---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/19/07: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:37 AM - starting the warm A65 (Oscar Zuniga) 2. 06:06 AM - Re: starting the warm A65 (Steve Ruse) 3. 06:08 AM - Re: starting the warm A65 (Phillips, Jack) 4. 06:15 AM - Re: starting the warm A65 (Phillips, Jack) 5. 06:32 AM - Re: starting the warm A65 (Dave and Connie) 6. 07:37 AM - starting the warm A65 (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 07:54 AM - Re: starting the warm A65 (Brian Kraut) 8. 08:43 AM - starting the warm A65 (Oscar Zuniga) 9. 08:44 AM - Re: starting the warm A65 (Phillips, Jack) 10. 08:50 AM - elevator control question (Tim Willis) 11. 01:07 PM - Re: starting the warm A65 (walt evans) 12. 03:43 PM - Andy's Airplanes (Tim Verthein) 13. 04:18 PM - Re: starting the warm A65 (Ben Charvet) 14. 04:34 PM - Re: starting the warm A65 (Gene & Tammy) 15. 04:42 PM - Re: starting the warm A65 (Gene & Tammy) 16. 05:27 PM - Re: Engine pre-heat (Gene & Tammy) 17. 06:42 PM - drips from the breather (Oscar Zuniga) 18. 06:55 PM - Re: drips from the breather (Ben Charvet) 19. 07:18 PM - Re: drips from the breather (Brian Kraut) 20. 08:01 PM - Re: starting the warm A65 (Don Emch) 21. 08:04 PM - Re: drips from the breather (Don Emch) 22. 09:02 PM - Re: Engine pre-heat (Dick Navratil) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:50 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed that ju st about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty starting the eng ine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I have a 10 min. flight fro m our field (which has no fuel) and Castroville, which means the engine is always fully warmed up when I stop for fuel. I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do when co ld, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime" it. Almost in variably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end up having to open the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags, and pull the prop through back wards to clear the intake of excess fuel. Then with fuel valve still shut off and throttle cracked, I can usually get the engine to start and I run a round to open the fuel valve, but sometimes I end up having to do this two or three times. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather when I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that...Oscar ZunigaSan Anton io, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:31 AM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 Oscar, I'm not sure what might help with your problem, but there should be a fix out there. My A-75 starts easiest when warm. No priming or anything. Just crack the throttle, and generally with one flip it will fire right up within 30 minutes of shutting down. It virtually never takes more than two flips getting it started when warm. I have dual impulse mags (Slick). Hope you get it figured out, and let us know the solution when you do. Check the Taylorcraft and Aeronca forums too, they have a LOT of guys using small Continentals. I'm sure there is an answer there. Steve Quoting Oscar Zuniga : > > I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed > that just about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty > starting the engine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I > have a 10 min. flight from our field (which has no fuel) and > Castroville, which means the engine is always fully warmed up when I > stop for fuel. > > I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do > when cold, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime" > it. Almost invariably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end > up having to open the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags, > and pull the prop through backwards to clear the intake of excess > fuel. Then with fuel valve still shut off and throttle cracked, I > can usually get the engine to start and I run around to open the > fuel valve, but sometimes I end up having to do this two or three > times. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? > > PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather > when I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that...Oscar > ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at > http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:53 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 From: "Phillips, Jack" Hi Oscar, Sounds like it's flooding pretty easily when warm. I don't have that problem - mine will usually start on the first balde when warm. One thing you could try when you are flying into Castroville for fuel, shut off the engine there by shutting off the fuel line. That way, it can't load up so easily when you start it. Of course, you'll need to turn the fuel on again before starting it, but that shouldn't be a problem. While my Piet starts easily when warm (and fairly easily when cold, using primer), the J-3 I owned years ago would flood easily when warm. I always had to get a really good pull on the prop (try to get two blades to go through). If it started - great. If not, it would almost always flood, and then I would have to do the same routine you described. It may depend on your mag timing. I've got the mags timed at 32 degrees BTDC on my A65 (manual says 30 for A65, 32 for A75) because I find I get about an extra 50 rpm on takeoff at that setting, but it means you've got to swing the prop harder to start it (I almost always have to start my plane myself - many people will offer to prop it, but they rarely spin it hard enough to start it). If you can stand the loss in power, backing the timing off to 28 degrees BTDC might make it a little easier to start. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed that just about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty starting the engine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I have a 10 min. flight from our field (which has no fuel) and Castroville, which means the engine is always fully warmed up when I stop for fuel. I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do when cold, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime" it. Almost invariably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end up having to open the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags, and pull the prop through backwards to clear the intake of excess fuel. Then with fuel valve still shut off and throttle cracked, I can usually get the engine to start and I run around to open the fuel valve, but sometimes I end up having to do this two or three times. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather when I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:27 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 From: "Phillips, Jack" Another good site for info is Harry Fenton's Engine page on the Fly Baby website. Harry worked for Slick Magnetos for years and knows more about small Continentals than anyone else I know. His website makes for great reading: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/engines.htm Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ruse Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 Oscar, I'm not sure what might help with your problem, but there should be a fix out there. My A-75 starts easiest when warm. No priming or anything. Just crack the throttle, and generally with one flip it will fire right up within 30 minutes of shutting down. It virtually never takes more than two flips getting it started when warm. I have dual impulse mags (Slick). Hope you get it figured out, and let us know the solution when you do. Check the Taylorcraft and Aeronca forums too, they have a LOT of guys using small Continentals. I'm sure there is an answer there. Steve Quoting Oscar Zuniga : > > I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed > that just about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty > starting the engine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I > have a 10 min. flight from our field (which has no fuel) and > Castroville, which means the engine is always fully warmed up when I > stop for fuel. > > I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do > when cold, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime" > it. Almost invariably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end > up having to open the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags, > and pull the prop through backwards to clear the intake of excess > fuel. Then with fuel valve still shut off and throttle cracked, I > can usually get the engine to start and I run around to open the > fuel valve, but sometimes I end up having to do this two or three > times. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? > > PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather > when I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that...Oscar > ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at > http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:39 AM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 I had the same problem with the Taylorcraft. What cured it for me was to slightly crack the thottle and start with the impulse mag only instead of both mags. That retarded the spark a bit and made for an easier start. Dave At 08:37 AM 11/19/2007, you wrote: >I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed that >just about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty starting the >engine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I have a 10 min. flight >from our field (which has no fuel) and Castroville, which means the engine >is always fully warmed up when I stop for fuel. > >I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do when >cold, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime" it. Almost >invariably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end up having to open >the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags, and pull the prop through >backwards to clear the intake of excess fuel. Then with fuel valve still >shut off and throttle cracked, I can usually get the engine to start and I >run around to open the fuel valve, but sometimes I end up having to do >this two or three times. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? > >PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather when I >landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that... > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:43 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 No impulse on either of my mags, so starting on one won't retard the timing . It sounds like the best thing for me to try is to shut down the engine b y shutting off the fuel and letting it run till it quits, then shutting off the ignition. And there is no idle cutoff on the Stromberg, of course. It's all fun and it's good exercise for me ;o) As far as pre-heating the p ilot, there is no need when you are hand-propping and the engine isn't star ting right away ;o)Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:23 AM PST US From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 So I take it that you are shutting the engine now by just cutting off the mags? I would definitely expect you to have flooding problems doing that. You really don't have an impulse coupling? I would suspect that you would have a hell of a time hand propping every time you start it unless you retarded the timing so far that you had no power. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:37 AM To: Pietenpol List Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 No impulse on either of my mags, so starting on one won't retard the timing. It sounds like the best thing for me to try is to shut down the engine by shutting off the fuel and letting it run till it quits, then shutting off the ignition. And there is no idle cutoff on the Stromberg, of course. It's all fun and it's good exercise for me ;o) As far as pre-heating the pilot, there is no need when you are hand-propping and the engine isn't starting right away ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:23 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 Brian wrote- >So I take it that you are shutting the engine now by just cutting off the >mags? I would definitely expect you to have flooding problems doing that. Yup; my bad. But I'll be going to the fuel shutoff routine from now on to see if that helps.>You really don't have an impulse coupling? Nope. And the engine starts right up when cold, using the standard drill. >I would suspect that you would have a hell of a time hand propping Nope. Coming out of the hangar it's mags cold, fuel on, throttle cracked, pull it through 6-8 blades, mags hot, starts on the next 1-2 pulls with the "slight upswing, then pull down" motion that Edwin and others have mention ed on this list. But warm starts are another matter. >unless you retarded the timing so far that you had no power. Oh, I have plenty of power alright. The A65 runs very strong. The timing on the mags was done shortly after I first got the airplane when we were ha ving difficulty starting it and found some problems with the harnesses. I had both mags gone through and timed and we reworked some of the ignition l eads. I had thought of replacing my left mag with one with impulse couplin g, and also thought of replacing the whole ignition system with a new dual Slick setup, but Corky and practicality talked me out of it with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. So I have a Bendix-Scintilla "lunch box" on the right and a Bendix S4N on the left, new harnesses on both, and new Autolite UREM-40E plugs all around. Really no ignition problems and no lack of power.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebs ite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 From: "Phillips, Jack" How else can you shut off an A65? None of them have an idle cutoff. Shutting off the mags is standard procedure. Shouldn't cause flooding problems, but these old engines are like old dogs - all have personalities and quirks. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:54 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 So I take it that you are shutting the engine now by just cutting off the mags? I would definitely expect you to have flooding problems doing that. You really don't have an impulse coupling? I would suspect that you would have a hell of a time hand propping every time you start it unless you retarded the timing so far that you had no power. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:37 AM To: Pietenpol List Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 No impulse on either of my mags, so starting on one won't retard the timing. It sounds like the best thing for me to try is to shut down the engine by shutting off the fuel and letting it run till it quits, then shutting off the ignition. And there is no idle cutoff on the Stromberg, of course. It's all fun and it's good exercise for me ;o) As far as pre-heating the pilot, there is no need when you are hand-propping and the engine isn't starting right away ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:59 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator control question I am tinkering with the elevator controls on my project, and need some help. I was surprised at how little play fore-and-aft I have with the stick as connected, but much more so by how little the elevator bellcrank moves. I am going to need to change my setup slightly, as Corky had pointed out, and now is the time to adjust it right for me. I think the stick movement is fine for me as it is, but I may need to change things to get some negative leverage (and thus achieve more movement at the elevator for each stick input). So I need to know how much elevator movement on the back and then configure to achieve that. Thus, here's my question: how much maximum movement in the elevator should there be? Please either tell me: -- an angle on the elevator; -- the amount of vertical movement at the trailing edge of the elevator; or -- the amount of fore-and-aft movement of the cable at the elevator horn (if horn to plans). Thanks, Tim in central TX ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:33 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 Oscar, I know the answer to your problem. Only cause I bounced it off my Mentor a few months ago. AGAIN I bring up this guy, but he is amazing. He said due to the basicness of this carb, and that it is 70 or 80 year old technology. >From shutting down with the Mags (like I do) allows the engine to rotate many times, it sucks in lots of fuel. If you start it right away , it's OK, but 10 minutes or so, forget it. Simply get in the habit of opening the throttle immidiately upon shutting off the mags. This breaks the manifold vacuum, and does not draw from the very rich idle fuel circuit, on the coast to stop. Just out of habit, when engine is stopped, and while your hand is still on the throttle,,,pull it back to idle. ( so you won't have a very exciting next start) :^) Works like a charm. Apparently all the old time A65 flyers know this and do this. walt evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed that just about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty starting the engine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I have a 10 min. flight from our field (which has no fuel) and Castroville, which means the engine is always fully warmed up when I stop for fuel. I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do when cold, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime" it. Almost invariably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end up having to open the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags, and pull the prop through backwards to clear the intake of excess fuel. Then with fuel valve still shut off and throttle cracked, I can usually get the engine to start and I run around to open the fuel valve, but sometimes I end up having to do this two or three times. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather when I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:05 PM PST US From: Tim Verthein Subject: Pietenpol-List: Andy's Airplanes I really hate to sound like a commercial, but I thought I'd share this for any of you with kids or grand kids. I ran into their display at Oshkosh, actually, and made a note to follow up. "Andy's Airplanes" is a cartoon sort of presentation for kids, naturally Andy flies. His adventures seek to educate kids about geography and more importantly about airplanes. The whole thing has just got off the ground in the last couple months and I was glad to see the first DVD is ready now. I have a grandson who is 4, and a huge airplane fan. He literally carries airplanes with him everywhere. He can hear a plane coming within earshot before anyone else around (probably youthful ears, but I like to think he's got some sort of specially tuned hearing, sort of like Radar on MASH). Anyway, I thought the presentation was really cute, and when I talked to the folks at Oshkosh they were really sincere about making this a really good thing for kids. I just thought I'd toss it out there in case anyone was looking for gifts for any kids who have an interest in flying. I have no connection to the company at all, except as a customer, and anything we can do to get more kids interested in aviation can only be a good thing. It's at andysairplanes.com Tim in Bovey Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:35 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 When I bought my Baby Ace with an A75 thats how I was taught to shut it down. I was told it would help keep the carbureter from dripping. (It still drips a little occasionally). I've never had a problem with hot starts, though. I just shove the throttle forward as I turn off the mags, holding full brakes and ready to pull the throttle just in case one of the P-lead wires has come loose and it doesn't shut down. Ben Charvet walt evans wrote: > Oscar, > I know the answer to your problem. Only cause I bounced it off my > Mentor a few months ago. > AGAIN I bring up this guy, but he is amazing. > He said due to the basicness of this carb, and that it is 70 or > 80 year old technology. > From shutting down with the Mags (like I do) allows the engine to > rotate many times, it sucks in lots of fuel. > If you start it right away , it's OK, but 10 minutes or so, forget it. > > Simply get in the habit of opening the throttle immidiately upon > shutting off the mags. This breaks the manifold vacuum, and does not > draw from the very rich idle fuel circuit, on the coast to stop. > Just out of habit, when engine is stopped, and while your hand is > still on the throttle,,,pull it back to idle. ( so you won't have a > very exciting next start) :^) > > Works like a charm. > > Apparently all the old time A65 flyers know this and do this. > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:42 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 I second that! Since I'm definately not a "motor head" I refer to Harry's site anytime I have a question. It's packed full of good info and he will answer all questions, just give him some time to get back to you. Oscar does have a good point for those of you that may get a tad cold while flying. Just stop and flip the prop for a while. Works every time. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillips, Jack" Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:14 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 > > > Another good site for info is Harry Fenton's Engine page on the Fly Baby > website. Harry worked for Slick Magnetos for years and knows more about > small Continentals than anyone else I know. His website makes for great > reading: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/engines.htm > > Jack Phillips > Raleigh, NC > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:07 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 Oscar, Any chance it's fuel coming from your carb due to flooding and not water from your breather? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather when I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 11/8/2007 9:29 AM ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:00 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat Dick, I would love to have that radial engine on my plane! Sure is a sweet sounding engine. Max, on this list, has been talking about buying one for his Piet and I sure hope he does so I can go by and fondle it once in a while. I can only repeat what I've read and been told by those that know engines but one of the things I believe in is never starting a cold aircraft engine in temps below 45 degrees without preheating. The oil just becomes too thick. What kind of temps were you showing while in flight? Do you have any way to control the engine oil temps? I find that dressing in layers works well for me (makes it a little harder to get in and out of the plane) and as long as I have my pant legs tucked into my boots and good gloves on I can remain comfortable in most temps. The gloves I like best are a pair of motorcycle gloves that extend up my wrist and my coat sleeves tuck inside. There is a lot of snow machine clothes that work very well also. I'm considering covering the front cockpit and that will stop a lot of the air coming in around the feet. I built my preheater tonight. A heat gun and a 4' piece of expandable 3" metal duct (it will expand up to 8' if I want more length) that I bought at Lowes. As a test I ran it on high and right away the outlet end of the duct started climbing past 250 degrees, then I turned it on low and it ran at a study 150 degrees temp. Really don't think I'll need to ever run it on high. I used the heat gun because I had it. Now all I have to do is wait for some cool weather (in the high 60's here today). There is a HUGH interest in your radial here on this list. Please keep us all up to date and some photos would be great. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat Gene I havent flown my Piety during winter in the past, but I'm going to try it this year. I was out yesterday late afternoon for a bit. 37 degrees on the ground when I left 35 coming back in. With the long undies and the rest of the warm clothing it wasnt bad. Tommorrow I'll be out again. I'm finding that radial engine is a bit hard starting when cold. I'll be trying the pre heating tips in this thread. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:06 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: drips from the breather >Any chance it's fuel coming from your carb due to flooding and not water f rom your breather? Absolutely none. Fuel drips onto the concrete evaporate almost instantly a nd these were definitely creating wet spots on the concrete. I put some on my finger and it was water. Of course, I also had prodigious amounts of " sweat" on the upper end of my carb and the intake runners close to it, so I know it was condensation, just not sure why it was coming out the crankcas e breather. Walt, Ben, and others- thanks a million for the engine shutdown/restart tip . I can't wait to give it a try!Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildra gs@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:58 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drips from the breather Oscar, I get condensation drips from my breather too... Ben in humid Florida scar Zuniga wrote: > >Any chance it's fuel coming from your carb due to flooding and not water > from your breather? > > Absolutely none. Fuel drips onto the concrete evaporate almost > instantly and these were definitely creating wet spots on the > concrete. I put some on my finger and it was water. Of course, I > also had prodigious amounts of "sweat" on the upper end of my carb and > the intake runners close to it, so I know it was condensation, just > not sure why it was coming out the crankcase breather. > > Walt, Ben, and others- thanks a million for the engine > shutdown/restart tip. I can't wait to give it a try! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:22 PM PST US From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: drips from the breather It is normal to get water vapor out of the breather. I don't know how common it is to get enough to cause drips, but it would certainly not surprise me. We have all seen water dripping out of car tailpipes in cold weather. Water is a byproduct of combustion. Most of what comes out your breather is combustion blowby that gets past the rings. One of the reasons that you want to be sure that your oil gets up to at least 212 degrees is to boil the water out of it. Keep in mind that is 212 at some point in the oil flow. It is not necessarilly that hot where your oil temp probe is. That is also the reason that for engines in short term storage the manufacturers recommend that you run them so often, not just for a few minutes, but until the oil temp gets to the operating range. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drips from the breather Oscar, I get condensation drips from my breather too... Ben in humid Florida scar Zuniga wrote: > >Any chance it's fuel coming from your carb due to flooding and not water > from your breather? > > Absolutely none. Fuel drips onto the concrete evaporate almost > instantly and these were definitely creating wet spots on the > concrete. I put some on my finger and it was water. Of course, I > also had prodigious amounts of "sweat" on the upper end of my carb and > the intake runners close to it, so I know it was condensation, just > not sure why it was coming out the crankcase breather. > > Walt, Ben, and others- thanks a million for the engine > shutdown/restart tip. I can't wait to give it a try! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: starting the warm A65 From: "Don Emch" Hi Oscar, Just a thought... I used to have two "lunchbox" Bendix mags on mine. They produce one heck of a spark and are nearly bullet proof. I really like them... when cold starting and when running. Once the coils in those things get warm they have a tendency to not throw quite as hot a spark. When running it's no big deal. When starting it seems to be a big deal. I almost always had the same issue. On a cold start it was textbook. Fire up every time on the same blade. When restarting it when it was warm, it might go after a few blades or it might be time for 'Continental Calisthenics', if you know what I mean. A couple of guys at a strip where I normally get fuel would always come out to see me, hang out and talk while I was fueling up then suddenly disappear when I was looking for a prop. Guess they already had their "aero" bics for the day. Anyway, my engine guy finally talked me into an impulse mag. I found an old Eisemann on ebay, bought it and he overhauled it for me. Now I have one Bendix SF4RN and one Eisemann with an impulse. I now look like I know what I'm doing ( some may question that though). Much better and I'll hang onto the other Bendix for a spare. Those Bendix's really are great mags, it's just when they are warm, those coils don't throw quite as hot a spark and then the timing isn't retarded to help you out either for starting. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147327#147327 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: drips from the breather From: "Don Emch" I get the drips too. Not what I like to see, but like Brian says, get it warm enough and it will burn off. BTW I always do the taste test. How else can you be sure what it is? Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147328#147328 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:34 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat Gene and Ryan and all An updater on the Rotec; It is like flying a hot rod. It is really lots of fun to fly. It is extremely responsive. I have 12 hours on it now. The biggest problem I have had so far has been radio interference. I think I've got it solved, hopefully. I am still learning the plane but it flies comfortably at 75-80 and it still responds well at 35-40 mph. Climb is best at 55 mph at 600fpm Engine temp at 75-80 deg runs 180 deg and now at 35-40 deg runs at 140 deg. I tried to do a power on stall a couple of weeks ago but I gave it full power and nosed up and it settled into a slight climb at 35 mph with the nose upabout 40 degrees and wouldnt break. I'll be trying that again in the future. I have been doing some low flying over the mowed farm fields, it's a blast to fly along at 10-20 ft agl now that I am getting more confident in the engine. I have a cover for the front cockpit, that helps alot. Layers are a must, thinsulate gloves and wool socks and waterproof hunting boots also, with leather coat and fleece lined leather helmet. I bought a vide camera and am working on a mount for some flying videos, my first couple of trys havent worked very well. The hard part here is looking at my other Piet, which I havent flown since August. The time is coming that Im going to have to put it up for sale. I cant fly 2 at the same time. More on this later Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:25 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat Dick, I would love to have that radial engine on my plane! Sure is a sweet sounding engine. Max, on this list, has been talking about buying one for his Piet and I sure hope he does so I can go by and fondle it once in a while. I can only repeat what I've read and been told by those that know engines but one of the things I believe in is never starting a cold aircraft engine in temps below 45 degrees without preheating. The oil just becomes too thick. What kind of temps were you showing while in flight? Do you have any way to control the engine oil temps? I find that dressing in layers works well for me (makes it a little harder to get in and out of the plane) and as long as I have my pant legs tucked into my boots and good gloves on I can remain comfortable in most temps. The gloves I like best are a pair of motorcycle gloves that extend up my wrist and my coat sleeves tuck inside. There is a lot of snow machine clothes that work very well also. I'm considering covering the front cockpit and that will stop a lot of the air coming in around the feet. I built my preheater tonight. A heat gun and a 4' piece of expandable 3" metal duct (it will expand up to 8' if I want more length) that I bought at Lowes. As a test I ran it on high and right away the outlet end of the duct started climbing past 250 degrees, then I turned it on low and it ran at a study 150 degrees temp. Really don't think I'll need to ever run it on high. I used the heat gun because I had it. Now all I have to do is wait for some cool weather (in the high 60's here today). There is a HUGH interest in your radial here on this list. Please keep us all up to date and some photos would be great. 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