Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - landing gear (airlion@bellsouth.net)
2. 05:49 AM - RDU again (Gene Rambo)
3. 06:03 AM - oil change (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 06:19 AM - Landing gear (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
5. 06:50 AM - Re: landing gear (hvandervoo@aol.com)
6. 08:08 AM - Re: Landing gear (Dick Navratil)
7. 02:44 PM - Re: Landing gear (Graham Hansen)
8. 03:03 PM - Re: Landing gear (Gordon Bowen)
9. 04:16 PM - Project update (Jack T. Textor)
10. 10:04 PM - Re: Landing gear (Ken Chambers)
Message 1
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Has anyone ever thought about using a spring gear on the pietenpol. Wittman tailwind,
Cessna 140, and the Zodiac 601 all use this gear to great success. The
original PIET had a model A engine and Bernie went to a Corvair Like I am doing.
I am not a purist so I am always thinking of a better way if there is one.
Gardiner Mason
Message 2
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I will be overnighting in RDU on Wednesday and Thursday this week again.
I do not remember who it was that was going to be in VA over Christmas,
but any chance of seeing a Piet this time??
Gene
Message 3
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> > What oil were you using and how did your oil screen look?
I'm using Aeroshell W100, SAE 50. For the oil screen, I took Mike Cuy's re
commendation of washing it in a little bit of gasoline and then running tha
t through a coffee filter. No metal that I could see.Oscar ZunigaSan Anton
io, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 4
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I'm not using spring gear, but have thought of wanting to try it if I
ever built a second Piet. The lighter Grove aluminum gear legs would be
the thing to use. Probably work best with with a steel tube fus., but
with some beefing in the gear box area, I think it would work on the
wood fus. also. I think you would have less hours of building time
invested with the spring gear,but after all the beefing I don't think
you would have much savings in weight. I built the J-3 type gear with
Hagar brakes, and Douglass alum. atv. wheels and it is relatively light
at 48 lbs. complete. This part is insane and I will never do it, but I
would love to build a Piet. in all aluminum. The fus. built like a BD-4.
Leon S. in Ks with nothing better to do but day dream because there is
another damn artic blast blowing threw again today.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear |
I did, briefly.
It would require significant strengthening of the Fuselage where the landing gear
bolts on, to compensate for all the load being concentrated in one smaller
place
The resulting redesign would not gain any benefits.
The split axle design is simple to make and immensely strong
Happy New year and many great landings for 2008.
Hans
Pietenpol NX 15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: airlion@bellsouth.net
Sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 7:09 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Has anyone ever thought about using a spring gear on the pietenpol. Wittman
tailwind, Cessna 140, and the Zodiac 601 all use this gear to great success. The
original PIET had a model A engine and Bernie went to a Corvair Like I am doing.
I am not a purist so I am always thinking of a better way if there is one.
Gardiner Mason
________________________________________________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
Hey Leon
I know winters get a bit long, but when you start thinking about skining a
Piet in aluminum its time to take a vacation or change brands of tequilla.
Or check your carbon monoxide detectors for a reason for such thinking.
Save that kind of talk for April 1.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 8:18 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear
>
> I'm not using spring gear, but have thought of wanting to try it if I
> ever built a second Piet. The lighter Grove aluminum gear legs would be
> the thing to use. Probably work best with with a steel tube fus., but
> with some beefing in the gear box area, I think it would work on the
> wood fus. also. I think you would have less hours of building time
> invested with the spring gear,but after all the beefing I don't think
> you would have much savings in weight. I built the J-3 type gear with
> Hagar brakes, and Douglass alum. atv. wheels and it is relatively light
> at 48 lbs. complete. This part is insane and I will never do it, but I
> would love to build a Piet. in all aluminum. The fus. built like a BD-4.
> Leon S. in Ks with nothing better to do but day dream because there is
> another damn artic blast blowing threw again today.
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
Leon Stefan said:
"This part is insane and I will never do it, but I would love to build a
Piet. in all aluminum."
My reaction is "Why not?"
In fact, I seriously considered doing so some 25 years ago, but had too much
on the go at the time to get any further than the idea stage. Nowadays, I'm
too darned old and no longer have a workplace large enough for such a
project.
However, I wasn't going to skin the a/c with sheet aluminum. Too heavy.
Fabric is lighter and would retain the authentic(?) external appearance. The
intention was to substitute aluminum alloy structural members for the wooden
parts of the original design. These would have
been standard extruded sections and formed angles, channels, etc. riveted or
bolted together according to standard aircraft practice.
At first I considered an all-aluminum fuselage with fabric covering, but had
settled on a welded steel tubing truss before the whole idea was shelved.
This creation would have been "all metal" rather than "all aluminum".
A spring steel landing gear was never considered because the highly
localized loads on the structure would have required much re-design--besides
altering the appearance of an airplane that was supposed to mimic the
Pietenpol.
The primary motivation for the exercise was to use a substitute material for
scarce (and expensive) aircraft quality spruce; the secondary goal was to
perhaps save some weight. I still regret that I never had the time to follow
it through.
Happy New Year!
Graham Hansen
(My Pietenpol, CF-AUN, is a standard wooden version)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
Grant,
Think the key reason for not building the Piete out of Al has to due with
metal fatigue. As you probably can feel, the fuselage flexes a heck of alot
every time you land. My Quasi-Piete is made out of 4130 and I can feel the
flex every landing, especially if I don't make a smooth landing and let the
tail down slowly. Secondly, one of the reasons the firewall is not AL has
to do with the burning nature of AL. Boeing and other big guys have AL
longerons and spars, but the structural I-beam design accounts for the flex
fatigue of the metal. I've broken enough Al lawn chairs in my day to know
I'd be really cautious about making Piete longerons out of AL tube.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear
> <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
>
> Leon Stefan said:
> "This part is insane and I will never do it, but I would love to build a
> Piet. in all aluminum."
>
> My reaction is "Why not?"
>
> In fact, I seriously considered doing so some 25 years ago, but had too
> much on the go at the time to get any further than the idea stage.
> Nowadays, I'm too darned old and no longer have a workplace large enough
> for such a project.
>
> However, I wasn't going to skin the a/c with sheet aluminum. Too heavy.
> Fabric is lighter and would retain the authentic(?) external appearance.
> The intention was to substitute aluminum alloy structural members for the
> wooden parts of the original design. These would have
> been standard extruded sections and formed angles, channels, etc. riveted
> or bolted together according to standard aircraft practice.
>
> At first I considered an all-aluminum fuselage with fabric covering, but
> had settled on a welded steel tubing truss before the whole idea was
> shelved. This creation would have been "all metal" rather than "all
> aluminum".
>
> A spring steel landing gear was never considered because the highly
> localized loads on the structure would have required much
> re-design--besides altering the appearance of an airplane that was
> supposed to mimic the Pietenpol.
>
> The primary motivation for the exercise was to use a substitute material
> for scarce (and expensive) aircraft quality spruce; the secondary goal was
> to perhaps save some weight. I still regret that I never had the time to
> follow it through.
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> Graham Hansen
>
> (My Pietenpol, CF-AUN, is a standard wooden version)
>
>
>
Message 9
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A great long weekend allowed me to just about complete my center section
and start assembling the left wing. It's fun to see something "big" for
a change. I posted some pictures on my site; they are at the end of the
Piet Project page. Still a long way to go!
Happy New Year to all!
Jack
www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/>
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
What size are your wheels, Leon? What kind of brakes are you using? Do you
have a photo available?
I've been thinking about trying to find ATF wheels that are tall and skinny
enough to look like the old aerowheels.
Happy New Year everyone
Ken in Austin, knocking out walls and pricing capstrips.
On Dec 31, 2007 8:18 AM, Leon Stefan <lshutks@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> I'm not using spring gear, but have thought of wanting to try it if I
> ever built a second Piet. The lighter Grove aluminum gear legs would be
> the thing to use. Probably work best with with a steel tube fus., but
> with some beefing in the gear box area, I think it would work on the
> wood fus. also. I think you would have less hours of building time
> invested with the spring gear,but after all the beefing I don't think
> you would have much savings in weight. I built the J-3 type gear with
> Hagar brakes, and Douglass alum. atv. wheels and it is relatively light
> at 48 lbs. complete. This part is insane and I will never do it, but I
> would love to build a Piet. in all aluminum. The fus. built like a BD-4.
> Leon S. in Ks with nothing better to do but day dream because there is
> another damn artic blast blowing threw again today.
>
>
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