---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/17/08: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:26 AM - Tire size (Peter W Johnson) 2. 05:43 AM - Re: Tail Wheel (Don Emch) 3. 06:22 AM - Question for Grega buliders/owners (Jeff Boatright) 4. 08:11 AM - Re: Capstrip steaming (MikeD) 5. 08:42 AM - Re: Key Style Mag Switch (bcharvet@bellsouth.net) 6. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: Capstrip steaming (ALAN LYSCARS) 7. 09:52 AM - Re: Tire size (shad bell) 8. 10:47 AM - Re: Tire size (Rick Holland) 9. 12:13 PM - Re: A-75 Prop (kmordecai001@comcast.net) 10. 01:34 PM - New Member (Bob Hassel) 11. 02:49 PM - Re: Tire size (Peter W Johnson) 12. 03:27 PM - Re: Capstrip steaming (jhubbard) 13. 03:40 PM - Newbie with the usual annoying questions (jhubbard) 14. 03:57 PM - Re: New Member (Rick Holland) 15. 04:12 PM - Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (Rick Holland) 16. 04:20 PM - Another newbie looking for advise (quinn) 17. 04:25 PM - Re: A-75 Prop (MikeD) 18. 05:02 PM - Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (jhubbard) 19. 05:05 PM - Re: Another newbie looking for advise (Rick Holland) 20. 06:12 PM - Re: New Member (Bob Hassel) 21. 07:09 PM - Re: Another newbie looking for advise (Jim Quinn) 22. 07:12 PM - Re: Another newbie looking for advise (Glenn Thomas) 23. 07:16 PM - Re: Question for Grega buliders/owners (Skip Gadd) 24. 07:24 PM - Re: Tire size (Skip Gadd) 25. 07:45 PM - Re: Capstrip steaming (MikeD) 26. 08:18 PM - Re: Tire size (gcardinal) 27. 08:30 PM - Re: Question for Grega buliders/owners (Jeff Boatright) 28. 08:45 PM - Long Fuse (Gary Boothe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:24 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tire size Hi Guys, I am thinking of changing my wire spoked wheels for normal aircraft type wheels. What tires sizes are you guys using? 15-6.00x6 or 8.00x6? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com 2:16 PM 2:16 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:52 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Wheel From: "Don Emch" I have a steerable non swivel homemade wheel on mine. It was fairly simple to make. A swivel wheel would be nice but I seem to get along fine without it. My home strip is 35-38 feet wide and it turns just sharp enough to turn around on it. It would be nice to be able to just shove backwards on the plane and have the wheel swivel around, but the tail is fairly light and the tubes on the skid design make a good handle to just pick it up and walk with it. Once you get used to just a steerable tailwheel you probably wouldn't even notice not having one. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/dscn0380_596.jpg http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/dscn0381_111.jpg Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164541#164541 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:28 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for Grega buliders/owners The Grega landing gear has steel channels on the that run across the bottom side of the fuselage from longeron to longeron. These channels are welded to the wing strut fittings. Does anyone know if bolts run vertically through this channel and up through the wooden crossmembers on the top side of the fuselage floor? That is, how are the steel channels held to the fuselage? Thanks, Jeff -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Capstrip steaming From: "MikeD" chase143 wrote: > Excellent! Thanks all for the replies. I am hooked on Matronics.... > I can see this is going to be a great community to build with! I've never seen reference to this with regards to full scale aircraft building, but an old tip for forming wood strips used by model boat and airplane builders is to use ammonia water. Ammonia softens the lignin in the wood, the stuff that binds the cellulose tubes/bits together, and allows the wood to be bent more easily, and when it dries out the ammonia evaps leaving the wood in more stress free condition, i.e. the bends more permanent, than water alone. Laminated wing tips, hull planking that requires sharp bends, that sort of thing all work well with this technique. But I am sure steam or hot water does a reasonable job. I have done both and can attest to the ammonia technique - curved parts for wing tips for example barely spring back after drying. I cannot attest to it's use in homebuilding aircraft, but someday I will build a rib using this technique and bend and twist it to see if it is sound. Mike -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164576#164576 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:23 AM PST US From: bcharvet@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Key Style Mag Switch I bought mine for $20 at a fly-mart. Watch e-bay, I seem them a lot when I'm searching for mags. Ben -------------- Original message from "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" : -------------- Members of the list: Anyone have information as to where I could purchase a Keyed Mag Switch? I viewed some of these mag switches in Brodhead, WI last year and would like to purchase one.......if one can be had! I like the style and design....... Ken H Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee

I bought mine for $20 at a fly-mart.  Watch e-bay, I seem them a lot when I'm searching for mags.

 

Ben

-------------- Original message from "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>: --------------

Members of the list:
 
Anyone have information as to where I could purchase a Keyed Mag Switch? I viewed some of these mag switches in Brodhead, WI last year and would like to purchase one.......if one can be had! I like the style and design.......
 
Ken H


Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
 
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
 turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
 
 
 
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:30 AM PST US From: "ALAN LYSCARS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Capstrip steaming Gents, With regard to the "ammonia treatment" can anyone give a ratio of household ammonia to water to me? Thanks, Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "MikeD" Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 11:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Capstrip steaming > > > chase143 wrote: >> Excellent! Thanks all for the replies. I am hooked on Matronics.... >> I can see this is going to be a great community to build with! > > > I've never seen reference to this with regards to full scale aircraft > building, but an old tip for forming wood strips used by model boat and > airplane builders is to use ammonia water. Ammonia softens the lignin in > the wood, the stuff that binds the cellulose tubes/bits together, and > allows the wood to be bent more easily, and when it dries out the ammonia > evaps leaving the wood in more stress free condition, i.e. the bends more > permanent, than water alone. Laminated wing tips, hull planking that > requires sharp bends, that sort of thing all work well with this > technique. But I am sure steam or hot water does a reasonable job. I have > done both and can attest to the ammonia technique - curved parts for wing > tips for example barely spring back after drying. I cannot attest to it's > use in homebuilding aircraft, but someday I will build a rib using this > technique and bend and twist it to see if it is sound. > > Mike > > -------- > Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164576#164576 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:52 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tire size Hi Peter, (A fellow Pieter), We started off with 600-6 tires on a set of Azuza wheels, and wore the tires out and put 800-6 tires on the same wheels. It lands a little better on the rough stuff, and just about the same on pavement. I thought it looked like it had monster truck tires on it when we first put the 800's on but after looking at pictures with the 600's on it looks much better with the 800's. Shad NX92GB Hi Guys, I am thinking of changing my wire spoked wheels for normal aircraft type wheels. What tires sizes are you guys using? 15-6.00x6 or 8.00x6? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com 16/02/2008 2:16 PM 16/02/2008 2:16 PM --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:58 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tire size Peter Depends on how much flying you are going to be doing in that rugged outback. I went with 8.00x6 on Matco wheels since I want to be able to land in an open field if I need to and it looks great (but haven't flown with them yet). Rick On Feb 17, 2008 1:23 AM, Peter W Johnson wrote: > *Hi Guys,* > > * * > > *I am thinking of changing my wire spoked wheels for normal aircraft type wheels. What tires sizes are you guys using? 15-6.00x6 or 8.00x6?* > > * * > > *Cheers* > > * * > > *Peter* > > *Wonthaggi Australia* > > *http://www.cpc-world.com* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > > 16/02/2008 2:16 PM > > 16/02/2008 2:16 PM > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:43 PM PST US From: kmordecai001@comcast.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A-75 Prop Oscar & Mike, This mirrors my experience with an A-75 and a Hegy 72 x 42 prop. Fresh A-75, rebuilt Stromberg (yes, it's exactly the same as the A-65), new mags, etc, in other words, a strong A-75. Other than what y'all mentioned below, the only other internal difference is greater piston to cylinder clearance. Pulled about 2150 static and about 2200 in a 50 mph climb on a cool day, maybe 50rpm less on a hot day. At WOT it would pull 2400 rpm in level flight at 600 ft about sea level in cool weather (2J0 is about 10' above sea level). A perfect A-65 prop, but about 250-300 rpm low for an A-75. This prompted me to buy a 73 x 39 from Clark at Performance Propellers. It was a prop he had made for his Cub, for hot, high density altitude conditions with a passenger. On a hot day it pulls 2500+ in a 50 mph climb, and 2600 in cool weather. It's really too much of a climb prop for cool weather, but perfect for hot weather, which is what we have most of the year. It's also a real work of art. 54 laminations of hard maple, thinner than the Hegy in profile, but thicker and larger thru the hub. The difference was AMAZING. Climbs out like my neighbor's Cub with a C-85 (well, almost), and seems to be much smoother and happier cruising at 2400-2450 and 62-65 mph at about half-throttle, whereas before it was 2150 (rated cruise for an A-65) and maybe 2/3 throttle for 67-72 mph. I'm referring to actual throttle movement here. I thought about installing a vacuum guage to see just how much throttle I'm really giving it, but then came to my senses (Hey, it's a Pietenpol! not a Cessna!). I may trim the Hegy a bit (71 x 42, or 70 x 42...) and see if I can make it act like something in between the two, maybe 2400 in climbout and 2600 at WOT, to get back a little cruise speed. Then again, it's not about speed anyway, is it? :-) Dave Mordecai NX520SF Panacea, FL > MikeD wrote- > > >The torque curves are very close up to A65 rpm levels and if you load it the > same > >it will perform about the same. You need to load it so that it reaches it's > higher > >cruise/max rpm to produce full power, therefore you need less load than a 65. > > Correct. The torque curves should be more than just very close... they should > be exactly the same because the A75 is the same engine as the A65. The rods are > drilled to provide more oil at the higher rated RPM and the pistons are > different > (waffle pattern on the underside or some such thing), plus a few minor > tweaks, but they are one and the same engine. I've looked at the Continental > specs for the carb venturi for the two engines (when using the NA-S3A1) and it > is unclear but I believe they both use the 1-1/4" venturi, too. > > Bottom line is that if I put my Hegy 72x42 prop on the A75 it will perform > exactly > like my A65 and I'll never see the additional 10HP because I won't be able > to crank it up to 2600 RPM to get full rated 75HP out of it. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Oscar & Mike,
This mirrors my experience with an A-75 and a Hegy 72 x 42 prop.  Fresh A-75, rebuilt Stromberg (yes, it's exactly the same as the A-65), new mags, etc, in other words, a strong A-75.  Other than what y'all mentioned below, the only other internal difference is greater piston to cylinder clearance.
Pulled about 2150 static and about 2200 in a 50 mph climb on a cool day, maybe 50rpm less on a hot day. At WOT it would pull 2400 rpm in level flight at 600 ft about sea level in cool weather (2J0 is about 10' above sea level).  A perfect A-65 prop, but about 250-300 rpm low for an A-75.
   This prompted me to buy a 73 x 39 from Clark at Performance Propellers.  It was a prop he had made for his Cub, for hot,  high density altitude conditions with a passenger.  On a hot day it pulls 2500+ in a 50 mph climb, and 2600 in cool weather.  It's really too much of a climb prop for cool weather, but  perfect for hot weather, which is what we have most of the year.  It's also a real work of art. 54 laminations of hard maple, thinner than the Hegy in profile, but thicker and larger thru the hub.
  The difference was AMAZING.  Climbs out like my neighbor's Cub with a C-85 (well, almost), and seems to be much smoother and happier cruising at 2400-2450 and 62-65 mph at about half-throttle, whereas before it was 2150 (rated cruise for an A-65) and maybe 2/3 throttle for 67-72 mph. I'm referring to actual throttle movement here. I thought about installing a vacuum guage to see just how much throttle I'm really giving it, but then came to my senses (Hey, it's a Pietenpol! not a Cessna!).
I may trim the Hegy a bit (71 x 42, or 70 x 42...) and see if I can make it  act like something in between the two, maybe 2400 in climbout and 2600 at WOT, to get back a little cruise speed.  Then again, it's not about speed anyway, is it?  :-)
 
Dave Mordecai
NX520SF
Panacea, FL
 
 
 
> MikeD wrote-
>
> >The torque curves are very close up to A65 rpm levels and if you load it the
> same
> >it will perform about the same. You need to load it so that it reaches it's
> higher
> >cruise/max rpm to produce full power, therefore you need less load than a 65.
>
> Correct. The torque curves should be more than just very close... they should
> be exactly the same because the A75 is the same engine as the A65. The rods are
> drilled to provide more oil at the higher rated RPM and the pistons are
> different
> (waffle pattern on the underside or some such thing), plus a few minor
> tweaks, but they are one and the same engine. I've looked at the Continental
> specs for the carb venturi for the two engines (when using the NA-S3A1) and it
> is unclear but I believe they both use the 1-1/4" venturi, too.
>
> Bottom line is that if I put my He gy 72x42 prop on the A75 it will perform
> exactly
> like my A65 and I'll never see the additional 10HP because I won't be able
> to crank it up to 2600 RPM to get full rated 75HP out of it.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:39 PM PST US From: "Bob Hassel" Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Member I've just been bitten by the Piet bug. I'm waiting a few years to start on a Velocity and just got bored when viola! I actually saw the video on the EAA website celebrating 70 years of Pietenpol's then started cruising the web. It wasn't until later that I realized my as of yet unread EAA mag was collecting dust with a great Piet article in it. I have yet to buy plans or really scan this email list. Is there any place a newbie can go for a general list of recommendations? Are the plan additions worth it? I was thinking of the foot extension (I'm a little on the heavy side and tall), I was also thinking of the full scale wing rib drawing, putting in a front door to make it easier for the boss, 3 part wing. Any recommendations, directions and/or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. I'm located in Santa Fe, NM. I've never actually seen, sat in or flown in a Piet. I had started a Cozy MK IV (composite canard) and the emp section of an RV9 in the past before deciding to head off in my current direction. Thanks, Bob Bob Hassel Santa Fe, NM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:36 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tire size Thank Guys, a set of 8.00 x 6 is on order. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/" \nhttp://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Monday, 18 February 2008 5:45 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tire size Peter Depends on how much flying you are going to be doing in that rugged outback. I went with 8.00x6 on Matco wheels since I want to be able to land in an open field if I need to and it looks great (but haven't flown with them yet). Rick On Feb 17, 2008 1:23 AM, Peter W Johnson wrote: Hi Guys, I am thinking of changing my wire spoked wheels for normal aircraft type wheels. What tires sizes are you guys using? 15-6.00x6 or 8.00x6? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/" \nhttp://www.cpc-world.com Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado 2:16 PM 2:16 PM ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Capstrip steaming From: "jhubbard" I too, have used the "ammonia technique" with boat models and RC airplanes. I've always wondered whether or not this weakened the wood to such a degree that would make it unsafe in a full-scale airplane or perhaps some other reason that others don't typically use this practice. I've got to assume that since this is a common technique in model building, and since most homebuilders have some modeling background, the fact that it's use in homebuilts seems rare indicates that there's something we don't know. BTW, rather than water mixed with ammonia, I've always just used Windex. Spray it directly on the wood and it works great. Does anyone have any reason this souldn't be used in homebuilding? -------- "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164677#164677 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie with the usual annoying questions From: "jhubbard" Ok fellas, I'm brand new to this list, but am VERY impressed by the level of support and participation on this particular forum. I've long considered building a Piet for all the usual reasons (all-wood, wallet friendly, nostalgic, etc), but since I live near Boulder, Colorado, where the average 85 degree summer day brings the density altitude slightly north of 8000 feet, I've wondered about it's performance on any day that isn't crystal clear and 50 degrees. I understand the engine options are numerous, and I would like to get some real-world feedback on the performance up in the thinner air for given engine/prop choices. I'm specifically concerned with Rate of Climb and Takeoff Roll specs. I also notice that there are at least a couple builders in Co. area, and am wondering if your birds are flying, or still...ummm....in the nest. Thanks for all your help. Jeff -------- "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164682#164682 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:51 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Member Hey Bob Welcome to the Pietenpol clan, I am in Castle Rock CO, and little South of Denver. You can come by any time if you make it up North sometime. Thats quite a leap from a Velocity to a Pietenpol (kind of like going out to buy a new 2008 Corvette Z06 and coming home with a Model T) but it sure will be cheaper and easier. I am building a long fuselage Piet with a Corvair.andthree piece wing (which is how most people build their wings). Flying out of a higher altitude like me you probably will need more than a C-65 for an engine (as most people use), but their are lots of options. The best place for recommendations and ideas are the archives of this newsgroup. Here are my standard newbe recommendations: - Order the basic and three piece wing plans (maybe long fuse plans) from Don Pietenpol (full size rib plans aren't needed IMO) - Join up with the nearest EAA chapter (can find list of all of them at www.eaa.org) - Order all four Tony Bingelis books (off EAA site) - Order the Mike Cuy Piet DVD and watch multiple times - If you can attend the next Pietenpol flyin at Broadhead WI the weekend before Oshkosh to see lots of Piets and builders - Order read Chet Peeks excellent "The Pietenpo Story" book (search Chet Peek in the archives for address), I just finished reading it for the third time last week. You will find this newsgroup to be the friendliest and most helpful on the web. Rick On Feb 17, 2008 2:27 PM, Bob Hassel wrote: > I've just been bitten by the Piet bug. I'm waiting a few years to start > on a Velocity and just got bored when viola! I actually saw the video on > the EAA website celebrating 70 years of Pietenpol's then started cruising > the web. It wasn't until later that I realized my as of yet unread EAA mag > was collecting dust with a great Piet article in it. > > > I have yet to buy plans or really scan this email list. Is there any > place a newbie can go for a general list of recommendations? Are the plan > additions worth it? I was thinking of the foot extension (I'm a little on > the heavy side and tall), I was also thinking of the full scale wing rib > drawing, putting in a front door to make it easier for the boss, 3 part > wing. > > > Any recommendations, directions and/or suggestions would be gratefully > appreciated. > > > I'm located in Santa Fe, NM. I've never actually seen, sat in or flown in > a Piet. I had started a Cozy MK IV (composite canard) and the emp section > of an RV9 in the past before deciding to head off in my current direction. > > > Thanks, > > > Bob > > > Bob Hassel > > Santa Fe, NM > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:59 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie with the usual annoying questions Hey Jeff I am down in Castle Rock CO and asked the same questions when starting my Piet project. Density altitudes at my airport East of Colorado Springs on a 95 degree day will be around 10,000 ft. I learned to fly and instructed in Cessna 150s at Jeffco airport near Boulder on 95 degree days with over 200 lb students and the 100 HP O-200s in those got us up high enough at least to do stall practice. Thats a 1000 lb empty (but cleaner) aircraft so I figured a 100 HP in a 700 lb or so Pietenpol should be enough. Can't say for sure till it flys however. If you want to come down and see my project (long fuselage Piet/Corvair) let me know. Rick On Feb 17, 2008 4:38 PM, jhubbard wrote: > > Ok fellas, > I'm brand new to this list, but am VERY impressed by the level of support > and participation on this particular forum. I've long considered building a > Piet for all the usual reasons (all-wood, wallet friendly, nostalgic, etc), > but since I live near Boulder, Colorado, where the average 85 degree summer > day brings the density altitude slightly north of 8000 feet, I've wondered > about it's performance on any day that isn't crystal clear and 50 degrees. > I understand the engine options are numerous, and I would like to get some > real-world feedback on the performance up in the thinner air for given > engine/prop choices. I'm specifically concerned with Rate of Climb and > Takeoff Roll specs. I also notice that there are at least a couple builders > in Co. area, and am wondering if your birds are flying, or > still...ummm....in the nest. Thanks for all your help. > Jeff > > -------- > "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no > boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got > together. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164682#164682 > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise From: "quinn" It must be newbie day. I just spent an hour going over current and past e-mails, amazing. I do have my first question though. I'm setting up my rib jig and am confused on how the trailing edge finishes. Is it simply squared off with the capstrips ? What about the wedge material, size ? Does anyone have a picture and/or advise ? Thanks, Jim Q. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164690#164690 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A-75 Prop From: "MikeD" That's the first bona-fide A75 prop information I've had come back - thank you! It reinforces everything I was thinking about so far. Very helpful. - Mike -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164691#164691 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:46 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions From: "jhubbard" I think I dropped you a PM, but I'm not sure. I'd love to see your project, but my work travels keep me away most of the time. I'm actually working in the DTC area over the next couple weeks, so maybe we can hook up at some point then. We should talk more offline. -------- "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164699#164699 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:51 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise Jim Don't worry about it until all your ribs are finished, just leave the capstrip extended an inch or two beyond where the rib will end when finished. Then you can clamp all your ribs together and cut the trailing edges square all at once (and even up the leading edges of all the ribs as well). I assume the "wedge" you are refering to is the trailing edge piece that runs the full length of the wing. It is shown on page 5 of the plans as a 1 1/4" wide strip of wood. Mike Cuy just posted his solution to this a day or two ago, he use a piece of Home Depot Fir trim molding ripped to the wedge shape. You can find his picture of this on the archives. Good luck Rick On Feb 17, 2008 5:17 PM, quinn wrote: > > It must be newbie day. I just spent an hour going over current and past > e-mails, amazing. I do have my first question though. I'm setting up my rib > jig and am confused on how the trailing edge finishes. Is it simply squared > off with the capstrips ? What about the wedge material, size ? Does anyone > have a picture and/or advise ? > > Thanks, > > Jim Q. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164690#164690 > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:17 PM PST US From: "Bob Hassel" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Member Rick, et al, Thanks! Yeah here in Santa Fe our pattern altitude is about 7200 ft. I found someone flying a Piet on the web up the road in Salida Co with a turbo Subie! Thanks for the tips! I started an RV9 when I was in Dallas and life/move put that on hold, then I started a Cozy Mk IV but decided to wait until I could build a Velocity. Now while I'm waiting I'll build a Piet! I like the idea that it's a series of simple systems, affordable, affordable and of course affordable. It'll be nice to try something fun, classic and did I saw affordable before I start a cruise-mobile. Thanks! Bob http://www.hassel-usa.com (RV9 emp build) http://www.cozyworld.net (Cozy Mk IV start) http:/?????? (Piet build) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 4:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Member Hey Bob Welcome to the Pietenpol clan, I am in Castle Rock CO, and little South of Denver. You can come by any time if you make it up North sometime. Thats quite a leap from a Velocity to a Pietenpol (kind of like going out to buy a new 2008 Corvette Z06 and coming home with a Model T) but it sure will be cheaper and easier. I am building a long fuselage Piet with a Corvair.and three piece wing (which is how most people build their wings). Flying out of a higher altitude like me you probably will need more than a C-65 for an engine (as most people use), but their are lots of options. The best place for recommendations and ideas are the archives of this newsgroup. Here are my standard newbe recommendations: - Order the basic and three piece wing plans (maybe long fuse plans) from Don Pietenpol (full size rib plans aren't needed IMO) - Join up with the nearest EAA chapter (can find list of all of them at www.eaa.org) - Order all four Tony Bingelis books (off EAA site) - Order the Mike Cuy Piet DVD and watch multiple times - If you can attend the next Pietenpol flyin at Broadhead WI the weekend before Oshkosh to see lots of Piets and builders - Order read Chet Peeks excellent "The Pietenpo Story" book (search Chet Peek in the archives for address), I just finished reading it for the third time last week. You will find this newsgroup to be the friendliest and most helpful on the web. Rick On Feb 17, 2008 2:27 PM, Bob Hassel wrote: I've just been bitten by the Piet bug. I'm waiting a few years to start on a Velocity and just got bored when viola! I actually saw the video on the EAA website celebrating 70 years of Pietenpol's then started cruising the web. It wasn't until later that I realized my as of yet unread EAA mag was collecting dust with a great Piet article in it. I have yet to buy plans or really scan this email list. Is there any place a newbie can go for a general list of recommendations? Are the plan additions worth it? I was thinking of the foot extension (I'm a little on the heavy side and tall), I was also thinking of the full scale wing rib drawing, putting in a front door to make it easier for the boss, 3 part wing. Any recommendations, directions and/or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. I'm located in Santa Fe, NM. I've never actually seen, sat in or flown in a Piet. I had started a Cozy MK IV (composite canard) and the emp section of an RV9 in the past before deciding to head off in my current direction. Thanks, Bob Bob Hassel Santa Fe, NM -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:07 PM PST US From: "Jim Quinn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise Thank Rick, that will make life simpler. I'll catch Mike's picture too. I e-mailed him about that DVD you mentioned in your other post. Thanks again, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise Jim Don't worry about it until all your ribs are finished, just leave the capstrip extended an inch or two beyond where the rib will end when finished. Then you can clamp all your ribs together and cut the trailing edges square all at once (and even up the leading edges of all the ribs as well). I assume the "wedge" you are refering to is the trailing edge piece that runs the full length of the wing. It is shown on page 5 of the plans as a 1 1/4" wide strip of wood. Mike Cuy just posted his solution to this a day or two ago, he use a piece of Home Depot Fir trim molding ripped to the wedge shape. You can find his picture of this on the archives. Good luck Rick On Feb 17, 2008 5:17 PM, quinn wrote: It must be newbie day. I just spent an hour going over current and past e-mails, amazing. I do have my first question though. I'm setting up my rib jig and am confused on how the trailing edge finishes. Is it simply squared off with the capstrips ? What about the wedge material, size ? Does anyone have a picture and/or advise ? Thanks, Jim Q. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164690#164690 -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:42 PM PST US From: "Glenn Thomas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise Hi Jim, Here's how I did my ribs. http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=8&filter=0 One of these days I'll push a piece of spar through them, and sand the trailing and leading edges flush while they're all together like Rick said. Getting started is the hardest part. Welcome to the group. On 2/17/08, quinn wrote: > > > It must be newbie day. I just spent an hour going over current and past > e-mails, amazing. I do have my first question though. I'm setting up my rib > jig and am confused on how the trailing edge finishes. Is it simply squared > off with the capstrips ? What about the wedge material, size ? Does anyone > have a picture and/or advise ? > > Thanks, > > Jim Q. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164690#164690 > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:26 PM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Question for Grega buliders/owners Jeff, Felix my GN-1 has 3 bolts coming up thorough the aft wooden cross member, the one where the aft legs of the LG hits the lower longerons. I believe they come through the steel channel, can't tell for sure because the bottom of the fuse is covered with fabric so you can't see the channels. The front wooden corss member has 2 bolts coming up through it, one on each side. The plans show 3 holes in each of the steel channels. Skip > [Original Message] > From: Jeff Boatright > To: > Date: 2/17/2008 9:25:14 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for Grega buliders/owners > > > The Grega landing gear has steel channels on the that run across the > bottom side of the fuselage from longeron to longeron. These channels > are welded to the wing strut fittings. > > Does anyone know if bolts run vertically through this channel and up > through the wooden crossmembers on the top side of the fuselage > floor? That is, how are the steel channels held to the fuselage? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > -- > --- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Editor-in-Chief > Molecular Vision > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:23 PM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tire size Peter, Just wondering why are you thinking of changing away from spoked wheels? I have 8.00 X 4 on Felix the GN-1 which I like, but going to use 21" spokes wheels on the Piet I'm building. Skip Hi Guys, I am thinking of changing my wire spoked wheels for normal aircraft type wheels. What tires sizes are you guys using? 15-6.00x6 or 8.00x6? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Capstrip steaming From: "MikeD" alyscars(at)verizon.net wrote: > Gents, > > With regard to the "ammonia treatment" can anyone give a ratio of household > ammonia to water to me? > > Thanks, > > Al > --- 1. I recall reading advice to use somewhere around 2:1 to 3:1. 2. Oddly, bringing this subject up today caused me to google it, having never done so in the past - it's been a while since I used this technique (ammonia water for those that don't know is an ammonium hydroxide solution, very alkaline, which is created by when ammonia is dissolved in water: H2O + NH3 NH4OH). I found references sugesting it does nothing more than water and that you had to use anhydrous ammonia to have any effect. Yet.. when I've used ammonia water with strip balsa and light hardwoods, I swear it made a whole pile of difference. I guess when I have a half hour with nothing else to do, and I remember to do so, I should do some side by side comparisons under controlled conditions, or as controlled as I can practically make them. Anything I have read on ammonia and wood, indicates that there is no sacrifice in properties once the extra water and ammonia has dried/evaporated out - it softens the lignin and has an effect on the cellulose as well, allowing them to be deformed like hot plastic. When it is gone, the wood is back to what it was, albeit in a different shape. Mike -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164739#164739 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:58 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tire size Skip, That is a good question. I find the wire spoke wheels do more than anything else to add to the "ramp appeal" of the Pietenpol. Peter must have a good reason. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Gadd To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tire size Peter, Just wondering why are you thinking of changing away from spoked wheels? I have 8.00 X 4 on Felix the GN-1 which I like, but going to use 21" spokes wheels on the Piet I'm building. Skip Hi Guys, I am thinking of changing my wire spoked wheels for normal aircraft type wheels. What tires sizes are you guys using? 15-6.00x6 or 8.00x6? Cheers PeterWonthaggi Australiahttp://www.cpc-world.com ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:09 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Question for Grega buliders/owners Skip, Thanks much. The ancient set of Grega plans that we have show various approaches - some figures show bolts, others don't! On your front crossmember, about where are the two bolts? Out towards the longerons or more--or-less dividing the crossmember into 3 equal spans? Thanks, Jeff > >Jeff, >Felix my GN-1 has 3 bolts coming up thorough the aft wooden cross member, >the one where the aft legs of the LG hits the lower longerons. I believe >they come through the steel channel, can't tell for sure because the bottom >of the fuse is covered with fabric so you can't see the channels. The >front wooden corss member has 2 bolts coming up through it, one on each >side. The plans show 3 holes in each of the steel channels. >Skip > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Jeff Boatright >> To: >> Date: 2/17/2008 9:25:14 AM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for Grega buliders/owners >> >> >> The Grega landing gear has steel channels on the that run across the >> bottom side of the fuselage from longeron to longeron. These channels >> are welded to the wing strut fittings. >> >> Does anyone know if bolts run vertically through this channel and up >> through the wooden crossmembers on the top side of the fuselage >> floor? That is, how are the steel channels held to the fuselage? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jeff >> -- > > --- ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:59 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Long Fuse Rick, I have Piet plans. How do I know if they are for the long version.if not, what changes are made? Gary Boothe Cool, CA _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Member Hey Bob Welcome to the Pietenpol clan, I am in Castle Rock CO, and little South of Denver. You can come by any time if you make it up North sometime. Thats quite a leap from a Velocity to a Pietenpol (kind of like going out to buy a new 2008 Corvette Z06 and coming home with a Model T) but it sure will be cheaper and easier. I am building a long fuselage Piet with a Corvair.and three piece wing (which is how most people build their wings). Flying out of a higher altitude like me you probably will need more than a C-65 for an engine (as most people use), but their are lots of options. The best place for recommendations and ideas are the archives of this newsgroup. Here are my standard newbe recommendations: - Order the basic and three piece wing plans (maybe long fuse plans) from Don Pietenpol (full size rib plans aren't needed IMO) - Join up with the nearest EAA chapter (can find list of all of them at www.eaa.org) - Order all four Tony Bingelis books (off EAA site) - Order the Mike Cuy Piet DVD and watch multiple times - If you can attend the next Pietenpol flyin at Broadhead WI the weekend before Oshkosh to see lots of Piets and builders - Order read Chet Peeks excellent "The Pietenpo Story" book (search Chet Peek in the archives for address), I just finished reading it for the third time last week. You will find this newsgroup to be the friendliest and most helpful on the web. Rick On Feb 17, 2008 2:27 PM, Bob Hassel wrote: I've just been bitten by the Piet bug. I'm waiting a few years to start on a Velocity and just got bored when viola! I actually saw the video on the EAA website celebrating 70 years of Pietenpol's then started cruising the web. It wasn't until later that I realized my as of yet unread EAA mag was collecting dust with a great Piet article in it. I have yet to buy plans or really scan this email list. Is there any place a newbie can go for a general list of recommendations? Are the plan additions worth it? I was thinking of the foot extension (I'm a little on the heavy side and tall), I was also thinking of the full scale wing rib drawing, putting in a front door to make it easier for the boss, 3 part wing. Any recommendations, directions and/or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. I'm located in Santa Fe, NM. I've never actually seen, sat in or flown in a Piet. I had started a Cozy MK IV (composite canard) and the emp section of an RV9 in the past before deciding to head off in my current direction. Thanks, Bob Bob Hassel Santa Fe, NM -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. 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