---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/02/08: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:28 AM - [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative (jimd) 2. 04:34 AM - Re: Alternate engines (Jeff Boatright) 3. 06:05 AM - Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative (Michael Silvius) 4. 09:34 AM - Re: Alternate engines (Office 2004 Test Drive User) 5. 10:02 AM - Homebrew Injection (Michael Fisher) 6. 10:58 AM - Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative (Gene & Tammy) 7. 03:05 PM - Re: Sport Aviation Magazine (Dale Johnson) 8. 05:15 PM - Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative (Jeff Boatright) 9. 05:34 PM - Re: Any Piet projects in/around Denver? (Rick Holland) 10. 05:48 PM - Speaking of Piet projects in the Denver area.. (MikeD) 11. 10:12 PM - Another engine choice (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 12. 10:16 PM - more engine selections (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative From: "jimd" There are deals everywhere in unfinished projects, as there are so many of them. EAA says stuff like for every 100 plans sold, ten projects are started and one completed on average. Over time that adds up to a lot of projects. (Not sure those numbers really work out.. like if there are thousands of RV's flying, there would be 100's of thousands of plans out there.. probably not.) [Rolling Eyes] There was an add in barnstormers for a BD-4 without FWF, a woody pusher with new engine needing to be covered, a dissassembled A-65 and misc junk for 6k. That kind of thing could keep someone busy for a long time, or in my case probably make me a bachelor again... Seems like there are quite a few low cost low power engines around. (Rotax's, Lyc 0-145's, even some A-65's). The corvair makes a nice low cost 100-110hp engine. But seems like the more popular plane designs now are all needing 150-200hp engines, and I am not aware of any great deal engines in that range. Years ago there were 0-290G, and other GPU's around that were being converted, but think that happens a lot less now. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162016#162016 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:41 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines If ya gotta ask... >I wasn't sure of the price...they have never answered my emails. > >Max > > >On 2/1/08 6:27 PM, "Pietsrneat@aol.com" wrote: > >Max, > I have been looking at the Donovan engine for quite some time. >But, the price! >Ron > >In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >MaxHegler@msn.com writes: > >Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement... > >http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html > >Max > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:39 AM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative Jim: Mazda 13B rotary form the RX7 is a litle bit unconventinal but by now a proven recipe. http://www.rotaryaviation.com/ 150 to 180 hp without even breathing hard and no valves to burn out. short block from aftermarket remanufacturers runs about 2500$ and the redrive 3000$. You can do even beter if you do your own rebuild. I am working on one for my Falconar. Michael Silvius ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimd" > > . But seems like the more popular plane designs now are all needing 150-200hp engines, and I am not aware of any great deal engines in that range. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines From: Office 2004 Test Drive User Story of my life...sigh... On 2/2/08 6:31 AM, "Jeff Boatright" wrote: > If ya gotta ask... > >> I wasn't sure of the price...they have never answered my emails. >> >> Max >> >> >> On 2/1/08 6:27 PM, "Pietsrneat@aol.com" wrote: >>> Max, >>> I have been looking at the Donovan engine for quite some time. But, the >>> price! >>> Ron >>> >>> In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>> MaxHegler@msn.com writes: >>>> Has anyone looked into this engine? Model "A" replacement... >>>> >>>> http://www.donovanengineering.com/Blocks/ModelDBlock.html >>>> Max > Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:54 AM PST US From: Michael Fisher Subject: Pietenpol-List: Homebrew Injection From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steep Approaches, Homebrew Injection Got any more details on that injection system? Sounds intriguing. Hi alternate engine aficionados, The injection system is only a concept at this point. Throttle body injection or carburetor results in wet manifold. Intake port, multi-point injection keeps the manifold dry. --- Huge difference in Cyl. to Cyl. charge balance and icing resistance -- greatly favors dry manifold. There is no need for sequential port injection at power settings much above an idle. Many have adapted a carburetor to engines designed for injection. This works better on systems that were originally throttle body. I will be working on the 1.9L inverted Ford constant-flow, multi-point system whenever I get the dry sump oiling system operational. Mike Fisher ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:17 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative For what it's worth. One of sthe cheapest ways to power a Pietenpol with a reliable engine is to buy a midtime A 65. You can find them for between $2000 and $3500. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimd" Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 5:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative > > There are deals everywhere in unfinished projects, as there are so many of > them. EAA says stuff like for every 100 plans sold, ten projects are > started and one completed on average. Over time that adds up to a lot of > projects. (Not sure those numbers really work out.. like if there are > thousands of RV's flying, there would be 100's of thousands of plans out > there.. probably not.) [Rolling Eyes] > > There was an add in barnstormers for a BD-4 without FWF, a woody pusher > with new engine needing to be covered, a dissassembled A-65 and misc junk > for 6k. That kind of thing could keep someone busy for a long time, or in > my case probably make me a bachelor again... > > Seems like there are quite a few low cost low power engines around. > (Rotax's, Lyc 0-145's, even some A-65's). The corvair makes a nice low > cost 100-110hp engine. But seems like the more popular plane designs now > are all needing 150-200hp engines, and I am not aware of any great deal > engines in that range. Years ago there were 0-290G, and other GPU's around > that were being converted, but think that happens a lot less now. > > Jim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162016#162016 > > > -- > 1:50 PM > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:05:32 PM PST US From: "Dale Johnson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Magazine Dick Nice pictures Nice write up . Way to go . Dale > [Original Message] > From: Dick Navratil > To: > Date: 1/31/2008 9:30:17 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Magazine > > > Dan > My copy hasnt arrived yet. I'm anxiously wating. > Thanks > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "dwilson" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:26 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Magazine > > > > > > Wow! Have you seen who is on the front cover of Sport Aviation ? Way to > > go Richard. That's a great picture! > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161489#161489 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:57 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: [!! SPAM] Re: Possible engine alternative In my limited experience, the critical number with the A65 is oil pressure after at least 30 min of flight. Is it steady and is it above 25 psi? I think that the A65 is the best value out there IF it can hold pressure. A lot don't any more. Of course, if you only fly 20 min at dusk (about my speed), who cares? :) > >For what it's worth. >One of sthe cheapest ways to power a Pietenpol with a reliable >engine is to buy a midtime A 65. You can find them for between >$2000 and $3500. Gene -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:17 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Any Piet projects in/around Denver? Especially breathtaking today Barry, with this wind the chill factor is a bit below zero. Temperatures I know you Georgia boys can't relate to. But the garage is warm enough for Jim and I to spend some time checking out my Piet project with a few beers. Rick do not archive On Jan 30, 2008 8:37 AM, Barry Davis wrote: > Gotta check out Rick Holland's Piet down in Castle Rock (you'll figure > out why they call it Castle Rock when you get there) . I visited Rick a > couple of years ago and had a great time. Rick's home is in the middle of > some beautiful country. The view from the front porch is almost > breathtaking. I bet with all this cold weather, it really is breathtaking. > Barry Davis > Big Piet Builder > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jim Markle > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:42 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Any Piet projects in/around Denver? > > I have a 2 week trip to Denver coming up...... > > If there's anyone in the area, please contact me offlist and let's get > together! > > Jim Markle > Pryor, OK > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Piet projects in the Denver area.. From: "MikeD" I just bought a nrealy complete Piet project from a fellow in the Denver area. On that Piet is a zero-time Corvair conversion (fan cooled not WW), prop, engine mount, and a cowl pulled from BHP's own Corvair mold as we are told by the builder. We are planning to fit a Continental A-75 we already own to this Piet, therefore we will be putting everything firewall forward up for grabs in the near future.. once we make up the ad and post it. If anyone is interested, PM me and we'll talk. We are planning a trip there to pick up the aircraft in April, between now and then it is sitting there for a look-see if anyone is halfway serious about it. The engine will run as it sits now, battery state of charge not withstanding. If the work behind the firewall is indiciative of the work in front of it, these are good parts. I have not been there in person yet, this transaction was conducted via the photo ad, extra photos, and talking to everyone involved plus an independent mechanic who has inspected the aircraft. Cheers, Mike -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162110#162110 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:42 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice Hexadyne Hexatron two cylinder 60 horsepower 4 stroke aircraft engine Looking for an engine to power your Kitfox, Pietenpol or similar light aircraft? The people at Hexadyne Aviation think they have just the answer for you. The Hexadyne P60 is a new, clean-sheet design that is just coming to market, and the manufacturer is based here in Salt Lake City. Hexadyne is a division of Hexatron Engineering Company, Inc., an aerospace engineering and manufacturing firm that has been in operation since 1983. Hexatron builds FAA certified folding crew seats for commercial airliners, as well as replacement hub and brake components for C-130 and F-16 aircraft that are supplied to Hill Air Force base maintenance facilities. Cy Williams, President and Chief Engineer of Hexadyne, recently gave Shane Rosanova and myself a tour of the 12,000 sq. ft. manufacturing plant on North Redwood Rd. Cy explained that Hexatron originally got involved in experimental aviation when they became distributors for the now-defunct Merlin aircraft line five years ago. Cy soon realized that what was really needed was a high-quality, reliable and lightweight four stroke engine in the 60 horsepower range. That realization was the genesis of a three-year, million-dollar research and development effort that has resulted in the design of the Hexadyne P60. The P60 is a horizontally opposed, four-stroke, four valve per cylinder, aircooled, two cylinder engine that displaces 800 ccs and produces 60 horsepower at 5750 RPM. The cylinder heads have been designed with extra emphasis on cooling, with plenty of fin area and large air passages through the center of the head. The cylinders are directly across from each other, a design feature to reduce the rocking vibration that results when cylinders are offset. Hexadyne was able to do this by using one connecting rod for one cylinder and two smaller rods on their own crank journals for the other side cylinder. The crankshaft, a beefy steel forging, rides in a vertically-split, two piece aluminum crankcase that incorporates the cylinders. A Nikasil liner in each cylinder provides the wear surface for the forged aluminum pistons to ride in. Lubrication is provided by a two-stage dry sump oil system. Camshafts and oil pumps are gear-driven off the rear of the crankshaft, where the integral 45-amp alternator is mounted. The dual throttle body fuel injection and ignition are scheduled by an engine management computer, which provides single lever power management. The front of the engine contains an integral 2.5 to 1 spur-gear reduction gearbox, with thrust bearings that can handle tractor or pusher propeller thrust loads. The engine redline is 5750 RPM, which gives 2300 RPM at the prop. Engine mounting is handled by a rear, four point dyna-focal ring. After pointing out the design features of the engine, Cy introduced us over to one of his engine techs, named (appropriately enough!) Curtiss Wright. Curtiss led us to the back of the shop, where a P60 was mounted on a test stand. He started it up, and did runs up and down the engine RPM range, with the three-blade Warp Drive propeller creating quite a breeze. This particular engine had already amassed more than 800 hours of running time, and Cy said they expect an initial TBO of 1000 hours. The engine is expected to be available by this summer, and Hexadyne already has deposits on 25 engines. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty will be carrying it in their next catalog. The engines will each get a two hour test stand run before being shipped, and will be supplied with an installation, maintenance and overhaul manual. The engine will be warranted for two years against defective parts. Initial target price is $8,800 dollars. Compact size, light-weight (98 lbs), four stroke reliability and high quality together in one package make the Hexadyne P60 an attractive option for light aircraft builders. Hexadyne Aviation might just have the next big little engine right here in Salt Lake! The Hexadyne 2-cylinder engine and prop make a compact firewall-forward package. They are being marketed for ultralights and light aircraft that will fit under the new sport pilot FAR category. Courtesy of http://www.eaa23.org/News/nl-may01.pdf Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:19 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Pietenpol-List: more engine selections Cyclone 375 Aeromotor Why consider the Cyclone 375 over a two-stroke? Improved reliability of a four-stroke Higher torque and smoother power Less engine vibration and related fatigue Longer intervals between TBO Reduced noise and pollution Mechanical fuel pump w/electric backup Easily available and low cost parts Checklist of features: 50 Amp alternator Lightweight starter w/ built-in solenoid Cog-tooth belt reduction drive, made of aluminum castings Built in Continental cones on re-drive for mounting to firewall Thrust load is carried directly to firewall from re-drive, (no stress on block Light weight-full block is only 78lbs Re-drive is only 22lbs Improved fuel economy-1.5 to 2 g/h Authentic sound for light warbird replicas Low frontal area Why not modify the engine to get 100hp? The basic engine is a Suzuki 4-stroke, 3-cylinder, of 993 cubic centimeters in displacement. The reduction drive is made of aluminum castings and is precision machined. The engine is not altered from stock condition. The intake ports are slightly widened to match the triple carb setup. The idea behind this approach is that the engine is stock and can be expected to have the same reliability and longevity as it enjoys in the car. If we started changing valve timing and lift, crank and pistons, rods, etc.., you would wind up with a 100HP monster that would run at full throttle for a short time and then blow up. It would also run very rough at low speeds and have a torque curve like a two-stroke. If that is the kind of performance you're looking for, there are many good two-strokes(and over-engineered four-strokes) on the market that can provide it. Dyno testing was accomplished with a SeeRay computerized water-brake. The tests were done with the engine in a basic configuration. We expect that with further development and fine tuning some more improvements will be achieved. --------------------------------- Here is a front view of the re-drive and mount on my P-40 The carburetors are tried and true constant velocity type, which are excellent for fuel economy and air/fuel mixture under different conditions. Click here to see comparison charts between the Rotax 582, 618, and the Cyclone 375, for Horsepower and Torque. Reliability : These engines have been running in hundreds of thousands of cars for the last 12 years with great results. I may do an information booklet on how to make one yourself as time allows, I'd like to wait untill mine is flying first, to iron out the bugs. Your best bet is Raven ReDrives Inc. they have packages ready to go and lots of airtime. Raven ReDrives Inc website Paul Kane is a licensed auto mechanic, a trained computer technician, was the P-40 Squadron Leader for the Replica Fighters Association for several years, and has been building airplanes for the last ten years E-mail: lkane@interlog.com Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. 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