Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Fri 02/01/08


Total Messages Posted: 31



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:16 AM - Re: Possible engine alternative (jimd)
     2. 05:07 AM - Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport Aviation Cover ! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
     3. 05:19 AM - 2 minute video about Oshkosh (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
     4. 05:23 AM - Re: Possible engine alternative (Ryan Mueller)
     5. 05:31 AM - Re: Sport Aviation Magazine (Skip Gadd)
     6. 06:15 AM - Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative (Owen Davies)
     7. 07:16 AM - Re: Name for Bigger Piets (Ron Franck)
     8. 07:36 AM - Re: Plywood (Bill Church)
     9. 09:42 AM - Re: Better name for "big" piet (Jim Courtney)
    10. 09:56 AM - Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection (Michael Fisher)
    11. 10:19 AM - Re: Possible engine alternative (Patrick Panzera)
    12. 11:11 AM - Re: Better name for "big" piet (Jeff Boatright)
    13. 01:11 PM - Re: Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection (Jeff Boatright)
    14. 01:55 PM - Alternate engines (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
    15. 02:21 PM - Re: Alternate engines ()
    16. 02:33 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Max Hegler)
    17. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Name for Bigger Piets (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
    18. 02:48 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Brian Kraut)
    19. 02:55 PM - Re: Alternate engines (BFD)
    20. 03:31 PM - Possible engine alternative (Matt Naiva)
    21. 03:53 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Ryan Mueller)
    22. 04:34 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
    23. 04:45 PM - Re: Ribs for sale (Richard)
    24. 05:04 PM - Re: Alternate engines (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
    25. 05:13 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Office 2004 Test Drive User)
    26. 06:43 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
    27. 06:46 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Owen Davies)
    28. 07:02 PM - Re: Possible engine alternative (Owen Davies)
    29. 07:43 PM - Re: Alternate engines (Office 2004 Test Drive User)
    30. 11:03 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    31. 11:04 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:16:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
    From: "jimd" <jlducey@hotmail.com>
    owen, The cheapest nice plane your going to get in the air is an unfinished project. Something like the one in Boulder thats been on Barnstormers for quite a while. Think he wanted $6200, it was Gary Ennerking's plane, look at westcoastpiet or Barnstormers to see pictures. That plane has a corvair engine, workmanship looks good, and compared to building from scratch you couldn't touch the price. Just an example, ... but I looked around a lot, and was very close to buying the one I mentioned, then my biplane project came along and I bought it instead, spent a lot transporting it, spent money on a pod for storage, a shed to hold all the stuff kicked out of my garage.. etc. So the for sale price is not even the price it will be when you actually have it, but even so, I don't think you can find less expensive than the right uncompleted project.. and piets are pretty reasonable for the most part. For a one holer the smith mini's seem to go cheap as projects.. but I could barely fit in one when I was 10 yrs old, by 11 they were too small. Anyway, thats my thought on it. By the way I am snowbound in a hotel, trying to get from Seattle to my fabric covering class, all the passes are closed.. its just part of the adventure. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161784#161784


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:07:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport Aviation Cover
    !
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    What a great shot in the arm for the Pietenpol world and potential builders out there reading the latest issue of Sport Aviation, Dick. That was a fine article with excellent photos of you flying your radial powered Pietenpol over some gorgeous fall colors up north. You've done us all very proud ! Mike C. PS-- you even shaved for that photo !


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:19:51 AM PST US
    Subject: 2 minute video about Oshkosh
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Dick N. is shown in this nice 2 minute overview of what Oshkosh is all about. Short clip but nice of him running his engine for the crowds during the show. Mike C. http://www.eaa.org/video/airventure.html?videoId=1389983003


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:23:54 AM PST US
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
    One of the KR builders out there has stated put he put together a standard WW based Corvair conversion in 2003/2004 for approximately $2500. I imagine he did most of the work himself, which helps keep the cost down. We plan on ours coming in at, worst case, just under/around $5000. That's with a starter and front mount alternator, buying a few other components instead of making our own (deep sump oil pan, intake system), and paying to have some work done (heads). If we went with a hand-prop blower fan conversion our cost would drop roughly another $1500 at least. I would think that the hand-prop blower fan Corvair conversion would yield an engine that is reliable for the least amount of money. You lose a bit of power by retaining the blower, but it lets you use the stock alternator, which keeps cost down. The other upside is that it is a proven combination, with plenty of reliable information on the conversion and installation process. I would think this would save you time and money by reducing the variables that you have to deal with and preventing you from having to figure it all out yourself on an as yet untested engine. Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net> wrote:> The crankshaft durability is unknown in this application, whereas the > Model A crankshaft has proven to hold up. At this point, I am just doing a thought experiment, trying to figure out how cheaply one could get a two-place plane in the air these days. The Piet is the obvious place to begin, but the key is still to get the cost of the powerplant as low as possible. I'm trying to find something cheaper than an A. Thanks for the info. Owen --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:31:23 AM PST US
    From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Magazine
    Dick, Way to go!! The cover and article came out REAL good. Great for the Piet world and the Sun N Fun wood shop too. Skip > Dan > My copy hasnt arrived yet. I'm anxiously wating. > Thanks > Dick N.


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:15:58 AM PST US
    From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
    jimd wrote: > The cheapest nice plane your going to get in the air is an unfinished project. > Agreed unreservedly. A friend in Maine recently missed a nearly-finished Kitfox with FWF for $2500. And perhaps ten years ago, I missed a ready-to-cover Baby Lakes, lacking only engine and instruments, for $800! The moment I heard about it, I ran across the field, only to find someone backing up a trailer for it--this after it had sat around the "fly market" for five hours, virtually ignored. I still cry every time I think about it. (Going to get a tissue now.) And I still want a Baby Lakes. > By the way I am snowbound in a hotel, trying to get from Seattle to my fabric covering class, all the passes are closed.. its just part of the adventure. Snow. That's that white stuff, isn't it? I think we had that in New Hampshire. (In fact, it was the biggest single reason we moved to Florida! I hate the cold!) And Ryan Mueller wrote: > One of the KR builders out there has stated put he put together a > standard WW based Corvair conversion in 2003/2004 for approximately > $2500. I imagine he did most of the work himself, which helps keep the > cost down. It's hard to beat that price, of course, but that is why I am looking for something else. I almost surely will use the Wynne Corvair, much as I love the sound of a Ford, but if something even cheaper appears we could just about get a Piet in the air for the cost of most engines. That could open flying up to people for whom even a Corvair conversion would be painful to buy in a single lump, and this strikes me as being a very worthwhile goal. Wouldn't help me much, alas. Here in Florida's so-called Treasure Coast, they want a whole lot of any treasure you might have just to rent a T-hangar. Not sure what tie-downs go for, as I hate the idea of leaving a plane out in this sun. Thanks for your thoughts. Owen


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:16:48 AM PST US
    From: Ron Franck <franck@geneseo.net>
    Subject: Re: Name for Bigger Piets
    How about "Rosie O'Donnell Piet"?


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:36:30 AM PST US
    Subject: Plywood
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    I'm jealous. Back in October, when I enquired at Boulter, they said there was no problem to cut down the sheets, and ship across the border into Canada. They just needed an address to calculate the shipping cost. Well, the shipping was going to be $150. So,even if the wood was free, it would still be too expensive. I hate UPS. BC


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:42:03 AM PST US
    From: Jim Courtney <jbciii5656@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
    Piet-Ola.....You know, like Shin-OLa! Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote: .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } 747 Piet? 380 Piet? http://www.gillesvidal.com/blogpano/cockpit1.htm Clif :-) I will suggest a few maybe somebody else has a term that would be better than OVERSIZE. How about - Piet Plus - Piet plus 2 - Piet plus 3 etc etc - Supersize Piet - Jumbo Piet Anybody else have a suggestion? Steve in Maine href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c --------------------------------- Release Date: 1/31/2008 8:30 PM --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:56:07 AM PST US
    From: Michael Fisher <mfisher@gci.net>
    Subject: Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection
    Hi Friends, Thanks for recommending some interesting web sites. There is no shortage of ideas out there. For the 1.9L Ford Escort direct drive, I will be using a homebrew, constant flow injection system with no electronics. The core idea came from the book "Jungle Pilot" by Nate Saint. Three power settings will do the job --- takeoff, cruise, and approach. A blip-switch on the stick will enable zero thrust operations. A light wooden propeller on a high compression engine will quit turning if the pilot slows it too much. Mustn't let that happen. A little open cockpit parasol monoplane (Pietenpol) peels off into a steep slip to clear the tall spruce trees guarding a river gravel bar where the king salmon run. Brppp, brppp, brppp sounds are trumpeting from the short Allison style stacks. How cool is that? Not much vertical surface aft of the aerodynamic center, large control surfaces, ignition interrupt to zero thrust -- the Piet can descend fast enough to get in plenty of trouble...don't let it bite you. Happy landings, Mike Fisher Talkeetna, Alaska Where the Temp. registers minus 28 degrees F.


    Message 11


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    Time: 10:19:38 AM PST US
    From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
    Subject: Possible engine alternative
    http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/Engine_cost.html _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 5:21 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Possible engine alternative One of the KR builders out there has stated put he put together a standard WW based Corvair conversion in 2003/2004 for approximately $2500. I imagine he did most of the work himself, which helps keep the cost down. We plan on ours coming in at, worst case, just under/around $5000. That's with a starter and front mount alternator, buying a few other components instead of making our own (deep sump oil pan, intake system), and paying to have some work done (heads). If we went with a hand-prop blower fan conversion our cost would drop roughly another $1500 at least. I would think that the hand-prop blower fan Corvair conversion would yield an engine that is reliable for the least amount of money. You lose a bit of power by retaining the blower, but it lets you use the stock alternator, which keeps cost down. The other upside is that it is a proven combination, with plenty of reliable information on the conversion and installation process. I would think


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:11:26 AM PST US
    From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: Better name for "big" piet
    What to call a Piet with more room in the cockpit? How about... Comfortable >:-} -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:11:40 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection
    Got any more details on that injection system? Sounds intriguing. > > >Hi Friends, > Thanks for recommending some interesting web sites. >There is no shortage of ideas out there. For the 1.9L Ford Escort >direct drive, I will be using a homebrew, constant flow injection >system with no electronics. The core idea came from the book >"Jungle Pilot" by Nate Saint. Three power settings will do the job >--- takeoff, cruise, and approach. A blip-switch on the stick will >enable zero thrust operations. -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision


    Message 14


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    Time: 01:55:29 PM PST US
    From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
    Subject: Alternate engines
    I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet.


    Message 15


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    Time: 02:21:39 PM PST US
    From: <bike.mike@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternate engines
    Just FYI; there isn't any legal liability in writing about "This is what I did" and This is what happened." There is no implied inducement to try the same things. Most useful information that is kept out of the pulic eye, such as the many non-standard engine conversions, is kept out because the holder of it doesn't realize that other people would be interested. Mike Hardaway ---- Leon Stefan <lshutks@webtv.net> wrote: > > I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines > comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a > Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an > S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot > of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried > it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's > cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly > got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours > successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of > Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but > want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that > look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who > have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate > engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the > answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my > self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this > info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet. > > > > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 02:33:43 PM PST US
    From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternate engines
    Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement... http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html Max ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines > > I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines > comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a > Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an > S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot > of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried > it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's > cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly > got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours > successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of > Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but > want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that > look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who > have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate > engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the > answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my > self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this > info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet. > > > > > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 02:38:05 PM PST US
    From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Name for Bigger Piets
    Nope...no way! Can't get the side to billow out that far! How about "Rosie O'Donnell Piet"? Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


    Message 18


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    Time: 02:48:44 PM PST US
    From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
    Subject: Alternate engines
    My Sky Scout has a 2.2 liter Chrysler. It retains pretty much the look of the Model A or T engine. It was flown, but a previous owner robbed the wings and tail for a 2 place Piet project and I have not run the engine yet so I can't comment on anything other than the looks. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com --- ---- Leon Stefan <lshutks@webtv.net> wrote: > > I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines > comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a > Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an > S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot > of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried > it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's > cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly > got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours > successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of > Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but > want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that > look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who > have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate > engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the > answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my > self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this > info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet. > > > > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 02:55:45 PM PST US
    From: "BFD" <mr.clean@centurytel.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternate engines
    Leon. I have gn1 plans and plan on using a marine version of the iron duke which is 181 cu in. with an industrial cam grind. They are used in the mercruiser inboard marine industry. That should be close to the same type of abuse as flying. Maybe at prop speed should have 70-80 hp.Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines > > I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines > comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a > Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an > S-10 pick up.


    Message 20


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    Time: 03:31:16 PM PST US
    From: "Matt Naiva" <corvaircoupe@gmail.com>
    Subject: Possible engine alternative
    Owen, A few issues back in inaugural or second issue of the Doc and Dee Mosher edited Broadhead Pietenpols Newsletter, I believe there was a picture of a Pietenpol with a 68 2.5l version of this engine turning a prop supported on a stub shaft in a bell housing. Bob's engine of note continues to remain available and will be because they are the core of a fleet of forklift truck engines and other OEM applications which make it hard to obsolete. Unfortunately GM recently dropped the carb 3.0 model but the are still available for about $1795 plus freight. Contact me offline if you are interested in more details about the engine or how to get one. If you need support I would suggest you build a corvair. Other Options to consider... Careful inspection of a 60degree V6 Chevy points to a long block with aluminium heads at the same weight as th eI4 3.0l industrial mill. One of the 20 million Ford Vulcans produced is worth a look a long block weigh in at about 260 before water pump coolant and radiator and can be had as a rebuildable core for $1-200. 3.0l All CAST IRON. Rugged. The Aircooled Corvair has many advantages not to mention a track record and support group. As Bob always likes to point out You Are the Mechanic in Charge. Serious business. This 3.0l industrial water pumper in the link below landed on the Curtis Racer Build by the hand of Julius Junge. The plane needed the weight as it originally had an OX5 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steamlaunch@softhome.net.08.21.2004/ http://www.gm.com/explore/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/industrial/industrial_engines.jsp By the way the original context of Bob's industrial plant recomendation was in a tomb titled "flying on the cheap" where he detailed the potential of the Piet to be built very cheaply using industrial leftovers. A great piece to search for on his Blog. The Pietenpol Aircamper is a lovable little beast than can carry a fair amount of weight on the nose. This probably explains why it has had more auto engines than any other single design. Don't forget the contributions of Larry Harrison of Poplar Piet flying 400+ hours on a 2.5l Iron Duke from a Chevy S-10 followed by many great hours of aviating behind a 2.2l Mopar. Both in his words compare well to th efling capability of a C85 Pietenpol. The Pietenpol has no shortage of great engine options, some more pure than the rest but all are viable with enough attention to detail. Every alternative engine landing on the nose of an Aircamper is true to the inventive Spirit and legacy of Bernard Pietenpol. Regards, Matt Time: 02:16:42 PM PST US From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Possible engine alternative Bob Hoover (the other Bob Hoover, at http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/) mentioned the following in his entry for 11/16/06: "This may come as a surprise but there are modern industrial engines that weigh less than the Model A and produce more torque at an even lower rpm. GM makes a nice one. $1600 brand new in the crate from the factory. It cranks out an honest 65 hp @ 1800 rpm, giving you more than twice the thrust of the Model A. The engine, which has been in production since about 1965, is also available used and overhauled, in both long and short block versions. Just be sure you get it with the Industrial Engine cam instead of the Marine Engine cam. The marine version runs at a much higher rpm. Ford makes a similar engine although I'm not familiar with its specs." I've looked for it and can't find it, so it may have been discontinued. I'll drop him a note one of these days and ask where to find that engine. But first I'm wondering whether anyone has ever seen such an animal on the nose of a Piet. Anyone? I wonder what it would cost from a good reman shop? Thanks. Owen


    Message 21


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    Time: 03:53:30 PM PST US
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternate engines
    Max, It would be very interesting to see one used in a Piet. Unfortunately that block is going to run you about $10,000.... Gulp! Ryan Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement... http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html Max ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines > > I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines > comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a > Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an > S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot > of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried > it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's > cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly > got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours > successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of > Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but > want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that > look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who > have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate > engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the > answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my > self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this > info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet. > > > > > > ---------------------------------


    Message 22


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    Time: 04:34:29 PM PST US
    From: Pietsrneat@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Alternate engines
    Max, I have been looking at the Donovan engine for quite some time. But, the price! Ron In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, MaxHegler@msn.com writes: Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement... http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html Max **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)


    Message 23


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    Time: 04:45:37 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Ribs for sale
    From: "Richard" <watash101@cox.net>
    Interested party in AZ. Do not know the name of the builder and assume T88 and quality construction. Please contact me at your convenience. Photos? Thanks, Richard Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161971#161971


    Message 24


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    Time: 05:04:59 PM PST US
    From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Alternate engines
    Brian, Send some photosto see. Ken H Brian Kraut <brian.kraut@engalt.com> wrote: My Sky Scout has a 2.2 liter Chrysler. It retains pretty much the look of the Model A or T engine. It was flown, but a previous owner robbed the wings and tail for a 2 place Piet project and I have not run the engine yet so I can't comment on anything other than the looks. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com --- ---- Leon Stefan wrote: > > I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines > comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a > Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an > S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a lot > of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, dried > it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. That's > cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which hardly > got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours > successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of > Poplar Piet. I would love to use something other than the Model A, but > want to keep the original Model A look. Unfortunately you can't get that > look from the Corvair. Wouldn't it be nice if if some of these guys who > have already done all of the RandD and successfully tested an alternate > engine make the conversion public. (Yah, I probably already know the > answer--legal liability ) I don;t have the gray matter to do this my > self, but can follow a experts instructions. I would gladly pay for this > info. Leon Stefan in Kansas where UPS is paying for his Piet. > > > > > Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


    Message 25


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    Time: 05:13:48 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternate engines
    From: Office 2004 Test Drive User <MaxHegler@msn.com>
    I wasn=B9t sure of the price...they have never answered my emails. Max On 2/1/08 6:27 PM, "Pietsrneat@aol.com" <Pietsrneat@aol.com> wrote: > Max, > I have been looking at the Donovan engine for quite some time. But, th e > price! > Ron > > In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > MaxHegler@msn.com writes: >> Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement... >> >> http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html >> >> Max > > > > > Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music > <http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030 00000 > 02548> > > > > Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.


    Message 26


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    Time: 06:43:45 PM PST US
    From: Pietsrneat@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Alternate engines
    _http://www.modelaparts.net/donovan.htm/estimate.htm_ (http://www.modelaparts.net/donovan.htm/estimate.htm) In a message dated 2/1/2008 8:14:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, MaxHegler@msn.com writes: I wasn=99t sure of the price...they have never answered my emails. Max **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300 0000025 48)


    Message 27


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    Time: 06:46:28 PM PST US
    From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternate engines
    BFD wrote: > Leon. I have gn1 plans and plan on using a marine version > of the iron duke which is 181 cu in. with an industrial cam grind. FWIW, marine engines tend to spin significantly faster than industrial engines. You might want to confirm the rpm and torque curve and see whether there is a version that delivers its power at a speed where you can run a larger prop. Haven't looked up that machine myself, so my reasoning could be all wet here. That's just the way it usually works. Owen


    Message 28


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    Time: 07:02:48 PM PST US
    From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Possible engine alternative
    Matt Naiva wrote: > A few issues back in inaugural or second issue of the Doc and Dee > Mosher edited Broadhead Pietenpols Newsletter, I believe there was a > picture of a Pietenpol with a 68 2.5l version of this engine turning a > prop supported on a stub shaft in a bell housing. Great to know! Thanks. > Unfortunately GM recently dropped the carb 3.0 model but the are still > available for about $1795 plus freight. Contact me offline if you are > interested in more details about the engine or how to get one. Will do. > If you need support I would suggest you build a corvair. That is a much more likely choice for me, of course, but I'd like to keep my options open for a while longer. > By the way the original context of Bob's industrial plant > recomendation was in a tomb titled "flying on the cheap" where he > detailed the potential of the Piet to be built very cheaply using > industrial leftovers. A great piece to search for on his Blog. That was it I referenced: November 2006. And I agree. It's a great piece. > Don't forget the contributions of Larry Harrison of Poplar Piet flying > 400+ hours on a 2.5l Iron Duke from a Chevy S-10 followed by many > great hours of aviating behind a 2.2l Mopar. Both in his words compare > well to th efling capability of a C85 Pietenpol. The Pietenpol has no > shortage of great engine options, some more pure than the rest but all > are viable with enough attention to detail. Every alternative engine > landing on the nose of an Aircamper is true to the inventive Spirit > and legacy of Bernard Pietenpol. Yup. Thanks again. I definitely will inquire about the industrial engine. Owen


    Message 29


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    Time: 07:43:41 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternate engines
    From: Office 2004 Test Drive User <MaxHegler@msn.com>
    Ouch!!!! On 2/1/08 8:40 PM, "Pietsrneat@aol.com" <Pietsrneat@aol.com> wrote: > http://www.modelaparts.net/donovan.htm/estimate.htm > > In a message dated 2/1/2008 8:14:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > MaxHegler@msn.com writes: >> I wasn=B9t sure of the price...they have never answered my emails. >> >> Max > > > > > Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music > <http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030 00000 > 02548> > > > > Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.


    Message 30


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    Time: 11:03:09 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. 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To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 31


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    Time: 11:04:28 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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