Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:31 AM - Re: Butt rib covering (gcardinal)
2. 05:19 AM - Purist Help Desk (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
3. 06:32 AM - Re: Oversize piet (jimd)
4. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: Oversize piet (Owen Davies)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: Any Piet projects in/around Denver? (Barry Davis)
6. 09:36 AM - Re: Oversize piet (Bill Church)
7. 10:57 AM - 1933 Fuselage, no grease required (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
8. 11:22 AM - Re: Oversize piet (jimd)
9. 12:10 PM - Re: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required (Bill Church)
10. 12:47 PM - Re: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required (Jim Markle)
11. 01:44 PM - Re: Plywood (jimd)
12. 02:27 PM - Re: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required (Brian Kraut)
13. 02:34 PM - Re: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required (jimboyer@hughes.net)
14. 04:22 PM - Re: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required (Ryan Mueller)
15. 04:54 PM - Re: Butt rib covering (Steve Eldredge)
16. 06:54 PM - Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22 (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM)
17. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Oversize piet (Owen Davies)
18. 07:28 PM - Sport Aviation Magazine (dwilson)
19. 07:36 PM - translating from Spanish (Oscar Zuniga)
20. 08:19 PM - Re: translating from Spanish (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM)
21. 09:10 PM - Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22 (Owen Davies)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Butt rib covering |
Scott,
Carry the fabric all the way across the rib and then cut openings as
needed for cables, etc...
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Butt rib covering
I am covering the wings right now and part of the stitts manual
doesn't seem to really apply to the Piet 3 piece wing. The pictures and
text refer to the butt rib as a mostly solid rib where ours are an open
lattice without much to anchor fabric to and allot of areas of fabric to
be cut away around spars and cable runs. Did those of you who have
covered your planes cut it off flush with the end of the 1/16 ply on top
of the rib or did you carry it all the way across the rib as in the
stitts manual? I have about a foot hanging over now so I can go either
way.
-Scott
Message 2
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| Subject: | Purist Help Desk |
Dan & Group,
There must be some kind of support group for original Pietenpol purist
sufferers, no ? After all there are support groups for just about
every malady these days.
I think one of the things that drew me to build a Pietenpol was to see
all the little innovations that people incorporated into the design over
the years away from the basic 'this looks pretty homely' design when I
visited Brodhead. Another thing that drew me BACK into the Pietnpol
world was the passing of the old guard who were a snooty, self-righteous
bunch who looked down on younger builders or those with fresh new
ideas. My then girlfriend in the early 90's used to say that some of
these Pietenpol guys acted as if they 'just stepped out of a Lear jet'.
Mike C.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Oversize piet |
Owen,
Thanks for the comments.
I would love to have a Bucker Jungmann as well, and was aware that the Tigre was
the engine in a number of them. With a Cub over my budget, there was no chance
of a Bucker.
It took a lot of searching, but I found someone with an electronic copy of the
Tigre manuals, and Oscar Zuniga said he or his cousin could translate them to
English. Sent him all but the biggest file, will probably have to snail mail a
CD to him, as its pretty big.
Not sure where you find the engines. Quite a few of the Bucker folks have multiple
ones with their projects, see adds on barnstormer for Buckers with Tigre engines,
and a couple spares, frequently. Bucker Prado sells parts and complete
engines, at high prices, like 24K for a complete parts Tigre (not necessarily
a ready to go engine.) On the biplane forum site there is a Bucker sub group
and they discuss the engines from time to time, and have said they can be had
for as little as a $1000. So like anything else thats old, you can find deals,
and ultimately they cost whatever you and seller agree to, plus shipping.
If someone offered me big bucks for my engine I would probably sell and go for
a 110hp Rotec Radial. The original Pietenpol Aerial biplane had a radial engine
and looked pretty cool, but my reasons would be to have a current engine with
a company still in business behind it. If the Tigre doesn't work out I will
go with an 0-290, or 0-200, as I think I will need at least a 100 hp with my
weight, the extra wing, and the hot summers we get here in the midwest.
I am including a couple of pics of biplane piets. Notice one has a 6cyl lycoming,
those are heavier than the Tigre.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161352#161352
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/apietenpol_756.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpols_green_129.jpg
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oversize piet |
jimd wrote:
> Bucker Prado sells parts and complete engines, at high prices, like 24K for a
complete parts Tigre (not necessarily a ready to go engine.)
For that kind of money, I'd use the LOM.
> On the biplane forum site there is a Bucker sub group and they discuss the engines
from time to time, and have said they can be had for as little as a $1000.
So like anything else thats old, you can find deals, and ultimately they cost
whatever you and seller agree to, plus shipping.
>
I don't know the biplane forum. Where can I find it?
> If someone offered me big bucks for my engine I would probably sell and go for
a 110hp Rotec Radial.
What a sweet package that would make! Though I'd probably find it
necessary to build Fairchild-style outrigger mains to go with it.
> If the Tigre doesn't work out I will go with an 0-290, or 0-200, as I think I
will need at least a 100 hp with my weight, the extra wing, and the hot summers
we get here in the midwest.
>
Sure. Actually, if I were looking at the O-200 I'd probably one of
William Wynne's Corvair conversions. A reliable 100hp, maybe a bit more
if you want it, and six small bangs instead of four larger ones. Smooth.
Also relatively cheap to maintain and rebuild. Not too much heavier than
the equivalent Continental.
Not that anyone needs to make the case for the Corvair among Piet
people. I need to remember who I'm talking to.
> I am including a couple of pics of biplane piets. Notice one has a 6cyl lycoming,
those are heavier than the Tigre.
Ouch!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Any Piet projects in/around Denver? |
Gotta check out Rick Holland's Piet down in Castle Rock (you'll figure
out why they call it Castle Rock when you get there) . I visited Rick a
couple of years ago and had a great time. Rick's home is in the middle
of some beautiful country. The view from the front porch is almost
breathtaking. I bet with all this cold weather, it really is
breathtaking.
Barry Davis
Big Piet Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Any Piet projects in/around Denver?
I have a 2 week trip to Denver coming up......
If there's anyone in the area, please contact me offlist and let's get
together!
Jim Markle
Pryor, OK
Message 6
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John,
What part of "NOT" did you not understand?
I specifically said NOT share the details. Sheesh.
Now I don't think I'm going to want to sit in a certain Mr. Markle's Piet when
he flies it up to Brodhead at some point in the future.
Hopefully you stayed out of the passenger seat, so at least hopping a ride won't
be a traumatic experience.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
It is a sad tale ...
Sorry to have to put you all through the tale the Dr said it would get easier each
time I tell it One step at a time he says I got 11 more to go
Wow I feel better now for sharing
Thanks
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet
John wrote:
I fit in the standard width naked and greased.
John,
Please do us all a favor andNOT share withus the details of how you know this to
be true.
Message 7
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| Subject: | 1933 Fuselage, no grease required |
Only grease I need is on my wheel bushings over the axle and in my
tach, carb heat, and throttle cable housings.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Oversize piet |
Owen,
Corvair would probably be the best choice, as I could be sure of what I had, and
could afford it.
Read that the Corvair's burn about four and a half gallons of fuel an hour, thats
half what the Tigre will. (And the Tigre needs a pint of oil an hour, due to
being inverted I think.) Wouldn't take many hours for that to make a big difference.
With mogas having alcohol in it now, and 100LL costing a lot, it could
cut the fuel cost in half or better. Over the course of a 1000 hrs that could
make a heck of a difference. Maybe my next project should be refitting with
a Corvair?
Anyone have a Venturay conversion flying in a Piet? They looked interesting, sell
complete engine for $6200 I think.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161406#161406
Message 9
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| Subject: | 1933 Fuselage, no grease required |
And from the photo, it appears that you at least have a shirt on.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required
Only grease I need is on my wheel bushings over the axle and in my
tach, carb heat, and throttle cable housings.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required |
Wow, what a neat picture! There's just nothing like a nice yellow Cub sitting
in a hangar... :-)
Ok, that really IS a nice picture of your Piet. I love seeing the prop in motion
like that.
They have a tractor identical to mine in that hangar...no huge surprise since Henry
made millions of those tractors.
Cool pic...
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>Sent: Jan 30, 2008 11:52 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required
>
>
> Only grease I need is on my wheel bushings over the axle and in my
>tach, carb heat, and throttle cable housings.
>
>
Message 11
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Will probably go plywood. Have to get some I guess. Need to watch weight where
I can.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161422#161422
Message 12
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| Subject: | 1933 Fuselage, no grease required |
Nice picture. Looks like it could have been taken 40 years ago.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required
Only grease I need is on my wheel bushings over the axle and in my
tach, carb heat, and throttle cable housings.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required |
Mike what a nice picture of your Pietenpol. Too bad that stinky old 195
was in the background.
Jim
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 1933 Fuselage, no grease required |
Here's a B/W version, which still has the 195 gleaming in the background.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2231023947&size=l
I'm using it for wallpaper for now. If you want I can easily take out the cone,
and if you REALLY want, I can take out the 195. It'll take a bit o' time, but
I'm confident I can do it.
Om a high note, we just received 500 ft of 1/4x1/2, some Finnish Birch and T-88!
Ryan
Mike what a nice picture of your Pietenpol. Too bad that stinky old 195
was in the background.
Jim
Do not archive
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Butt rib covering |
I used 2" strip of ply attached the ribs all the way around, but it wasn't
enough. After a few hours the sucker puckered. Both wings right at the sp
ars. I discovered that the pull of the fabric was enough to move the ribs
outward toward the tips at the spars. I fixed it by installing spar caps
=BC" high and 2" long on top and bottom of the spars and pulled things tigh
t again with a couple of C-clamps. It required removing the wings and lots
of figgiting to get it fixed.
At that point cutting it off at the edge of the ply was no problem. If I h
ad wrapped it, I would have had a heck of a time fixing the pucker.
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Butt rib covering
I am covering the wings right now and part of the stitts manual doesn't see
m to really apply to the Piet 3 piece wing. The pictures and text refer to
the butt rib as a mostly solid rib where ours are an open lattice without m
uch to anchor fabric to and allot of areas of fabric to be cut away around
spars and cable runs. Did those of you who have covered your planes cut it
off flush with the end of the 1/16 ply on top of the rib or did you carry i
t all the way across the rib as in the stitts manual? I have about a foot h
anging over now so I can go either way.
-Scott
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22 |
Somewhere on the net I saw where someone had built a hanger the same way Bernard
built his.
Do not archive
Steve Dortch
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
> Great point John, in all the previous Piet-Purist discussions (has
> to happen
> at least once a year) I don't recall anyone mentioning that to be
> trulyoriginal a Pietenpol must be built with the same tools (or
> lack thereof) as
> BP used. You could even go further and say that to be a 'real'
> Pietenpol you
> must build it with BP's original tools! (wherever they are).
>
> Rick
>
> On Jan 29, 2008 12:56 PM, <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > FYI, neither is mine, but its still a Piet, wide body and
> improved to
> > meet my needs. Guess what, here's a real surprise I even used
> epoxy rather
> > than the purist casein glue, that Bernie and all the other
> purist used in
> > their builds. All the purists out there building are using
> casein glue,
> > aren't they?
> >
> > Actually, if its not the exact same materials, constructed using
> the same
> > techniques and tools, hand saws etc exactly the way Bernie did
> it than by
> > the purist definition none can be called a Piet.
> >
> > However, following the innovative spirit of Bernie its creator
> and the
> > idea of it being experimental in nature, design and
> construction, well you
> > decide.
> >
> > Which is the pure for the construction and detailed pursuit of
> purity> duplicating the build to exacting the specifications and
> materials of
> > following the concept of the creation by its creator?
> >
> > Again one has to define the term and sense of the purest. I am
> following> the plans and making changes to suit my needs, to quote
> another builder" its
> > your airplane , build it the way you want it!
> >
> > Thanks Michael Cuy and as previously stated in person, I really
> enjoyed> the video! and looking forward to the day I can park my
> build next to all
> > the other quality built ships at Broadhead.
> >
> > Will the real Pietenpol Aircamper please stand up, till then
> keep on
> > gluing!
> >
> > John
> >
> > In a message dated 1/29/2008 2:17:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > jthursby@tampabay.rr.com writes:
> >
> <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>>
> > Puracrite. Like a hipocrite. As in mine's not really a purist's
> > Pietenpol,
> > but your's better be or call it something else?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > AmsafetyC@aol.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:27 AM
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
> >
> >
> >
> > Can you define the sense of the term purist?
> >
> > John
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HelsperSew@aol.com
> >
> > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:46:02
> > To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22
> >
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > He can't. Ask any purist.
> >
> > Dan Helsper
> > Poplar Grove, e the es y --> - MATRONICS WEB
> FORUMS nbsp;
> > - List Contribution Web Site ;
> > ========================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in
> shape<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>in the new year.
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> ObjectAge Ltd.
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Oversize piet |
jimd wrote:
> Maybe my next project should be refitting with a Corvair?
>
Sounds reasonable to me. I'm likely to use it in the Piet, and then in a
Wittman Buttercup. Third project, assuming I live that long, will
probably be a Baby Lakes. I'd use the Corvair in that as well if I
thought the crank would stand up to aerobatic forces.
Owen
Message 18
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| Subject: | Sport Aviation Magazine |
Wow! Have you seen who is on the front cover of Sport Aviation ? Way to go Richard.
That's a great picture!
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161489#161489
Message 19
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| Subject: | translating from Spanish |
Jim wrote-
>I found someone with an electronic copy of the Tigre manuals, and
>Oscar Zuniga said he or his cousin could translate them to English.
Yes, and I started with the magneto manual (probably the one that interests Jim
the least!) and it isn't too difficult. It's a labor of love as well as a way
to keep Dr. Alzheimer at bay. They say that keeping one's mind challenged and
engaged helps stave off "senility". My Dad, all but one of my uncles and aunts,
and various other of my family members have all slipped into Alzheimer's
clutches. I can't keep him away forever, but it sure is fun keeping my mind
and body engaged in fun stuff like airplanes, engines, and trying to fly! Jim,
if you have the patience to wait for me to translate the documents, I'm sure
having fun keeping Alzheimer outside my hangar doing it.
And like they say about losing your memory, you meet new people every day... even
those you've known all your life ;o)
Back to inline inverted engines, I have a friend up in the Portland, Oregon area
with a Bucker Jungmann but his has a pancake engine. The inverted inlines are
certainly more interesting, but -dang- can they be expensive to find, operate,
and repair.
Oscar Zuniga
Owner & pilot of traditional, pure-bred Pietenpol Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: translating from Spanish |
Oscar, It was great to meet you this last weekend. I really hope that my moving
to San Geronimo works out.
In my translating from/to Italian texts I use one of the translator programs (altavista
has bablefish.) you can put text in and it will give you a very rough
translation. The I use that and polish the language. It is faster for me. Having
said that it can sure come up with some funny translations.
Blue Skies,
Steve
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: translating from Spanish
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Jim wrote-
>
> >I found someone with an electronic copy of the Tigre manuals, and
> >Oscar Zuniga said he or his cousin could translate them to English.
>
> Yes, and I started with the magneto manual (probably the one that
> interests Jim the least!) and it isn't too difficult. It's a
> labor of love as well as a way to keep Dr. Alzheimer at bay. They
> say that keeping one's mind challenged and engaged helps stave off
> "senility". My Dad, all but one of my uncles and aunts, and
> various other of my family members have all slipped into
> Alzheimer's clutches. I can't keep him away forever, but it sure
> is fun keeping my mind and body engaged in fun stuff like
> airplanes, engines, and trying to fly! Jim, if you have the
> patience to wait for me to translate the documents, I'm sure
> having fun keeping Alzheimer outside my hangar doing it.
>
> And like they say about losing your memory, you meet new people
> every day... even those you've known all your life ;o)
>
> Back to inline inverted engines, I have a friend up in the
> Portland, Oregon area with a Bucker Jungmann but his has a pancake
> engine. The inverted inlines are certainly more interesting, but -
> dang- can they be expensive to find, operate, and repair.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Owner & pilot of traditional, pure-bred Pietenpol Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Oversize piet or Fairchild 22 |
Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM wrote:
> Somewhere on the net I saw where someone had built a hanger the same way Bernard
built his.
That would be Joe Koehler, in one of those towns north of Keene, NH.
Alstead, I think. He wrote an article about it in Kitplanes in the early
to mid 1990s. It was his second Piet, the first one being a C-85-powered
Aircamper that performed very nicely. His rib jig is in my garage,
waiting for me to get my empenage in gear.
Owen
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