Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:08 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:07 AM - Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article (Ryan Mueller)
2. 08:04 AM - Re: Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article (pietn38b@aol.com)
3. 08:54 AM - Engine pre-heat (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 10:07 AM - Re: Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article (Gordon Bowen)
5. 10:28 AM - Re: Engine pre-heat (Gene & Tammy)
6. 11:34 AM - Re: Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article (jimboyer@hughes.net)
7. 04:13 PM - Re: Engine pre-heat (Gene & Tammy)
8. 06:02 PM - Re: Engine pre-heat (Dick Navratil)
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| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
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Message 1
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| Subject: | Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article |
In an article entitled "Pete tackles a passel of Pietenpols" from an old issue
of Air Trails (which I'm pretty sure was made available on mykitplane by Clif
Dawson, thanks Clif), Mr. Bowers says of the Pietenpol:
"The airplane was designed to use a heavy water-cooled engine up front; using a
lighter air-cooled engine calls for a longer nose or ballast to maintain proper
balance. The longer nose, with the already too-short rear fuselage, increases
the ground-looping tendency and "hunting" on takeoff."
And this sentence a little father on:
"One builder made his nose so long to handle a lighter engine that he had severe
ground handling problems."
I read these with the thought in my mind that I would still like to go with the
short fuselage for our Corvair powered Piet, to have slightly less structure
(and weight) aft, as well as having my heavy butt slightly farther forward. I'm
5'10, so fit won't be an issue. With the flying weight of a Corvair at somewhere
around 220 lbs it is not too far off from the Model A (compared to an A-65,
for example). The mount could be lengthened a bit to help the CG, along with
forward placement of the battery, and possibly a small fuselage fuel tank as
well.
Insofar as the comments that Mr. Bowers made in the article, can anyone with a
short fuselage non-Model A powered Piet comment on those statements. The example
that stands out in my mind is Chuck G's Ford to Continental conversion Piet,
with it's lengthy proboscis, although I have never read any negative comments
about his aircraft's flying characteristics.
Tis' a good weekend here; we're doing Thanksgiving early today, and one of our
guests is bringing us a new core Corvair. Stuffed with turkey and taking an engine
apart is a fine way to spend the day in my book. Have a good weekend,
Ryan
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| Subject: | Re: Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article |
I have not read Mr. Bowers piece so cannot comment on it. I do have a short
fuselage Piet with a Corvair engine. I was told I would have a w/b problem
so I retained the blower fan, cast iron manefolds and the original alternator
so my engine is probably a little heavier than need be. In order to to get
the w/b in range with my weight, I still had to move the fusegage about 4 in.
forward (wing 4in. back). The empty weight came out to 625 lbs. and it flies
great. Jim
Message 3
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Well now... another thing we don't need here in S. Texas (engine pre-heat),
along with ice scrapers ;o)
Flew about an hour yesterday. Low ceiling and a bit cool (temps in the 60s
) but perfect for low and slow Pietenpoling. I wore a khaki flying helmet
and goggles, and it was the first time I've flown the airplane without hear
ing protectors. Very interesting to hear the engine's roar and the wires w
histle and sing. I was doing circuits just to hear the engine roar on take
off and the wires sing on final. Wish I could fly without the hearing muff
s all the time but years of shooting have messed up my hearing and I don't
want to lose what I have left.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@
hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article |
I have a o-235 engine with heavy GM starter on my quasi-Piete (aeronca
wings), but I'm also over 250lbs. Plane come in at 685lbs. This
heavier engine moved forward about 4" by lengthing the motor mount, was
all intended to get the loaded cg right in the middle of the w/b
envelope. Considering angular momentum (lots of wt distributed further
away from center of yaw) the thing should want to ground loop or be
goosey to taxi, but it's not. Not just my opinion, N-1033B is very
easy to handle, according to guys who have also flown it with experience
in Bowers Flybabies and many other taildraggers, factory made or
homebuilt. So I think if you get the cg right in loaded config you'll
find it doesn't make a heck of a lot of diff in handling, you still
have to do a bit of a rudder tapdance in any taildragger. The amount of
tapdance will depend on your ability to handle crosswinds and have the
plane lined up with the runway on touchdown.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about a Pete Bower comment from an
old article
In an article entitled "Pete tackles a passel of Pietenpols" from an
old issue of Air Trails (which I'm pretty sure was made available on
mykitplane by Clif Dawson, thanks Clif), Mr. Bowers says of the
Pietenpol:
"The airplane was designed to use a heavy water-cooled engine up
front; using a lighter air-cooled engine calls for a longer nose or
ballast to maintain proper balance. The longer nose, with the already
too-short rear fuselage, increases the ground-looping tendency and
"hunting" on takeoff."
And this sentence a little father on:
"One builder made his nose so long to handle a lighter engine that he
had severe ground handling problems."
I read these with the thought in my mind that I would still like to go
with the short fuselage for our Corvair powered Piet, to have slightly
less structure (and weight) aft, as well as having my heavy butt
slightly farther forward. I'm 5'10, so fit won't be an issue. With the
flying weight of a Corvair at somewhere around 220 lbs it is not too far
off from the Model A (compared to an A-65, for example). The mount could
be lengthened a bit to help the CG, along with forward placement of the
battery, and possibly a small fuselage fuel tank as well.
Insofar as the comments that Mr. Bowers made in the article, can
anyone with a short fuselage non-Model A powered Piet comment on those
statements. The example that stands out in my mind is Chuck G's Ford to
Continental conversion Piet, with it's lengthy proboscis, although I
have never read any negative comments about his aircraft's flying
characteristics.
Tis' a good weekend here; we're doing Thanksgiving early today, and
one of our guests is bringing us a new core Corvair. Stuffed with turkey
and taking an engine apart is a fine way to spend the day in my book.
Have a good weekend,
Ryan
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| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
Oscar, a short time ago you wrote and told us about your new adventures
using a grass strip. If you think that was fun, you should try flying
your Piet in cool weather. When you've done that, then try ski flying.
I'll guarantee you you'll never look back at sand fleas and tumbleweeds
again and winter will be your favorite time of the year.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat
Well now... another thing we don't need here in S. Texas (engine
pre-heat), along with ice scrapers ;o)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article |
Hi Ryan,
You should contact the people with Corvairs in their Piet. William Wynne had a
Piet with a Corvair and flew it many hours. Also can't remember the name, but
there is another gentleman with a Piet with a Corvair there in Florida with (I
testing my memory here) 700 or 800 hours on the Piet/Corvair combo.
Also Chuch Gantzer and Mike Cuy have Piets with Continental engines. I don't believe
any of the four have mentioned any problems with handling.
Maybe Bowers was just enamored of his own design the Flybaby. Do
n't know if he ever built a Piet; may have flown them and may not have. Ask the
people with the Piets.
Cheers, Jim
Do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
Thanks to all who answered my engine pre-heat question. You've given me
lots of good ideas. My old Herman Nelson gas heater worked great but
it's now time to use something else.
We get almost no snow here in Western Tennessee but will need to use a
pre-heater off and on thruout the winter. Really envy those of you that
will get some ski flying in and those of you that get to use the frozen
lakes for landing strips. Winter for the adventurous Piet pilot is
indeed a wonderland.
Safe flying to all
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: AzevedoFlyer@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat
Gene,
I use a small ceramic space heater with a fan. A $12 - $15 job bought
at Lowe's.
What I do differently is to hang it on the cowling cooling inlet. The
proverbial blanket goes on top.
Thus, in my case, the hot air stream flows the opposite of many
recommendations. Top to bottom. Most heat from the bottom thinking warm
air waft upwards, right? Well, if the engine is stone cold, heating it
from top will cool the warm air and it will naturally sink.This pulls in
the warm air which gets cold etc.
Unless you have a powerful blow, heating from bellow the air gets cold
in contact with metal and sinks back against the incoming stream. Think
about it. I get my O-320 warm to the touch in 20 minutes or so, about
the time for a thorough check of the old bird.
Cheers,
Miguel
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11/8/2007 9:29 AM
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
Gene
I havent flown my Piety during winter in the past, but I'm going to try
it this year. I was out yesterday late afternoon for a bit. 37 degrees
on the ground when I left 35 coming back in. With the long undies and
the rest of the warm clothing it wasnt bad. Tommorrow I'll be out
again. I'm finding that radial engine is a bit hard starting when cold.
I'll be trying the pre heating tips in this thread.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat
Thanks to all who answered my engine pre-heat question. You've given
me lots of good ideas. My old Herman Nelson gas heater worked great
but it's now time to use something else.
We get almost no snow here in Western Tennessee but will need to use a
pre-heater off and on thruout the winter. Really envy those of you that
will get some ski flying in and those of you that get to use the frozen
lakes for landing strips. Winter for the adventurous Piet pilot is
indeed a wonderland.
Safe flying to all
Gene
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Edition. 11/8/2007 9:29 AM
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