---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/04/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:05 AM - Re: Another engine choice () 2. 07:17 AM - Re: Alternate engines (Bill Church) 3. 08:26 AM - Re: Plywood (ALAN LYSCARS) 4. 09:40 AM - Re: my Sky Scout/ Alternate engines (Brian Kraut) 5. 10:34 AM - Re: Another engine choice (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 6. 06:09 PM - Re: Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport Aviation Cover ! (Dick Navratil) 7. 06:33 PM - Re: Plywood (Richard Schreiber) 8. 06:58 PM - sport aviation cover (RBush96589@aol.com) 9. 07:08 PM - Re: Plywood (Glenn Thomas) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice From: AS one pilot put it to me;have you seen this engine working on any plane yet even in demonstration? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: February 3, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice Ken That Hexadyne engine would not be a good choice for the Piet. It is soooo light you would have lots of problems getting your w/b on an already tail heavy plane. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: Pietenpol Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:09 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice Hexadyne Hexatron two cylinder 60 horsepower 4 stroke aircraft engine Looking for an engine to power your Kitfox, Pietenpol or similar light aircraft? The people at Hexadyne Aviation think they have just the answer for you. The Hexadyne P60 is a new, clean-sheet design that is just coming to market, and the manufacturer is based here in Salt Lake City. Hexadyne is a division of Hexatron Engineering Company, Inc., an aerospace engineering and manufacturing firm that has been in operation since 1983. Hexatron builds FAA certified folding crew seats for commercial airliners, as well as replacement hub and brake components for C-130 and F-16 aircraft that are supplied to Hill Air Force base maintenance facilities. Cy Williams, President and Chief Engineer of Hexadyne, recently gave Shane Rosanova and myself a tour of the 12,000 sq. ft. manufacturing plant on North Redwood Rd. Cy explained that Hexatron originally got involved in experimental aviation when they became distributors for the now-defunct Merlin aircraft line five years ago. Cy soon realized that what was really needed was a high-quality, reliable and lightweight four stroke engine in the 60 horsepower range. That realization was the genesis of a three-year, million-dollar research and development effort that has resulted in the design of the Hexadyne P60. The P60 is a horizontally opposed, four-stroke, four valve per cylinder, aircooled, two cylinder engine that displaces 800 cc's and produces 60 horsepower at 5750 RPM. The cylinder heads have been designed with extra emphasis on cooling, with plenty of fin area and large air passages through the center of the head. The cylinders are directly across from each other, a design feature to reduce the rocking vibration that results when cylinders are offset. Hexadyne was able to do this by using one connecting rod for one cylinder and two smaller rods on their own crank journals for the other side cylinder. The crankshaft, a beefy steel forging, rides in a vertically-split, two piece aluminum crankcase that incorporates the cylinders. A Nikasil liner in each cylinder provides the wear surface for the forged aluminum pistons to ride in. Lubrication is provided by a two-stage dry sump oil system. Camshafts and oil pumps are gear-driven off the rear of the crankshaft, where the integral 45-amp alternator is mounted. The dual throttle body fuel injection and ignition are scheduled by an engine management computer, which provides single lever power management. The front of the engine contains an integral 2.5 to 1 spur-gear reduction gearbox, with thrust bearings that can handle tractor or pusher propeller thrust loads. The engine redline is 5750 RPM, which gives 2300 RPM at the prop. Engine mounting is handled by a rear, four point dyna-focal ring. After pointing out the design features of the engine, Cy introduced us over to one of his engine techs, named (appropriately enough!) Curtiss Wright. Curtiss led us to the back of the shop, where a P60 was mounted on a test stand. He started it up, and did runs up and down the engine RPM range, with the three-blade Warp Drive propeller creating quite a breeze. This particular engine had already amassed more than 800 hours of running time, and Cy said they expect an initial TBO of 1000 hours. The engine is expected to be available by this summer, and Hexadyne already has deposits on 25 engines. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty will be carrying it in their next catalog. The engines will each get a two hour test stand run before being shipped, and will be supplied with an installation, maintenance and overhaul manual. The engine will be warranted for two years against defective parts. Initial target price is $8,800 dollars. Compact size, light-weight (98 lbs), four stroke reliability and high quality together in one package make the Hexadyne P60 an attractive option for light aircraft builders. Hexadyne Aviation might just have the next "big" little engine right here in Salt Lake! The Hexadyne 2-cylinder engine and prop make a compact firewall-forward package. They are being marketed for ultralights and light aircraft that will fit under the new sport pilot FAR category. Courtesy of http://www.eaa23.org/News/nl-may01.pdf Hexatron Engineering, the Hexadyne P 60 aircraft engine, 2 cylinder 4 stroke aircraft engine. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines From: "Bill Church" Don't know if anyone else noticed this or not, but Brian's Sky Scout fuselage and motor was originally built by Larry Harrison (the builder of the Poplar Piet that Leon referred to). I recognized the nice looking fuselage from a couple of pictures that were published in the Brodhead Pietenpol Association newsletter about a year ago. If you're good at reading slightly blurry photos you can see Larry's name right below the cockpit. According to the newsletter, it was Larry himself that removed the wings and tail - to mount on a new Air Camper fuselage he built - turning his Sky Scout from a one-seater into a two-seater. Sky Scout wings and tail on an Air Camper fuselage - would that make a Sky Camper or an Air Scout? Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines My Sky Scout has a 2.2 liter Chrysler. It retains pretty much the look of the Model A or T engine. It was flown, but a previous owner robbed the wings and tail for a 2 place Piet project and I have not run the engine yet so I can't comment on anything other than the looks. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com --- ---- Leon Stefan wrote: > > I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines > comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a > Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an > S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a > lot of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, > dried it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. > That's cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which > hardly got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours > successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of > Poplar Piet. > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:11 AM PST US From: "ALAN LYSCARS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood Rick, Did you buy your 1/16" rib gusset plywood from Boulter (I assume Okume is appropriate for this application)? If so, how much ply did you buy for the gussets, and to what dimension did you have Boulter cut the sheet(s?) for shipping? A Patriots fan who should have gone to bed earlier last night, Al Lyscars Manchester, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Schreiber To: pietenpol-list Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood Well my plywood came in today from Boulter. It was cut into 4 -12" x 8 foot strips which is exactly what I wanted. The 1 foot strips were cleanly cut and very nicely packaged. They also included another strip of thicker plywood for support. I am very pleased with the quality of the wood and the shipping. Boulter Plywood still is listing this as a special price. They originally had 2100 sheets, but I don't know how much they have left. For those interested, here is their web site link http://www.boulterplywood.com/. They also carry birch aircraft plywood. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:18 AM PST US From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: my Sky Scout/ Alternate engines Thanks for the history lesson. I knew that the wings and tail were removed for another Piet and I knew the builder's name and that he had built severel other Piets, but that was about it. I would love to get a copy of the newsletter if anyone could scan one and send it to me. I would also like to get any other information like the performance or number of hours on the plane if anyone knows, or just contact information for Larry Harrison. I suppose it was also Larry that built the nice set of GN-1 ribs that I got with the project. It will be a unique plane when it is done since I don't know of any other GN-1 Sky Scouts ever built before. It is also for sale since I am in the middle of a divorce and need to cut back on planes for a while. Pretty much just need to assemble the wing and cover the wings and tail to get it back in the air. Parts wise it just needs struts and maybe $100 of other minor odds and ends. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines Don't know if anyone else noticed this or not, but Brian's Sky Scout fuselage and motor was originally built by Larry Harrison (the builder of the Poplar Piet that Leon referred to). I recognized the nice looking fuselage from a couple of pictures that were published in the Brodhead Pietenpol Association newsletter about a year ago. If you're good at reading slightly blurry photos you can see Larry's name right below the cockpit. According to the newsletter, it was Larry himself that removed the wings and tail - to mount on a new Air Camper fuselage he built - turning his Sky Scout from a one-seater into a two-seater. Sky Scout wings and tail on an Air Camper fuselage - would that make a Sky Camper or an Air Scout? Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternate engines My Sky Scout has a 2.2 liter Chrysler. It retains pretty much the look of the Model A or T engine. It was flown, but a previous owner robbed the wings and tail for a 2 place Piet project and I have not run the engine yet so I can't comment on anything other than the looks. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com --- ---- Leon Stefan wrote: > > I've made this comment before when the subject of alternate engines > comes up. Several years ago a man (Larry Harrison) in Alabama built a > Piet called Poplar Piet, with the Chev. 2.5 4 cyl "iron duke" from an > S-10 pick up. The plane was written up in the old news letter with a > lot of fanfare given to how he found a poplar tree log, cut it up, > dried it , milled it, etc. ect'ed it and built his Pietenpol with it. > That's cool, but only mildly interesting compared to the engine which > hardly got any mention. He reportedly flew the plane over 600 hours > successfully before a crash unrelated to the engine ended the saga of > Poplar Piet. > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:44 AM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice Harvey & Dick, You both are right..... I read this engine selection with interest as it uses the "Pietenpol" as a choice for engine/plane compatibility. After reading the article it is truly an engine for am ultralight class of airplane. I am still on track for the corvair as I have purchased some used cores for re-building. Ken harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } AS one pilot put it to me;have you seen this engine working on any plane yet even in demonstration? --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: February 3, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice Ken That Hexadyne engine would not be a good choice for the Piet. It is soooo light you would have lots of problems getting your w/b on an already tail heavy plane. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: Pietenpol Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:09 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another engine choice Hexadyne Hexatron two cylinder 60 horsepower 4 stroke aircraft engine Looking for an engine to power your Kitfox, Pietenpol or similar light aircraft? The people at Hexadyne Aviation think they have just the answer for you. The Hexadyne P60 is a new, clean-sheet design that is just coming to market, and the manufacturer is based here in Salt Lake City. Hexadyne is a division of Hexatron Engineering Company, Inc., an aerospace engineering and manufacturing firm that has been in operation since 1983. Hexatron builds FAA certified folding crew seats for commercial airliners, as well as replacement hub and brake components for C-130 and F-16 aircraft that are supplied to Hill Air Force base maintenance facilities. Cy Williams, President and Chief Engineer of Hexadyne, recently gave Shane Rosanova and myself a tour of the 12,000 sq. ft. manufacturing plant on North Redwood Rd. Cy explained that Hexatron originally got involved in experimental aviation when they became distributors for the now-defunct Merlin aircraft line five years ago. Cy soon realized that what was really needed was a high-quality, reliable and lightweight four stroke engine in the 60 horsepower range. That realization was the genesis of a three-year, million-dollar research and development effort that has resulted in the design of the Hexadyne P60. The P60 is a horizontally opposed, four-stroke, four valve per cylinder, aircooled, two cylinder engine that displaces 800 ccs and produces 60 horsepower at 5750 RPM. The cylinder heads have been designed with extra emphasis on cooling, with plenty of fin area and large air passages through the center of the head. The cylinders are directly across from each other, a design feature to reduce the rocking vibration that results when cylinders are offset. Hexadyne was able to do this by using one connecting rod for one cylinder and two smaller rods on their own crank journals for the other side cylinder. The crankshaft, a beefy steel forging, rides in a vertically-split, two piece aluminum crankcase that incorporates the cylinders. A Nikasil liner in each cylinder provides the wear surface for the forged aluminum pistons to ride in. Lubrication is provided by a two-stage dry sump oil system. Camshafts and oil pumps are gear-driven off the rear of the crankshaft, where the integral 45-amp alternator is mounted. The dual throttle body fuel injection and ignition are scheduled by an engine management computer, which provides single lever power management. The front of the engine contains an integral 2.5 to 1 spur-gear reduction gearbox, with thrust bearings that can handle tractor or pusher propeller thrust loads. The engine redline is 5750 RPM, which gives 2300 RPM at the prop. Engine mounting is handled by a rear, four point dyna-focal ring. After pointing out the design features of the engine, Cy introduced us over to one of his engine techs, named (appropriately enough!) Curtiss Wright. Curtiss led us to the back of the shop, where a P60 was mounted on a test stand. He started it up, and did runs up and down the engine RPM range, with the three-blade Warp Drive propeller creating quite a breeze. This particular engine had already amassed more than 800 hours of running time, and Cy said they expect an initial TBO of 1000 hours. The engine is expected to be available by this summer, and Hexadyne already has deposits on 25 engines. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty will be carrying it in their next catalog. The engines will each get a two hour test stand run before being shipped, and will be supplied with an installation, maintenance and overhaul manual. The engine will be warranted for two years against defective parts. Initial target price is $8,800 dollars. Compact size, light-weight (98 lbs), four stroke reliability and high quality together in one package make the Hexadyne P60 an attractive option for light aircraft builders. Hexadyne Aviation might just have the next big little engine right here in Salt Lake! The Hexadyne 2-cylinder engine and prop make a compact firewall-forward package. They are being marketed for ultralights and light aircraft that will fit under the new sport pilot FAR category. Courtesy of http://www.eaa23.org/News/nl-may01.pdf Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:16 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport Aviation Cover ! I waited to respond till my issue came today and I got a chance to see the article. Thanks Mike, I grabbed an extra copy of the 1999 Sport Aviation that featured your plane and your pics have been on the board in my hangar ever since. I still watch your video occasionally on winter nights. Skip Gadd had a huge role in this building projects, keeping me from making some big mistakes. P.F Beck was also a big help with the volunteers and building at SNF. I took the idea for the center section radio cut out from Jack Phillips. Greg Cardinal and Dale Johnson built a great elevator linkage system and provided me with the help to copy. Greg also helped with the fuel tanks. There are too many people on and off of this list to recall right now, but thanks to all. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:04 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front Page News, Dick Navratil on Sport Aviation Cover ! What a great shot in the arm for the Pietenpol world and potential builders out there reading the latest issue of Sport Aviation, Dick. That was a fine article with excellent photos of you flying your radial powered Pietenpol over some gorgeous fall colors up north. You've done us all very proud ! Mike C. PS-- you even shaved for that photo ! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:47 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood Al, I only bought the 1/16" ply from Boulter to use on my wing leading edge. I purchased a 4'x8' sheet cut into 4 - 1'x 8' pieces. If the Okume from boulter would have been available a few years ago, I would have used it for my gussets and to sheet my inboard ribs. If you are just starting building and are building a 3 piece wing, I think I would order 2- 4x8 foot sheets. Have them slit one into 4 - 1'x 8' pieces for the leading edge and have the other 4x8 foot sheet cut into 2-4x4 foot pieces or 4 2x4 foot pieces if the shipping is too much. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ----- Original Message ----- From: ALAN LYSCARS Sent: 2/4/2008 10:34:12 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood Rick, Did you buy your 1/16" rib gusset plywood from Boulter (I assume Okume is appropriate for this application)? If so, how much ply did you buy for the gussets, and to what dimension did you have Boulter cut the sheet(s?) for shipping? A Patriots fan who should have gone to bed earlier last night, Al Lyscars Manchester, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Schreiber Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood Well my plywood came in today from Boulter. It was cut into 4 -12" x 8 foot strips which is exactly what I wanted. The 1 foot strips were cleanly cut and very nicely packaged. They also included another strip of thicker plywood for support. I am very pleased with the quality of the wood and the shipping. Boulter Plywood still is listing this as a special price. They originally had 2100 sheets, but I don't know how much they have left. For those interested, here is their web site link http://www.boulterplywood.com/. They also carry birch aircraft plywood. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:20 PM PST US From: RBush96589@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: sport aviation cover Hey Dick, I just got my copy of sport aviation,congratulations. I enjoyed your article and great photos.See you at sun-n-fun and Brodhead. Randy Bush NX294RB do not archive **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:08 PM PST US From: "Glenn Thomas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood Al, Boulter is in Somerville, MA. You could probably make a trip there from Manchester in less than an hour. It might be worth the drive. I live in CT and got a chance to look at the other plywood they sell too. They have a pretty large selection for such a small location. Making the drive gives you a chance to pick through their inventory and be more selective (I rejected 2 of the sheets he pulled out). I picked up 5 sheets of the 1.5mmmarine ply on Saturday. I bought a piece of 3/4 MDF and had them pack the plywood with the MDF and wrap it with cardboard. I'm kicking myself now for not getting some 1/8 while I was there. I'm going to make a list of all the other plywood I need and make another trip. I bought Aircraft Spruce's Finnish Birch and used a total of 4' x 4'. (I planned for as little waste as possible and had about a 3/4" strip left over.) One of those sheets should be more than enough to do your ribs. It cost me quite a bit more for a half sheet from AS&S than a full sheet from Boulter. Yes, the Pats really surprised me too. Lots of long faces at work today. On 2/4/08, ALAN LYSCARS wrote: > > Rick, > > Did you buy your 1/16" rib gusset plywood from Boulter (I assume Okume > is appropriate for this application)? If so, how much ply did you buy for > the gussets, and to what dimension did you have Boulter cut the sheet(s?) > for shipping? > > A Patriots fan who should have gone to bed earlier last night, > > Al Lyscars > Manchester, NH > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Richard Schreiber > *To:* pietenpol-list > *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:29 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Plywood > > > Well my plywood came in today from Boulter. It was cut into 4 -12" x 8 > foot strips which is exactly what I wanted. The 1 foot strips were cleanly > cut and very nicely packaged. They also included another strip of thicker > plywood for support. I am very pleased with the quality of the wood and the > shipping. > > Boulter Plywood still is listing this as a special price. They originally > had 2100 sheets, but I don't know how much they have left. For those > interested, here is their web site link http://www.boulterplywood.com/. > > They also carry birch aircraft plywood. > > Rick Schreiber > Valparaiso, IN > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.