Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:16 AM - Re: Possible engine alternative (jimd)
2. 05:07 AM - Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport Aviation Cover ! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
3. 05:19 AM - 2 minute video about Oshkosh (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
4. 05:23 AM - Re: Possible engine alternative (Ryan Mueller)
5. 05:31 AM - Re: Sport Aviation Magazine (Skip Gadd)
6. 06:15 AM - Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative (Owen Davies)
7. 07:16 AM - Re: Name for Bigger Piets (Ron Franck)
8. 07:36 AM - Re: Plywood (Bill Church)
9. 09:42 AM - Re: Better name for "big" piet (Jim Courtney)
10. 09:56 AM - Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection (Michael Fisher)
11. 10:19 AM - Re: Possible engine alternative (Patrick Panzera)
12. 11:11 AM - Re: Better name for "big" piet (Jeff Boatright)
13. 01:11 PM - Re: Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection (Jeff Boatright)
14. 01:55 PM - Alternate engines (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
15. 02:21 PM - Re: Alternate engines ()
16. 02:33 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Max Hegler)
17. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Name for Bigger Piets (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
18. 02:48 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Brian Kraut)
19. 02:55 PM - Re: Alternate engines (BFD)
20. 03:31 PM - Possible engine alternative (Matt Naiva)
21. 03:53 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Ryan Mueller)
22. 04:34 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
23. 04:45 PM - Re: Ribs for sale (Richard)
24. 05:04 PM - Re: Alternate engines (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
25. 05:13 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Office 2004 Test Drive User)
26. 06:43 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
27. 06:46 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Owen Davies)
28. 07:02 PM - Re: Possible engine alternative (Owen Davies)
29. 07:43 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Office 2004 Test Drive User)
30. 11:03 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
31. 11:04 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Possible engine alternative |
owen,
The cheapest nice plane your going to get in the air is an unfinished project.
Something like the one in Boulder thats been on Barnstormers for quite a while.
Think he wanted $6200, it was Gary Ennerking's plane, look at westcoastpiet
or Barnstormers to see pictures. That plane has a corvair engine, workmanship
looks good, and compared to building from scratch you couldn't touch the price.
Just an example, ... but I looked around a lot, and was very close to buying the
one I mentioned, then my biplane project came along and I bought it instead,
spent a lot transporting it, spent money on a pod for storage, a shed to hold
all the stuff kicked out of my garage.. etc. So the for sale price is not even
the price it will be when you actually have it, but even so, I don't think you
can find less expensive than the right uncompleted project.. and piets are
pretty reasonable for the most part. For a one holer the smith mini's seem to
go cheap as projects.. but I could barely fit in one when I was 10 yrs old, by
11 they were too small.
Anyway, thats my thought on it.
By the way I am snowbound in a hotel, trying to get from Seattle to my fabric covering
class, all the passes are closed.. its just part of the adventure.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161784#161784
Message 2
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| Subject: | Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport Aviation Cover |
!
What a great shot in the arm for the Pietenpol world and potential
builders out there reading the latest issue of Sport Aviation, Dick.
That was a fine article with excellent photos of you flying your radial
powered Pietenpol over some gorgeous fall colors up north.
You've done us all very proud !
Mike C.
PS-- you even shaved for that photo !
Message 3
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| Subject: | 2 minute video about Oshkosh |
Dick N. is shown in this nice 2 minute overview of what Oshkosh is all
about. Short clip but nice of him running his engine for
the crowds during the show.
Mike C.
http://www.eaa.org/video/airventure.html?videoId=1389983003
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Possible engine alternative |
One of the KR builders out there has stated put he put together a standard WW based
Corvair conversion in 2003/2004 for approximately $2500. I imagine he did
most of the work himself, which helps keep the cost down.
We plan on ours coming in at, worst case, just under/around $5000. That's with
a starter and front mount alternator, buying a few other components instead of
making our own (deep sump oil pan, intake system), and paying to have some work
done (heads). If we went with a hand-prop blower fan conversion our cost would
drop roughly another $1500 at least.
I would think that the hand-prop blower fan Corvair conversion would yield an engine
that is reliable for the least amount of money. You lose a bit of power
by retaining the blower, but it lets you use the stock alternator, which keeps
cost down. The other upside is that it is a proven combination, with plenty of
reliable information on the conversion and installation process. I would think
this would save you time and money by reducing the variables that you have
to deal with and preventing you from having to figure it all out yourself on an
as yet untested engine.
Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net> wrote:> The crankshaft durability is unknown
in this application, whereas the
> Model A crankshaft has proven to hold up.
At this point, I am just doing a thought experiment, trying to figure
out how cheaply one could get a two-place plane in the air these days.
The Piet is the obvious place to begin, but the key is still to get the
cost of the powerplant as low as possible. I'm trying to find something
cheaper than an A.
Thanks for the info.
Owen
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation Magazine |
Dick,
Way to go!!
The cover and article came out REAL good. Great for the Piet world and the
Sun N Fun wood shop too.
Skip
> Dan
> My copy hasnt arrived yet. I'm anxiously wating.
> Thanks
> Dick N.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Possible engine alternative |
jimd wrote:
> The cheapest nice plane your going to get in the air is an unfinished project.
>
Agreed unreservedly. A friend in Maine recently missed a nearly-finished
Kitfox with FWF for $2500. And perhaps ten years ago, I missed a
ready-to-cover Baby Lakes, lacking only engine and instruments, for
$800! The moment I heard about it, I ran across the field, only to find
someone backing up a trailer for it--this after it had sat around the
"fly market" for five hours, virtually ignored. I still cry every time I
think about it. (Going to get a tissue now.) And I still want a Baby Lakes.
> By the way I am snowbound in a hotel, trying to get from Seattle to my fabric
covering class, all the passes are closed.. its just part of the adventure.
Snow. That's that white stuff, isn't it? I think we had that in New
Hampshire. (In fact, it was the biggest single reason we moved to
Florida! I hate the cold!)
And Ryan Mueller wrote:
> One of the KR builders out there has stated put he put together a
> standard WW based Corvair conversion in 2003/2004 for approximately
> $2500. I imagine he did most of the work himself, which helps keep the
> cost down.
It's hard to beat that price, of course, but that is why I am looking
for something else. I almost surely will use the Wynne Corvair, much as
I love the sound of a Ford, but if something even cheaper appears we
could just about get a Piet in the air for the cost of most engines.
That could open flying up to people for whom even a Corvair conversion
would be painful to buy in a single lump, and this strikes me as being a
very worthwhile goal.
Wouldn't help me much, alas. Here in Florida's so-called Treasure Coast,
they want a whole lot of any treasure you might have just to rent a
T-hangar. Not sure what tie-downs go for, as I hate the idea of leaving
a plane out in this sun.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Owen
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Name for Bigger Piets |
How about "Rosie O'Donnell Piet"?
Message 8
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I'm jealous.
Back in October, when I enquired at Boulter, they said there was no
problem to cut down the sheets, and ship across the border into Canada.
They just needed an address to calculate the shipping cost. Well, the
shipping was going to be $150. So,even if the wood was free, it would
still be too expensive.
I hate UPS.
BC
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Better name for "big" piet |
Piet-Ola.....You know, like Shin-OLa!
Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote: .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage
{ FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } 747 Piet?
380 Piet?
http://www.gillesvidal.com/blogpano/cockpit1.htm
Clif :-)
I will suggest a few maybe somebody else has a term that would be better than
OVERSIZE.
How about
- Piet Plus
- Piet plus 2
- Piet plus 3 etc etc
- Supersize Piet
- Jumbo Piet
Anybody else have a suggestion?
Steve in Maine
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection |
Hi Friends,
Thanks for recommending some interesting web sites. There is no shortage
of ideas out there. For the 1.9L Ford Escort direct drive, I will be
using a homebrew, constant flow injection system with no electronics. The core
idea came from the book "Jungle Pilot" by Nate Saint. Three power settings
will do the job --- takeoff, cruise, and approach. A blip-switch on the stick
will enable zero thrust operations. A light wooden propeller on a high compression
engine will quit turning if the pilot slows it too much. Mustn't let that
happen.
A little open cockpit parasol monoplane (Pietenpol) peels off into
a steep slip to clear the tall spruce trees guarding a river gravel bar where
the king salmon run. Brppp, brppp, brppp sounds are trumpeting from the short
Allison style stacks. How cool is that? Not much vertical surface aft of the
aerodynamic center, large control surfaces, ignition interrupt to zero thrust
-- the Piet can descend fast enough to get in plenty of trouble...don't let
it bite you.
Happy landings,
Mike Fisher
Talkeetna, Alaska
Where the Temp. registers minus 28 degrees F.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Possible engine alternative |
http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/Engine_cost.html
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Possible engine alternative
One of the KR builders out there has stated put he put together a standard
WW based Corvair conversion in 2003/2004 for approximately $2500. I imagine
he did most of the work himself, which helps keep the cost down.
We plan on ours coming in at, worst case, just under/around $5000. That's
with a starter and front mount alternator, buying a few other components
instead of making our own (deep sump oil pan, intake system), and paying to
have some work done (heads). If we went with a hand-prop blower fan
conversion our cost would drop roughly another $1500 at least.
I would think that the hand-prop blower fan Corvair conversion would yield
an engine that is reliable for the least amount of money. You lose a bit of
power by retaining the blower, but it lets you use the stock alternator,
which keeps cost down. The other upside is that it is a proven combination,
with plenty of reliable information on the conversion and installation
process. I would think
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Better name for "big" piet |
What to call a Piet with more room in the cockpit?
How about...
Comfortable
>:-}
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection |
Got any more details on that injection system? Sounds intriguing.
>
>
>Hi Friends,
> Thanks for recommending some interesting web sites.
>There is no shortage of ideas out there. For the 1.9L Ford Escort
>direct drive, I will be using a homebrew, constant flow injection
>system with no electronics. The core idea came from the book
>"Jungle Pilot" by Nate Saint. Three power settings will do the job
>--- takeoff, cruise, and approach. A blip-switch on the stick will
>enable zero thrust operations.
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 14
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| Subject: | Alternate engines |
I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot
of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that
look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who
have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate
engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this
info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
Just FYI; there isn't any legal liability in writing about "This is what I did"
and This is what happened." There is no implied inducement to try the same things.
Most useful information that is kept out of the pulic eye, such as the many non-standard
engine conversions, is kept out because the holder of it doesn't realize
that other people would be interested.
Mike Hardaway
---- Leon Stefan <lshutks@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot
> of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
> it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
> cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
> got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
> want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that
> look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who
> have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate
> engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
> answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
> self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this
> info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement...
http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot
> of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
> it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
> cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
> got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
> want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that
> look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who
> have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate
> engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
> answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
> self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this
> info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Name for Bigger Piets |
Nope...no way! Can't get the side to billow out that far!
How about "Rosie O'Donnell Piet"?
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Alternate engines |
My Sky Scout has a 2.2 liter Chrysler. It retains pretty much the look
of the Model A or T engine. It was flown, but a previous owner robbed
the wings and tail for a 2 place Piet project and I have not run the
engine yet so I can't comment on anything other than the looks.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
---
---- Leon Stefan <lshutks@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a
lot
> of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
> it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
> cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
> got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
> want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get
that
> look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys
who
> have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an
alternate
> engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
> answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
> self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for
this
> info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
Leon. I have gn1 plans and plan on using a marine version
of the iron duke which is 181 cu in. with an industrial cam grind.
They are used in the mercruiser inboard marine industry. That should
be close to the same type of abuse as flying. Maybe at prop speed should
have
70-80 hp.Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Possible engine alternative |
Owen,
A few issues back in inaugural or second issue of the Doc and Dee
Mosher edited Broadhead Pietenpols Newsletter, I believe there was a picture
of a Pietenpol with a 68 2.5l version of this engine turning a prop
supported on a stub shaft in a bell housing.
Bob's engine of note continues to remain available and will be because they
are the core of a fleet of forklift truck engines and other OEM applications
which make it hard to obsolete.
Unfortunately GM recently dropped the carb 3.0 model but the are still
available for about $1795 plus freight. Contact me offline if you are
interested in more details about the engine or how to get one. If you need
support I would suggest you build a corvair.
Other Options to consider...
Careful inspection of a 60degree V6 Chevy points to a long block with
aluminium heads at the same weight as th eI4 3.0l industrial mill. One of
the 20 million Ford Vulcans produced is worth a look a long block weigh in
at about 260 before water pump coolant and radiator and can be had as a
rebuildable core for $1-200. 3.0l All CAST IRON. Rugged.
The Aircooled Corvair has many advantages not to mention a track record and
support group. As Bob always likes to point out You Are the Mechanic in
Charge. Serious business.
This 3.0l industrial water pumper in the link below landed on the Curtis
Racer Build by the hand of Julius Junge. The plane needed the weight as it
originally had an OX5
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steamlaunch@softhome.net.08.21.2004/
http://www.gm.com/explore/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/industrial/industrial_engines.jsp
By the way the original context of Bob's industrial plant recomendation was
in a tomb titled "flying on the cheap" where he detailed the potential of
the Piet to be built very cheaply using industrial leftovers. A great piece
to search for on his Blog.
The Pietenpol Aircamper is a lovable little beast than can carry a fair
amount of weight on the nose. This probably explains why it has had more
auto engines than any other single design.
Don't forget the contributions of Larry Harrison of Poplar Piet flying 400+
hours on a 2.5l Iron Duke from a Chevy S-10 followed by many great hours of
aviating behind a 2.2l Mopar. Both in his words compare well to th efling
capability of a C85 Pietenpol. The Pietenpol has no shortage of great engine
options, some more pure than the rest but all are viable with enough
attention to detail. Every alternative engine landing on the nose of an
Aircamper is true to the inventive Spirit and legacy of Bernard Pietenpol.
Regards,
Matt
Time: 02:16:42 PM PST US
From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Possible engine alternative
Bob Hoover (the other Bob Hoover, at
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/) mentioned the following in his
entry for 11/16/06:
"This may come as a surprise but there are modern industrial engines
that weigh less than the Model A and produce more torque at an even
lower rpm. GM makes a nice one. $1600 brand new in the crate from the
factory. It cranks out an honest 65 hp @ 1800 rpm, giving you more than
twice the thrust of the Model A. The engine, which has been in
production since about 1965, is also available used and overhauled, in
both long and short block versions. Just be sure you get it with the
Industrial Engine cam instead of the Marine Engine cam. The marine
version runs at a much higher rpm. Ford makes a similar engine although
I'm not familiar with its specs."
I've looked for it and can't find it, so it may have been discontinued.
I'll drop him a note one of these days and ask where to find that
engine. But first I'm wondering whether anyone has ever seen such an
animal on the nose of a Piet. Anyone?
I wonder what it would cost from a good reman shop?
Thanks.
Owen
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
Max,
It would be very interesting to see one used in a Piet. Unfortunately that block
is going to run you about $10,000....
Gulp!
Ryan
Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement...
http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan"
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot
> of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
> it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
> cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
> got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
> want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that
> look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who
> have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate
> engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
> answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
> self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this
> info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
Max,
I have been looking at the Donovan engine for quite some time. But, the
price!
Ron
In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
MaxHegler@msn.com writes:
Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement...
http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html
Max
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Ribs for sale |
Interested party in AZ. Do not know the name of the builder and assume T88 and
quality construction. Please contact me at your convenience. Photos?
Thanks, Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161971#161971
Message 24
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| Subject: | Alternate engines |
Brian,
Send some photosto see.
Ken H
Brian Kraut <brian.kraut@engalt.com> wrote:
My Sky Scout has a 2.2 liter Chrysler. It retains pretty much the look of the
Model A or T engine. It was flown, but a previous owner robbed the wings and
tail for a 2 place Piet project and I have not run the engine yet so I can't comment
on anything other than the looks.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
---
---- Leon Stefan wrote:
>
> I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines
> comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a
> Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an
> S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot
> of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried
> it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's
> cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly
> got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours
> successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of
> Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but
> want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that
> look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who
> have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate
> engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the
> answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my
> self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this
> info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.
>
>
>
>
>
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
I wasn=B9t sure of the price...they have never answered my emails.
Max
On 2/1/08 6:27 PM, "Pietsrneat@aol.com" <Pietsrneat@aol.com> wrote:
> Max,
> I have been looking at the Donovan engine for quite some time. But, th
e
> price!
> Ron
>
> In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> MaxHegler@msn.com writes:
>> Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement...
>>
>> http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html
>>
>> Max
>
>
>
>
> Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music
> <http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030
00000
> 02548>
>
>
>
>
Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
_http://www.modelaparts.net/donovan.htm/estimate.htm_
(http://www.modelaparts.net/donovan.htm/estimate.htm)
In a message dated 2/1/2008 8:14:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
MaxHegler@msn.com writes:
I wasn=99t sure of the price...they have never answered my emails.
Max
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300
0000025
48)
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
BFD wrote:
> Leon. I have gn1 plans and plan on using a marine version
> of the iron duke which is 181 cu in. with an industrial cam grind.
FWIW, marine engines tend to spin significantly faster than industrial
engines. You might want to confirm the rpm and torque curve and see
whether there is a version that delivers its power at a speed where you
can run a larger prop.
Haven't looked up that machine myself, so my reasoning could be all wet
here. That's just the way it usually works.
Owen
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Possible engine alternative |
Matt Naiva wrote:
> A few issues back in inaugural or second issue of the Doc and Dee
> Mosher edited Broadhead Pietenpols Newsletter, I believe there was a
> picture of a Pietenpol with a 68 2.5l version of this engine turning a
> prop supported on a stub shaft in a bell housing.
Great to know! Thanks.
> Unfortunately GM recently dropped the carb 3.0 model but the are still
> available for about $1795 plus freight. Contact me offline if you are
> interested in more details about the engine or how to get one.
Will do.
> If you need support I would suggest you build a corvair.
That is a much more likely choice for me, of course, but I'd like to
keep my options open for a while longer.
> By the way the original context of Bob's industrial plant
> recomendation was in a tomb titled "flying on the cheap" where he
> detailed the potential of the Piet to be built very cheaply using
> industrial leftovers. A great piece to search for on his Blog.
That was it I referenced: November 2006. And I agree. It's a great piece.
> Don't forget the contributions of Larry Harrison of Poplar Piet flying
> 400+ hours on a 2.5l Iron Duke from a Chevy S-10 followed by many
> great hours of aviating behind a 2.2l Mopar. Both in his words compare
> well to th efling capability of a C85 Pietenpol. The Pietenpol has no
> shortage of great engine options, some more pure than the rest but all
> are viable with enough attention to detail. Every alternative engine
> landing on the nose of an Aircamper is true to the inventive Spirit
> and legacy of Bernard Pietenpol.
Yup.
Thanks again. I definitely will inquire about the industrial engine.
Owen
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
Ouch!!!!
On 2/1/08 8:40 PM, "Pietsrneat@aol.com" <Pietsrneat@aol.com> wrote:
> http://www.modelaparts.net/donovan.htm/estimate.htm
>
> In a message dated 2/1/2008 8:14:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> MaxHegler@msn.com writes:
>> I wasn=B9t sure of the price...they have never answered my emails.
>>
>> Max
>
>
>
>
> Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music
> <http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030
00000
> 02548>
>
>
>
>
Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
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gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
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These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
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bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
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a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
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Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
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Look for the link "Image Resizer"
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*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
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Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
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****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
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*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
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do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
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**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
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*** List Member Information ***
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If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
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Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
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or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
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*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
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I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
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Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
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The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
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Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
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agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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