Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:04 AM - Re: which is older ? ()
2. 05:18 AM - Re: New Finished Fuel Tank (Bill Church)
3. 05:37 AM - Re: GN1 - Status Plans (James)
4. 05:51 AM - Re: GN1 - Status Plans (jhubbard)
5. 06:07 AM - prop for A75 (Oscar Zuniga)
6. 06:11 AM - O-200 on a Piet (Oscar Zuniga)
7. 06:18 AM - Explosion (HelsperSew@aol.com)
8. 06:40 AM - Re: New guy jig question (Bill Church)
9. 07:00 AM - Re: Explosion (MikeD)
10. 07:02 AM - Re: prop for A75 (MikeD)
11. 07:04 AM - Re: GN1 - Status Plans (bhassel)
12. 07:06 AM - Piet - GN! differences (bhassel)
13. 07:11 AM - Re: Newbie with the usual annoying questions (Bill Church)
14. 07:22 AM - Re: New guy jig question (chase143)
15. 07:35 AM - Re: Piet - GN! differences (Gary Boothe)
16. 07:44 AM - Re: Piet - GN! differences (Phillips, Jack)
17. 08:25 AM - Re: Tapered Spar Scare (John Hofmann)
18. 08:46 AM - Re: Piet - GN! differences (Bill Church)
19. 09:41 AM - Piet building (Dick Navratil)
20. 10:55 AM - Re: New Finished Fuel Tank (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
21. 11:03 AM - Re: Explosion (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
22. 12:02 PM - Spruce Purchase (chase143)
23. 12:34 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase (HelsperSew@aol.com)
24. 12:38 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase (Phillips, Jack)
25. 01:17 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase (chase143)
26. 01:23 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase (Catdesigns)
27. 01:33 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase (Catdesigns)
28. 01:47 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase (chase143)
29. 01:53 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase (Ryan Mueller)
30. 02:01 PM - Re: New Finished Fuel Tank (Bill Church)
31. 02:24 PM - Re: Explosion (Dick Navratil)
32. 03:15 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase (walt evans)
33. 03:46 PM - Re: New Finished Fuel Tank (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
34. 03:49 PM - Re: Explosion (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
35. 05:16 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase (Glenn Thomas)
36. 05:43 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase (VAHOWDY@aol.com)
37. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (Gary Boothe)
38. 05:46 PM - Re: Explosion (Gary Boothe)
39. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (Rick Holland)
40. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (AmsafetyC@aol.com)
41. 06:40 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (jimboyer@hughes.net)
42. 06:46 PM - Re: New Finished Fuel Tank (AmsafetyC@aol.com)
43. 06:47 PM - Spruce Purchase: (Bill Princell)
44. 06:59 PM - Re: Piet building (AmsafetyC@aol.com)
45. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: Tapered Spar Scare (AmsafetyC@aol.com)
46. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (Owen Davies)
47. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (Clif Dawson)
48. 07:42 PM - Re: Spruce Purchase: (Brian Kraut)
49. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (Gary Boothe)
50. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (Gary Boothe)
51. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (Gary Boothe)
52. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: Tapered Spar Scare (John Hofmann)
53. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (Owen Davies)
54. 09:24 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Purchase (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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Subject: | which is older ? |
That's very funny!Mike Cuy is the answer!He's old as the hills!
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: February 19, 2008 4:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: which is older ?
I've attached my latest photo to help you answer, Harvey. Ahem.....
Hey Harvey.....
Test question....Which is older? A- Mike Cuy
B- Harvey
C- 80 HP Franklin
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Subject: | New Finished Fuel Tank |
Ken,
Your new tank weighs in at around 35 pounds?
Try weighing it WITHOUT fuel.
Seriously, though, that sounds really heavy. Assuming your tank was made
of .051" aluminum (many build from .040, but .051 is a bit easier to
weld), and assuming dimensions of roughly 24" wide x 24" deep x 15" long
(which is probably bigger than the real thing), the aluminum is goung to
weigh somewhere around say, 16 -18 pounds. Add some baffles and a filler
cap and you should still be well inder 20 pounds. What thickness is your
tank made of?
Bill C.
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Subject: | GN1 - Status Plans |
I have a set I might part with.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bhassel
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 11:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN1 - Status Plans
Does anyone know the status or availability of getting the plans for the
GN1? The web site appears broke and a previous post seems to lead to the
conclusion that the plans are no longer for sale.
Does anyone have a set of plans that they wish to sell?
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164805#164805
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Subject: | Re: GN1 - Status Plans |
It is my understanding that the primary difference with the GN-1 is that it used
a Cub wing and gear. Is that correct? If so, how does this change the performance?
Any first hand experience?
Jeff
--------
"One boy is one boy, two boys is half a boy, and three boys ain't no boy at
all." My Great Grandmother, whenever my cousins and I got together.
Read this topic online here:
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Now don't get your 75s tangled up. There is an A-75 and there is a C-75. The
A-75 is what we've been discussing but someone mentioned the C-75 and that's a
different engine. It has a larger bore and many other differences from the A-75,
but for the purposes of determining which prop to use (the subject of this
thread), the C-75 develops its rated HP at a far lower speed... 2275 RPM, as
opposed to the A-75 which needs to spin 2600 to develop rated power.
All of that info is conveniently found on the Fly Baby "engines" webpage, or here: http://www.mooneymite.com/articles/continental.htm
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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For some interesting photos and data on the O-200, check out William Wynne'
s thrust testing page, even if you aren't interested in the Corvair as an a
lternative. The page is here: http://www.flycorvair.com/thrust.html . You
don't have to believe the results but at least check out the testing.Oscar
ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.fl
ysquirrel.net
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Guys,
I think Dick Navatril really lit the fuse on this site with his beautiful
round-engine Piet on the cover of Sport Aviation. I bet there will be an
explosion in the attendance at Brodhead this year! So looking forward to it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Subject: | New guy jig question |
I think maybe my original response wasn't clear.
The point I was trying to make was that some people are able to apply glue
sparingly and neatly, and some are not. If you know what type of builder you
are before you start, you can prepare yourself accordingly. If you've built
model airplanes before (and the Pietenpol is EXACTLY like a giant model
airplane), you will probably know what type of builder you are. If you don't
know what type of builder you are, make a few practice joints, and see how
things go.
Excess glue doesn't help you at all. A blob of glue away from the joint
location is simply extra weight.
My experience was identical to Glenn's (In my previous reply my link to my
photos didn't work very well. If you want to see my build photos, go to
www.mykitplane.com then go to Builder's Logs, then scroll down to Pietenpol
and pick the builder you want to check out). I used small pieces of plastic
film only at the leading edge and trailing edge. After building all of my
ribs, my jig only has a couple of spots where the glue managed to make
contact. But, if you are the type of builder that has difficulty keeping the
glue joints tidy, and glue runs directly onto the jig, you're going to have
a heck of a time removing your rib from the jig without damaging one or the
other.
So, Steve, the moral of this little story is that you need to use enough
glue to bond the surfaces together, but that's all. Epoxy joints are not to
be tightly clamped, because it will starve the joint of adhesive, but gobs
of extra glue will not add strength, just pounds. And one thing you don't
need in an airplane is extra weight.
While we're on the topic of building ribs, do yourself a favour (favor) and
spread a thin layer of epoxy on the back side of each gusset before you glue
it in place. That way the inside surface of the gusset will be sealed, and
you won't have to try sticking a paintbrush in those little cubby holes to
varnish those surfaces.
Bill C.
Message 9
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HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I think Dick Navatril really lit the fuse on this site with his beautiful round-engine
Piet on the cover of Sport Aviation. I bet there will be an explosion
in the attendance at Brodhead this year! So looking forward to it.
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
To save his sanity and vocal chords, he may want to print out about 200 copies
of a fact sheet containing:
- what is it
- how much does it cost
- performance
- smell
- taste
- feel
- etc
and put these in a "take one" tray nearby!
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165198#165198
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Subject: | Re: prop for A75 |
taildrags(at)hotmail.com wrote:
> Now don't get your 75s tangled up. There is an A-75 and there is a C-75. The
A-75 is what we've been discussing but someone mentioned the C-75 and that's
a different engine. It has a larger bore and many other differences from the
A-75, but for the purposes of determining which prop to use (the subject of this
thread), the C-75 develops its rated HP at a far lower speed... 2275 RPM,
as opposed to the A-75 which needs to spin 2600 to develop rated power.
>
> All of that info is conveniently found on the Fly Baby "engines" webpage, or here: http://www.mooneymite.com/articles/continental.htm
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
I'm talking A-75 myself. Yeah, the C-75 is a larger displacement engine and can
be propped up relative to the 65's.
Next stop - your link! Thanks.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165199#165199
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Subject: | Re: GN1 - Status Plans |
I'd be interested in finding a set of plans.
PM me or email me!
Thanks,
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165201#165201
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Subject: | Piet - GN! differences |
I am still trying to figure this all out (as a newbie).
Am I correct in understanding that the GN1 is a Piet with a stronger airframe/wing?
What are the differences?
A beefier structure sounds like a good idea to me since that pretty well fits my
description...
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165203#165203
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Subject: | Newbie with the usual annoying questions |
Jeff,
There are several flying Piets in the UK with O-200's for power. There is at
least one with an O-235. The C-90 is very common in the UK. The following
website lists individual data for all registered UK Piets, including the
engine used. There is a listing for weight, but it's Maximum Take Off Weight
(in kilograms, so multiply x 2.2 to get pounds), so that would include
occupants and fuel. Unfortunately, there isn't a listing for empty weight.
One other factor to consider with a larger engine is the increased fuel
burn, which usually means a bigger fuel tank (more weight again) or shorter
flights.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60
<http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=sum
mary&aircrafttype=pietenpol>
&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=pietenpol
Bill C.
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Subject: | Re: New guy jig question |
More excellent words! Thanks for the counter top idea, sounds like epoxy won't
stick to that, I'm trying that technique. Bill the picture link works fine, very
helpful, good words on epoxy application.
Thanks all!
Steve
Read this topic online here:
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Subject: | Piet - GN! differences |
Hi Bob,
Since your earlier post, I have been trying to find my GN1 plans. I have
both Piet and GN1 plans. It has been many years since I looked at the GN1,
but, to my best recollection, the GN1 had its own wing, but also offered the
choice of J3, T-craft, or 7AC wings.
It also had a somewhat different control stick arrangement, but I don't
recall the differences in framing sizes (beefier?). Another option was the
use of J3, etc. landing gear, with steel spreaders in the fuselage.
It is my opinion that a trained eye can tell the difference between a GN1
and a Piet, solely by the profile - something about the slender fuse on the
Piet.
That's what I recall...now if I could only find those plans for you...
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bhassel
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet - GN! differences
I am still trying to figure this all out (as a newbie).
Am I correct in understanding that the GN1 is a Piet with a stronger
airframe/wing? What are the differences?
A beefier structure sounds like a good idea to me since that pretty well
fits my description...
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165203#165203
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Subject: | Piet - GN! differences |
Easiest way to tell a GN-1 from a Pietenpol is where the landing gear
struts attach. On a Pietenpol, both the forward and rear gear struts
align with the lift struts. On a GN-1, the forward Landing gear strut
aliggns with the forward lift strut, but the rear LG strut comes into
the fuselage forward of the rear lift strut.
I've flown both and can't tell much difference in the way they fly.
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:31 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet - GN! differences
<gboothe5@comcast.net>
Hi Bob,
Since your earlier post, I have been trying to find my GN1 plans. I have
both Piet and GN1 plans. It has been many years since I looked at the
GN1,
but, to my best recollection, the GN1 had its own wing, but also offered
the
choice of J3, T-craft, or 7AC wings.
It also had a somewhat different control stick arrangement, but I don't
recall the differences in framing sizes (beefier?). Another option was
the
use of J3, etc. landing gear, with steel spreaders in the fuselage.
It is my opinion that a trained eye can tell the difference between a
GN1
and a Piet, solely by the profile - something about the slender fuse on
the
Piet.
That's what I recall...now if I could only find those plans for you...
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bhassel
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet - GN! differences
I am still trying to figure this all out (as a newbie).
Am I correct in understanding that the GN1 is a Piet with a stronger
airframe/wing? What are the differences?
A beefier structure sounds like a good idea to me since that pretty well
fits my description...
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165203#165203
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
A one inch spar failing in compression from a bevel?
Brown Gravy?
"The IT Girl of the Sky?"
It must be time to level this discussion with a quote:
"I Haven't had an unlimited budget you know. It's not going to look
look like something out of a museum, all clean and dusted. I'm a
designer and I don't give a d@nm about clean. That's what's so unique
about this plane, the design. Concentrate on that. The Design. Well,
there it is, the Stiles Skystreak."
-Ezra Stiles-
You may now return to serious Pietenpol discussion.
-john (the idiot)-
Do Not Archive
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Subject: | Piet - GN! differences |
Bob,
There are quite a few differences between the Pietenpol Air Camper and the
Grega GN-1 Aircamper. Most of them are not noticable to the casual viewer.
The GN-1 was designed as a modernized version of the Ford Model A powered
Pietenpol, using a 65HP Continental, and making use of many salvaged parts
from J-3 Cubs and the like (landing gear, fuel tank, etc). Back when the
plans were drawn up, those salvaged parts were fairly plentiful, and cheap
(not so anymore). There was an option to install a Cub wing rather than
building a new wing from scratch. Grega also felt that the fuselage needed
to be beefed up, so he extended the plywood skins all the way back to the
tailpost. I haven't heard of any plans-built Pietenpols failing behind the
pilot's seat, so I'm not sure why he felt this was necessary. Most Air
Campers are prone to being tail heavy, so added weight in that area would
not be an advantage. As I understand it, the GN-1 design does not permit the
cabane struts to be tilted fore or aft to help with Weight and Balance
issues, whereas the Pietenpol does have this feature (most Pietenpols end up
with the cabanes tilted back a few inches.)
There are many other, more subtle differences, such as design of fittings,
location of the rudder control horns, side stringers, airfoil leading edge,
etc. Take a scan through the archives to learn more.
Bill C.
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Again, thanks to all on the comments on my new plane.
I would like to remind everyone to go back to the Sport Aviation 1999
issue with the P-51 on the cover. The pics there of Mike Cuy's Piet
still are posted in my hangar. Jack Phillips and Larry Williams also
had nice spreads in the past.
Mike Cuy and Chuck Ganzer both have nice videos on building and flying
the Piet. While building watching these videos can be a great source of
inspiration.
For all new builders, try to set aside time to make it to Brodhead, Wi.
for the Piet fly in. It happens just before OSH and you get to meet
lots of the people on this list.
Dick N.
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Subject: | New Finished Fuel Tank |
Bill,
The measurements of the tank are:
24" wide X 13" deep X 12" length. The aluminum is 5/32" with a 1/8 aluminum top
to make the curve. I am heading to the local Walmart store for a weight scale
( I need to check myself too) and will have a better answer to the weight.
Their are baffles inside and the aluminum is not what I requested for thickness
but the welder mentioned it was the next thickness available to prevent "bucking"
when finished. It might be a little extra weight but with a corvair up front,
I hope it is not a factor.
Now....if I can only get my truck started. It reached -26 below without wind
chill last night!
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
Ken,
Your new tank weighs in at around 35 pounds?
Try weighing it WITHOUT fuel.
Seriously, though, that sounds really heavy. Assuming your tank was made of .051"
aluminum (many build from .040, but .051 is a bit easier to weld), and assuming
dimensions of roughly 24" wide x 24" deep x 15" long (which is probably
bigger than the real thing), the aluminum is goung to weigh somewhere around
say, 16 -18 pounds. Add some baffles and a filler cap and you should still be
well inder 20 pounds. What thickness is your tank made of?
Bill C.
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
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Say Dan......
Does the article or has Dick mention the weight of his Piet? Specifically the
engine..what is the weight of his engine?
Ken
HelsperSew@aol.com wrote:
Guys,
I think Dick Navatril really lit the fuse on this site with his beautiful round-engine
Piet on the cover of Sport Aviation. I bet there will be an explosion
in the attendance at Brodhead this year! So looking forward to it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
---------------------------------
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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I was considering buying the spruce kit from A/C Spruce to get the majority of
the wood at one time, even with ground truck cost it looks like it saves a bit
on shipping . However, their package lists the capstrips as 3/16" x 1/2" vice
what I think is correct, 1/4" x 1/2". When I contacted them, they said they verified
this from a set of plans. Also, they list the spar as 3/4" x 4 3/4". I
plan to build the full size wing, so I think the plans call for a 1" spar. Am
I miss reading two very important measurements? Thanks,
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165249#165249
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Steve,
I would definitely NOT buy my spruce from the lumber list provided by ACS.
You are best to develop your own lumber list. BTW , ACS has their "bargain bag
of spruce" which is a very good buy. I actually bought two of these before I
was finished with my wood work. You can make many parts out of the pieces
that they send you, especially if you have a planer.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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3/16" capstrips is probably fine. I ripped mine myself and they ended
up at about .20". Many Piets (inclduing mine) are flying with 3/4"
spars.
Since they make up each kit individually, I would just ask them to make
the capstrips 1/4" x 1/2". If they balk, ask to talk with Jim Irwin
(president). They pride themselves on customer service - give them a
chance to prove it. Theywill make lots of money off you in the coming
years.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Purchase
I was considering buying the spruce kit from A/C Spruce to get the
majority of the wood at one time, even with ground truck cost it looks
like it saves a bit on shipping . However, their package lists the
capstrips as 3/16" x 1/2" vice what I think is correct, 1/4" x 1/2".
When I contacted them, they said they verified this from a set of plans.
Also, they list the spar as 3/4" x 4 3/4". I plan to build the full size
wing, so I think the plans call for a 1" spar. Am I miss reading two
very important measurements? Thanks,
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165249#165249
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Sounds good. ACS was very helpful, I just told them I would research what others
(who have been there) have used, because I am new at the Piet and I'd get back
to them. Regardless, I think I'll make a list and order periodically.
Steve C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165260#165260
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Steve,
I just ordered wood for my wings from Aircraft Spruce. From my review of the Pietenpol
Air Camper spruce kit, it does not include material for the wing tip,
leading edge or trailing edge of the wing. It also does not include the wing
rib material. Im not sure how well the kit matches up with the fuselage needs
as I did not buy my fuselage wood from them.
-inch x 4 -inch spars are used by BHP on the last plane he built and are use by
many people. I was going to go with the 1-inch but decided to go with -inch (for
cost) and shims at the ribs.
Per the plans, the wing ribs are made form 1/4-inch x 1/2-inch. You will need
to order this separately. ACS has a note that says the ribs are built based on
the HP of your engine. This is not true for the Pietenpol. This must be from
the Grega plans. They also sell a Grega kit so make sure your looking at the
right one.
If you order from then have them send you a copy of the material in the kit and
compare it to your own list of stuff. It is rather simple to sit down with the
plans and get a ruff estimate of what you need.
By the way don't forget about plywood. You will need some for both the wings and
fuselage.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165261#165261
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Just noticed I made a mistake in my previous email. My spars are are 3/4-inch
by 4 3/4-inch.
Also, shipping from Corona to Sacramento, $110 (estimated by them). I cant drive
down there for less then $110. Frequently I get hit with $15 to $20 shipping
on small boxes so this sounded good to me.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165264#165264
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Thanks Chris, more great info!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165267#165267
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
There is an Excel spreadsheet wood list for the extended fuselage which is posted
on Mykitplane:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=4
Maybe someone with a bit more experience could take a look and see if it seems
correct. It is very handy for estimating cost, as you can just plug the current
prices in and it will recalculate.
Ryan
HelsperSew@aol.com wrote: Steve,
I would definitely NOT buy my spruce from the lumber list provided by ACS. You
are best to develop your own lumber list. BTW , ACS has their "bargain bag
of spruce" which is a very good buy. I actually bought two of these before I was
finished with my wood work. You can make many parts out of the pieces that
they send you, especially if you have a planer.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
---------------------------------
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Subject: | New Finished Fuel Tank |
Ken,
>From the sounds of things, your wording is correct - you have a tank that's
built like a TANK.
Looking at your pictures I can see where the baffles are installed, and
based on your dimensions I would guess your weight to be somewhere around 25
pounds (very rough guess).
I've never seen 5/32" aluminum (and I've been working in metal fabrication
for over 20 years). That would be an oddball thickness.
Not sure what "bucking" he was trying to avoid, but if it was "oil-canning"
(tension in the sheet caused by the welding, I wouldn't even worry about it.
The tank is hidden. As long as it holds fuel, and doesn't leak it doesn't
matter if it ain't pretty. But, now you've got a pretty tank. Make sure you
test it to make sure it doesn't leak before you put in your plane.
One thing's for sure - you'll never wear out your tank.
Bill C.
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Ken
My plane weighs in at 810 lb. The article is mistaken on the 820lb. I
could easily have saved lots of weight but there are certain things I
just wanted and some mistakes I made.
Dick N.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Explosion
Say Dan......
Does the article or has Dick mention the weight of his Piet?
Specifically the engine..what is the weight of his engine?
Ken
HelsperSew@aol.com wrote:
Guys,
I think Dick Navatril really lit the fuse on this site with his
beautiful round-engine Piet on the cover of Sport Aviation. I bet there
will be an explosion in the attendance at Brodhead this year! So
looking forward to it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Message 32
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
I got a lumber list from this group back in '98, submitted it to AS&S
for a quote. This is/was for spruce for the long fuselage, and the three
piece wing. I have scans of the original wood list, and the few page
quote from them. I accepted the quote and they delivered it.
The wood was right on. Few pieces left over, but none shorted. You DO
have to sit down with the order and group the right pieces with the
right assembly.
But all the wood was top quality. But this was 10 years ago.
If anybody wants scans of them, let me know.
All the pencil writing on the original list is mine for my own notes. Up
to you to use or ignore.
Keep in mind it's only spruce. NO plywood. NO leading edge/trailing
edge.
But it sure flies sweet!
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Purchase
There is an Excel spreadsheet wood list for the extended fuselage
which is posted on Mykitplane:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=4
Maybe someone with a bit more experience could take a look and see if
it seems correct. It is very handy for estimating cost, as you can just
plug the current prices in and it will recalculate.
Ryan
HelsperSew@aol.com wrote:
Steve,
I would definitely NOT buy my spruce from the lumber list provided
by ACS. You are best to develop your own lumber list. BTW , ACS has
their "bargain bag of spruce" which is a very good buy. I actually
bought two of these before I was finished with my wood work. You can
make many parts out of the pieces that they send you, especially if you
have a planer.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 33
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Subject: | New Finished Fuel Tank |
Thanks Bill............
Your right it is well build and will last for many years to come. The term was
"oil canning" and they did not want that to happen when they choose the materials.
When I question the lady she mentioned a little thicker than 5/32 and I
never got a straight answer. My luck was that the shop was interested in seeing
her skills and they let her make the tank. She eventually became the hired
welder of aluminum for them.
The tank was pressured tested at 15lbs of pressure and no issues. Cost of tank
$500.00 clams! However, it is want I expected after seeing the cost of other
tanks. Only wished I was better at welding aluminum. But at least it fits my
pietenpol as my plane is a "wide body."
Now wait until you see the new fuel sight gage I am making out of misc. parts
I collected from the hardware store. I'll send photos later!
Ken
Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
Ken,
From the sounds of things, your wording is correct - you have a tank that's built
like a TANK.
Looking at your pictures I can see where the baffles are installed, and based
on your dimensions I would guess your weight to be somewhere around 25 pounds
(very rough guess).
I've never seen 5/32" aluminum (and I've been working in metal fabrication for
over 20 years). That would be an oddball thickness.
Not sure what "bucking" he was trying to avoid, but if it was "oil-canning" (tension
in the sheet caused by the welding, I wouldn't even worry about it. The
tank is hidden. As long as it holds fuel, and doesn't leak it doesn't matter
if it ain't pretty. But, now you've got a pretty tank. Make sure you test it
to make sure it doesn't leak before you put in your plane.
One thing's for sure - you'll never wear out your tank.
Bill C.
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
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Dick,
As I mentioned at Brodhead....Wonderful plane and excellent build. I am glad
to know you and you advice and assistance is wonderful. Glad to call you friend!
Ken H.
PS...with my fat hind-end, If I can come in under 1000lbs I'll be happy!
Dick Navratil <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
Ken
My plane weighs in at 810 lb. The article is mistaken on the 820lb. I could
easily have saved lots of weight but there are certain things I just wanted and
some mistakes I made.
Dick N.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Explosion
Say Dan......
Does the article or has Dick mention the weight of his Piet? Specifically the
engine..what is the weight of his engine?
Ken
HelsperSew@aol.com wrote:
Guys,
I think Dick Navatril really lit the fuse on this site with his beautiful round-engine
Piet on the cover of Sport Aviation. I bet there will be an explosion
in the attendance at Brodhead this year! So looking forward to it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
---------------------------------
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
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|
Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
That's a great picture. Takes me right back to New Jersey.
As for the wood... (and I don't mean to sound like a grump) Feel very free
to be picky and if they send you stuff that doesn't meet min specs complain
and get them to be accountable and be persistent. The last time they sent
me substandard wood their stance was that if you want the correct annualar
rings per inch and grain runout you have to request that all your wood be
cut from spar material. They are charging top dollar and probably making
money on the shipping too. Imagine what it would cost if cut from their
spar stock. It's your money and ultimately it's your butt. So, know what
you are getting and how to check the quality of what you receive. There are
some specs for grading wood on their site and in Advisory Circular 43.13. I
recommend getting a copy (I think you can download AC43.13 from the FAA
website and just look at the relevant pages. Yes..
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument)
I
found a place in Boston that sells nice rough-cut Sitka spruce boards which
you can cut and surface yourself. That's about as far from the Pacific
Northwest as you can get. ..so I'm sure there are great suppliers all over
the place.
Places I've heard mentioned are Edensaw (Corky bought wood from them I
believe). McCormicks in Wisconsin. Just don't feel like AS&S or Wicks is
the only place you can get Sitka spruce. The cost of a planer and jointer
is far less than having AS&S cut all your wood from spar. ...or you can
take whatever they send you. I'm not really down on AS&S, I just wanted to
share what I have learned over the past couple of years.
On 2/20/08, walt evans <waltdak@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> I got a lumber list from this group back in '98, submitted it to AS&S for
> a quote. This is/was for spruce for the long fuselage, and the three piece
> wing. I have scans of the original wood list, and the few page quote from
> them. I accepted the quote and they delivered it.
> The wood was right on. Few pieces left over, but none shorted. You DO
> have to sit down with the order and group the right pieces with the right
> assembly.
> But all the wood was top quality. But this was 10 years ago.
>
> If anybody wants scans of them, let me know.
> All the pencil writing on the original list is mine for my own notes. Up
> to you to use or ignore.
>
> Keep in mind it's only spruce. NO plywood. NO leading edge/trailing
> edge.
>
> But it sure flies sweet!
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> "No one ever learned anything by talking"
> Ben Franklin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@yahoo.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2008 4:48 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Purchase
>
>
> There is an Excel spreadsheet wood list for the extended fuselage which is
> posted on Mykitplane:
>
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=4
>
> Maybe someone with a bit more experience could take a look and see if it
> seems correct. It is very handy for estimating cost, as you can just plug
> the current prices in and it will recalculate.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> *HelsperSew@aol.com* wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> I would definitely NOT buy my spruce from the lumber list provided by ACS.
> You are best to develop your own lumber list. BTW , ACS has their "bargain
> bag of spruce" which is a very good buy. I actually bought two of these
> before I was finished with my wood work. You can make many parts out of the
> pieces that they send you, especially if you have a planer.
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
check out this web site for spruce
_http://www.publiclumber.com/aasitsprucve.html_
(http://www.publiclumber.com/aasitsprucve.html)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 37
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can be
used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Just noticed I made a mistake in my previous email. My spars are are
3/4-inch by 4 3/4-inch.
Also, shipping from Corona to Sacramento, $110 (estimated by them). I
cant drive down there for less then $110. Frequently I get hit with $15 to
$20 shipping on small boxes so this sounded good to me.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165264#165264
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I think it's more than his fuel tank..juuuust kidding.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA,
CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Explosion
Say Dan......
Does the article or has Dick mention the weight of his Piet? Specifically
the engine..what is the weight of his engine?
Ken
HelsperSew@aol.com wrote:
Guys,
I think Dick Navatril really lit the fuse on this site with his beautiful
round-engine Piet on the cover of Sport Aviation. I bet there will be an
explosion in the attendance at Brodhead this year! So looking forward to
it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Message 39
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|
Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
I bought the Pietenpol wood kit from ACS. The wood quality was excellent an
d
provided all the wood I needed except for all ply, rib material, leading an
d
trailing edges. My Piet is the long fuselage version.
Rick
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Catdesigns <Catdesigns@comcast.net> wrote:
t
> >
>
> Steve,
>
> I just ordered wood for my wings from Aircraft Spruce. From my review of
> the Pietenpol Air Camper spruce kit, it does not include material for the
> wing tip, leading edge or trailing edge of the wing. It also does not
> include the wing rib material. I'm not sure how well the kit matches up
> with the fuselage needs as I did not buy my fuselage wood from them.
>
> =BE-inch x 4 =BD-inch spars are used by BHP on the last plane he built an
d are
> use by many people. I was going to go with the 1-inch but decided to go w
ith
> =BE-inch (for cost) and shims at the ribs.
>
> Per the plans, the wing ribs are made form 1/4-inch x 1/2-inch. You wil
l
> need to order this separately. ACS has a note that says the ribs are buil
t
> based on the HP of your engine. This is not true for the Pietenpol. Thi
s
> must be from the Grega plans. They also sell a Grega kit so make sure you
r
> looking at the right one.
>
> If you order from then have them send you a copy of the material in the
> kit and compare it to your own list of stuff. It is rather simple to sit
> down with the plans and get a ruff estimate of what you need.
>
> By the way don't forget about plywood. You will need some for both the
> wings and fuselage.
>
> Chris
>
> --------
> Chris Tracy
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165261#165261
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
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|
Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
I am using poplar in my build and rather pleased with it from all aspects. Except
of course my newly acquired allergic reaction to it. Just my luck it takes
a few days of misery to get past the love of the build
All in all poplar is amazing stuff to work with strong, stable, readily available
fro the local wood guy and a lot less expensive. Has all the makings of perfect.
John Recine
Lititz pa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
To:<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can be
used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Just noticed I made a mistake in my previous email. My spars are are
3/4-inch by 4 3/4-inch.
Also, shipping from Corona to Sacramento, $110 (estimated by them). I
cant drive down there for less then $110. Frequently I get hit with $15 to
$20 shipping on small boxes so this sounded good to me.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165264#165264
Message 41
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Hello Gary,
My Piet is being built entirely of Douglas Fir and mostly marine
plywood.
By the way I am in Santa Rosa CA where is Cool? Southern CA?
Thanks, Jim
PS My cost for all wood less the plywood was just over $300.00 from a
local lumberyard who let my friend and I go through their stock and
select what we wanted.
Message 42
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Subject: | Re: New Finished Fuel Tank |
Loved the tank pics can't wait to see the gauge or the wide piet logo
John Recine
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Finished Fuel Tank
Thanks Bill............
Your right it is well build and will last for many years to come. The term was
"oil canning"and they did not want that to happen when they choose the materials.
WhenI question the lady she mentioned a little thicker than 5/32 and I never
got a straight answer. My luck was that the shop was interested in seeing her
skills and they let her make the tank. She eventually became the hired welder
of aluminum for them.
The tank was pressured tested at 15lbs of pressure and no issues. Cost of tank
$500.00 clams! However, it is want I expected after seeing the cost of other tanks.
Only wished I was better at welding aluminum. But at least it fits my pietenpol
as my plane is a "wide body."
Now wait until you see the new fuel sight gage I am making out of misc. parts I
collected from the hardware store. I'll send photos later!
Ken
Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
Ken,
>From the sounds of things, your wording is correct - you have a tank that's built
like a TANK.
Looking at your pictures I can see where the baffles are installed, and based on
your dimensions I would guess your weight to be somewhere around 25 pounds (very
rough guess).
I've never seen 5/32" aluminum (and I've beenworking in metal fabrication for over
20 years). That would be an oddball thickness.
Not sure what "bucking" he was trying to avoid, but if it was "oil-canning" (tension
in the sheet caused by the welding, I wouldn't even worry about it. The
tank is hidden. As long as it holds fuel, and doesn't leak it doesn't matter if
it ain't pretty. But, now you've got a pretty tank. Make sure you test it to
make sure it doesn't leak before you put in your plane.
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
Message 43
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Subject: | Spruce Purchase: |
Steve:
Make sure you purchase your spruce from AS&S. I just purchased and received
a small order of 1/4"x1/2" cap strip from Wicks. They had a 2-week order
lead time and I paid a premium price of .70 per foot, because I needed it
earlier than the 6-week order lead time AS&S was promising. The cap strip
that Wicks is selling is junk. They apparently don't know how to cut and
hold dimension. Various pieces of my order were cut too wide (1/4") to fit
in my rib jig and several were too thick (1/2") causing a lot of extra time
spent to true up the gusset surface. This was not the first time I've had
this same problem with Wicks.
The bulk of my order came two weeks later from AS&S and appears to be okay
and they're still selling it for.32 per foot.
Bill Princell -
Message 44
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Subject: | Re: Piet building |
Dick
That must be a common builders thing I too have some piet pics hanging in my shop
for inspitation. I have not seen your cover shot, I don't get the mag I am
certain they would be disapointing after seeing your build in Broadhead this past
year. Certainly an impressive piece of work and a great build an inspiration
to us all.
John Recine
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
To:<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet building
Again, thanks to all on the comments on my new plane.
I would like to remind everyone to go back to the Sport Aviation 1999 issue with
the P-51 on the cover. The pics there of Mike Cuy's Piet still are posted in
my hangar. Jack Phillips and Larry Williams also had nice spreads in the past.
Mike Cuy and Chuck Ganzer both have nice videos on building and flying the Piet.
While building watching these videos can be a great source of inspiration.
For all new builders, try to set aside time to make it to Brodhead, Wi. for the
Piet fly in. It happens just before OSH and you get to meet lots of the people
on this list.
Message 45
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Ezra. Its not a biplane!
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare
A one inch spar failing in compression from a bevel?
Brown Gravy?
"The IT Girl of the Sky?"
It must be time to level this discussion with a quote:
"I Haven't had an unlimited budget you know. It's not going to look
look like something out of a museum, all clean and dusted. I'm a
designer and I don't give a d@nm about clean. That's what's so unique
about this plane, the design. Concentrate on that. The Design. Well,
there it is, the Stiles Skystreak."
-Ezra Stiles-
You may now return to serious Pietenpol discussion.
-john (the idiot)-
Do Not Archive
Message 46
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
> considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can be
> used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
A friend in New Hampshire built a Piet some years ago, using Doug fir
instead of spruce. He found that it was significantly tail heavy, though
he was still able to balance things out by adjusting the wing position.
He said that if he were ever to build another he would user fir for the
longerons and spars, pine for the tail, wing ribs, and (I think; my
memory feels a little weak about this part) fuselage parts other than
the longerons. The Piet is so overbuilt, in his opinion, that pine would
do fine even without adjusting the sizes. It's worth noting that he is a
mechanical engineer.
Owen
Message 47
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Hemlock for everything done so far, fuse, tail feathers,
ribs and cabane struts. Close grain Fir for LG legs as
Hemlock isn't available in the proper size. I'm leaning
towards laminated fir for the spars.
It's not generaly known that many Dehaviland Mosquito's
were built with both Doug Fir and Western Hemlock as
even then Spruce was in short supply.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOhZEsIq85E&mode=related&search
http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
Go to Tools+Tips-bottom of page-for charts on wood
strength.
Clif
>
> Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
> considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can
> be
> used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
Message 48
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Subject: | Spruce Purchase: |
There is a lot to be said for buying a decent quality table saw and a planer
and a couple big hunks of wood. In the end you might have paid a little
more, but you wind up with tools that you will have for a lifetime and you
get them for a big discount after you figure what you are saving on the
wood. Not to mention the time you save during the life of the project by
having the tools handy and being able to cut down more stock that you didn't
realize you would need instead of having to order it and pay for more
shipping.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Princell
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:43 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Purchase:
Steve:
Make sure you purchase your spruce from AS&S. I just purchased and
received a small order of 1/4"x1/2" cap strip from Wicks. They had a 2-week
order lead time and I paid a premium price of .70 per foot, because I needed
it earlier than the 6-week order lead time AS&S was promising. The cap strip
that Wicks is selling is junk. They apparently don't know how to cut and
hold dimension. Various pieces of my order were cut too wide (1/4") to fit
in my rib jig and several were too thick (1/2") causing a lot of extra time
spent to true up the gusset surface. This was not the first time I've had
this same problem with Wicks.
The bulk of my order came two weeks later from AS&S and appears to be okay
and they're still selling it for.32 per foot.
Bill Princell -
Message 49
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Thanks, Owen! I am noting that a number of builders have used both fir and
poplar! I am encouraged....
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
> considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can
be
> used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
A friend in New Hampshire built a Piet some years ago, using Doug fir
instead of spruce. He found that it was significantly tail heavy, though
he was still able to balance things out by adjusting the wing position.
He said that if he were ever to build another he would user fir for the
longerons and spars, pine for the tail, wing ribs, and (I think; my
memory feels a little weak about this part) fuselage parts other than
the longerons. The Piet is so overbuilt, in his opinion, that pine would
do fine even without adjusting the sizes. It's worth noting that he is a
mechanical engineer.
Owen
Message 50
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
John,
Just wondering, are you finding it difficult to find poplar that fits the
grain description in 43.13?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AmsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
I am using poplar in my build and rather pleased with it from all aspects.
Except of course my newly acquired allergic reaction to it. Just my luck it
takes a few days of misery to get past the love of the build
All in all poplar is amazing stuff to work with strong, stable, readily
available fro the local wood guy and a lot less expensive. Has all the
makings of perfect.
John Recine
Lititz pa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
To:<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can be
used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Just noticed I made a mistake in my previous email. My spars are are
3/4-inch by 4 3/4-inch.
Also, shipping from Corona to Sacramento, $110 (estimated by them). I
cant drive down there for less then $110. Frequently I get hit with $15 to
$20 shipping on small boxes so this sounded good to me.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165264#165264
Message 51
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Cliff,
You're reading my mind. I am also interested in wood struts. Do you know of
any guidelines for laminating the struts?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Hemlock for everything done so far, fuse, tail feathers,
ribs and cabane struts. Close grain Fir for LG legs as
Hemlock isn't available in the proper size. I'm leaning
towards laminated fir for the spars.
It's not generaly known that many Dehaviland Mosquito's
were built with both Doug Fir and Western Hemlock as
even then Spruce was in short supply.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOhZEsIq85E&mode=related&search
http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
Go to Tools+Tips-bottom of page-for charts on wood
strength.
Clif
>
> Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
> considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can
> be
> used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
Message 52
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Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
John R,
Now you've got the spirit! All of life's problems can be solved
through "The Great Waldo Pepper."
Greet Strangers: "Hello Good People!"
Protect Wimminfolk: "He's a Four-Flusher Mary Beth."
Learn about culture: "Duke, into the opera singer costume"
Become a new entrepreneur: "You take this to the gas station every
time I need it and at the end of the day I'll give you a free ride."
Lessons in advertising: "I knew she wasn't worth top billing."
Learn about sharing: "Nebraska is mine!"
Return from a business trip: "Look who's home."
Advanced aircraft design: "It's gonna be a monoplane."
ALL of life's questions and problems solved.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Feb 20, 2008, at 9:00 PM, AmsafetyC@aol.com wrote:
>
> Ezra. Its not a biplane!
>
> John
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
>
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:22:29
> To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare
>
>
> >
>
> A one inch spar failing in compression from a bevel?
> Brown Gravy?
> "The IT Girl of the Sky?"
>
> It must be time to level this discussion with a quote:
>
> "I Haven't had an unlimited budget you know. It's not going to look
> look like something out of a museum, all clean and dusted. I'm a
> designer and I don't give a d@nm about clean. That's what's so unique
> about this plane, the design. Concentrate on that. The Design. Well,
> there it is, the Stiles Skystreak."
>
> -Ezra Stiles-
>
> You may now return to serious Pietenpol discussion.
>
> -john (the idiot)-
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 53
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Gary Boothe wrote:
> Thanks, Owen! I am noting that a number of builders have used both fir and
> poplar! I am encouraged....
Glad to help. FWIW, my ribs are pine. The tail feathers will be, with
the possible exception of the spars. As I think about it, my friend may
have said they needed to be stronger than pine if made to the standard
dimensions. It's long enough ago so that my memory is too far gone for
recovery.
Owen
Message 54
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Two questions. Are you laminating for looks,as in dark/light
woods or for structural reasons? Or possibly you have some
material that is too small you want to use up? Oops, that's
three. :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:36 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>
> Cliff,
>
> You're reading my mind. I am also interested in wood struts. Do you know
> of
> any guidelines for laminating the struts?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
> Dawson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:22 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>
>
> Hemlock for everything done so far, fuse, tail feathers,
> ribs and cabane struts. Close grain Fir for LG legs as
> Hemlock isn't available in the proper size. I'm leaning
> towards laminated fir for the spars.
>
> It's not generaly known that many Dehaviland Mosquito's
> were built with both Doug Fir and Western Hemlock as
> even then Spruce was in short supply.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOhZEsIq85E&mode=related&search
>
> http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
>
> Go to Tools+Tips-bottom of page-for charts on wood
> strength.
>
> Clif
>
>>
>> Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
>> considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can
>> be
>> used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, CA
>
>
> --
> 8:45 PM
>
>
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