Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - Re: Re: prop for A75 ()
2. 04:56 AM - Re: Wider Fuselage (HelsperSew@aol.com)
3. 05:26 AM - Re: Wider Fuselage (Roman Bukolt)
4. 05:56 AM - Re: Wider Fuselage (Phillips, Jack)
5. 06:45 AM - Re: Wider Fuselage (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
6. 06:51 AM - Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage (mwhuffnagle)
7. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
8. 08:13 AM - Fuselage Longerons (TBYH@aol.com)
9. 08:19 AM - Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (Steve Eldredge)
10. 08:50 AM - Introducing Myself (G. Robert Stetson)
11. 08:50 AM - Tapered Spar Scare (Brown Gravy)
12. 09:24 AM - Re: Introducing Myself (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
13. 09:28 AM - Re: Introducing Myself (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
14. 09:33 AM - Re: prop for A75 (MikeD)
15. 09:35 AM - Piets with A-75's (MikeD)
16. 09:57 AM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Ryan Mueller)
17. 10:04 AM - Re: Introducing Myself (Rick Holland)
18. 10:04 AM - Re: Introducing Myself (Glenn Thomas)
19. 10:11 AM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Rick Holland)
20. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Introducing Myself (Rick Holland)
21. 10:19 AM - Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (Rick Holland)
22. 10:30 AM - Bailing out of a 601 (Gary Boothe)
23. 11:01 AM - new builders----absorbtion mode (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
24. 11:12 AM - Re: Bailing out of a 601 (Rick Holland)
25. 12:13 PM - Re: new builders----absorbtion mode (Ryan Mueller)
26. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: prop for A75 (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
27. 12:44 PM - having support at home & the books every builder should have (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
28. 01:06 PM - which is older ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
29. 01:09 PM - Re: having support at home & the books every builder should h... (HelsperSew@aol.com)
30. 01:22 PM - Re: which is older ? (Bill Church)
31. 01:36 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Brown Gravy)
32. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: Tapered Spar Scare (HelsperSew@aol.com)
33. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: Tapered Spar Scare ()
34. 02:11 PM - New guy jig question (chase143)
35. 02:13 PM - Re: Spam> Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Jack T. Textor)
36. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Phillips, Jack)
37. 02:38 PM - Re: Spam> Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Rick Holland)
38. 02:38 PM - Re: New guy jig question (Bill Church)
39. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage (gliderx5@comcast.net)
40. 03:02 PM - Re: Runny glue joints (HelsperSew@aol.com)
41. 03:10 PM - Re: New guy jig question (Glenn Thomas)
42. 03:33 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Don Emch)
43. 03:36 PM - Re: Bailing out of a 601, save the Corvair engine (shad bell)
44. 03:41 PM - Re: Another newbie looking for advise (Jim Quinn)
45. 03:53 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Brown Gravy)
46. 03:56 PM - Re: Spam> Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Jack T. Textor)
47. 04:34 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (MikeD)
48. 05:08 PM - Re: Built-up Spars [Was: Re: Tapered Spar Scare} (Owen Davies)
49. 05:22 PM - Re: Runny glue joints (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
50. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
51. 05:34 PM - Re: Built-up Spars [Was: Re: Tapered Spar Scare} (Peter W Johnson)
52. 05:58 PM - Re: Introducing Myself (Bob Hassel)
53. 06:03 PM - Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (jhubbard)
54. 06:10 PM - Re: Introducing Myself (jhubbard)
55. 07:04 PM - Re: Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (Rick Holland)
56. 07:12 PM - Re: New guy jig question (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
57. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (Dick Navratil)
58. 07:34 PM - Re: Built-up Spars [Was: Re: Tapered Spar Scare} (Owen Davies)
59. 07:54 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Brown Gravy)
60. 08:45 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (gcardinal)
61. 08:48 PM - New Finished Fuel Tank (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
62. 08:49 PM - More photos of Fuel tank (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
63. 08:59 PM - Re: New guy jig question (chase143)
64. 09:03 PM - McCaslin Field Fly-In & Lunch, February 23rd, Slaughterville, OK (Steve Ruse)
65. 09:13 PM - Re: new builders----absorbtion mode (gcardinal)
66. 09:45 PM - Re: Re: New guy jig question (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
67. 11:26 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: prop for A75 |
The cruise rpm is about 2100 and the max is 2500,thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MikeD
Sent: February 15, 2008 9:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop for A75
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote:
> I've been using a 72 X 42 on my 80 hp Franklin.I was always wondering
if
> I could use something that could give me more gas milage.(maybe even
> more speed)I seem to go through the gas quite quickly but then that
> could be because I have the carb set for rich.I was told this is the
> best for low altitude flying.Adjust when flying over 3000 ft.I very
> seldom get over 3000.I like the view at low and slow.
>
> --
The horsepower rating alone will not dictate the prop choice. What are
the cruise and max rpm for that engine? 72-42 is larger than anything
listed for use with an A75. You can use it on an A65, but cruise/max rpm
is lower. If you put it on an A75, but you'll see about 65hp max out of
it. The torque curves are very close up to A65 rpm levels and if you
load it the same it will perform about the same. You need to load it so
that it reaches it's higher cruise/max rpm to produce full power,
therefore you need less load than a 65.
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164354#164354
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Subject: | Re: Wider Fuselage |
Hi Guys,
I did not soak my longerons before bending the fuse sides. I am curious how
many did or didn't?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Subject: | Re: Wider Fuselage |
With all the cross members in place, It took me very little effort to
pull the lower longerons into place in my jig. No steam, no soaking,
and no cracking. No problem.
Roman Bukolt NX20795
On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:54 AM, HelsperSew@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I did not soak my longerons before bending the fuse sides. I am
> curious how many did or didn't?
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on
> AOL Living.
>
>
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I did not. I did soak the lower longerons before constructing the
fuselage sides, but did not soak anything before gluing the two sides
together.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wider Fuselage
Hi Guys,
I did not soak my longerons before bending the fuse sides. I am curious
how many did or didn't?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campo
s-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>
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orsk - Portuguese
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Subject: | Re: Wider Fuselage |
I had a similar experience.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Subject: | Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage |
Thanks for the responses guys! It's really been impressive and reassuring to see
such quick and detailed replies. I really appreciate it. If anybody else
wants to send info about their experience, that'll continue to be helpful.
I'm located in Mechanicsburg, PA which is in south central Penna and is a suburb
of Harrisburg. I'd love to know how to contact fellow Piet builders in the
region.
Thanks again,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165013#165013
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Subject: | Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage |
In a message dated 2/19/2008 9:52:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mwhuffnagle@gmail.com writes:
:
Mike,
I am in Lititz PA, 8 miles north of Lancaster and 3 miles north of LNS.
John
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 8
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Subject: | Fuselage Longerons |
No need to soak the lower fuselage longerons...just bend 'em slowly into
place. Don't overbend. They'll be just fine and will "take" the bend once they've
been secured, glued and have sat a while.
Fred B.
(Took a day off to work on the Piet today -- kids are gone and wife went to
work. It's just me and the Piet at the house!)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 9
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Subject: | Newbie with the usual annoying questions |
I've flown my Piet from a 4500'alt for 10 years. I too learned to fly at Jefco
(I don't care what they call it now... Metro blah blah...). If flown solo,
density altitude is not a problem with 65hp. (my ship weighted 626lbs) I weigh
about 225 and enjoyed adequate performance even on hot days. I wished or 100hp
whenever I took a passenger more than a child's weight. (except when I was
at Brodhead (elevation 600' or so) -the air is really thick!)
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jhubbard
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie with the usual annoying questions
Ok fellas,
I'm brand new to this list, but am VERY impressed by the level of support and participation
on this particular forum. I've long considered building a Piet for
all the usual reasons (all-wood, wallet friendly, nostalgic, etc), but since
I live near Boulder, Colorado, where the average 85 degree summer day brings
the density altitude slightly north of 8000 feet, I've wondered about it's performance
on any day that isn't crystal clear and 50 degrees. I understand the
engine options are numerous, and I would like to get some real-world feedback
on the performance up in the thinner air for given engine/prop choices. I'm
specifically concerned with Rate of Climb and Takeoff Roll specs. I also notice
that there are at least a couple builders in Co. area, and am wondering if
your birds are flying, or still...ummm....in the nest. Thanks for all your help.
Jeff
--------
"One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at
all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164682#164682
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Subject: | Introducing Myself |
Fellow Builders:
By way of introducing myself, my name is Bob Stetson and I am just
getting started on the construction of an Air Camper. It is something
that I have had in the back of my head for 15 years. The cover story in
the February issue of Sport Aviation was the incentive I needed to get
me started. When I saw Dick Navratil's airplane, I fell in love.
There are a number of factors leading to my decision. (1) I own and
manage Marlboro Airport in Marlborough, MA and have some time on my
hands, considering that I am here seven days a week from 7:00 AM until
sunset. At least. (2) My 87 year old Father is here 7 days a week and
one of my duties is to keep him busy. What better choice than to put
him to work building an airplane. There are other factors, too but
those are the primary ones.
I am interested in knowing if there other Pietenpol builders in the
area. If so, please check in with me via e-mail and let yourselves be
known to me.
Keep 'em flyin and wish me luck.
Bob Stetson
Message 11
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Subject: | Tapered Spar Scare |
Hello Everybody
It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've been reading
the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering the top of the
spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered me. I'm concerned
that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of compression forces at
the tip of the taper and result to failure of the spar. Has anyone done an analysis
of the tapered spars?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165034#165034
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Subject: | Re: Introducing Myself |
Welcome Bob,
I can find no better way to spend time than building my Piet, some times its
about the destination and some times its about the journey and when you
build a Piet it becomes both no matter what side you start on.
John Recine
Lititz PA
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Subject: | Introducing Myself |
Welcome to the list, Bob !
You sound like you're ready to get started and that is great that your
Dad is healthy enough at 87 to
come out to the airport everyday with you. Excellent. The list is
made up of a good group of guys
from private pilots, non-pilots who are builders, up to anything and
everything as far as backgrounds.
It is a long process to hand-build a plans-built airplane but this group
can encourage you and keep
you informed along the way---or give you some ideas to mull over as you
build to decide what works best
for you.
Mike C.
Ohio
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Subject: | Re: prop for A75 |
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote:
> The cruise rpm is about 2100 and the max is 2500,thanks.
>
> --
Thanks. That's 200-300 more than an A-65 or A-75 will do on the same prop AFAIK.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165045#165045
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Subject: | Piets with A-75's |
Hi,
We were talking Piets and A-75's in the other thread about props, so for those
that didn't read it I would sure be interested to hear from anyone else flying
the 75 in a Piet, and what you have to say about it.
Thanks in advance,
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165046#165046
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
I would think that whatever force there is would be spread over the capstrip and
thusly over the top of the spar, whatever the angle. Either way...
Let's say you were concerned about the concentration of stress at the top corner
of that edge on the spar. If you decided to leave the top of the spar flat and
use a wedge, wouldn't the top corner of that wedge still transmit that concentration
of force in the same manner as the beveled spar?
Ryan
Hello Everybody
It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've been reading
the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering the top of the
spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered me. I'm concerned
that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of compression forces at
the tip of the taper and result to failure of the spar. Has anyone done an analysis
of the tapered spars?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165034#165034
---------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: Introducing Myself |
Welcome Bob
I was wondering why their has been sudden explosion of new people on this
group thinking or planning on getting started on a Pietenpol project and you
made me realize that it coincided with Dick's Sport Aviation article. You
have the best reason I have heard for starting a Pietenpol project, working
at an airport everyday and having an able-bodied assistant available to help
(and I assume some hanger space to work in).
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 9:47 AM, G. Robert Stetson <gr.stetson@verizon.net> wrote:
> gr.stetson@verizon.net>
>
> Fellow Builders:
>
> By way of introducing myself, my name is Bob Stetson and I am just
> getting started on the construction of an Air Camper. It is something
> that I have had in the back of my head for 15 years. The cover story in
> the February issue of Sport Aviation was the incentive I needed to get
> me started. When I saw Dick Navratil's airplane, I fell in love.
>
> There are a number of factors leading to my decision. (1) I own and
> manage Marlboro Airport in Marlborough, MA and have some time on my
> hands, considering that I am here seven days a week from 7:00 AM until
> sunset. At least. (2) My 87 year old Father is here 7 days a week and
> one of my duties is to keep him busy. What better choice than to put
> him to work building an airplane. There are other factors, too but
> those are the primary ones.
>
> I am interested in knowing if there other Pietenpol builders in the
> area. If so, please check in with me via e-mail and let yourselves be
> known to me.
>
> Keep 'em flyin and wish me luck.
>
> Bob Stetson
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
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Subject: | Re: Introducing Myself |
Welcome Bob!
I believe you're right on the 495 corridor. I'm in Storrs, CT and in your area
frequently with a son in college in Easton and my company headquartered in Hopkinton.
I've been at it for about 2 years now and have little to show for my
enthusiasm except a set of completed ribs. It will be nice to have a local contact.
We should get together some time.
Take care,
Glenn
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165052#165052
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Good point Ryan, plus is positive G flight most all the forces on the spar
would be ribs pushing upward on the bottom of the spars with the lift struts
and fittings providing the down force to keep the spars where they belong.
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 10:54 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I would think that whatever force there is would be spread over the
> capstrip and thusly over the top of the spar, whatever the angle. Either
> way...
>
> Let's say you were concerned about the concentration of stress at the top
> corner of that edge on the spar. If you decided to leave the top of the spar
> flat and use a wedge, wouldn't the top corner of that wedge still transmit
> that concentration of force in the same manner as the beveled spar?
>
> Ryan
>
> *Brown Gravy <mjs.browngravy@yahoo.com>* wrote:
>
>
> Hello Everybody
>
> It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've
> been reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering the
> top of the spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered me.
> I'm
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
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Subject: | Re: Introducing Myself |
Glenn, you are being modest again, don't forget that great website you put
together. Of course you can't fly a website.
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 11:02 AM, Glenn Thomas <glennthomas@flyingwood.com> wrote:
> glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
>
> Welcome Bob!
> I believe you're right on the 495 corridor. I'm in Storrs, CT and in your
> area frequently with a son in college in Easton and my company headquartered
> in Hopkinton. I've been at it for about 2 years now and have little to show
> for my enthusiasm except a set of completed ribs. It will be nice to have a
> local contact. We should get together some time.
>
> Take care,
> Glenn
>
> --------
> Glenn Thomas
> N?????
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165052#165052
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions |
Good info Steve, so at my 6500 ft. airport a C-75 may even be enough (for
solo at least).
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 9:05 AM, Steve Eldredge <steve@byu.edu> wrote:
>
> I've flown my Piet from a 4500'alt for 10 years. I too learned to fly at
> Jefco (I don't care what they call it now... Metro blah blah...). If flown
> solo, density altitude is not a problem with 65hp. (my ship weighted
> 626lbs) I weigh about 225 and enjoyed adequate performance even on hot
> days. I wished or 100hp whenever I took a passenger more than a child's
> weight. (except when I was at Brodhead (elevation 600' or so) -the air is
> really thick!)
>
> Stevee
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jhubbard
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 4:38 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie with the usual annoying questions
>
>
> Ok fellas,
> I'm brand new to this list, but am VERY impressed by the level of support
> and participation on this particular forum. I've long considered building a
> Piet for all the usual reasons (all-wood, wallet friendly, nostalgic, etc),
> but since I live near Boulder, Colorado, where the average 85 degree summer
> day brings the density altitude slightly north of 8000 feet, I've wondered
> about it's performance on any day that isn't crystal clear and 50 degrees.
> I understand the engine options are numerous, and I would like to get some
> real-world feedback on the performance up in the thinner air for given
> engine/prop choices. I'm specifically concerned with Rate of Climb and
> Takeoff Roll specs. I also notice that there are at least a couple builders
> in Co. area, and am wondering if your birds are flying, or
> still...ummm....in the nest. Thanks for all your help.
> Jeff
>
> --------
> "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no
> boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got
> together.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164682#164682
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 22
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Subject: | Bailing out of a 601 |
Rick,
You are absolutely right about the article in SA being an inspiration. It
got me off my dead a__, to realize I was wasting time on a project that was
un-inspiring to me. I have "bailed" out of my 601 project, have Piet plans
in hand, and am pressing forward, too.
As an introduction to the Group:
I have a WW Corvair conversion that I completed 4 years ago, but got
side-tracked into a Zenith 601. The Pietenpol has been my real dream since
1972, and I feel truly invigorated with my decision.
Hat's off to Bob who has found a way to include his aging father in his
project.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself
Welcome Bob
I was wondering why their has been sudden explosion of new people on this
group thinking or planning on getting started on a Pietenpol project and you
made me realize that it coincided with Dick's Sport Aviation article. You
have the best reason I have heard for starting a Pietenpol project, working
at an airport everyday and having an able-bodied assistant available to help
(and I assume some hanger space to work in).
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 9:47 AM, G. Robert Stetson <gr.stetson@verizon.net> wrote:
<gr.stetson@verizon.net>
Fellow Builders:
By way of introducing myself, my name is Bob Stetson and I am just
getting started on the construction of an Air Camper. It is something
that I have had in the back of my head for 15 years. The cover story in
the February issue of Sport Aviation was the incentive I needed to get
me started. When I saw Dick Navratil's airplane, I fell in love.
There are a number of factors leading to my decision. (1) I own and
manage Marlboro Airport in Marlborough, MA and have some time on my
hands, considering that I am here seven days a week from 7:00 AM until
sunset. At least. (2) My 87 year old Father is here 7 days a week and
one of my duties is to keep him busy. What better choice than to put
him to work building an airplane. There are other factors, too but
those are the primary ones.
I am interested in knowing if there other Pietenpol builders in the
area. If so, please check in with me via e-mail and let yourselves be
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 23
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Subject: | new builders----absorbtion mode |
Before I actually decided to build a Pietenpol I attended the Pietenpol
Fly-In held each year
just prior to the Oshkosh airshow and was there to purchase a flying
Pietenpol. I realized how
many variations of the basic Pietenpol/GN-1 design were out there and
decided to just take notes,
take photos, take video, and incorporate little ideas from many
different builders to make my Piet
just like I wanted it. Just absorbing for the first year and to dabble
in making your 30 wings ribs
will take very little monetary investment and will help you to formulate
just which one of the many
variations works best for you. I'm still absorbing information about
these airplanes from new
builders and from just listening to the guys on this list !
Mike C.
Ohio
Message 24
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|
Subject: | Re: Bailing out of a 601 |
Well that's not as drastic as going from a Velocity to a Pietenpol but still
cheaper (and after you attend your first Broadhead Piet flyin you will
realize more fun).
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 11:25 AM, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Rick,
>
>
> You are absolutely right about the article in SA being an inspiration. It
> got me off my dead a__, to realize I was wasting time on a project that was
> un-inspiring to me. I have "bailed" out of my 601 project, have Piet plans
> in hand, and am pressing forward, too.
>
>
> As an introduction to the Group:
>
>
> I have a WW Corvair conversion that I completed 4 years ago, but got
> side-tracked into a Zenith 601. The Pietenpol has been my real dream since
> 1972, and I feel truly invigorated with my decision.
>
>
> Hat's off to Bob who has found a way to include his aging father in his
> project.
>
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:02 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself
>
>
> Welcome Bob
>
> I was wondering why their has been sudden explosion of new people on this
> group thinking or planning on getting started on a Pietenpol project and you
> made me realize that it coincided with Dick's Sport Aviation article. You
> have the best reason I have heard for starting a Pietenpol project, working
> at an airport everyday and having an able-bodied assistant available to help
> (and I assume some hanger space to work in).
>
> Rick
>
> On Feb 19, 2008 9:47 AM, G. Robert Stetson <gr.stetson@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> gr.stetson@verizon.net>
>
> Fellow Builders:
>
> By way of introducing myself, my name is Bob Stetson and I am just
> getting started on the construction of an Air Camper. It is something
> that I have had in the back of my head for 15 years. The cover story in
> the February issue of Sport Aviation was the incentive I needed to get
> me started. When I saw Dick Navratil's airplane, I fell in love.
>
> There are a number of factors leading to my decision. (1) I own and
> manage Marlboro Airport in Marlborough, MA and have some time on my
> hands, considering that I am here seven days a week from 7:00 AM until
> sunset. At least. (2) My 87 year old Father is here 7 days a week and
> one of my duties is to keep him busy. What better choice than to put
> him to work building an airplane. There are other factors, too but
> those are the primary ones.
>
> I am interested in knowing if there other Pietenpol builders in the
> area. If so, please check in with me via e-mail and let yourselves be
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> ObjectAge Ltd.
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
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Subject: | Re: new builders----absorbtion mode |
Hello all,
Although I'm only building my wing ribs now, Mike was conducive in getting me to
this point. My desire to build a Piet started a number of years ago, and was
not realized until recently. I bought the plans in Sept of '07. A number of months
ago I bought his DVD, and I have almost worn it out (not really, but I watch
it alot). Alot of good information and perspective in that DVD.
I married my wife at my aviation mentor's house in early 2007. I was a member of
the Midwest Antique Airplane Club, so we were able to attend the fly-in in September
'07 @ Brodhead. Through an odd confluence of events my wife was able
to take her first flight in a "little" airplane in the Last Original Pietenpol,
courtesy of Bill Knight. She was able to take that flight with Jenny Rasmussen,
who used to own the Last Original, and she had an absolute blast. I have the
great fortune to have a supportive wife in this endeavour, who hopes to have
her own Piet, and I could not imagine starting this journey without the support
of this group. Thank you Mike, and thank you to everyone else,
Ryan
Before I actually decided to build a Pietenpol I attended the Pietenpol
Fly-In held each year
just prior to the Oshkosh airshow and was there to purchase a flying
Pietenpol. I realized how
many variations of the basic Pietenpol/GN-1 design were out there and
decided to just take notes,
take photos, take video, and incorporate little ideas from many
different builders to make my Piet
just like I wanted it. Just absorbing for the first year and to dabble
in making your 30 wings ribs
will take very little monetary investment and will help you to formulate
just which one of the many
variations works best for you. I'm still absorbing information about
these airplanes from new
builders and from just listening to the guys on this list !
Mike C.
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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|
Subject: | Re: prop for A75 |
Hey Harvey.....
Test question....Which is older? A- Mike Cuy
B- Harvey
C- 80 HP Franklin
Tee-hee-hee
harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote:
The cruise rpm is about 2100 and the max is 2500,thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MikeD
Sent: February 15, 2008 9:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop for A75
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote:
> I've been using a 72 X 42 on my 80 hp Franklin.I was always wondering
if
> I could use something that could give me more gas milage.(maybe even
> more speed)I seem to go through the gas quite quickly but then that
> could be because I have the carb set for rich.I was told this is the
> best for low altitude flying.Adjust when flying over 3000 ft.I very
> seldom get over 3000.I like the view at low and slow.
>
> --
The horsepower rating alone will not dictate the prop choice. What are
the cruise and max rpm for that engine? 72-42 is larger than anything
listed for use with an A75. You can use it on an A65, but cruise/max rpm
is lower. If you put it on an A75, but you'll see about 65hp max out of
it. The torque curves are very close up to A65 rpm levels and if you
load it the same it will perform about the same. You need to load it so
that it reaches it's higher cruise/max rpm to produce full power,
therefore you need less load than a 65.
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164354#164354
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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|
Subject: | having support at home & the books every builder should |
have
You've got a great start there Ryan just by having a supportive wife.
There are many guys on this list who don't have that support at home and
it just
makes it so much nicer if you do have it. I decided after my first
marriage (ended in 1991) that I would build an airplane and fly it
before I ever remarried
and that is how it played out. (I married again in 2001 after having
taken my plane to Oshkosh and Brodhead twice) My wife is supportive of
my flying
and tinkering out at the hangar and often times she will say "you're
getting crabby, why don't you go out to the airport for a while" and
sure enough, that
usually works !
I know the guys who have been on the list a while are ready for me to
say this to any newcomers but I can't stress enough the importance that
the EAA's
Tony Bingelis Homebuilding book series was to me during construction.
You hear this or that about glue or about using this kind of nut or bolt
vs. that
kind of metal or band saw blade and you wonder "which is the best, which
is the right way, and is there another way that might save me some money
? "
These books are worth every dollar you pay for them as they easily saved
me so from so many floundering mistakes that I would have made if I
hadn't
read them. I made enough mistakes even AFTER reading Tony's advice and
counsel. http://shop.eaa.org/html/04_books_bingelis.html?cart_id
Right now all four books are a penny under $70 dollars. I STILL look
up things in my Tony Bingelis books when I have a question or I want to
do a
repair. You can get four different answers to a question from the list
or out at the local repair shop/hangar by you but what is best for you ?
There are
usually at least two ways, sometimes up to 10 or 15 various way to
approach a part of your Pietenpol that you want to build so why not read
about the
various ways and you pick the best and know with confidence that it is
going to be airworthy and safe ? Okay...end of infomercial !
Mike C.
Ohio
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Subject: | which is older ? |
I've attached my latest photo to help you answer, Harvey. Ahem.....
Hey Harvey.....
Test question....Which is older? A- Mike Cuy
B- Harvey
C- 80 HP Franklin
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Subject: | Re: having support at home & the books every builder should |
h...
Guys,
I second the idea of getting all the Bingelis Books. They have saved me
countless hours of research by having then at my fingertips. Just the other day
I
was questioning myself about what is the proper propeller ground clearance. I
found the answer in about 3 minutes, and was able to go on about the
business of deciding how long to make my prop. They are worth many times their
value
and will pay for themselves just in the cost of not buying the wrong
materials because of bad decisions. Every time I look at them I wonder how one
man
could have been so knowledgeable and able to put it all down in writing and
get all of this published. The diagrams and drawings are fantastic.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Subject: | which is older ? |
Apparently Mike has changed his appearance since Brodhead, last summer.
He now seems to look suspiciously like a well known 65 year-old actor.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: which is older ?
I've attached my latest photo to help you answer, Harvey. Ahem.....
Hey Harvey.....
Test question....Which is older? A- Mike Cuy
B- Harvey
C- 80 HP Franklin
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
I don't think I stated my concern clearly enough. I am concerned with the spar
failing in bending. The fabric transfers the upward force of the air from the
bottom side of the wing to the ribs which in turn transfer forces to the spare.
Since the ribs are evenly spaced at about 1ft. on center one can assume that
the bending force on the spar is evenly distributed along the length of the spar
(beam). Beams concentrate tension and compression forces at I believe the
top and bottom 1/3rds to their sections. If there is a taper to the top of the
beam the beam in theory gets deeper and the compression forces get concentrated
closer the the infinitesimally small tip of the taper on the beam. The steeper
the taper the closer the forces are concentrated into the tip. So I suppose
my question really was has anyone looked at how great a taper can be given to
the beam before the reduced area of the taper will lead to failure of the beam
(spar) in compression? I think what would happen in the event of failure is
that a buckling of the wood fibers wood be observed down to where the spar reaches
full section width then stop. But, the buckling may not stop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165083#165083
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
My eyes are glazing over. Honestly I think you are being too smart by half.
In other words, don't worry about this. It would not happen in a million
years, unless of course you are planning to do outside loops or lumshevaks (sp).
My airplane will only be doing 30 to 40 degree banks at the most. For any
airplane spar to fail is quite rare.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
In a unifromly-loaded plain (3/4" thick, no routing) spar under a positive vertical
load, the stresses can be visualized as a straight-line progression from
maximum compression at the top-most fiber to a maximum tension at the bottom-most
fiber, passing through zero stress at the neutral point, close to the middle.
In a homogeneous member under such a bending load, there really isn't any
stress concentration except at bolt holes, joints, cuts or other discontinuities.
If the top edge of the plain 3/4" Piet spar is bevelled, the stresses are only
slightly redistributed, but not "concentrated".
If the 3/4" spar is cut wider than the plans call for in order to accomodate the
beveling, the maximum stresses are actually slightly lower than for a square-cut
spar, under the same loading.
Mike Hardaway
---- Brown Gravy <mjs.browngravy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think I stated my concern clearly enough. I am concerned with the spar
failing in bending. The fabric transfers the upward force of the air from the
bottom side of the wing to the ribs which in turn transfer forces to the spare.
Since the ribs are evenly spaced at about 1ft. on center one can assume that
the bending force on the spar is evenly distributed along the length of the
spar (beam). Beams concentrate tension and compression forces at I believe the
top and bottom 1/3rds to their sections. If there is a taper to the top of the
beam the beam in theory gets deeper and the compression forces get concentrated
closer the the infinitesimally small tip of the taper on the beam. The steeper
the taper the closer the forces are concentrated into the tip. So I suppose
my question really was has anyone looked at how great a taper can be given
to the beam before the reduced area of the taper will lead to failure of the
beam (spar) in compression? I think what would happen
!
> in the event of failure is that a buckling of the wood fibers wood be observed
down to where the spar reaches full section width then stop. But, the buckling
may not stop.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165083#165083
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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|
Subject: | New guy jig question |
Hello,
Just building my wing rib jigs, and have no experience with T-88. For the joints,
any feedback on cutting holes at the joints versus using plastic to keep T-88
off the jig? I've heard don't use wax paper because it contaminates the other
side(?)
Thanks,
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165086#165086
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
MJS,
Could you share some of your technical background, i.e. Engineer? I
laminated and beveled my spars as per the attached drawing. Before
doing so I ran the drawings by an AE. He said he wished he had done the
same on his. Hope the heck your wrong...
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
I don't think I stated my concern clearly enough. I am concerned with
the spar failing in bending. The fabric transfers the upward force of
the air from the bottom side of the wing to the ribs which in turn
transfer forces to the spare. Since the ribs are evenly spaced at about
1ft. on center one can assume that the bending force on the spar is
evenly distributed along the length of the spar (beam). Beams
concentrate tension and compression forces at I believe the top and
bottom 1/3rds to their sections. If there is a taper to the top of the
beam the beam in theory gets deeper and the compression forces get
concentrated closer the the infinitesimally small tip of the taper on
the beam. The steeper the taper the closer the forces are concentrated
into the tip. So I suppose my question really was has anyone looked at
how great a taper can be given to the beam before the reduced area of
the taper will lead to failure of the beam (spar) in compression? I
think what would happen !
in the event of failure is that a buckling of the wood fibers wood be
observed down to where the spar reaches full section width then stop.
But, the buckling may not stop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165083#165083
Message 36
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|
Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Besides, there are a lot of airplanes with beveled spars (tapered spars
typically mean that the spar is thicker at the root than at the tip - a
bevel is used to match the slope of the top edge of the spar to the rib
above or below it). Pitts Specials come to mind. Don't worry about it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP, which avoided the problem by cutting little spruce wedges to go
between the spars and each rib
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare
My eyes are glazing over. Honestly I think you are being too smart by
half. In other words, don't worry about this. It would not happen in a
million years, unless of course you are planning to do outside loops or
lumshevaks (sp). My airplane will only be doing 30 to 40 degree banks at
the most. For any airplane spar to fail is quite rare.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campo
s-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
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or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
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Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Interesting, is this a spar design that has been flight proven? Sure would
be cheaper than buying four 14 foot spruce spars like I did. The 3/8" ply I
assume isn't longer than 8 feet, any reinforcement at the butt joints of the
ply?
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 3:09 PM, Jack T. Textor <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com> wrote:
> MJS,
> Could you share some of your technical background, i.e. Engineer? I
> laminated and beveled my spars as per the attached drawing. Before
> doing so I ran the drawings by an AE. He said he wished he had done the
> same on his. Hope the heck your wrong...
> Thanks,
> Jack
> www.textors.com
>
>
> I don't think I stated my concern clearly enough. I am concerned with
> the spar failing in bending. The fabric transfers the upward force of
> the air from the bottom side of the wing to the ribs which in turn
> transfer forces to the spare. Since the ribs are evenly spaced at about
> 1ft. on center one can assume that the bending force on the spar is
> evenly distributed along the length of the spar (beam). Beams
> concentrate tension and compression forces at I believe the top and
> bottom 1/3rds to their sections. If there is a taper to the top of the
> beam the beam in theory gets deeper and the compression forces get
> concentrated closer the the infinitesimally small tip of the taper on
> the beam. The steeper the taper the closer the forces are concentrated
> into the tip. So I suppose my question really was has anyone looked at
> how great a taper can be given to the beam before the reduced area of
> the taper will lead to failure of the beam (spar) in compression? I
> think what would happen !
> in the event of failure is that a buckling of the wood fibers wood be
> observed down to where the spar reaches full section width then stop.
> But, the buckling may not stop.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165083#165083
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
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Subject: | New guy jig question |
Steve,
It's strictly up to you. Whatever you prefer.
Epoxy has a tendancy to run (usually when you're not looking). I have seen
photos of some builder's work that looks as though the glue was applied with
a big paintbrush (glue all over the place). Mix up a batch of epoxy, and
build a few test joints to see how the stuff works, and how neat you can be.
Even if you cut the holes at the joints, you'll probably still want
something to catch the drips that fall through the holes (like a sheet of
plastic film, maybe?).
Personally, I went with small pieces of plastic film, only at the joint
locations. See some photos here:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1157&Pl
aneID=510&FName=Bill&LName=Church&PlaneName=Air%20Camper
Bill C.
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Subject: | Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage |
Hey Mike
I have a Piet well underway not too far from you in State College, PA. Check out
web site below. There is another Piet under way in Philipsburg, 2 completed
ones north of Williamsport, and one near Danville. Let me know if you are ever
up this way and we can talk Piets.
Malcolm
--
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123
Schleicher ASW-15
Pietenpol Air Camper
Kolb MKII
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "mwhuffnagle" <mwhuffnagle@gmail.com>
>
> Thanks for the responses guys! It's really been impressive and reassuring to
> see such quick and detailed replies. I really appreciate it. If anybody else
> wants to send info about their experience, that'll continue to be helpful.
>
> I'm located in Mechanicsburg, PA which is in south central Penna and is a suburb
> of Harrisburg. I'd love to know how to contact fellow Piet builders in the
> region.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165013#165013
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Runny glue joints |
Guys,
Speaking of runny glue joints, this is one area I wish I had taken more
time. I have a lot of runs of epoxy that would have been easily alleviated if I
had only taken a few more minutes to wipe away the excess. It will all be
covered up, but it looks bad in the mean time.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Subject: | Re: New guy jig question |
I found that if you are just careful you won't get t-88 all over the jig.
The only places I found a need for a little plastic film was under the wedge
over the front spar and the block at the trailing edge which eventually get
sandwiched between 2 gussets because I glued those blocks in. When you push
the those wedges into place some glue will seep out. Under joints that are
simply gusseted I was just careful and removed runs after all the gussets
were applied with a wooden coffee stirrer with the tip sanded flat. I'm
done now and the jig has a couple of little smears on it but nothing major.
On 2/19/08, chase143 <chase143@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
> Just building my wing rib jigs, and have no experience with T-88. For the
> joints, any feedback on cutting holes at the joints versus using plastic to
> keep T-88 off the jig? I've heard don't use wax paper because it
> contaminates the other side(?)
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165086#165086
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
If I was building again I'd keep the spars square just because that's what the
plans call for and it keeps things much simpler that way. But just as an aside
the '39 Aeronca wings I'm working on now have highly beveled spars front and
rear. Beveled to match the shape of the rib. I'm really sure there is no concern.
The issues would be in adjusting the wing strut attach fittings as they
wrap over the top of the spar and possibly attaching the top compression struts,
since they attach to the top of the spar with a flat gusset. There may be
other things too. As we "Piet Purists" always say, "One change always leads
to many more, stick to the plans". Sorry, had to get that one in there. Just
a little fun in stirring the pot. :D
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165102#165102
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Subject: | Re: Bailing out of a 601, save the Corvair engine |
Rick, The Corvair is a good combo for the piet. I have not flown any other piets,
but even with 2 people aboard (330 lbs added togeather) it climbs at a respectable
rate. Probably a touch better than a J-3 with 65hp. It will out cruise
a J-3 by about 5-10 mph and not burn much more (4- 4.5 gph). We had trouble
the 1st year of operation due to a bad head we had on the engine, which led
to detonation, broken crank, rebuild, then a burnt piston. ( and a few ulcers....just
kidding) We ordered a 1965- 1969 set of jugs, and had a pair of heads
laying around and we had a valve job done on them. This solved the problem,
and flying it has been a blast. Get started, enjoy the build, and then go low
and slow into the sunset.
Shad Bell
NX92GB
---------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: Another newbie looking for advise |
Glenn,
THANK YOU ! This is outstanding and definitely gives me a clear picture
of where to go from here. Rick's advise was very helpful and your
pictures and descriptions are great.
Thanks for the welcome too. While I am just beginning my Piet, I am
hopeful that some day I might be able to know enough to offer the kind
of incredible advise like yours. Right now my expertise is in asking
questions !
Thanks again for the help.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Thomas
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise
Hi Jim,
Here's how I did my ribs.
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=8&filter=0
One of these days I'll push a piece of spar through them, and sand the
trailing and leading edges flush while they're all together like Rick
said.
Getting started is the hardest part. Welcome to the group.
On 2/17/08, quinn <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
It must be newbie day. I just spent an hour going over current and
past e-mails, amazing. I do have my first question though. I'm setting
up my rib jig and am confused on how the trailing edge finishes. Is it
simply squared off with the capstrips ? What about the wedge material,
size ? Does anyone have a picture and/or advise ?
Thanks,
Jim Q.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164690#164690
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
2/16/2008 2:16 PM
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
[/quote]In a unifromly-loaded plain (3/4" thick, no routing) spar under a positive
vertical load, the stresses can be visualized as a straight-line progression
from maximum compression at the top-most fiber to a maximum tension at the
bottom-most fiber, passing through zero stress at the neutral point, close to
the middle.
>
>
> That's why I mentioned that compression and tension is basically concentrated
in the top and bottom thirds of the beam with the center 1/3 being of little
use other that resisting shear and spacing the top and bottom 1/3s of the spar.
That's why it's okay to rout the spar. As the point of the taper gets higher
and higher the stresses at the top of the the spar, in this case where the taper
occurs, are resisted by a smaller and smaller section.
>
>
>
Honestly I think you are being too smart by half. In other words, don't worry about
this. It would not happen in a million years, unless of course you are planning
to do outside loops or lumshevaks (sp). My airplane will only be doing
30 to 40 degree banks at the most. For any airplane spar to fail is quite rare.
>
>
>
> That's what I was hoping. That it is nothing. But, it's your butt being held
a few thousand feet in the air by a couple of pieces of wood only a few inches
deep. I know if the bevel is only slight this thread is for nothing but where
is that cut off for an allowable taper?
>
>
>
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165108#165108
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Not proven Rick. It was seven ply marine, scarfed the joints.
Jack
Interesting, is this a spar design that has been flight proven? Sure
would be cheaper than buying four 14 foot spruce spars like I did. The
3/8" ply I assume isn't longer than 8 feet, any reinforcement at the
butt joints of the ply?
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 3:09 PM, Jack T. Textor <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
wrote:
MJS,
Could you share some of your technical background, i.e. Engineer? I
laminated and beveled my spars as per the attached drawing. Before
doing so I ran the drawings by an AE. He said he wished he had done the
same on his. Hope the heck your wrong...
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
I don't think I stated my concern clearly enough. I am concerned with
the spar failing in bending. The fabric transfers the upward force of
the air from the bottom side of the wing to the ribs which in turn
transfer forces to the spare. Since the ribs are evenly spaced at about
1ft. on center one can assume that the bending force on the spar is
evenly distributed along the length of the spar (beam). Beams
concentrate tension and compression forces at I believe the top and
bottom 1/3rds to their sections. If there is a taper to the top of the
beam the beam in theory gets deeper and the compression forces get
concentrated closer the the infinitesimally small tip of the taper on
the beam. The steeper the taper the closer the forces are concentrated
into the tip. So I suppose my question really was has anyone looked at
how great a taper can be given to the beam before the reduced area of
the taper will lead to failure of the beam (spar) in compression? I
think what would happen !
in the event of failure is that a buckling of the wood fibers wood be
observed down to where the spar reaches full section width then stop.
But, the buckling may not stop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165083#165083
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Brown Gravy wrote:
> Hello Everybody
>
> It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've been
reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering the top of
the spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered me. I'm concerned
that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of compression forces
at the tip of the taper and result to failure of the spar. Has anyone done an
analysis of the tapered spars?
I know a structural engineer who can shed some light on this, for curiosity, and
I will run it by him and post back later.
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165114#165114
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare} |
Jack T. Textor wrote:
>
> Not proven Rick. It was seven ply marine, scarfed the joints.
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> Interesting, is this a spar design that has been flight proven? Sure
> would be cheaper than buying four 14 foot spruce spars like I did. The
> 3/8" ply I assume isn't longer than 8 feet, any reinforcement at the
> butt joints of the ply?
>
Does anyone have construction details of the built-up spar that I've
heard must be used in the UK, per the PFA?
Thanks.
Owen
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Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Runny glue joints |
You can use a wood burning iron or a soldering iron to melt those runs.
Epoxy melts away and if you are carefull you can not leave marks. Try it
in an inconspicious (sp) place.
----- Original Message -----
From: HelsperSew@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Runny glue joints
Guys,
Speaking of runny glue joints, this is one area I wish I had taken
more time. I have a lot of runs of epoxy that would have been easily
alleviated if I had only taken a few more minutes to wipe away the
excess. It will all be covered up, but it looks bad in the mean time.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
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Subject: | Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage |
Malcolm,
I kinda felt a bit like the only Pieter in PA, glad to know there is so much
work happening just west of me.
PA guys , keep me in the loop on the piets and maybe some of the trips I am
always interested in Piet builds and builders.
John Recine
Lititz PA
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare} |
Owen,
I used the Jim Wills plans for my spars. They are the PFA approved version
and use built up spars. Check out http://www.cpc-world.com.
Go to "Airframe Construction" -> "Wings" -> "Wing Spars" for some pictures
etc.
Let me know if you need more details. I can not provide a copy of the plans.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies
Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Built-up Spars [Was: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare}
Jack T. Textor wrote:
>
> Not proven Rick. It was seven ply marine, scarfed the joints.
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> Interesting, is this a spar design that has been flight proven? Sure
> would be cheaper than buying four 14 foot spruce spars like I did. The
> 3/8" ply I assume isn't longer than 8 feet, any reinforcement at the
> butt joints of the ply?
>
Does anyone have construction details of the built-up spar that I've
heard must be used in the UK, per the PFA?
Thanks.
Owen
6:49 PM
8:47 PM
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Subject: | Introducing Myself |
Actually I saw the EAA TV spot on the web site about 70 years of Pet. Then
cruised the internet before I realized that my as of yet unread issue from
the EAA also had an article. I had thought that the radial would be a good
engine for the Piet cruised their site and saw a reference to the article.
I sort of like the backwards way (playing with canards and all it comes
natural).
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself
Welcome Bob
I was wondering why their has been sudden explosion of new people on this
group thinking or planning on getting started on a Pietenpol project and you
made me realize that it coincided with Dick's Sport Aviation article. You
have the best reason I have heard for starting a Pietenpol project, working
at an airport everyday and having an able-bodied assistant available to help
(and I assume some hanger space to work in).
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 9:47 AM, G. Robert Stetson <gr.stetson@verizon.net> wrote:
<gr.stetson@verizon.net>
Fellow Builders:
By way of introducing myself, my name is Bob Stetson and I am just
getting started on the construction of an Air Camper. It is something
that I have had in the back of my head for 15 years. The cover story in
the February issue of Sport Aviation was the incentive I needed to get
me started. When I saw Dick Navratil's airplane, I fell in love.
There are a number of factors leading to my decision. (1) I own and
manage Marlboro Airport in Marlborough, MA and have some time on my
hands, considering that I am here seven days a week from 7:00 AM until
sunset. At least. (2) My 87 year old Father is here 7 days a week and
one of my duties is to keep him busy. What better choice than to put
him to work building an airplane. There are other factors, too but
those are the primary ones.
I am interested in knowing if there other Pietenpol builders in the
area. If so, please check in with me via e-mail and let yourselves be
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
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Subject: | Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions |
Is the O-200 an option, or is it just too heavy? While I'm on the subject, what
is the biggest engine in terms of HP that is flying on a reasonably standard
Piet, without just being stoopid about it?
--------
"One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at
all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165128#165128
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Subject: | Re: Introducing Myself |
I have to jump on the bandwagon here and give my own salute to Dick and his beautiful
plane. Before that article came out last month, I had planned on building
either a MiniMax or something from Fisher. Now the bar has been raised on
the all-wood airplanes, and I have a new set of goals. I just wish I could afford
that wonderful motor!
--------
"One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at
all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165129#165129
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Subject: | Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions |
The O-200 is a great choice for a Piet, saw two of them on Pietenpols at
Broadhead last summer. I think it weights a little less than the Corvair.
The O-200 is my second engine choice and if I don't get all the parts I need
to finish my Corvair by this Spring I think I will sell what I have and gut
a used O-200.
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 7:00 PM, jhubbard <jhubbard65@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Is the O-200 an option, or is it just too heavy? While I'm on the
> subject, what is the biggest engine in terms of HP that is flying on a
> reasonably standard Piet, without just being stoopid about it?
>
> --------
> "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no
> boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got
> together.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165128#165128
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
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Subject: | New guy jig question |
Steve,
Dittos to Bill and his response. I made sure my glue was on everything and everywhere.
I made sure that if I was to ever make (heaven forbid) crash landing,
my glue joints would provide me with enough "glue cushion snot ball" that I
could walk away! Viva T-88.
And....if you don't believe me just ask Dan...another builder in Fargo, ND!
Ken H
Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
Steve,
It's strictly up to you. Whatever you prefer.
Epoxy has a tendancy to run (usually when you're not looking). I have seen
photos of some builder's work that looks as though the glue was applied with
a big paintbrush (glue all over the place). Mix up a batch of epoxy, and
build a few test joints to see how the stuff works, and how neat you can be.
Even if you cut the holes at the joints, you'll probably still want
something to catch the drips that fall through the holes (like a sheet of
plastic film, maybe?).
Personally, I went with small pieces of plastic film, only at the joint
locations. See some photos here:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1157&Pl
aneID=510&FName=Bill&LName=Church&PlaneName=Air%20Camper
Bill C.
---------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions |
Rick
I looked at the data plates on the two O-200 Piets at Brodhead. They
both list empty weight at 810 Lbs. Of course with that you get full
electrical system and night equipped.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie with the usual annoying
questions
The O-200 is a great choice for a Piet, saw two of them on Pietenpols
at Broadhead last summer. I think it weights a little less than the
Corvair. The O-200 is my second engine choice and if I don't get all the
parts I need to finish my Corvair by this Spring I think I will sell
what I have and gut a used O-200.
Rick
On Feb 19, 2008 7:00 PM, jhubbard <jhubbard65@comcast.net> wrote:
<jhubbard65@comcast.net>
Is the O-200 an option, or is it just too heavy? While I'm on the
subject, what is the biggest engine in terms of HP that is flying on a
reasonably standard Piet, without just being stoopid about it?
--------
"One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys
ain't no boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins
and I got together.
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare} |
Peter W Johnson wrote:
> I used the Jim Wills plans for my spars. They are the PFA approved version
> and use built up spars. Check out http://www.cpc-world.com.
That's a nice web site! (No doubt you've heard.)
> Let me know if you need more details. I can not provide a copy of the plans.
>
Of course. Wouldn't ask you to.
Your note led me to do the Google scan I should have performed in the
first place. One of the first things that came up was your exchange with
Dick Carden in 2004. Given the material dimensions from one of those
notes, I'd be amazed if I couldn't come up with a safe design for spars
with nothing more than your photos and a general understanding of how
these things are done. (Of course, I have the article on converting
solid spars to plywood-web I-beams from an ancient Sport Aviation as
well.) Which would not keep me from buying a set of plans to make sure,
of course, if they can be had. I see Doc Mosher had trouble and wound up
designing his own, even without your photos to work from.
Thanks for the offer of help. I'll probably take you up on it when the
time comes.
Owen
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Sorry folks. didn't mean to scare anyone. I guess I should have titled the posting
differently. "Tapered Spar Scare" was a bit strong. I was just curious if
someone had looked into the matter. I too was considering built-up spars with
a tapered top, but then got to thinking about all those things I learned in my
"statics" class many years ago and my experiences with making bows and how bows
with deep narrow bellies are more likely to fail in compression.
> I know a structural engineer who can shed some light on this, for curiosity,
and I will run it by him and post back later.
>
> Mike
Thanks. That'll settle the matter for me.
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Fear not, Mr. Gravy.
Beveling the top of the spar is a perfectly good way to get an additional
1/8" of spar depth. It is a good thing.
Greg C.
NX18235 has 130+ hours on a beveled spar.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brown Gravy" <mjs.browngravy@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare
> <mjs.browngravy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello Everybody
>
> It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've
> been reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering
> the top of the spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered
> me. I'm concerned that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of
> compression forces at the tip of the taper and result to failure of the
> spar. Has anyone done an analysis of the tapered spars?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165034#165034
>
>
>
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Subject: | New Finished Fuel Tank |
Members of the list:
Here are some photos of my new fuel tank. Aircraft 6061 aluminum with inside
baffles. This header tank weights in around 35 lbs. It has tabs welding to the
sides to prevent the suspension straps from sliding off the tank. I decided to
make this a large as possible with no center section tank. I am guessing around
8-10 gallons total. The back tapers toward the front. If you request more
info. or photos, email me.
Has anyone used tow strap belting to suspend the tank? what are most using to
suspend the tank and any photos would be helpful.
Open for thoughts on the tank?...
Ken H
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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Subject: | More photos of Fuel tank |
More photos of finished tank...
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: New guy jig question |
In other words, don't spare the glue! Sounds good. It just seemed like on the first
side rib gluing the epoxy will adhere to the jig and perhaps be a problems
pulling off, perhaps not. Guess we'll just have to give it a go!
Thanks all.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165158#165158
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Subject: | McCaslin Field Fly-In & Lunch, February 23rd, Slaughterville, |
OK
Sure would like to see another AirCamper there this time. Last time we
had 40 planes show up. Fly-ins and drive-ins are welcome.
www.wotelectronics.com/flyin/
Here are some pictures from the last fly-in:
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin/111707/
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
405-209-9010
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Subject: | Re: new builders----absorbtion mode |
Good advice, Mike.
I would also suggest going to Chris Tracy's website at:
www.westcoastpiet.com
Lots of good pictures of many different Pietenpols.
Greg C.
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 12:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: new builders----absorbtion mode
> <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>
> Before I actually decided to build a Pietenpol I attended the Pietenpol
> Fly-In held each year
> just prior to the Oshkosh airshow and was there to purchase a flying
> Pietenpol. I realized how
> many variations of the basic Pietenpol/GN-1 design were out there and
> decided to just take notes,
> take photos, take video, and incorporate little ideas from many
> different builders to make my Piet
> just like I wanted it. Just absorbing for the first year and to dabble
> in making your 30 wings ribs
> will take very little monetary investment and will help you to formulate
> just which one of the many
> variations works best for you. I'm still absorbing information about
> these airplanes from new
> builders and from just listening to the guys on this list !
>
> Mike C.
> Ohio
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: New guy jig question |
Steve,
The best way I believe to do the rib jig is this.....go to Menard's and dig thru
their counter top section for a discarded piece long enough for your rib jig.
Trace your rib jig drawings down onto the counter-top with fine tip marker
and create your pattern for ribs. Glue away..... and don't worry about the rib
sticking to the counter-top. When done gluing (the next day) lift it out of
the jig and if any glue is left over,........ with a smooth scraper "flick" it
off.....like picking your nose.
Of course, glue a t-sample piece first and the next day see how easy it comes
off the counter-top.
Sincerely,
The village idiot!
chase143 <chase143@aol.com> wrote:
In other words, don't spare the glue! Sounds good. It just seemed like on the first
side rib gluing the epoxy will adhere to the jig and perhaps be a problems
pulling off, perhaps not. Guess we'll just have to give it a go!
Thanks all.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165158#165158
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Exactly. The oldest, continuosly registered aircraft in
Canada, originaly built in the early thirties and rebuild
some number of years ago by the builders son, Pietenpol
CF-AOG, has the spars bevelled to match the rib contours.
It has experienced an awful lot of hours on those spars.
Clif
>
> Fear not, Mr. Gravy.
> Beveling the top of the spar is a perfectly good way to get an additional
> 1/8" of spar depth. It is a good thing.
>
> Greg C.
> NX18235 has 130+ hours on a beveled spar.......
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