Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:20 AM - Seat belts? (jimd)
2. 12:15 PM - Re: Seat belts? (Rick Holland)
3. 01:15 PM - Re: Seat belts? (AmsafetyC@aol.com)
4. 02:36 PM - Re: Seat belts? (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
5. 03:24 PM - Re: Seat belts? (Gene Rambo)
6. 05:18 PM - Re: Seat belts? (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
7. 05:44 PM - Re: Seat belts? (Scott Schreiber)
8. 06:44 PM - a nice day (Dick Navratil)
9. 07:16 PM - Re: Seat belts? (Brian Kraut)
10. 09:19 PM - Re: Seat belts? (James Dallas)
Message 1
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Hi,
Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car seat
belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the expiration
date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat belts for sprint
cars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that said that the belts
lose a great deal of strength in there first year, and enough that by the
second or third year that they were not strong enough to work adequately for
a crash.
Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first thought
was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost more but should
be stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching the net and ran
across some safety articles saying that most light plane wrecks (80-90%) are
survivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20g
forces are properly installed and worn.
My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the steel tube
frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots seat for
belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger seat has two
mount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders.
Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit of
beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.
What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard anything
about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk about? Personally
I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86 Porsche 944 with
22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes you think.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654
Message 2
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Never heard of seat belt degrading, so now we need to replace our seat belts
every two years along with our batteries?
Rick
On Jan 27, 2008 9:17 AM, jimd <jlducey@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car
> seat belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the
> expiration date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat
> belts for sprint cars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that
> said that the belts lose a great deal of strength in there first year, and
> enough that by the second or third year that they were not strong enough to
> work adequately for a crash.
>
> Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first
> thought was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost
> more but should be stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching
> the net and ran across some safety articles saying that most light plane
> wrecks (80-90%) are survivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the
> ability to handle around 20g forces are properly installed and worn.
>
> My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the
> steel tube frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots
> seat for belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger
> seat has two mount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders.
>
> Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a
> bit of beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.
>
> What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard
> anything about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk
> about? Personally I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86
> Porsche 944 with 22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes
> you think.
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 3
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Fyi I had come across that a few years back. I asked a buddy about it he's into
building drag race cars. He told me there in nothing wrong with the belts. Just
another way for the seatbelt companies to make more.
I doubt you can get on a comercial jet that just had all its passenger belts replaced
due to the 2 year age. My car is 10 years old and I have to change the
belts. I haven't even gotten a recall or service notice on that.
If I can snag 2 sets alike in color and style I am gonna install them in my Piet.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Never heard of seat belt degrading, so now we need to replace our seat belts every
two years along with our batteries?
Rick
On Jan 27, 2008 9:17 AM, jimd <jlducey@hotmail.com <mailto:jlducey@hotmail.com> > wrote:
Hi,
Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car seat
belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the expiration
date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat belts for sprint
cars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that said that the belts
lose a great deal of strength in there first year, and enough that by the
second or third year that they were not strong enough to work adequately for
a crash.
Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first thought
was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost more but should
be stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching the net and ran
across some safety articles saying that most light plane wrecks (80-90%) are
survivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20g
forces are properly installed and worn.
My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the steel tube
frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots seat for
belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger seat has two
mount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders.
Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit of
beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.
What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard anything
about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk about? Personally
I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86 Porsche 944 with
22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes you think.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Message 4
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Jim,
I walked into my local racing (dirt car) business and asked for some seat belt
harnesses. The had a wide array to choose from and I found a nice pair with
the shoulder and waist belt all sew together with just a buckle to connect them
all. It also came with the mounting hardware so I cut the end of the mounting
strap to proper length I needed and re-sewned it to the clasp. (a boot repair
shop does this)
The check fit and adjustablility....great! Looks professional and cool!....great!
only 30 bucks!...priceless!
My therory is this..seatbealts hold you in place and keep you from migrating
amounst the cockpit environment. Saving me from a crash, burn, or flip?.......between
me and the maker!
Ken H
jimd <jlducey@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car seat
belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the expiration
date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat belts for sprint
cars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that said that the belts
lose a great deal of strength in there first year, and enough that by the
second or third year that they were not strong enough to work adequately for
a crash.
Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first thought
was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost more but should
be stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching the net and ran
across some safety articles saying that most light plane wrecks (80-90%) are
survivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20g
forces are properly installed and worn.
My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the steel tube
frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots seat for
belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger seat has two
mount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders.
Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit of
beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.
What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard anything
about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk about? Personally
I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86 Porsche 944 with
22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes you think.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 5
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Yes you will get on an airliner that has had its belts changed!! Take a
look on EBAY at all of the aircraft seat belt sets for sale, these were
taken off of airliners. The 121 regs require the belts to be changed
periodically.
TSOd seatbelts have a strength requirement that can be looked up easily
online, something like 2500 lbs tensile strength. Most TSO tags have a
date on them, usually the date of manufacture but I suppose an
expiration date may be on some. The tag also usually has the strength
requirement on it.
For a homebuilt, like ours, we can do pretty much whatever we want, but
we should stay within the strength limits. Someone on here bought belts
and shortened them and had a show shop re-sew the ends. That is great,
but keep in mind that companies that make seat belts use a needle with a
rounded end. A sharp needle, I am told, tears the fibers of the belt
and weakens it. You should at least pull test it to the limit once you
have had it altered. Call Jack Hooker (great-grandson of General Hooker
and source of the term "Hooker", who makes Hooker harnesses for aircraft
and race cars) sometime, he will be happy to tell you anything you need
to know.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: AmsafetyC@aol.com<mailto:AmsafetyC@aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
AmsafetyC@aol.com<mailto:AmsafetyC@aol.com>
Fyi I had come across that a few years back. I asked a buddy about it
he's into building drag race cars. He told me there in nothing wrong
with the belts. Just another way for the seatbelt companies to make
more.
I doubt you can get on a comercial jet that just had all its passenger
belts replaced due to the 2 year age. My car is 10 years old and I have
to change the belts. I haven't even gotten a recall or service notice on
that.
If I can snag 2 sets alike in color and style I am gonna install them
in my Piet.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com<mailto:at7000ft@gmail.com>>
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:58:35
To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Never heard of seat belt degrading, so now we need to replace our seat
belts every two years along with our batteries?
Rick
On Jan 27, 2008 9:17 AM, jimd
<jlducey@hotmail.com<mailto:jlducey@hotmail.com>
<mailto:jlducey@hotmail.com<mailto:jlducey@hotmail.com>> > wrote:
<jlducey@hotmail.com<mailto:jlducey@hotmail.com>
<mailto:jlducey@hotmail.com<mailto:jlducey@hotmail.com>> >
Hi,
Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint
car seat belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller
what the expiration date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in
to why seat belts for sprint cars would have an expiration date. There
was a faq that said that the belts lose a great deal of strength in
there first year, and enough that by the second or third year that they
were not strong enough to work adequately for a crash.
Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway
first thought was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones,
which cost more but should be stronger. How strong should they be? Did
some searching the net and ran across some safety articles saying that
most light plane wrecks (80-90%) are survivable if proper seat
belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20g forces are
properly installed and worn.
My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to
the steel tube frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the
pilots seat for belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The
passenger seat has two mount points for belts, but nothing for the
shoulders.
Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite
a bit of beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat
belt/restraints.
What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard
anything about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks
talk about? Personally I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old
86 Porsche 944 with 22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones.
Makes you think.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654>
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654<http://forum
s.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654>>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 6
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Wonder if all this had any bearing on the death of Dale Earnhart?
Personally, I'm not sure how strong I would want the belts to be...Let's say the
human
body can withstand 20G's. Lets also say the belts are good to 22G's. Do you
take your chances bouncing out of the plane across a runway, or risk being
pulled apart by the belts? Just thinking out loud...
Boyce
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 7
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This got me thinking, I called a firefighter friend of mine who has pulled
allot of people from allot of wrecks. His comment was that the only
recurring failure he has seen over the years is the failure to wear them.
_Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimd" <jlducey@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
>
> Hi,
>
> Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car
> seat belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the
> expiration date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat
> belts for sprint cars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that
> said that the belts lose a great deal of strength in there first year, and
> enough that by the second or third year that they were not strong enough
> to work adequately for a crash.
>
> Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first
> thought was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost
> more but should be stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching
> the net and ran across some safety articles saying that most light plane
> wrecks (80-90%) are survivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the
> ability to handle around 20g forces are properly installed and worn.
>
> My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the
> steel tube frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the
> pilots seat for belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The
> passenger seat has two mount points for belts, but nothing for the
> shoulders.
>
> Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a
> bit of beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.
>
> What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard
> anything about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks
> talk about? Personally I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old
> 86 Porsche 944 with 22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones.
> Makes you think.
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654
>
>
>
Message 8
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Since things are a bit slow here, I'll tell you all about a nice day
over NW Wisc. 34 degrees at 1:00. I hadn't flown my A-65 Piet sivce
August. I did the pre flight and gave it 2 shots of prime, pulled the
prop thru 10 times, 1 more shot of prime, left the primer open, switch
on and she fired up on the first pull. I had taken the seat cushion out
to lower myself down a bit to get less wind in the face. After take off
I stayed in the pattern for a couple of circuits to make sure things
were running good and went out low level flying. One nice thing about
the cold here is it makes some long flat places for landing. Theres
nothing like flying over frozen lakes at 5-10 ft. Its good over farm
fields too in the summer but this is a flat surface with no fences or
furrows. I stayed out for about 1.5 hours and was not cold at all.
Just thought Id share
Dick N
Message 9
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I seem to remember seeing something somewhere about aircraft seat belts in
Europe having to replaced by a certian expiration date, but not in the U.S.
Don't remember where I saw that.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jimd
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Hi,
Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car
seat belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the
expiration date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat
belts for sprint cars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that
said that the belts lose a great deal of strength in there first year, and
enough that by the second or third year that they were not strong enough to
work adequately for a crash.
Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first
thought was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost
more but should be stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching
the net and ran across some safety articles saying that most light plane
wrecks (80-90%) are survivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the
ability to handle around 20g forces are properly installed and worn.
My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the
steel tube frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots
seat for belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger
seat has two mount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders.
Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit
of beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.
What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard
anything about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk
about? Personally I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86
Porsche 944 with 22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes
you think.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160654#160654
Message 10
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Jim, I used to own and drive sprinters and midgets. We always swapped
the belts every two years whether they looked good or not. Unlike a
normal car these are washed at the car wash after every race. They
also are constantly exposed to the elements during the summer. On most
sprint cars the belts have been used at least once during the season
from rough landings.....the wings aren't supposed to make the car fly,
so when they do its usually always a rough landing and the human body
will stretch the belt 3 inches. There is no way to tell what the
strength is after a couple years other than destructive testing so we
just play it safe and replace.
The other JimD
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