---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/19/08: 67 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:43 AM - Re: Re: prop for A75 () 2. 04:56 AM - Re: Wider Fuselage (HelsperSew@aol.com) 3. 05:26 AM - Re: Wider Fuselage (Roman Bukolt) 4. 05:56 AM - Re: Wider Fuselage (Phillips, Jack) 5. 06:45 AM - Re: Wider Fuselage (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 6. 06:51 AM - Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage (mwhuffnagle) 7. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 8. 08:13 AM - Fuselage Longerons (TBYH@aol.com) 9. 08:19 AM - Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (Steve Eldredge) 10. 08:50 AM - Introducing Myself (G. Robert Stetson) 11. 08:50 AM - Tapered Spar Scare (Brown Gravy) 12. 09:24 AM - Re: Introducing Myself (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 13. 09:28 AM - Re: Introducing Myself (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 14. 09:33 AM - Re: prop for A75 (MikeD) 15. 09:35 AM - Piets with A-75's (MikeD) 16. 09:57 AM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Ryan Mueller) 17. 10:04 AM - Re: Introducing Myself (Rick Holland) 18. 10:04 AM - Re: Introducing Myself (Glenn Thomas) 19. 10:11 AM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Rick Holland) 20. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Introducing Myself (Rick Holland) 21. 10:19 AM - Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (Rick Holland) 22. 10:30 AM - Bailing out of a 601 (Gary Boothe) 23. 11:01 AM - new builders----absorbtion mode (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 24. 11:12 AM - Re: Bailing out of a 601 (Rick Holland) 25. 12:13 PM - Re: new builders----absorbtion mode (Ryan Mueller) 26. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: prop for A75 (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 27. 12:44 PM - having support at home & the books every builder should have (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 28. 01:06 PM - which is older ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 29. 01:09 PM - Re: having support at home & the books every builder should h... (HelsperSew@aol.com) 30. 01:22 PM - Re: which is older ? (Bill Church) 31. 01:36 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Brown Gravy) 32. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: Tapered Spar Scare (HelsperSew@aol.com) 33. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: Tapered Spar Scare () 34. 02:11 PM - New guy jig question (chase143) 35. 02:13 PM - Re: Spam> Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Jack T. Textor) 36. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Phillips, Jack) 37. 02:38 PM - Re: Spam> Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Rick Holland) 38. 02:38 PM - Re: New guy jig question (Bill Church) 39. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage (gliderx5@comcast.net) 40. 03:02 PM - Re: Runny glue joints (HelsperSew@aol.com) 41. 03:10 PM - Re: New guy jig question (Glenn Thomas) 42. 03:33 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Don Emch) 43. 03:36 PM - Re: Bailing out of a 601, save the Corvair engine (shad bell) 44. 03:41 PM - Re: Another newbie looking for advise (Jim Quinn) 45. 03:53 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Brown Gravy) 46. 03:56 PM - Re: Spam> Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Jack T. Textor) 47. 04:34 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (MikeD) 48. 05:08 PM - Re: Built-up Spars [Was: Re: Tapered Spar Scare} (Owen Davies) 49. 05:22 PM - Re: Runny glue joints (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 50. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 51. 05:34 PM - Re: Built-up Spars [Was: Re: Tapered Spar Scare} (Peter W Johnson) 52. 05:58 PM - Re: Introducing Myself (Bob Hassel) 53. 06:03 PM - Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (jhubbard) 54. 06:10 PM - Re: Introducing Myself (jhubbard) 55. 07:04 PM - Re: Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (Rick Holland) 56. 07:12 PM - Re: New guy jig question (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 57. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (Dick Navratil) 58. 07:34 PM - Re: Built-up Spars [Was: Re: Tapered Spar Scare} (Owen Davies) 59. 07:54 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Brown Gravy) 60. 08:45 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (gcardinal) 61. 08:48 PM - New Finished Fuel Tank (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 62. 08:49 PM - More photos of Fuel tank (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 63. 08:59 PM - Re: New guy jig question (chase143) 64. 09:03 PM - McCaslin Field Fly-In & Lunch, February 23rd, Slaughterville, OK (Steve Ruse) 65. 09:13 PM - Re: new builders----absorbtion mode (gcardinal) 66. 09:45 PM - Re: Re: New guy jig question (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 67. 11:26 PM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop for A75 From: The cruise rpm is about 2100 and the max is 2500,thanks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MikeD Sent: February 15, 2008 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop for A75 harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: > I've been using a 72 X 42 on my 80 hp Franklin.I was always wondering if > I could use something that could give me more gas milage.(maybe even > more speed)I seem to go through the gas quite quickly but then that > could be because I have the carb set for rich.I was told this is the > best for low altitude flying.Adjust when flying over 3000 ft.I very > seldom get over 3000.I like the view at low and slow. > > -- The horsepower rating alone will not dictate the prop choice. What are the cruise and max rpm for that engine? 72-42 is larger than anything listed for use with an A75. You can use it on an A65, but cruise/max rpm is lower. If you put it on an A75, but you'll see about 65hp max out of it. The torque curves are very close up to A65 rpm levels and if you load it the same it will perform about the same. You need to load it so that it reaches it's higher cruise/max rpm to produce full power, therefore you need less load than a 65. Mike -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164354#164354 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:38 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wider Fuselage Hi Guys, I did not soak my longerons before bending the fuse sides. I am curious how many did or didn't? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:54 AM PST US From: Roman Bukolt Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wider Fuselage With all the cross members in place, It took me very little effort to pull the lower longerons into place in my jig. No steam, no soaking, and no cracking. No problem. Roman Bukolt NX20795 On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:54 AM, HelsperSew@aol.com wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I did not soak my longerons before bending the fuse sides. I am > curious how many did or didn't? > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on > AOL Living. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:48 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wider Fuselage From: "Phillips, Jack" I did not. I did soak the lower longerons before constructing the fuselage sides, but did not soak anything before gluing the two sides together. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wider Fuselage Hi Guys, I did not soak my longerons before bending the fuse sides. I am curious how many did or didn't? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:00 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wider Fuselage I had a similar experience. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage From: "mwhuffnagle" Thanks for the responses guys! It's really been impressive and reassuring to see such quick and detailed replies. I really appreciate it. If anybody else wants to send info about their experience, that'll continue to be helpful. I'm located in Mechanicsburg, PA which is in south central Penna and is a suburb of Harrisburg. I'd love to know how to contact fellow Piet builders in the region. Thanks again, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165013#165013 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:09 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage In a message dated 2/19/2008 9:52:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mwhuffnagle@gmail.com writes: : Mike, I am in Lititz PA, 8 miles north of Lancaster and 3 miles north of LNS. John **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:54 AM PST US From: TBYH@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Longerons No need to soak the lower fuselage longerons...just bend 'em slowly into place. Don't overbend. They'll be just fine and will "take" the bend once they've been secured, glued and have sat a while. Fred B. (Took a day off to work on the Piet today -- kids are gone and wife went to work. It's just me and the Piet at the house!) **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:19 AM PST US From: Steve Eldredge Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Newbie with the usual annoying questions I've flown my Piet from a 4500'alt for 10 years. I too learned to fly at Jefco (I don't care what they call it now... Metro blah blah...). If flown solo, density altitude is not a problem with 65hp. (my ship weighted 626lbs) I weigh about 225 and enjoyed adequate performance even on hot days. I wished or 100hp whenever I took a passenger more than a child's weight. (except when I was at Brodhead (elevation 600' or so) -the air is really thick!) Stevee -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jhubbard Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie with the usual annoying questions Ok fellas, I'm brand new to this list, but am VERY impressed by the level of support and participation on this particular forum. I've long considered building a Piet for all the usual reasons (all-wood, wallet friendly, nostalgic, etc), but since I live near Boulder, Colorado, where the average 85 degree summer day brings the density altitude slightly north of 8000 feet, I've wondered about it's performance on any day that isn't crystal clear and 50 degrees. I understand the engine options are numerous, and I would like to get some real-world feedback on the performance up in the thinner air for given engine/prop choices. I'm specifically concerned with Rate of Climb and Takeoff Roll specs. I also notice that there are at least a couple builders in Co. area, and am wondering if your birds are flying, or still...ummm....in the nest. Thanks for all your help. Jeff -------- "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164682#164682 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:25 AM PST US From: "G. Robert Stetson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself Fellow Builders: By way of introducing myself, my name is Bob Stetson and I am just getting started on the construction of an Air Camper. It is something that I have had in the back of my head for 15 years. The cover story in the February issue of Sport Aviation was the incentive I needed to get me started. When I saw Dick Navratil's airplane, I fell in love. There are a number of factors leading to my decision. (1) I own and manage Marlboro Airport in Marlborough, MA and have some time on my hands, considering that I am here seven days a week from 7:00 AM until sunset. At least. (2) My 87 year old Father is here 7 days a week and one of my duties is to keep him busy. What better choice than to put him to work building an airplane. There are other factors, too but those are the primary ones. I am interested in knowing if there other Pietenpol builders in the area. If so, please check in with me via e-mail and let yourselves be known to me. Keep 'em flyin and wish me luck. Bob Stetson ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare From: "Brown Gravy" Hello Everybody It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've been reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering the top of the spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered me. I'm concerned that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of compression forces at the tip of the taper and result to failure of the spar. Has anyone done an analysis of the tapered spars? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165034#165034 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:55 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself Welcome Bob, I can find no better way to spend time than building my Piet, some times its about the destination and some times its about the journey and when you build a Piet it becomes both no matter what side you start on. John Recine Lititz PA **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Welcome to the list, Bob ! You sound like you're ready to get started and that is great that your Dad is healthy enough at 87 to come out to the airport everyday with you. Excellent. The list is made up of a good group of guys from private pilots, non-pilots who are builders, up to anything and everything as far as backgrounds. It is a long process to hand-build a plans-built airplane but this group can encourage you and keep you informed along the way---or give you some ideas to mull over as you build to decide what works best for you. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop for A75 From: "MikeD" harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: > The cruise rpm is about 2100 and the max is 2500,thanks. > > -- Thanks. That's 200-300 more than an A-65 or A-75 will do on the same prop AFAIK. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165045#165045 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:39 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piets with A-75's From: "MikeD" Hi, We were talking Piets and A-75's in the other thread about props, so for those that didn't read it I would sure be interested to hear from anyone else flying the 75 in a Piet, and what you have to say about it. Thanks in advance, Mike -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165046#165046 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:12 AM PST US From: Ryan Mueller Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare I would think that whatever force there is would be spread over the capstrip and thusly over the top of the spar, whatever the angle. Either way... Let's say you were concerned about the concentration of stress at the top corner of that edge on the spar. If you decided to leave the top of the spar flat and use a wedge, wouldn't the top corner of that wedge still transmit that concentration of force in the same manner as the beveled spar? Ryan Hello Everybody It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've been reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering the top of the spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered me. I'm concerned that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of compression forces at the tip of the taper and result to failure of the spar. Has anyone done an analysis of the tapered spars? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165034#165034 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:41 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself Welcome Bob I was wondering why their has been sudden explosion of new people on this group thinking or planning on getting started on a Pietenpol project and you made me realize that it coincided with Dick's Sport Aviation article. You have the best reason I have heard for starting a Pietenpol project, working at an airport everyday and having an able-bodied assistant available to help (and I assume some hanger space to work in). Rick On Feb 19, 2008 9:47 AM, G. Robert Stetson wrote: > gr.stetson@verizon.net> > > Fellow Builders: > > By way of introducing myself, my name is Bob Stetson and I am just > getting started on the construction of an Air Camper. It is something > that I have had in the back of my head for 15 years. The cover story in > the February issue of Sport Aviation was the incentive I needed to get > me started. When I saw Dick Navratil's airplane, I fell in love. > > There are a number of factors leading to my decision. (1) I own and > manage Marlboro Airport in Marlborough, MA and have some time on my > hands, considering that I am here seven days a week from 7:00 AM until > sunset. At least. (2) My 87 year old Father is here 7 days a week and > one of my duties is to keep him busy. What better choice than to put > him to work building an airplane. There are other factors, too but > those are the primary ones. > > I am interested in knowing if there other Pietenpol builders in the > area. If so, please check in with me via e-mail and let yourselves be > known to me. > > Keep 'em flyin and wish me luck. > > Bob Stetson > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:55 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Introducing Myself From: "Glenn Thomas" Welcome Bob! I believe you're right on the 495 corridor. I'm in Storrs, CT and in your area frequently with a son in college in Easton and my company headquartered in Hopkinton. I've been at it for about 2 years now and have little to show for my enthusiasm except a set of completed ribs. It will be nice to have a local contact. We should get together some time. Take care, Glenn -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165052#165052 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:49 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare Good point Ryan, plus is positive G flight most all the forces on the spar would be ribs pushing upward on the bottom of the spars with the lift struts and fittings providing the down force to keep the spars where they belong. Rick On Feb 19, 2008 10:54 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > I would think that whatever force there is would be spread over the > capstrip and thusly over the top of the spar, whatever the angle. Either > way... > > Let's say you were concerned about the concentration of stress at the top > corner of that edge on the spar. If you decided to leave the top of the spar > flat and use a wedge, wouldn't the top corner of that wedge still transmit > that concentration of force in the same manner as the beveled spar? > > Ryan > > *Brown Gravy * wrote: > > > Hello Everybody > > It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've > been reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering the > top of the spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered me. > I'm > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:14 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Introducing Myself Glenn, you are being modest again, don't forget that great website you put together. Of course you can't fly a website. Rick On Feb 19, 2008 11:02 AM, Glenn Thomas wrote: > glennthomas@flyingwood.com> > > Welcome Bob! > I believe you're right on the 495 corridor. I'm in Storrs, CT and in your > area frequently with a son in college in Easton and my company headquartered > in Hopkinton. I've been at it for about 2 years now and have little to show > for my enthusiasm except a set of completed ribs. It will be nice to have a > local contact. We should get together some time. > > Take care, > Glenn > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165052#165052 > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:40 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie with the usual annoying questions Good info Steve, so at my 6500 ft. airport a C-75 may even be enough (for solo at least). Rick On Feb 19, 2008 9:05 AM, Steve Eldredge wrote: > > I've flown my Piet from a 4500'alt for 10 years. I too learned to fly at > Jefco (I don't care what they call it now... Metro blah blah...). If flown > solo, density altitude is not a problem with 65hp. (my ship weighted > 626lbs) I weigh about 225 and enjoyed adequate performance even on hot > days. I wished or 100hp whenever I took a passenger more than a child's > weight. (except when I was at Brodhead (elevation 600' or so) -the air is > really thick!) > > Stevee > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jhubbard > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 4:38 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie with the usual annoying questions > > > Ok fellas, > I'm brand new to this list, but am VERY impressed by the level of support > and participation on this particular forum. I've long considered building a > Piet for all the usual reasons (all-wood, wallet friendly, nostalgic, etc), > but since I live near Boulder, Colorado, where the average 85 degree summer > day brings the density altitude slightly north of 8000 feet, I've wondered > about it's performance on any day that isn't crystal clear and 50 degrees. > I understand the engine options are numerous, and I would like to get some > real-world feedback on the performance up in the thinner air for given > engine/prop choices. I'm specifically concerned with Rate of Climb and > Takeoff Roll specs. I also notice that there are at least a couple builders > in Co. area, and am wondering if your birds are flying, or > still...ummm....in the nest. Thanks for all your help. > Jeff > > -------- > "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no > boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got > together. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164682#164682 > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:40 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bailing out of a 601 Rick, You are absolutely right about the article in SA being an inspiration. It got me off my dead a__, to realize I was wasting time on a project that was un-inspiring to me. I have "bailed" out of my 601 project, have Piet plans in hand, and am pressing forward, too. As an introduction to the Group: I have a WW Corvair conversion that I completed 4 years ago, but got side-tracked into a Zenith 601. The Pietenpol has been my real dream since 1972, and I feel truly invigorated with my decision. Hat's off to Bob who has found a way to include his aging father in his project. Gary Boothe Cool, CA _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself Welcome Bob I was wondering why their has been sudden explosion of new people on this group thinking or planning on getting started on a Pietenpol project and you made me realize that it coincided with Dick's Sport Aviation article. You have the best reason I have heard for starting a Pietenpol project, working at an airport everyday and having an able-bodied assistant available to help (and I assume some hanger space to work in). Rick On Feb 19, 2008 9:47 AM, G. Robert Stetson wrote: Fellow Builders: By way of introducing myself, my name is Bob Stetson and I am just getting started on the construction of an Air Camper. It is something that I have had in the back of my head for 15 years. The cover story in the February issue of Sport Aviation was the incentive I needed to get me started. When I saw Dick Navratil's airplane, I fell in love. There are a number of factors leading to my decision. (1) I own and manage Marlboro Airport in Marlborough, MA and have some time on my hands, considering that I am here seven days a week from 7:00 AM until sunset. At least. (2) My 87 year old Father is here 7 days a week and one of my duties is to keep him busy. What better choice than to put him to work building an airplane. There are other factors, too but those are the primary ones. I am interested in knowing if there other Pietenpol builders in the area. If so, please check in with me via e-mail and let yourselves be -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:10 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: new builders----absorbtion mode From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Before I actually decided to build a Pietenpol I attended the Pietenpol Fly-In held each year just prior to the Oshkosh airshow and was there to purchase a flying Pietenpol. I realized how many variations of the basic Pietenpol/GN-1 design were out there and decided to just take notes, take photos, take video, and incorporate little ideas from many different builders to make my Piet just like I wanted it. Just absorbing for the first year and to dabble in making your 30 wings ribs will take very little monetary investment and will help you to formulate just which one of the many variations works best for you. I'm still absorbing information about these airplanes from new builders and from just listening to the guys on this list ! Mike C. Ohio ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:02 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bailing out of a 601 Well that's not as drastic as going from a Velocity to a Pietenpol but still cheaper (and after you attend your first Broadhead Piet flyin you will realize more fun). Rick On Feb 19, 2008 11:25 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Rick, > > > You are absolutely right about the article in SA being an inspiration. It > got me off my dead a__, to realize I was wasting time on a project that was > un-inspiring to me. I have "bailed" out of my 601 project, have Piet plans > in hand, and am pressing forward, too. > > > As an introduction to the Group: > > > I have a WW Corvair conversion that I completed 4 years ago, but got > side-tracked into a Zenith 601. The Pietenpol has been my real dream since > 1972, and I feel truly invigorated with my decision. > > > Hat's off to Bob who has found a way to include his aging father in his > project. > > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:02 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself > > > Welcome Bob > > I was wondering why their has been sudden explosion of new people on this > group thinking or planning on getting started on a Pietenpol project and you > made me realize that it coincided with Dick's Sport Aviation article. You > have the best reason I have heard for starting a Pietenpol project, working > at an airport everyday and having an able-bodied assistant available to help > (and I assume some hanger space to work in). > > Rick > > On Feb 19, 2008 9:47 AM, G. Robert Stetson wrote: > > gr.stetson@verizon.net> > > Fellow Builders: > > By way of introducing myself, my name is Bob Stetson and I am just > getting started on the construction of an Air Camper. It is something > that I have had in the back of my head for 15 years. The cover story in > the February issue of Sport Aviation was the incentive I needed to get > me started. When I saw Dick Navratil's airplane, I fell in love. > > There are a number of factors leading to my decision. (1) I own and > manage Marlboro Airport in Marlborough, MA and have some time on my > hands, considering that I am here seven days a week from 7:00 AM until > sunset. At least. (2) My 87 year old Father is here 7 days a week and > one of my duties is to keep him busy. What better choice than to put > him to work building an airplane. There are other factors, too but > those are the primary ones. > > I am interested in knowing if there other Pietenpol builders in the > area. If so, please check in with me via e-mail and let yourselves be > > > -- > Rick Holland > ObjectAge Ltd. > Castle Rock, Colorado > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:28 PM PST US From: Ryan Mueller Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: new builders----absorbtion mode Hello all, Although I'm only building my wing ribs now, Mike was conducive in getting me to this point. My desire to build a Piet started a number of years ago, and was not realized until recently. I bought the plans in Sept of '07. A number of months ago I bought his DVD, and I have almost worn it out (not really, but I watch it alot). Alot of good information and perspective in that DVD. I married my wife at my aviation mentor's house in early 2007. I was a member of the Midwest Antique Airplane Club, so we were able to attend the fly-in in September '07 @ Brodhead. Through an odd confluence of events my wife was able to take her first flight in a "little" airplane in the Last Original Pietenpol, courtesy of Bill Knight. She was able to take that flight with Jenny Rasmussen, who used to own the Last Original, and she had an absolute blast. I have the great fortune to have a supportive wife in this endeavour, who hopes to have her own Piet, and I could not imagine starting this journey without the support of this group. Thank you Mike, and thank you to everyone else, Ryan Before I actually decided to build a Pietenpol I attended the Pietenpol Fly-In held each year just prior to the Oshkosh airshow and was there to purchase a flying Pietenpol. I realized how many variations of the basic Pietenpol/GN-1 design were out there and decided to just take notes, take photos, take video, and incorporate little ideas from many different builders to make my Piet just like I wanted it. Just absorbing for the first year and to dabble in making your 30 wings ribs will take very little monetary investment and will help you to formulate just which one of the many variations works best for you. I'm still absorbing information about these airplanes from new builders and from just listening to the guys on this list ! Mike C. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:38 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop for A75 Hey Harvey..... Test question....Which is older? A- Mike Cuy B- Harvey C- 80 HP Franklin Tee-hee-hee harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: The cruise rpm is about 2100 and the max is 2500,thanks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MikeD Sent: February 15, 2008 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop for A75 harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: > I've been using a 72 X 42 on my 80 hp Franklin.I was always wondering if > I could use something that could give me more gas milage.(maybe even > more speed)I seem to go through the gas quite quickly but then that > could be because I have the carb set for rich.I was told this is the > best for low altitude flying.Adjust when flying over 3000 ft.I very > seldom get over 3000.I like the view at low and slow. > > -- The horsepower rating alone will not dictate the prop choice. What are the cruise and max rpm for that engine? 72-42 is larger than anything listed for use with an A75. You can use it on an A65, but cruise/max rpm is lower. If you put it on an A75, but you'll see about 65hp max out of it. The torque curves are very close up to A65 rpm levels and if you load it the same it will perform about the same. You need to load it so that it reaches it's higher cruise/max rpm to produce full power, therefore you need less load than a 65. Mike -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164354#164354 Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: having support at home & the books every builder should have From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" You've got a great start there Ryan just by having a supportive wife. There are many guys on this list who don't have that support at home and it just makes it so much nicer if you do have it. I decided after my first marriage (ended in 1991) that I would build an airplane and fly it before I ever remarried and that is how it played out. (I married again in 2001 after having taken my plane to Oshkosh and Brodhead twice) My wife is supportive of my flying and tinkering out at the hangar and often times she will say "you're getting crabby, why don't you go out to the airport for a while" and sure enough, that usually works ! I know the guys who have been on the list a while are ready for me to say this to any newcomers but I can't stress enough the importance that the EAA's Tony Bingelis Homebuilding book series was to me during construction. You hear this or that about glue or about using this kind of nut or bolt vs. that kind of metal or band saw blade and you wonder "which is the best, which is the right way, and is there another way that might save me some money ? " These books are worth every dollar you pay for them as they easily saved me so from so many floundering mistakes that I would have made if I hadn't read them. I made enough mistakes even AFTER reading Tony's advice and counsel. http://shop.eaa.org/html/04_books_bingelis.html?cart_id Right now all four books are a penny under $70 dollars. I STILL look up things in my Tony Bingelis books when I have a question or I want to do a repair. You can get four different answers to a question from the list or out at the local repair shop/hangar by you but what is best for you ? There are usually at least two ways, sometimes up to 10 or 15 various way to approach a part of your Pietenpol that you want to build so why not read about the various ways and you pick the best and know with confidence that it is going to be airworthy and safe ? Okay...end of infomercial ! Mike C. Ohio ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: which is older ? From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" I've attached my latest photo to help you answer, Harvey. Ahem..... Hey Harvey..... Test question....Which is older? A- Mike Cuy B- Harvey C- 80 HP Franklin ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:12 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: having support at home & the books every builder should h... Guys, I second the idea of getting all the Bingelis Books. They have saved me countless hours of research by having then at my fingertips. Just the other day I was questioning myself about what is the proper propeller ground clearance. I found the answer in about 3 minutes, and was able to go on about the business of deciding how long to make my prop. They are worth many times their value and will pay for themselves just in the cost of not buying the wrong materials because of bad decisions. Every time I look at them I wonder how one man could have been so knowledgeable and able to put it all down in writing and get all of this published. The diagrams and drawings are fantastic. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:57 PM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: which is older ? Apparently Mike has changed his appearance since Brodhead, last summer. He now seems to look suspiciously like a well known 65 year-old actor. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: which is older ? I've attached my latest photo to help you answer, Harvey. Ahem..... Hey Harvey..... Test question....Which is older? A- Mike Cuy B- Harvey C- 80 HP Franklin ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare From: "Brown Gravy" I don't think I stated my concern clearly enough. I am concerned with the spar failing in bending. The fabric transfers the upward force of the air from the bottom side of the wing to the ribs which in turn transfer forces to the spare. Since the ribs are evenly spaced at about 1ft. on center one can assume that the bending force on the spar is evenly distributed along the length of the spar (beam). Beams concentrate tension and compression forces at I believe the top and bottom 1/3rds to their sections. If there is a taper to the top of the beam the beam in theory gets deeper and the compression forces get concentrated closer the the infinitesimally small tip of the taper on the beam. The steeper the taper the closer the forces are concentrated into the tip. So I suppose my question really was has anyone looked at how great a taper can be given to the beam before the reduced area of the taper will lead to failure of the beam (spar) in compression? I think what would happen in the event of failure is that a buckling of the wood fibers wood be observed down to where the spar reaches full section width then stop. But, the buckling may not stop. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165083#165083 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:11 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare My eyes are glazing over. Honestly I think you are being too smart by half. In other words, don't worry about this. It would not happen in a million years, unless of course you are planning to do outside loops or lumshevaks (sp). My airplane will only be doing 30 to 40 degree banks at the most. For any airplane spar to fail is quite rare. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:03 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare In a unifromly-loaded plain (3/4" thick, no routing) spar under a positive vertical load, the stresses can be visualized as a straight-line progression from maximum compression at the top-most fiber to a maximum tension at the bottom-most fiber, passing through zero stress at the neutral point, close to the middle. In a homogeneous member under such a bending load, there really isn't any stress concentration except at bolt holes, joints, cuts or other discontinuities. If the top edge of the plain 3/4" Piet spar is bevelled, the stresses are only slightly redistributed, but not "concentrated". If the 3/4" spar is cut wider than the plans call for in order to accomodate the beveling, the maximum stresses are actually slightly lower than for a square-cut spar, under the same loading. Mike Hardaway ---- Brown Gravy wrote: > > I don't think I stated my concern clearly enough. I am concerned with the spar failing in bending. The fabric transfers the upward force of the air from the bottom side of the wing to the ribs which in turn transfer forces to the spare. Since the ribs are evenly spaced at about 1ft. on center one can assume that the bending force on the spar is evenly distributed along the length of the spar (beam). Beams concentrate tension and compression forces at I believe the top and bottom 1/3rds to their sections. If there is a taper to the top of the beam the beam in theory gets deeper and the compression forces get concentrated closer the the infinitesimally small tip of the taper on the beam. The steeper the taper the closer the forces are concentrated into the tip. So I suppose my question really was has anyone looked at how great a taper can be given to the beam before the reduced area of the taper will lead to failure of the beam (spar) in compression? I think what would happen ! > in the event of failure is that a buckling of the wood fibers wood be observed down to where the spar reaches full section width then stop. But, the buckling may not stop. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165083#165083 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: New guy jig question From: "chase143" Hello, Just building my wing rib jigs, and have no experience with T-88. For the joints, any feedback on cutting holes at the joints versus using plastic to keep T-88 off the jig? I've heard don't use wax paper because it contaminates the other side(?) Thanks, Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165086#165086 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:36 PM PST US Subject: RE: Spam> Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare From: "Jack T. Textor" MJS, Could you share some of your technical background, i.e. Engineer? I laminated and beveled my spars as per the attached drawing. Before doing so I ran the drawings by an AE. He said he wished he had done the same on his. Hope the heck your wrong... Thanks, Jack www.textors.com I don't think I stated my concern clearly enough. I am concerned with the spar failing in bending. The fabric transfers the upward force of the air from the bottom side of the wing to the ribs which in turn transfer forces to the spare. Since the ribs are evenly spaced at about 1ft. on center one can assume that the bending force on the spar is evenly distributed along the length of the spar (beam). Beams concentrate tension and compression forces at I believe the top and bottom 1/3rds to their sections. If there is a taper to the top of the beam the beam in theory gets deeper and the compression forces get concentrated closer the the infinitesimally small tip of the taper on the beam. The steeper the taper the closer the forces are concentrated into the tip. So I suppose my question really was has anyone looked at how great a taper can be given to the beam before the reduced area of the taper will lead to failure of the beam (spar) in compression? I think what would happen ! in the event of failure is that a buckling of the wood fibers wood be observed down to where the spar reaches full section width then stop. But, the buckling may not stop. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165083#165083 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:11 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare From: "Phillips, Jack" Besides, there are a lot of airplanes with beveled spars (tapered spars typically mean that the spar is thicker at the root than at the tip - a bevel is used to match the slope of the top edge of the spar to the rib above or below it). Pitts Specials come to mind. Don't worry about it. Jack Phillips NX899JP, which avoided the problem by cutting little spruce wedges to go between the spars and each rib _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare My eyes are glazing over. Honestly I think you are being too smart by half. In other words, don't worry about this. It would not happen in a million years, unless of course you are planning to do outside loops or lumshevaks (sp). My airplane will only be doing 30 to 40 degree banks at the most. For any airplane spar to fail is quite rare. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:49 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Spam> Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare Interesting, is this a spar design that has been flight proven? Sure would be cheaper than buying four 14 foot spruce spars like I did. The 3/8" ply I assume isn't longer than 8 feet, any reinforcement at the butt joints of the ply? Rick On Feb 19, 2008 3:09 PM, Jack T. Textor wrote: > MJS, > Could you share some of your technical background, i.e. Engineer? I > laminated and beveled my spars as per the attached drawing. Before > doing so I ran the drawings by an AE. He said he wished he had done the > same on his. Hope the heck your wrong... > Thanks, > Jack > www.textors.com > > > I don't think I stated my concern clearly enough. I am concerned with > the spar failing in bending. The fabric transfers the upward force of > the air from the bottom side of the wing to the ribs which in turn > transfer forces to the spare. Since the ribs are evenly spaced at about > 1ft. on center one can assume that the bending force on the spar is > evenly distributed along the length of the spar (beam). Beams > concentrate tension and compression forces at I believe the top and > bottom 1/3rds to their sections. If there is a taper to the top of the > beam the beam in theory gets deeper and the compression forces get > concentrated closer the the infinitesimally small tip of the taper on > the beam. The steeper the taper the closer the forces are concentrated > into the tip. So I suppose my question really was has anyone looked at > how great a taper can be given to the beam before the reduced area of > the taper will lead to failure of the beam (spar) in compression? I > think what would happen ! > in the event of failure is that a buckling of the wood fibers wood be > observed down to where the spar reaches full section width then stop. > But, the buckling may not stop. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165083#165083 > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:50 PM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New guy jig question Steve, It's strictly up to you. Whatever you prefer. Epoxy has a tendancy to run (usually when you're not looking). I have seen photos of some builder's work that looks as though the glue was applied with a big paintbrush (glue all over the place). Mix up a batch of epoxy, and build a few test joints to see how the stuff works, and how neat you can be. Even if you cut the holes at the joints, you'll probably still want something to catch the drips that fall through the holes (like a sheet of plastic film, maybe?). Personally, I went with small pieces of plastic film, only at the joint locations. See some photos here: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1157&Pl aneID=510&FName=Bill&LName=Church&PlaneName=Air%20Camper Bill C. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:16 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage Hey Mike I have a Piet well underway not too far from you in State College, PA. Check out web site below. There is another Piet under way in Philipsburg, 2 completed ones north of Williamsport, and one near Danville. Let me know if you are ever up this way and we can talk Piets. Malcolm -- Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123 Schleicher ASW-15 Pietenpol Air Camper Kolb MKII -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "mwhuffnagle" > > Thanks for the responses guys! It's really been impressive and reassuring to > see such quick and detailed replies. I really appreciate it. If anybody else > wants to send info about their experience, that'll continue to be helpful. > > I'm located in Mechanicsburg, PA which is in south central Penna and is a suburb > of Harrisburg. I'd love to know how to contact fellow Piet builders in the > region. > > Thanks again, > > Mike > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165013#165013 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:59 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Runny glue joints Guys, Speaking of runny glue joints, this is one area I wish I had taken more time. I have a lot of runs of epoxy that would have been easily alleviated if I had only taken a few more minutes to wipe away the excess. It will all be covered up, but it looks bad in the mean time. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:21 PM PST US From: "Glenn Thomas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New guy jig question I found that if you are just careful you won't get t-88 all over the jig. The only places I found a need for a little plastic film was under the wedge over the front spar and the block at the trailing edge which eventually get sandwiched between 2 gussets because I glued those blocks in. When you push the those wedges into place some glue will seep out. Under joints that are simply gusseted I was just careful and removed runs after all the gussets were applied with a wooden coffee stirrer with the tip sanded flat. I'm done now and the jig has a couple of little smears on it but nothing major. On 2/19/08, chase143 wrote: > > > Hello, > Just building my wing rib jigs, and have no experience with T-88. For the > joints, any feedback on cutting holes at the joints versus using plastic to > keep T-88 off the jig? I've heard don't use wax paper because it > contaminates the other side(?) > Thanks, > Steve > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165086#165086 > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare From: "Don Emch" If I was building again I'd keep the spars square just because that's what the plans call for and it keeps things much simpler that way. But just as an aside the '39 Aeronca wings I'm working on now have highly beveled spars front and rear. Beveled to match the shape of the rib. I'm really sure there is no concern. The issues would be in adjusting the wing strut attach fittings as they wrap over the top of the spar and possibly attaching the top compression struts, since they attach to the top of the spar with a flat gusset. There may be other things too. As we "Piet Purists" always say, "One change always leads to many more, stick to the plans". Sorry, had to get that one in there. Just a little fun in stirring the pot. :D Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165102#165102 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:08 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bailing out of a 601, save the Corvair engine Rick, The Corvair is a good combo for the piet. I have not flown any other piets, but even with 2 people aboard (330 lbs added togeather) it climbs at a respectable rate. Probably a touch better than a J-3 with 65hp. It will out cruise a J-3 by about 5-10 mph and not burn much more (4- 4.5 gph). We had trouble the 1st year of operation due to a bad head we had on the engine, which led to detonation, broken crank, rebuild, then a burnt piston. ( and a few ulcers....just kidding) We ordered a 1965- 1969 set of jugs, and had a pair of heads laying around and we had a valve job done on them. This solved the problem, and flying it has been a blast. Get started, enjoy the build, and then go low and slow into the sunset. Shad Bell NX92GB --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:45 PM PST US From: "Jim Quinn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise Glenn, THANK YOU ! This is outstanding and definitely gives me a clear picture of where to go from here. Rick's advise was very helpful and your pictures and descriptions are great. Thanks for the welcome too. While I am just beginning my Piet, I am hopeful that some day I might be able to know enough to offer the kind of incredible advise like yours. Right now my expertise is in asking questions ! Thanks again for the help. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Thomas To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 9:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise Hi Jim, Here's how I did my ribs. http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=8&filter=0 One of these days I'll push a piece of spar through them, and sand the trailing and leading edges flush while they're all together like Rick said. Getting started is the hardest part. Welcome to the group. On 2/17/08, quinn wrote: It must be newbie day. I just spent an hour going over current and past e-mails, amazing. I do have my first question though. I'm setting up my rib jig and am confused on how the trailing edge finishes. Is it simply squared off with the capstrips ? What about the wedge material, size ? Does anyone have a picture and/or advise ? Thanks, Jim Q. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164690#164690 -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 2/16/2008 2:16 PM ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:11 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare From: "Brown Gravy" [/quote]In a unifromly-loaded plain (3/4" thick, no routing) spar under a positive vertical load, the stresses can be visualized as a straight-line progression from maximum compression at the top-most fiber to a maximum tension at the bottom-most fiber, passing through zero stress at the neutral point, close to the middle. > > > That's why I mentioned that compression and tension is basically concentrated in the top and bottom thirds of the beam with the center 1/3 being of little use other that resisting shear and spacing the top and bottom 1/3s of the spar. That's why it's okay to rout the spar. As the point of the taper gets higher and higher the stresses at the top of the the spar, in this case where the taper occurs, are resisted by a smaller and smaller section. > > > Honestly I think you are being too smart by half. In other words, don't worry about this. It would not happen in a million years, unless of course you are planning to do outside loops or lumshevaks (sp). My airplane will only be doing 30 to 40 degree banks at the most. For any airplane spar to fail is quite rare. > > > > That's what I was hoping. That it is nothing. But, it's your butt being held a few thousand feet in the air by a couple of pieces of wood only a few inches deep. I know if the bevel is only slight this thread is for nothing but where is that cut off for an allowable taper? > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165108#165108 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:19 PM PST US Subject: RE: Spam> Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare From: "Jack T. Textor" Not proven Rick. It was seven ply marine, scarfed the joints. Jack Interesting, is this a spar design that has been flight proven? Sure would be cheaper than buying four 14 foot spruce spars like I did. The 3/8" ply I assume isn't longer than 8 feet, any reinforcement at the butt joints of the ply? Rick On Feb 19, 2008 3:09 PM, Jack T. Textor wrote: MJS, Could you share some of your technical background, i.e. Engineer? I laminated and beveled my spars as per the attached drawing. Before doing so I ran the drawings by an AE. He said he wished he had done the same on his. Hope the heck your wrong... Thanks, Jack www.textors.com I don't think I stated my concern clearly enough. I am concerned with the spar failing in bending. The fabric transfers the upward force of the air from the bottom side of the wing to the ribs which in turn transfer forces to the spare. Since the ribs are evenly spaced at about 1ft. on center one can assume that the bending force on the spar is evenly distributed along the length of the spar (beam). Beams concentrate tension and compression forces at I believe the top and bottom 1/3rds to their sections. If there is a taper to the top of the beam the beam in theory gets deeper and the compression forces get concentrated closer the the infinitesimally small tip of the taper on the beam. The steeper the taper the closer the forces are concentrated into the tip. So I suppose my question really was has anyone looked at how great a taper can be given to the beam before the reduced area of the taper will lead to failure of the beam (spar) in compression? I think what would happen ! in the event of failure is that a buckling of the wood fibers wood be observed down to where the spar reaches full section width then stop. But, the buckling may not stop. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165083#165083 -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare From: "MikeD" Brown Gravy wrote: > Hello Everybody > > It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've been reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering the top of the spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered me. I'm concerned that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of compression forces at the tip of the taper and result to failure of the spar. Has anyone done an analysis of the tapered spars? I know a structural engineer who can shed some light on this, for curiosity, and I will run it by him and post back later. Mike -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165114#165114 ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:50 PM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Built-up Spars [Was: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare} Jack T. Textor wrote: > > Not proven Rick. It was seven ply marine, scarfed the joints. > > Jack > > > > Interesting, is this a spar design that has been flight proven? Sure > would be cheaper than buying four 14 foot spruce spars like I did. The > 3/8" ply I assume isn't longer than 8 feet, any reinforcement at the > butt joints of the ply? > Does anyone have construction details of the built-up spar that I've heard must be used in the UK, per the PFA? Thanks. Owen ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:02 PM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Runny glue joints You can use a wood burning iron or a soldering iron to melt those runs. Epoxy melts away and if you are carefull you can not leave marks. Try it in an inconspicious (sp) place. ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Runny glue joints Guys, Speaking of runny glue joints, this is one area I wish I had taken more time. I have a lot of runs of epoxy that would have been easily alleviated if I had only taken a few more minutes to wipe away the excess. It will all be covered up, but it looks bad in the mean time. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:24 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie question about assembling the fuselage Malcolm, I kinda felt a bit like the only Pieter in PA, glad to know there is so much work happening just west of me. PA guys , keep me in the loop on the piets and maybe some of the trips I am always interested in Piet builds and builders. John Recine Lititz PA **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:42 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Built-up Spars [Was: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare} Owen, I used the Jim Wills plans for my spars. They are the PFA approved version and use built up spars. Check out http://www.cpc-world.com. Go to "Airframe Construction" -> "Wings" -> "Wing Spars" for some pictures etc. Let me know if you need more details. I can not provide a copy of the plans. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Built-up Spars [Was: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare} Jack T. Textor wrote: > > Not proven Rick. It was seven ply marine, scarfed the joints. > > Jack > > > > Interesting, is this a spar design that has been flight proven? Sure > would be cheaper than buying four 14 foot spruce spars like I did. The > 3/8" ply I assume isn't longer than 8 feet, any reinforcement at the > butt joints of the ply? > Does anyone have construction details of the built-up spar that I've heard must be used in the UK, per the PFA? Thanks. Owen 6:49 PM 8:47 PM ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:26 PM PST US From: "Bob Hassel" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself Actually I saw the EAA TV spot on the web site about 70 years of Pet. Then cruised the internet before I realized that my as of yet unread issue from the EAA also had an article. I had thought that the radial would be a good engine for the Piet cruised their site and saw a reference to the article. I sort of like the backwards way (playing with canards and all it comes natural). Bob Santa Fe, NM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:02 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Introducing Myself Welcome Bob I was wondering why their has been sudden explosion of new people on this group thinking or planning on getting started on a Pietenpol project and you made me realize that it coincided with Dick's Sport Aviation article. You have the best reason I have heard for starting a Pietenpol project, working at an airport everyday and having an able-bodied assistant available to help (and I assume some hanger space to work in). Rick On Feb 19, 2008 9:47 AM, G. Robert Stetson wrote: Fellow Builders: By way of introducing myself, my name is Bob Stetson and I am just getting started on the construction of an Air Camper. It is something that I have had in the back of my head for 15 years. The cover story in the February issue of Sport Aviation was the incentive I needed to get me started. When I saw Dick Navratil's airplane, I fell in love. There are a number of factors leading to my decision. (1) I own and manage Marlboro Airport in Marlborough, MA and have some time on my hands, considering that I am here seven days a week from 7:00 AM until sunset. At least. (2) My 87 year old Father is here 7 days a week and one of my duties is to keep him busy. What better choice than to put him to work building an airplane. There are other factors, too but those are the primary ones. I am interested in knowing if there other Pietenpol builders in the area. If so, please check in with me via e-mail and let yourselves be -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions From: "jhubbard" Is the O-200 an option, or is it just too heavy? While I'm on the subject, what is the biggest engine in terms of HP that is flying on a reasonably standard Piet, without just being stoopid about it? -------- "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165128#165128 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Introducing Myself From: "jhubbard" I have to jump on the bandwagon here and give my own salute to Dick and his beautiful plane. Before that article came out last month, I had planned on building either a MiniMax or something from Fisher. Now the bar has been raised on the all-wood airplanes, and I have a new set of goals. I just wish I could afford that wonderful motor! -------- "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165129#165129 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:24 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions The O-200 is a great choice for a Piet, saw two of them on Pietenpols at Broadhead last summer. I think it weights a little less than the Corvair. The O-200 is my second engine choice and if I don't get all the parts I need to finish my Corvair by this Spring I think I will sell what I have and gut a used O-200. Rick On Feb 19, 2008 7:00 PM, jhubbard wrote: > > Is the O-200 an option, or is it just too heavy? While I'm on the > subject, what is the biggest engine in terms of HP that is flying on a > reasonably standard Piet, without just being stoopid about it? > > -------- > "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no > boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got > together. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165128#165128 > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:38 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New guy jig question Steve, Dittos to Bill and his response. I made sure my glue was on everything and everywhere. I made sure that if I was to ever make (heaven forbid) crash landing, my glue joints would provide me with enough "glue cushion snot ball" that I could walk away! Viva T-88. And....if you don't believe me just ask Dan...another builder in Fargo, ND! Ken H Bill Church wrote: Steve, It's strictly up to you. Whatever you prefer. Epoxy has a tendancy to run (usually when you're not looking). I have seen photos of some builder's work that looks as though the glue was applied with a big paintbrush (glue all over the place). Mix up a batch of epoxy, and build a few test joints to see how the stuff works, and how neat you can be. Even if you cut the holes at the joints, you'll probably still want something to catch the drips that fall through the holes (like a sheet of plastic film, maybe?). Personally, I went with small pieces of plastic film, only at the joint locations. See some photos here: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1157&Pl aneID=510&FName=Bill&LName=Church&PlaneName=Air%20Camper Bill C. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:15 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions Rick I looked at the data plates on the two O-200 Piets at Brodhead. They both list empty weight at 810 Lbs. Of course with that you get full electrical system and night equipped. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 9:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions The O-200 is a great choice for a Piet, saw two of them on Pietenpols at Broadhead last summer. I think it weights a little less than the Corvair. The O-200 is my second engine choice and if I don't get all the parts I need to finish my Corvair by this Spring I think I will sell what I have and gut a used O-200. Rick On Feb 19, 2008 7:00 PM, jhubbard wrote: Is the O-200 an option, or is it just too heavy? While I'm on the subject, what is the biggest engine in terms of HP that is flying on a reasonably standard Piet, without just being stoopid about it? -------- "One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together. Read this topic online here: ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:07 PM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Built-up Spars [Was: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare} Peter W Johnson wrote: > I used the Jim Wills plans for my spars. They are the PFA approved version > and use built up spars. Check out http://www.cpc-world.com. That's a nice web site! (No doubt you've heard.) > Let me know if you need more details. I can not provide a copy of the plans. > Of course. Wouldn't ask you to. Your note led me to do the Google scan I should have performed in the first place. One of the first things that came up was your exchange with Dick Carden in 2004. Given the material dimensions from one of those notes, I'd be amazed if I couldn't come up with a safe design for spars with nothing more than your photos and a general understanding of how these things are done. (Of course, I have the article on converting solid spars to plywood-web I-beams from an ancient Sport Aviation as well.) Which would not keep me from buying a set of plans to make sure, of course, if they can be had. I see Doc Mosher had trouble and wound up designing his own, even without your photos to work from. Thanks for the offer of help. I'll probably take you up on it when the time comes. Owen ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare From: "Brown Gravy" Sorry folks. didn't mean to scare anyone. I guess I should have titled the posting differently. "Tapered Spar Scare" was a bit strong. I was just curious if someone had looked into the matter. I too was considering built-up spars with a tapered top, but then got to thinking about all those things I learned in my "statics" class many years ago and my experiences with making bows and how bows with deep narrow bellies are more likely to fail in compression. > I know a structural engineer who can shed some light on this, for curiosity, and I will run it by him and post back later. > > Mike Thanks. That'll settle the matter for me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165151#165151 ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:24 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare Fear not, Mr. Gravy. Beveling the top of the spar is a perfectly good way to get an additional 1/8" of spar depth. It is a good thing. Greg C. NX18235 has 130+ hours on a beveled spar....... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brown Gravy" Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare > > > Hello Everybody > > It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've > been reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering > the top of the spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered > me. I'm concerned that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of > compression forces at the tip of the taper and result to failure of the > spar. Has anyone done an analysis of the tapered spars? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165034#165034 > > > ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:03 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Finished Fuel Tank Members of the list: Here are some photos of my new fuel tank. Aircraft 6061 aluminum with inside baffles. This header tank weights in around 35 lbs. It has tabs welding to the sides to prevent the suspension straps from sliding off the tank. I decided to make this a large as possible with no center section tank. I am guessing around 8-10 gallons total. The back tapers toward the front. If you request more info. or photos, email me. Has anyone used tow strap belting to suspend the tank? what are most using to suspend the tank and any photos would be helpful. Open for thoughts on the tank?... Ken H --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:08 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Pietenpol-List: More photos of Fuel tank More photos of finished tank... Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New guy jig question From: "chase143" In other words, don't spare the glue! Sounds good. It just seemed like on the first side rib gluing the epoxy will adhere to the jig and perhaps be a problems pulling off, perhaps not. Guess we'll just have to give it a go! Thanks all. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165158#165158 ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:54 PM PST US From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: Pietenpol-List: McCaslin Field Fly-In & Lunch, February 23rd, Slaughterville, OK Sure would like to see another AirCamper there this time. Last time we had 40 planes show up. Fly-ins and drive-ins are welcome. www.wotelectronics.com/flyin/ Here are some pictures from the last fly-in: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin/111707/ Steve Ruse Norman, OK 405-209-9010 ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:00 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: new builders----absorbtion mode Good advice, Mike. I would also suggest going to Chris Tracy's website at: www.westcoastpiet.com Lots of good pictures of many different Pietenpols. Greg C. Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 12:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: new builders----absorbtion mode > > > > Before I actually decided to build a Pietenpol I attended the Pietenpol > Fly-In held each year > just prior to the Oshkosh airshow and was there to purchase a flying > Pietenpol. I realized how > many variations of the basic Pietenpol/GN-1 design were out there and > decided to just take notes, > take photos, take video, and incorporate little ideas from many > different builders to make my Piet > just like I wanted it. Just absorbing for the first year and to dabble > in making your 30 wings ribs > will take very little monetary investment and will help you to formulate > just which one of the many > variations works best for you. I'm still absorbing information about > these airplanes from new > builders and from just listening to the guys on this list ! > > Mike C. > Ohio > > > ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:58 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: New guy jig question Steve, The best way I believe to do the rib jig is this.....go to Menard's and dig thru their counter top section for a discarded piece long enough for your rib jig. Trace your rib jig drawings down onto the counter-top with fine tip marker and create your pattern for ribs. Glue away..... and don't worry about the rib sticking to the counter-top. When done gluing (the next day) lift it out of the jig and if any glue is left over,........ with a smooth scraper "flick" it off.....like picking your nose. Of course, glue a t-sample piece first and the next day see how easy it comes off the counter-top. Sincerely, The village idiot! chase143 wrote: In other words, don't spare the glue! Sounds good. It just seemed like on the first side rib gluing the epoxy will adhere to the jig and perhaps be a problems pulling off, perhaps not. Guess we'll just have to give it a go! Thanks all. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165158#165158 Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:33 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare Exactly. The oldest, continuosly registered aircraft in Canada, originaly built in the early thirties and rebuild some number of years ago by the builders son, Pietenpol CF-AOG, has the spars bevelled to match the rib contours. It has experienced an awful lot of hours on those spars. Clif > > Fear not, Mr. Gravy. > Beveling the top of the spar is a perfectly good way to get an additional > 1/8" of spar depth. It is a good thing. > > Greg C. > NX18235 has 130+ hours on a beveled spar....... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.