
to
>> shape the airfoil, what about the scalloped rear edge of any such
>> plywood skins?
>> I know this is a long way in sophistication from Mother's Oats stuff
>> first used by BP, but is it a real improvment? What does it really
do?
>> I understand the concept of the fabric lifting between the scallops
while
>> in flight, but what do the scallops really do?
>>
>> I plan to put 1/16" or 1.5mm ply skin on the airfoil face, but I'd
like
>> to avoid effecting these scallops unless they really change
performance.
>> Your comments, pls.
>>
>> (I hope I am being clear enough in describing this.)
>>
>> Tim in central TX
>>
>> ===========================================
>>>> [EXCERPT-- Tim]
>>>> Don't do it as one big piece.. thought about putting plywood
airfoil
>>>> shaped pieces on each rib, with about a one inch square opening for
a
>>>> piece of wood, then I could use longeron stock. Would end up
lighter,
>>>> could do with jigsaw and files. However it wouldn't provide much
>>>> support
>>>> to the leading edge skin as it would only make contact at each rib.
>>>>
>>>> This is for a GN-1 Biplane, which confuses the issue a little. The
top
>>>> wings are complete, they have a .026 aluminum wrapped leading edge
with
>>>> a
>>>> square 1" spar that touches the leading edge in two spots the full
>>>> length
>>>> of the wings. (The square part is along the very front of each rib)
so
>>>> it
>>>> provides some support.)
>>>>
>>>> The lower wing is what needs the spars, and then to be skinned with
>>>> something. My plans show a single piece of wood shaped to match the
>>>> airfoil profile, attached via flat head machine screws/bolts, at
each
>>>> rib.
>>>> There is no indication of wood or aluminum for leading edge skin.
Since
>>>> my
>>>> top wings have aluminum, and I am comfortable working with it I was
>>>> leaning toward skinning it with aluminum.
>>>>
>>>> Preference would be to follow plans, which would be to make up an
>>>> airfoil
>>>> shaped spar. How did you guys do this?
>>>>
>>>> I have a picture (not my plane, but same exact kind of shaped
piece) as
>>>> an
>>>> example of what I think I need.
>>>>
>>>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal |
Chuck is absolutely right. Aluminum is actually more difficult to
install than the plywood, adds nothing to the strength and gets dented
easier. It is also heavier. Other than all those items, it is great.
I seriously considered aluminum for my leading edge. I used aluminum
trailing edges and wish I had used wood like the plans show. Build it
per the plans and you won't be sorry. "Improve it" and it might be
better, but probably will be heavier and more difficult to build.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal
In a message dated 11/12/2007 9:17:39 PM Central Standard Time,
brian.kraut@engalt.com writes:
The GN-1 plans show .013" aluminum sheet on the leading edge.
The aluminum will cost less and be easier to install. Aluminum leading
edges also get dented up a lot easier than the plywood. Any opinions on
which is better?
Brian,
I still much prefer the plywood, because I don't think it is any more
difficult to install than aluminum, it is more durable than aluminum -
as you mentioned, and because wood and aluminum have different expansion
rates with temperature changes - which may cause some wavy looks, or
loosen the nails in the aluminum.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal |
I had same question a while ago. My top wing is GN-1 and has .026 aluminum, with
the brass coated nails. However it sat a long time in AZ and the nails were
pulling out. Consensus seems to be that wood is better, stiffer and it expands/contracts
more like the wood in the wings.
Think in my case I will end up using aluminum for bottom wing as it would look
odd to do one aluminum, other wood, and I am more comfortable working with aluminum.
(Lived in Wichita, KS, took sheet metal classes thinking I might need them
to work at Beechcraft/Boeing or Cessna ... fortunately career went other direction.)
Did see a nice tip on cutting sheet metal (light gage only) you can score it with
a hobby mat cutter a few times and get a clean line. Then bend it till it comes
clean off. Much easier to get a mat cutter than a good 8-10ft metal shear.
Snips make a pretty rough edge too.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145686#145686
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| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back edge |
How timely! I was just starting on this part myself and you just illustrated
everything I was uncertain about on the leading edge sheet.
-Scott
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