Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:59 AM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (allthumbs)
2. 03:49 AM - Re: Skiing (Jim E)
3. 05:54 AM - Fuel tank question (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 06:58 AM - Re: Skiing (John Egan)
5. 09:29 AM - Continental engine drawing file (MikeD)
6. 10:52 AM - Re: Continental engine drawing file (bcharvet@bellsouth.net)
7. 10:56 AM - Re: All points bulletin for Jim Markle (Bill Church)
8. 11:36 AM - Re: Fuel tank question (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
9. 11:38 AM - Re: Continental engine drawing file (MikeD)
10. 12:03 PM - Engine Choice for Aircamper (DAVE CATES)
11. 02:39 PM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (Bill Church)
12. 03:17 PM - Re: Continental engine drawing file (Grover Summers)
13. 04:15 PM - Re: Continental engine drawing file (Grover Summers)
14. 05:46 PM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (Dick Navratil)
15. 05:50 PM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (Graham Hansen)
16. 05:57 PM - Re: Continental engine drawing file (MikeD)
17. 06:09 PM - Re: Engine Choice for Aircamper (MikeD)
18. 06:18 PM - Continental engine drawing file (Oscar Zuniga)
19. 06:55 PM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (allthumbs)
20. 06:58 PM - Continental engine drawing file (Oscar Zuniga)
21. 08:05 PM - Re: Continental engine drawing file (Roman Bukolt)
22. 08:56 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Alternatives (Dick Navratil)
23. 11:26 PM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (allthumbs)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
It's out there poplar is acceptable, but don't take my word for it research
further, almost the same strength to weight as spruce and almost
undetectable less shock resistance, fungi and bacteria love it, I have read that
it is FAA approved. Where I can't remember. The thing I don't understand is
the growth rings the are broader that spruce, lot's
of houses built out it around here. And it's CHEAP good stuff .75 a board
foot.
--------
Russell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166088#166088
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Hey Don,
Those look terrific! I wondered if you had a chance to use those skis yet. I
actually thought you might have got up today. Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Way
too cool!
Jim
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166091#166091
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Subject: | Fuel tank question |
Ken asks-
>Any suggestions on the set-up and hanging of the header tank in the piet?
>Is most using two strap material, belting, or ?? If so, any photos of how
>you are attaching the sides??
The 16 gal. fuel tank in 41CC was fabricated with a curved top, sloped bottom,
and "shoulder lugs" to allow it to sit on the longerons when in place. Additionally,
it is supported by two felt-padded metal straps that pass underneath and
mount to cross-members fore and aft. One of these cross-members broke at one
of the 3/16" holes where the strap was bolted through the wood, when the airplane's
gear collapsed and it went over on its nose. When I replaced the cross-member
I thought about changing the metal support straps with something like
nylon tow strap because getting the metal straps to fit the tank right was taking
some fiddling around (nothing is perfectly square), but in the end I went
ahead and replaced everything just the way Corky had it and it's that way now.
Tow strap is intentionally made with some stretch to it and I didn't want
anything to get loose over time.
I think if I were building from scratch I might see about using some seat-belt
material or something similar for the tank supports. Also, there is a metal strap
passing over the top of the fuel tank than secures it in place.
I have some pictures and will try to upload them to a webpage for you.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Don,
Please do post details regarding the ski design. I bought an old pair of wood
water skis with the thought of making them into snow skis some day by stripping
the paint off, maybe adding a layer of fiberglass and making a mount similar
to what you show. I guess it should work. Do you notice any balance differences
between the skis and wheels? I've wondered about that....
Your Piet looks great on skies. Thank you for sharing. Have fun.
john e
----- Original Message ----
From: Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:54:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skiing
Just thought I'd share a couple of shots of my day spent skiing today. Just when
I thought I had as much fun as I could have with the Piet I borrowed these
skis from Frank Pavliga. What a ball! I think I'm going to try to copy these
skis. When I get some measurements made up I could share them with others if
interested.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166044#166044
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_005_139.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_004_678.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_003_191.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_001_125.jpg
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 5
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Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
Hi folks,
I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I could scam
a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great detail, but the
basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop hub location
etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and sketch a cowl around.
Thanks!
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166133#166133
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Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
The dimensions for the motor mounts were posted a few weeks ago. I was lucky enough
to have someone give me an old crankcase that as cracked, and I used that
to mock-up my cowling. Another benefit of EAA membership!
Ben
-------------- Original message from "MikeD" <mjdt@auracom.com>: --------------
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I could
> scam a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great detail, but
> the basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop hub location
> etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and sketch a cowl
> around.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166133#166133
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html>
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<head></head>
<body>
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
<DIV></DIV>
<P>The dimensions for the motor mounts were posted a few weeks ago. I was
lucky enough to have someone give me an old crankcase that as cracked, and I
used that to mock-up my cowling. Another benefit of EAA membership! </P>
<P>Ben<BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message from "MikeD" <mjdt@auracom.com>: -------------- <BR><BR><BR>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "MikeD" <MJDT@AURACOM.COM><BR>> <BR>> Hi folks, <BR>> <BR>> I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I could <BR>> scam a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great detail, but <BR>> the basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop hub location <BR>> etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and sketch a cowl <BR>> around. <BR>> <BR>> Thanks! <BR>> <BR>> Mike <BR>> <BR>> -------- <BR>> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Read this topic online here: <BR>> <BR>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166133#166133 <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>
> <
=====
======= <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> </BLOCKQUOTE>
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</b></font></pre></body></html>
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Subject: | All points bulletin for Jim Markle |
John,
Very relieved that this story did not include any mention of you removing
items of your clothing and/or application of grease.
(now, that's got to get the newbies wondering...)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Subject: | Re: Fuel tank question |
Thank You Oscar....
I will await your photos..
Ken
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ken asks-
>Any suggestions on the set-up and hanging of the header tank in the piet?
>Is most using two strap material, belting, or ?? If so, any photos of how
>you are attaching the sides??
The 16 gal. fuel tank in 41CC was fabricated with a curved top, sloped bottom,
and "shoulder lugs" to allow it to sit on the longerons when in place. Additionally,
it is supported by two felt-padded metal straps that pass underneath and
mount to cross-members fore and aft. One of these cross-members broke at one
of the 3/16" holes where the strap was bolted through the wood, when the airplane's
gear collapsed and it went over on its nose. When I replaced the cross-member
I thought about changing the metal support straps with something like nylon
tow strap because getting the metal straps to fit the tank right was taking
some fiddling around (nothing is perfectly square), but in the end I went ahead
and replaced everything just the way Corky had it and it's that way now.
Tow strap is intentionally made with some stretch to it and I didn't want anything
to get loose over time.
I think if I were building from scratch I might see about using some seat-belt
material or something similar for the tank supports. Also, there is a metal strap
passing over the top of the fuel tank than secures it in place.
I have some pictures and will try to upload them to a webpage for you.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
> The dimensions for the motor mounts were posted a few weeks ago. I was lucky
enough to have someone give me an old crankcase that as cracked, and I used that
to mock-up my cowling. Another benefit of EAA membership!
> Ben
>
[Embarassed] Come to think of it, I don't recall searching THIS forum for motor
mount info. Shame on me. I'll see if I can find that.
Still, it would still be cool if I could save myself the work of measuring and
drawing the engine. I do want to have a drawing of it on hand.
Thanks..
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166158#166158
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Subject: | Engine Choice for Aircamper |
I recently bought an engine to use on my Piet. It is a Continental 0-200
GPU, is anyone else using one of these? I have all the typical
questions. With added power and weight should motor mount and or landing
gear be repositioned? Can I safely use one mag and the single plug (the
cylinders are drilled and taped for only one plug now).
or two mags and the single plug? What prop should I look for to run
efficiently and what kind of performance should I expect? Any help or
suggestions will be greatly appreciated. THANX Dave Cates
/ Walworth WI
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Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
Sorry,
I didn't phrase that correctly. Thanks for catching my error, Clif.
What I meant was simply that the glue joints (if done correctly) will be as
strong or stronger than the wood. Of course, a chain is only as strong as
its weakest link, so the laminated spar will never be stronger than the wood
used to build it with.
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Sorry Bill, your mixing things up. The glue joint is only
stronger when you try to pull it apart or twist it. In which case
the wood will BREAK and splinter before the glue itself
will separate ...
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
Mike,
How about a C-90 in AutoCAD format?
Grover
MikeD <mjdt@auracom.com> wrote:
Hi folks,
I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I could scam
a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great detail, but the
basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop hub location
etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and sketch a cowl around.
Thanks!
Mike
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
Mike,
I have an AutoCAD .dwg file for a C-90 engine. I'm not sure if the mounting lugs
are the same as the smaller engines. I tried to send the file to the group
but it bounced. Contact me off-line and I'll forward the file to you.
Grover
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Bill
I may be wrong about this, but I would disagree on that point as stated.
If a spar is built up of 3/4x3/34 laminations to a height of 4 1/4"
with staggered joints and grain which is alternated, the total beam will
be much stronger than the wood it is made of.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Sorry,
I didn't phrase that correctly. Thanks for catching my error, Clif.
What I meant was simply that the glue joints (if done correctly) will
be as strong or stronger than the wood. Of course, a chain is only as
strong as its weakest link, so the laminated spar will never be stronger
than the wood used to build it with.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
Dawson
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 12:55 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Sorry Bill, your mixing things up. The glue joint is only
stronger when you try to pull it apart or twist it. In which case
the wood will BREAK and splinter before the glue itself
will separate ...
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
While it is true that the strength of a laminated wooden structural
member is always limited by the strength of the wood itself, the
likelihood of having hidden defects is appreciably reduced when smaller
sections are glued together. Ergo, a laminated member can be stronger
than a one-piece solid one.
Also, select pieces can be placed at the top and bottom of a wing spar,
or beam, where the stress is greatest and lesser quality material can be
placed in between. My 1946 Taylorcraft had laminated spars and this is
exactly what they did in those days when so many lightplanes were being
built. In addition, there were beautifully-done scarf joints (without
doublers!) indicating the use of precision machinery.
I don't own that T'Craft anymore, but 62 years later it still has the
same spars with the factory splices. A testimonial to laminating and
perfect glue joints, to be sure.
On my Pietenpol I used Douglas Fir for the wing spars, duplicating the
original I - beam section by laminating 1/4 inch flange strips to a
full-depth web that is 1/2 inch thick. "Swallow tail" filler blocks were
used at fitting locations. There are no splices. Perhaps I could have
reduced the cross section size to take into account the greater strength
of DF (as compared to spruce) in order to save some weight, but I
didn't. Even so, my Piet is lighter than some at 630# dry empty weight.
BHP told me that he laminated the spars of the last airplanes he built.
I think he used Western Hemlock strips to make a rectangular cross
section. The only disadvantage of laminating, as I see it, is the extra
work involved.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
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Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
[quote="oldaeroplaneworks(at)yaho"]Mike,
I have an AutoCAD .dwg file for a C-90 engine. I'm not sure if the mounting lugs
are the same as the smaller engines. I tried to send the file to the group
but it bounced. Contact me off-line and I'll forward the file to you.
Grover
> [b]
Done! Thanks. Whether it matches or not, I would still like to have it available.
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166242#166242
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Subject: | Re: Engine Choice for Aircamper |
[quote="davecates(at)charter.net"]I recently bought an engine to use on my Piet.
It is a Continental 0-200 GPU, is anyone else using one of these? I have all
the typical questions. With added power and weight should motor mount and or
landing gear be repositioned? Can I safely use one mag and the single plug
(the cylinders are drilled and taped for only one plug now).
or two mags and the single plug? What prop should I look for to run efficiently
and what kind of performance should I expect? Any help or suggestions will
be greatly appreciated. ? THANX Dave Cates / Walworth WI
> [b]
Considering how much the Piet loves cruising above 80-85mph (not much), I'd say
based on the props used on other somewhat similar aircraft that you'd be looking
in the 72x46-48 to 74x42-44 range, and personally I'd lean to the climb end
of those choices. But wait and see what the cats drags in on this one. It seems
there may be a few around with O-200's so someone's done some testing somewhere
along the line.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166243#166243
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Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
What I have done before is to IMAGE a .jpg into an AutoCAD drawing and either trace
over the image to create the line drawing off the image (after SCALEing it,
of course, and using DRAWORDER to place the image behind the working layer
so you can see the lines you're drawing), or just using the image itself to draw
up whatever you want to fit over it. There are 3-views of the small-block
Continentals in Tony Bingelis' books, for example, as well as (I believe) Evans'
"Light Plane Designer" or whatever his book is called. You can scan those
to create your .jpgs.
Most 3-views give dimensions between mounting points or other clear dimensions
to use to SCALE the image to correct size.
When I was fabricating the new stainless firewall for 41CC, I used this technique
with a head-on digital picture of the front of the fuselage. It worked perfectly,
but the builder (me) was too smart for my own good. I forgot to notch
the corners of the lower piece of the firewall like Corky had, in order to make
it removeable. It fit like a charm with slots to slip nicely over the engine
mount points, but it's now trapped in place by the engine mount bolts. Sigh.
You would think we would be making new mistakes, but it's always the same
old ones ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
I worry about using epoxy on laminated wing spares, marine epoxy
can creep at higher temperatures, of course the wing will be painted a
light color to reflect the sun's rays. or the laminations could be tightly
clamped and some other glue used such as Gorilla glue, not near
as messy either. anyone have experience with epoxy that has a
higher temperature rating than marine epoxy such as Raka?
I think a very Strong spare would be two separate units of
birch plywood one with 90 degree grain, one normal, then cap striped with Douglas
fir
with an abundance of nails, this would be strongest and yet light
enough of any spar. The birch plywood would be scarfed spliced
at an angle having a splice two inches long in 1/8 ply this would be the
strongest in my opinion, note I haven't built a plane just planing on it.
Oh yes there would be insert pieces of wood at scarf points.
--------
Russell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166249#166249
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Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
I just looked through my resource files and located the 3-views of the small Continentals.
One of the few times that Bingelis let me down... he doesn't have
3-views of the Continentals that we want. However, Evans does have a rudimentary
3-view with key dimensions in his "Lightplane Designer's Handbook".
I would be happy to scan that one to a .jpg and upload it to my website and will
do so in the morning when I get time. I trust that Mr. Evans will not mind
me putting it out on my site, particularly since I would encourage anyone to
purchase his fine manual... it is a close second to Bingelis' books in utility
and chock-full of useful information of every sort.
Being from the old school, I had much rather look at hand-drawn line illustrations
than all the CAD drawings in the world. Another reason why I so enjoyed purchasing
Bill Rewey's packet of tips and ideas that he publishes for sale; they
are all hand-drawn. They all make great armchair reading and thinking material.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
Have you considered just purchasing an A-65 manual?
There are plenty of drawings with dimensions included.
Or did I miss something here
Roman Bukolt A-65 powered Pietenpol, NX20795
do not archive
On Feb 25, 2008, at 11:26 AM, MikeD wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where
> I could scam a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need
> great detail, but the basic views that will give me footprint,
> mounting points, prop hub location etc.. IOW what you would need to
> design an engine mount and sketch a cowl around.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166133#166133
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
I really hate to beat this subject too far, but we have to be very careful
about re-engineering a spar too much. In using plywood, unintended stresses
can be created that can cause failure. The loading has to flow over the
entire beam. The solid and laminated spars along with some box beam spars
have been proven.
Resorsinol is the only glue approved for certified aircraft. T-88 has been
widely used for a long time. Gorilla glue has been discussed on the list a
few times although I'm not aware of anyone who has actually used it.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "allthumbs" <rray032003@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 8:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives
>
> I worry about using epoxy on laminated wing spares, marine epoxy
> can creep at higher temperatures, of course the wing will be painted a
> light color to reflect the sun's rays. or the laminations could be tightly
> clamped and some other glue used such as Gorilla glue, not near
> as messy either. anyone have experience with epoxy that has a
> higher temperature rating than marine epoxy such as Raka?
> I think a very Strong spare would be two separate units of
> birch plywood one with 90 degree grain, one normal, then cap striped with
> Douglas fir
> with an abundance of nails, this would be strongest and yet light
> enough of any spar. The birch plywood would be scarfed spliced
> at an angle having a splice two inches long in 1/8 ply this would be the
> strongest in my opinion, note I haven't built a plane just planing on it.
> Oh yes there would be insert pieces of wood at scarf points.
>
> --------
> Russell
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166249#166249
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
There is a test matrix which was published in an issue of experimenter magazine
a few years back on on a glue that is the same as Gorilla glue,
The results showed comparable with other high performance glues.
The spares that I am going to build are nothing new no new or re-engineering here
they were building them that way in WW-1, birch
ply box spares that is. Roger man also uses this on his stuff.
--------
Russell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166293#166293
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