Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:15 AM - [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:34 AM - Re: Radio (Phillips, Jack)
2. 04:38 AM - Re: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby (Phillips, Jack)
3. 05:13 AM - Re: Brodhead Dates (was Radio) (Bill Church)
4. 06:23 AM - excellent quotations (Oscar Zuniga)
5. 06:54 AM - flying to Brodhead is like having a baby (Oscar Zuniga)
6. 09:17 AM - Re: Radio (Phillips, Jack)
7. 01:45 PM - Re: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby (Phillips, Jack)
8. 01:45 PM - cushioned seats (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
9. 01:49 PM - Digital Scale (Ryan Michals)
10. 02:13 PM - Re: Digital Scale (Brian Kraut)
11. 02:16 PM - Re: Digital Scale (MICHAEL SILVIUS)
12. 02:22 PM - Re: Digital Scale (Glenn Thomas)
13. 02:41 PM - Re: Radio (Gene & Tammy)
14. 02:56 PM - Re: Digital Scale (Brian Kraut)
15. 03:12 PM - Re: Digital Scale (Arden Adamson)
16. 03:21 PM - Re: Digital Scale (Gordon Bowen)
17. 03:42 PM - Re: Digital Scale (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
18. 05:04 PM - final rigging (RBush96589@aol.com)
19. 05:21 PM - Re: Digital Scale (Ryan Michals)
20. 06:13 PM - Re: Digital Scale (Gordon Bowen)
21. 06:30 PM - Re: Digital Scale (Ryan Michals)
22. 07:32 PM - Re: Digital Scale?? (Ben Charvet)
23. 07:38 PM - Re: Digital Scale (Clif Dawson)
24. 09:17 PM - T88 Mixing Gun (Rcaprd@aol.com)
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| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means a couple of things. Its my 44th birthday for
one, but I'm trying to forget about that... But, it also means that its that
last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser!
If you been drooling over one of the really sweet free gifts that are available
this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now is the time to jump on one!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution, but just keep putting it off, then
now is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists! Rather than the guy that,
er, ah, forgot (or whatever)... :-)
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this
year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation
a float and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone will feel the same.
The List Contribution page is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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I haven't seen an exact date posted, but it is always the weekend before
that other Wisconsin Fly-in, which will be 7/28 - 8/3, so my guess is
Brodhead will be Friday, July 25 - Sunday, July 27. I'll probably plan
to fly to Jackson (or Cleveland) on Wednesday, and then make the flight
into Brodhead on Thursday.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio
Jack when is Brodhead this year? I have a commitment on the West Coast
for the last half of June and 1st half of July that I must complete. If
that won't interfere then I would love to follow you up. My Piet is
ready for the trip now!
Gene
N502R
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Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 2
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| Subject: | flying to Brodhead is like having a baby |
You're getting soft, Mikee. Maybe it's time to consider a seat cushion
on that hard plywood plank you have for a seat in your Pietenpol.
Jack Phillips
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:00 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
So does that mean you've forgotten the pain and are willing to fly there
again in 2008?
I haven't forgotten the pain of flying home in that wretchedly wicked
turbulence but....we had such a good time flying in loose formation from
Cleveland to Brodhead I might just consider doing it again. Hard to say
though as I'm really getting spoiled going up there with all my camping
gear in the comfort of an air conditioned car.
Mike C.
_________________________________________________
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or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
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Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 3
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| Subject: | Brodhead Dates (was Radio) |
>From the Brodhead Pietenpol Association website:
Mark your calendars for Brodhead 2008!
Thursday, July 24th - Sunday July 27th
Thursday is set-up day and Sunday is
pack-up and leave - but still lots of
time to visit!
Reminder - EAA Annual AirVenture in Oshkosh
begins the Monday after the Piet Gathering
in Brodhead.
Here's a link to the page
http://pietenpols.org/id5.html
I see on the home page that the newest issue of the newsletter has just
been published. If you're not a subscriber, you should be. Doc Mosher
obviously puts a lot of effort into putting out each of the four
interesting and informative issues per year (on schedule, too). It's
only $16 per year. Check out the website to see how to subscribe.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Phillips, Jack
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Radio
I haven't seen an exact date posted, but it is always the weekend before
that other Wisconsin Fly-in, which will be 7/28 - 8/3, so my guess is
Brodhead will be Friday, July 25 - Sunday, July 27. I'll probably plan
to fly to Jackson (or Cleveland) on Wednesday, and then make the flight
into Brodhead on Thursday.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio
Jack when is Brodhead this year? I have a commitment on the West Coast
for the last half of June and 1st half of July that I must complete. If
that won't interfere then I would love to follow you up. My Piet is
ready for the trip now!
Gene
N502R
Message 4
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| Subject: | excellent quotations |
Speaking of excellent quotations and since it's "open line Friday", I'll let you
read this recent exchange between some guys on the KRNet. Towards the end you'll
see a reference to mothers-in-law that contains a classic line.
====================
> You see, this is what I always liked when I was in Australia. Even the dogs there
drink beer!
>
> Cheers,
> David and Goliath
> N191PZ
> Fallon, NV
>
> From: "D Lively"
> Dave:
>
> Just remember they often refer to it as "Ale" or "Stout" and it comes in
> pints & many may like it warm.
>
> Don
>
> From: "Darren Crompton"
>
> Don, you are referring to Great Britain where warm ale may be the go, but
> here in Australia our beer has to be as cold as a mother-in-law's stare.
>
> A note of caution. When in Australia, never ever refer to us as "Poms"
> (people from England) or else you will be on the receiving end of some of my
> mother-in-law's "stink eye".
>
> --
> Darren Crompton
=============
do not archive
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | flying to Brodhead is like having a baby |
I sent this one earlier but it never showed up, so here it is again.
================
Let's see how flying to Brodhead is like having a baby.
The first trimester, everything is great. You feel fresh and rosy, a certa
in spring in your step, you look just like you did before and all your clot
hes fit like they always did. The cockpit is a perfect fit and everything
is just like you planned it. You are excited about the prospect of what li
es ahead. This is your first day on the big trip to Brodhead.
The second trimester, you start to feel and look different. You have some
lower back pain, you get tired earlier in the day, some of your clothes sta
rt to feel tight here and there, your underwear chafe and your goggles rub.
Your appetite is off, sleep is a bit restless, you have to pee more often
, and you get cranky sometimes. You worry about the airplane but everythin
g seems to be rocking along and now the thought of getting there is more im
portant than the flight. This is day two of the big trip to Brodhead.
The final trimester, you just want to be there and be done with it. Climbi
ng in and out of the cockpit is awkward and you grunt and groan every time
you have to do it. Your back is sore, your butt is sore, you can't seem to
get comfortable no matter how you wiggle around in your seat. You are sni
ppy with line-boys, don't want anybody to take pictures when you taxi to th
e pumps anymore. You have to pee all the time. None of your clothes fit,
everything is uncomfortable, and you're thinking maybe this whole thing was
a mistake. This is day three of the big trip to Brodhead and it seems lik
e it will never end.
Then you see the airfield ahead. Pre-landing checklist; sit up straight; s
et altimeter, check traffic, breathe... breathe... breathe. Focus, this is
the last push. Downwind, base, final... you're on the ground! Your baby
has arrived and you brought it here. A bit dirty what with oil mist streak
s and bugs here and there, candy wrappers and empty water bottles in the co
ckpit, headset and wires tangled around things, but you'll clean it up and
it will be just fine. You're finally there and people are gathering around
you and the airplane to see what you've got. And you've got the prettiest
baby in the world.
Your back is still sore, your butt is still sore, you REALLY have to pee...
but you made it to Brodhead! ;o)
(PS, I've never had a baby nor been to Brodhead, but I know people who have
!)Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http:/
/www.flysquirrel.net
Message 6
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Rick,
It will all depend on how long your runway is, and how heavy your
Pietenpol. Piet's are not renowned for short field performance. They
are a product of the midwest, where fields are large and flat, and trees
are small and scarce. In places like North Carolina and Colorado where
the land is hilly and the trees are numerous and tall, takeoff
performance can become a concern. My home field has a 2000' runway with
enough of a slope that all takeoffs are downhill, no matter which way
the wind is blowing, and with 100' tall trees at the end. A downwind
takeoff on a hot day becomes a botany study, and several times I've had
to navigate off the runway centerline a little to go through a slightly
lower gap between the trees. I have never even tried to carry a
passenger off that strip in my Pietenpol. I'll take it to Sanford (TTA)
with its 6,000' runway with wide open approaches for any rides
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio
Jack
I am building a Corvair engine for my Piet now and am hoping 90 - 100 HP
is enough. William Wynne has experimented with turbocharging the Corvair
with some success which I may pursue that if I can't get off the runway
on hot days.
Rick
On Nov 29, 2007 12:52 PM, Phillips, Jack
<Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com> wrote:
Yeah, I know.
However, in a Piet heavily loaded with camping gear and fuel, I found
myself facing a ridge that was 4400' high. I was at 4000' running at
full power at my best rate of climb and losing 500 fpm in a downdraft.
I never did make it over that ridge, but by looking at the sectional, I
saw where I could fly around it by going a few miles out of my way, so I
follwed the valley until it interesected with the valley on the other
side of the ridge and eventually got back on my course. GPS makes such
navigation so easy, compared to what it used to be.
Density altitude at that time was around 7,000' Are you flying a
Pietenpol at higher density altitude than that? If so, what does it
weigh and what kind of power do you have? Mine is admittedly heavy (745
lbs empty). On a hot day last summer I took up a 205 lb passenger (I
weigh 200) with full fuel (90lbs). We got a good solid 100 fpm climb.
OAT was 93 F and the field elevation was about 400'.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- Norsk - Portuguese
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 7
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| Subject: | flying to Brodhead is like having a baby |
One other similarity between childbirth and flying to Brodhead is
post-partum depression (nothing looks sadder than Brodhead on Sunday
afternoon). Yet another is in the preparation - building an airplane to
fly to Brodhead is a lot like making a baby:
It is often entered into without thought of the long-term costs
It frequently requires some gentle persuasion of the spouse
It changes your life forever
Making it is as much fun as living with it
Making one causes you to want to do it again
Helping someone else make theirs is as much fun as making your own, and
much cheaper
Jack Phillips
Having morning sickness while contemplating ordering the wing kit for my
RV-10
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:43 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
I sent this one earlier but it never showed up, so here it is again.
================
Let's see how flying to Brodhead is like having a baby.
The first trimester, everything is great. You feel fresh and rosy, a
certain spring in your step, you look just like you did before and all
your clothes fit like they always did. The cockpit is a perfect fit and
everything is just like you planned it. You are excited about the
prospect of what lies ahead. This is your first day on the big trip to
Brodhead.
The second trimester, you start to feel and look different. You have
some lower back pain, you get tired earlier in the day, some of your
clothes start to feel tight here and there, your underwear chafe and
your goggles rub. Your appetite is off, sleep is a bit restless, you
have to pee more often, and you get cranky sometimes. You worry about
the airplane but everything seems to be rocking along and now the
thought of getting there is more important than the flight. This is day
two of the big trip to Brodhead.
The final trimester, you just want to be there and be done with it.
Climbing in and out of the cockpit is awkward and you grunt and groan
every time you have to do it. Your back is sore, your butt is sore, you
can't seem to get comfortable no matter how you wiggle around in your
seat. You are snippy with line-boys, don't want anybody to take
pictures when you taxi to the pumps anymore. You have to pee all the
time. None of your clothes fit, everything is uncomfortable, and you're
thinking maybe this whole thing was a mistake. This is day three of the
big trip to Brodhead and it seems like it will never end.
Then you see the airfield ahead. Pre-landing checklist; sit up
straight; set altimeter, check traffic, breathe... breathe... breathe.
Focus, this is the last push. Downwind, base, final... you're on the
ground! Your baby has arrived and you brought it here. A bit dirty
what with oil mist streaks and bugs here and there, candy wrappers and
empty water bottles in the cockpit, headset and wires tangled around
things, but you'll clean it up and it will be just fine. You're finally
there and people are gathering around you and the airplane to see what
you've got. And you've got the prettiest baby in the world.
Your back is still sore, your butt is still sore, you REALLY have to
pee... but you made it to Brodhead! ;o)
(PS, I've never had a baby nor been to Brodhead, but I know people who
have!)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 8
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You hit the nail on the head Jack as for me getting soft but that is
also precisely the reason that I don't need any cushion under
my butt when going cross country in my Piet. I made the mistake of
raising my seat 2" above plans which was way too much.
Too much of me sticks out in the breeze for my liking but I had to have
better forward visibility. (dumb....dumb) Any cushion under
me puts me even further out in the propwash.
Message 9
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Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..?
Thanks'
Ryan
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 10
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I use a small one from Office Depot that I got for something like $20.00. I
don't remember what brand it is. Get one that does ounces and grams. The
small gram increments are best for mixing small batches. Also get one that
you can zero out the tare weight on after you put your mixing cup on it.
The one annoyance I have with mine is that it automatically shuts off after
about 20 seconds. That is a real problem when it shuts off half way through
adding one part. If the weight is changing it will not shut off so if the
weight is not changing while I am opening a can or something I just bump it
with my hand every 10 seconds or so to keep it active.
Harbor Freight sells a cheap digital also, but I have not tried that one.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ryan Michals
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:50 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..?
Thanks'
Ryan
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Digital Scale |
Ryan:
Go to your local Staples ofice supply store and pick up a postal scale.
I got the Pelouze brand model SP5 there and it is a good deal.
here is a link to it:
http://www.officeworld.com/Worlds-Biggest-Selection/PELSP5/07Q3/?gclid=
CMnahdbLhZACFSQHQQodTH2Jqw
I only paid 25$ for mine at Staples about 2 years ago.
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Michals
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..?
Thanks'
Ryan
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Digital Scale |
I bought one here...
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/
I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the
parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the
other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start
with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was
ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so
the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I
think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic
containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference
point.
I documented my discovery here...
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0
On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..?
>
> Thanks'
>
> Ryan
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
Message 13
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Sounds good. Count me in. I'll be riding my Gold Wing to the West
Coast, leaving here about the 10th of June and returning home about the
10th of July.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:32 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Radio
I haven't seen an exact date posted, but it is always the weekend
before that other Wisconsin Fly-in, which will be 7/28 - 8/3, so my
guess is Brodhead will be Friday, July 25 - Sunday, July 27. I'll
probably plan to fly to Jackson (or Cleveland) on Wednesday, and then
make the flight into Brodhead on Thursday.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Message 14
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I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory here.
They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle or
isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that has it.
Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the technical data
sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up and post it.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
I bought one here...
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/
I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of
the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of
the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start
with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was
ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so
the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I
think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic
containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference
point.
I documented my discovery here...
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0
On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..?
Thanks'
Ryan
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
Message 15
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Gentlemen:
If using T-88, the easiest way to measure it is to buy two large
schringes at Fleet & Farm used by farmers. They work perfect to measure
equal amounts as you squeeze the parts out because they have gradient
markings on the sides. Much easier and accurate than weighing it.
Cheap too.
Arden A.
Waupaca
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Glenn
Thomas
Sent: Fri 11/30/2007 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
I bought one here...
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/
I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of
the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume
of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to
start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When
I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where
different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I
was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using
identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight
edge behind them as a reference point.
I documented my discovery here...
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0
On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..?
Thanks'
Ryan
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com <http://www.flyingwood.com/>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Digital Scale |
It's a good rule of thumb on ratios of resin to curative, for most
commerically available epoxies used for laminations. The density diff
between the two makes the gram ratio 100 parts resin and about 88 parts
hardener, or 100:100 based on volume. Most epoxy systems you can buy
off the shelf are somewhat forgiving on the ratios, so 83-93 parts
hardener to 100 parts resin by weight will work out just fine.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Kraut
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory
here.
They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle or
isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that has
it. Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the
technical data sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up
and post it.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn
Thomas
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
I bought one here...
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/
I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One
of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the
volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right
amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal
volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the
volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the
precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision
using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or
straight edge behind them as a reference point.
I documented my discovery here...
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0
On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy
etc..?
Thanks'
Ryan
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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| Subject: | Re: Digital Scale |
I bought mine from Harbor tool for around 12 bucks on sale. It's small,
so you need to use those medicine cups you can get at hobby shops. They
now also have have a digital level for $50. About half the price of the
one I bought from ATS (aircraft tool. Leon S. in Ks.
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thanks for the input on my rigging question everyone. I am going to try to
get it together this weekend, weather permitting.Jack and Gene if everything
goes OK in the next couple of weekends,and I can get comfortable flying this
thing by the time you get ready to make the trip to Brodhead I would be
interested in making the trip with you. I live between Jackson and Lexington.
Robert Bush
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products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Digital Scale |
Thanks for the ideas. What is the largest amount (in grams or ounces) you have
weighed up at one time? Would a 200g (.457 oz) capacity be large enough?
There are a few reasons for weighing;
1.Consistency. I've noticed varying cure times. When it's still a little "tacky"
the next morning, It makes me worry a little, although it always fully hardens
up.
2. Accuracy. I've been using small plastic cups, it's tough to scrape every last
bit out of the individual cups.
3. Ease and efficiency. If you are right in the middle of gluing everything,
it's starting to set up and you run out and need that just a little more.
Gordon Bowen <gbowen@ptialaska.net> wrote:
It's a good rule of thumb on ratios of resin to curative, for most commerically
available epoxies used for laminations. The density diff between the
two makes the gram ratio 100 parts resin and about 88 parts hardener, or 100:100
based on volume. Most epoxy systems you can buy off the shelf are somewhat
forgiving on the ratios, so 83-93 parts hardener to 100 parts resin by weight
will work out just fine.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Kraut
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory here.
They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle or isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that has it. Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the technical data sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up and post it.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
I bought one here...
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/
I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts
has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other
part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88
instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by
equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't
really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty
good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block
of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point.
I documented my discovery here...
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0
On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote: Can anyone recommend
an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..?
Thanks'
Ryan
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Digital Scale |
Unless you're doing a glue-up with an epoxy with gel time in excess of
45 min., I'd keep my mixes less than total 200 grams. The best way to
see if it's gonna be too much is to: mix up about 100 grams total epoxy
and let it set up in the mixing cup. See how long it takes, should be
+30 min. start gelling up and about 2 hrs should be completely hard,
without exotherming so much it set your workshop on fire. I've mixup
500 grams at a time but had it spread out thin on the fiberglass within
30 min. There's a trade-off of gel times and when the epoxy is
"set-up". Epoxy systems don't reach almost full cure unless a) they've
set about 7 days at 77F, or b) 30 days at 60F or c) you can heat up the
laminate to about 150F for 1 hr. Longer gel time epoxy systems give
you a lot more work life and you can make bigger batches, but the "full
cure" time is extended.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Michals
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
Thanks for the ideas. What is the largest amount (in grams or ounces)
you have weighed up at one time? Would a 200g (.457 oz) capacity be
large enough?
There are a few reasons for weighing;
1.Consistency. I've noticed varying cure times. When it's still a
little "tacky" the next morning, It makes me worry a little, although it
always fully hardens up.
2. Accuracy. I've been using small plastic cups, it's tough to scrape
every last bit out of the individual cups.
3. Ease and efficiency. If you are right in the middle of gluing
everything, it's starting to set up and you run out and need that just a
little more.
Gordon Bowen <gbowen@ptialaska.net> wrote:
It's a good rule of thumb on ratios of resin to curative, for most
commerically available epoxies used for laminations. The density diff
between the two makes the gram ratio 100 parts resin and about 88 parts
hardener, or 100:100 based on volume. Most epoxy systems you can buy
off the shelf are somewhat forgiving on the ratios, so 83-93 parts
hardener to 100 parts resin by weight will work out just fine.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Kraut
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory
here.
They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle
or isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that
has it. Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the
technical data sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up
and post it.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn
Thomas
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
I bought one here...
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/
I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88.
One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the
volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right
amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal
volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the
volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the
precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision
using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or
straight edge behind them as a reference point.
I documented my discovery here...
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0
On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote:
Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy
etc..?
Thanks'
Ryan
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
">Try it now.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Digital Scale |
Ryan Michals <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote: Thanks for the ideas. What is the
largest amount (in grams or ounces) you have weighed up at one time? Would
a 200g (7.055 ounce) capacity be large enough?
There are a few reasons for weighing;
1.Consistency. I've noticed varying cure times. When it's still a little "tacky"
the next morning, It makes me worry a little, although it always fully hardens
up.
2. Accuracy. I've been using small plastic cups, it's tough to scrape every last
bit out of the individual cups.
3. Ease and efficiency. If you are right in the middle of gluing everything,
it's starting to set up and you run out and need that just a little more.
Gordon Bowen <gbowen@ptialaska.net> wrote:
It's a good rule of thumb on ratios of resin to curative, for most commerically
available epoxies used for laminations. The density diff between the
two makes the gram ratio 100 parts resin and about 88 parts hardener, or 100:100
based on volume. Most epoxy systems you can buy off the shelf are somewhat
forgiving on the ratios, so 83-93 parts hardener to 100 parts resin by weight
will work out just fine.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Kraut
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory here.
They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle or isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that has it. Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the technical data sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up and post it.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale
I bought one here...
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/
I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts
has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other
part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88
instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by
equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't
really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty
good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block
of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point.
I documented my discovery here...
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0
On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote: Can anyone recommend
an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..?
Thanks'
Ryan
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you ">Try it now.
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Digital Scale?? |
I never weighed any of the T-88 on my project. I used the little 1
ounce medicine cups you can buy in a pharmacy. The ones I used has
markings in tsp, cc, etc. Early in my rib making I learned exactly how
much glue it took. I'm a pharmacist, so measuring stuff by eye comes
pretty naturally, but I'd just add , say 5 ml of part A, and in the same
cup fill it to the 10 ml mark with part B for a total of 5 ml part B.
Then mix it in the same cup with a scrap of wood that I used to actually
apply the glue. Never had a problem with an improper cure. I don't
remember many times I needed more than 30 ml (1 ounce) of glue at a
time..probably when applying the plywood sides and bottom of the
fuselage, but these cups are only about 3cents each. So far I'm just
half way through my second sleeve (100) of cups.
*Keep it simple*, and measure careful. Measure looking at the cup
horizontally and pour the glue slowly, allowing it to flow out level as
you approach the mark you're looking for and you shouldn't have a problem.
Ben Charvet
Ryan Michals wrote:
> Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..?
>
> Thanks'
>
> Ryan
>
> *
> *
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Digital Scale |
I use these more than anything else.
I put a strip of masking tape up the side and
mark it at two identical volumes, say 1/4 oz and
1/2 oz. Then I fill to mark one with hardener and
then to mark two with resin and stir. No loss of
either from cup to cup transfer.
http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=1&cat=2,2070,33135,20009&
p 009
It seems to me that since they only tell you volume
measurements in the directions that there's a
reason for that. If the volume ratio is 1:1 they have
most likely gone to great lengths to make that
work and work well it does. By doing so they make it
possible for us to operate dead center on the KISS
scale. Why complicate things unneccessarily?
Clif
Message 24
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Here is a couple of pictures of how I've been using T88 Epoxy for the
assembly of my Wittman Tailwind W-10. It's a T88 gun with a mixing tube. I made
a
small spoon out of a piece of aluminum, and attached it to the end of the
mixing tube with a small hose clamp. I can dispense very small quantities, and
keep it fresh over a very long period of time - by just squeezing the trigger
every few minutes. This wing has about a Zillion little pieces that need to be
installed...a LOT more pieces than the Pietenpol wing. I get enough parts
ready for assembly that will take 3 to 4 hours. I cut and prepared the parts with
a very small nail to hold it in place while the adhesive cures. Then I apply
a small amount to both surfaces that are to be glued, and wipe the excess
off, and use it on the next part. This gun and tube method will be Very handy
when I get to the point of assembling the 3/32" plywood sheets to the top and
bottom of the wing...just apply the ready mixed epoxy like a calking gun, and
spread it out. The disadvantage is that the epoxy in the tube, and the tube
itself, will be wasted when the task is finished. It wouldn't be worth wasting
a
mixing tube for very small amounts of adhesive, but for small amounts, you
can simply dispense it out of the gun without the tube on it, and mix it
thoroughly by hand. I gladly pay for the mixing tube, and wasted epoxy for the
convince of this method, when a LOT of parts are ready to assemble.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
"The Pietenpol is Slow, but the Sky is Patient".
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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