---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/01/08: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:56 AM - Design of Wood Aircraft Structures ANC-18 () 2. 04:46 AM - Re: Wood nose cowl disc (FTLovley) 3. 05:52 AM - Re: food for thought (Glenn Thomas) 4. 06:27 AM - Re: Design of Wood Aircraft Structures ANC-18 (Owen Davies) 5. 08:50 AM - my contact info for Glenn's list (Douwe Blumberg) 6. 09:16 AM - Re: my contact info for Glenn's list (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=) 7. 10:25 AM - Re: my contact info for Glenn's list (Glenn Thomas) 8. 03:39 PM - Re: Another newbie looking for advise (Jim Quinn) 9. 04:20 PM - Re: food for thought (MikeD) 10. 05:34 PM - wing calibration (Dick Navratil) 11. 05:35 PM - fuel tank thickness (Douwe Blumberg) 12. 05:37 PM - tailwheel arm (Douwe Blumberg) 13. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: food for thought (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=) 14. 05:55 PM - Re: food for thought (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 15. 06:49 PM - Re: food for thought (Gary Boothe) 16. 07:18 PM - Re: Dallas/ Ft Worth Pietenpol'ers (Jim Markle) 17. 07:25 PM - Dallas/ Ft Worth Pietenpol'ers (Jim Markle) 18. 09:40 PM - Re: food for thought (jimboyer@hughes.net) 19. 11:03 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 20. 11:05 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:02 AM PST US From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Design of Wood Aircraft Structures ANC-18 Thanks to Greg Cardinal, I have posted a PDF copy of ANC-18, Design of Wood Aircraft Structures, to my website. I have also included some pages from ANC-19, Wood Aircraft Inspection and Fabrication. http://westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm. Hopefully one day I can get a PDF of the full ANC-19. These pre-date and are more comprehensive then ANC-43-13. This is a must read for anyone who is thinking about using alternative woods and alternative spars. One thing to note, is that grain orientation is not for strength but for dimensional stability (ANC-19, 2.401). Also, something that doesn't get much press is the requirement for moisture content and specific gravity. Choose your wood wisely and do your homework first. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:40 AM PST US From: FTLovley Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood nose cowl disc In the original airplanes, Bernard used a wooden disc on the front of the cowling. It was used to make the transition from the side cowls to the nose cowl used on the Ford. The disc was fit loosely on the front of the engine, not bolted tight. The sheet metal was NAILED to the wooden disc. This was common practice in those days. Waco nailed their sheet metal on the early airplanes also. Those airplanes were not meant to last long enough to have to take it apart. It would be easy enough to make an aluminum bulkhead to join the aluminum for the Ford cowl when building one today. However, the wood worked just fine for the job it was asked to do. Forrest Lovley In a message dated 02/29/08 16:49:51 Central Standard Time, waltdak@verizon.net writes: I used the wooded disc on the nosebowl of my A65 to center the prop shaft to the fwd cowl piece. And , after removed it. If this is not the case for the Model A, I take it back. But can't imagine you'd be flying with a piece of wood in the fwd cowling. Anyone know? walt evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Pietsrneat@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 9:46 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood nose cowl disc Just an observation: In the 1933 Flying Manual and the cutaway of the Scout (page 38), it shows the wooden disc as an integral part of the cowling. I'm wondering why the Air Camper would be any different... Ron In a message dated 2/28/2008 6:48:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, waltdak@verizon.net writes: No the pine disc is used just to fabricate the cowling from the fuse forward to the prop. then the pine disc goes away, to the box of "old airplane jigs" which only brings memories in the future years. walt evans NX140DL Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:33 AM PST US From: "Glenn Thomas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: food for thought There is already a builders' directory. I can just modify the profile you fill out to include a "come visit me" checkbox. I have to add some site security because the Viagra people seem to have taken over that directory. On 3/1/08, John Recine wrote: > > AmsafetyC@aol.com> > > Glenn > > Since I am an ideas man and you have a site I welcome your offer to link > and host our flegling band of itenerate builders. We have to keep in mind > that all builders are not interested in being visited so the list you put on > the site may include all Piet builders, owners etc but the ones that are > interested in the visiting aspect our Amdassadors must be identified. > > I would really not want to contact an un willing or disinterested builder. > I find willing people are the most enjoyable to be around. Some folks are > just not interesred in sharing and hanging out with others and we need to > respect that choice. > > For me sign me up I love it > > John Recine > 635 South Broad street > Lititz, PA 17543 > AmsafetyC@aol.com > Cell 215-208-8309 > > Thanks all for your support and thanks Glenn for hosting > > John > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Glenn Thomas" > > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:25:46 > To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: food for thought > > > I'm all for that. It could be easily be added to the builder's directory > on my site which I am going to fix once and for all tonight or sometime this > weekend. Should I do it? All I have to do is add a check box (contact for > visits). I almost met Jim Markle when he was in Boston once. The > scheduling didn't work out but would have been fun. > > I know what you mean by traveling, eating alone, working in the hotel, > etc. Good to break that chain with a Pietenpol meetup. ...which is likely > the way we're scattered pretty randomly. > > On 2/29/08, AMsafetyC@aol.com < > AMsafetyC@aol.com > wrote: > > > As many of you know from reading the posts of myself and our Ambassador > Jim Markel, many of us have to travel for the unenviable goal of earning a > living. For anyone engaged in such activities it is a known fact that there > is no glamour, excitement or intense desire to live in a hotel room rather > than work on our own builds. > > The more interesting alternative to dinner by ones self and an evening of > work is to visit another builder chat and consume some type of appropriate > beverage adult or not over a smack or even pitchers and pizza, as I have > heard has been done on an occasion or 2. > > Thus I am proposing that those interested in opening up their hangars, > garages, basements, shops or home for a Pietenpol visitor > > Place their name and contact information on a list as to allow an inbound > visitor to make contact to discuss projects , methods and to share a few > hours with a brother builder. Obviously the list is voluntary so anyone not > interested need not participate anyone is welcome to participate in the > sharing without obligation I or we just thought it would be good to have > such a list the a weary traveler may use to make contact while in the area. > > I would be interested in hearing your thoughts and suggestions on how to > accomplish that task. > > John Recine > > Lititz PA > > The consummate newbee builder,always something I can learn ! > > > ---------------- > Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL > Living. < > http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598 > > > > > -- > Glenn Thomas > Storrs, CT > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:41 AM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Design of Wood Aircraft Structures ANC-18 catdesigns@att.net wrote: > Thanks to Greg Cardinal, I have posted a PDF copy of ANC-18, Design of > Wood Aircraft Structures, to my website. I have also included some > pages from ANC-19, Wood Aircraft Inspection and Fabrication. > http://westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm. Hopefully one day I can > get a PDF of the full ANC-19. Way to go, Greg and Cris! Thanks. Owen ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:42 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: my contact info for Glenn's list Glenn, Thanks for hosting the list, and john for thinking up the idea. I'd suggest this be a list specifically for people who enjoy talking Piets, or visitors.. seems to make sense. Douwe Blumberg (pronounced Dow) douweblumberg@earthlink.net 805 573 3564 3175 Hwy 467 DeMossville, KY 41033 Ford piet, 90% done visitors welcome (just south of cincinatti, near little Gene Snyder airport) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my contact info for Glenn's list From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" Dow I agree I just did not want to piss off the others. I agree we should be listed as visitors and hosts seperate and distinct fro the all group. Its not for everyone! John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" To:"pietenpolgroup" Subject: Pietenpol-List: my contact info for Glenn's list Glenn, Thanks for hosting the list, and john for thinking up the idea. I'd suggest this be a list specifically for people who enjoy talking Piets, or visitors.. seems to make sense. Douwe Blumberg (pronounced Dow) douweblumberg@earthlink.net 805 573 3564 3175 Hwy 467 DeMossville, KY 41033 Ford piet, 90% done visitors welcome ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:00 AM PST US From: "Glenn Thomas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my contact info for Glenn's list You must really be tired of hearing people call you Dewey! :) I'll try and come up with something that makes it easy for users. Once I get it done I'll solicit feedback and then finalize. ...but today is tail feathers day. One has to keep their priorities straight. I should be able to get something finished this weekend though. Thanks On 3/1/08, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > Glenn, > > Thanks for hosting the list, and john for thinking up the idea. I'd > suggest this be a list specifically for people who enjoy talking Piets, or > visitors.. seems to make sense. > > Douwe Blumberg (pronounced Dow) > douweblumberg@earthlink.net > 805 573 3564 > 3175 Hwy 467 > DeMossville, KY 41033 > Ford piet, 90% done visitors welcome > (just south of cincinatti, near little Gene Snyder airport) > > * > > * > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:51 PM PST US From: "Jim Quinn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise Hi Jack, I called them and they said they had 1 x 6 boards, 20' long; along with birch plywood. That's allot of ripping. Thanks, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise Jim, Have you considered McCormick Lumber in Madison? I heard they got a new load of rough sawn spruce in. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:19 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: food for thought From: "MikeD" Glenn Thomas wrote: > There is already a builders' directory. I can just modify the profile you fill out to include a "come visit me" checkbox. I have to add some site security because the Viagra people seem to have taken over that directory. > > Glenn > I guess it found "builders" and "erectors" :? side by side in a thesaurus somewhere and you became spam fodder. I don't think anyone would mind a sign in procedure. Mike -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167160#167160 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:19 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing calibration Today was an absolutly nice day over Mn and West Wi. In Mn speak that is any day over 30 degrees with a wind under 20 mph. I went to the hangar early with a digital level. I havent re balanced my wings on Piet #1 since I built it 4 years ago. I had used the method of measuring the wing to floor at cockpit and then at tips to find 1 inch of washout at tips. With the level, I was able to get the exact angle at cockpit then add exactly 1/2 degree washout at tips. I took it out for a flight for over an hour, the difference is amazing. Most noticably is how much better the power off glide is. It all around handles better and the climb is also better. Now I have to go back and re trim the horiz stab a bit. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:47 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank thickness I'm thinking of making a tank using stainless steel. What is the thinnest gauge I could use? Douwe ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:26 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel arm Hey guys, I know I asked this a while ago, but I lost the email. Can some of you tell me the distance between the holes in your tailwheel control arm/horn? Trying to figure out where's a good place to start, probably take the numbers you give me and drill a few holes so I can move things. I know some of you attach to the rudder, some to the rudder cables, and some to the rudder bar. I want to attach to either the cables or the rudder bar. Attaching to the cables seems cleaner and less weight, but seems like it might add some odd deflection to the rudder cables. On the other hand, I kind of hate adding more stuff on the floor of the cockpit if I run it to the bar, though this does allow me to fine tune how much the wheel turns. All thoughts and experiences are appreciated! Douwe ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: food for thought From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" I would welcome a sign in, helps keep the rifraf out. Just my never to be humble opinion. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "MikeD" To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: food for thought Glenn Thomas wrote: > There is already a builders' directory. I can just modify the profile you fill out to include a "come visit me" checkbox. I have to add some site security because the Viagra people seem to have taken over that directory. > > Glenn > I guess it found "builders" and "erectors" :? side by side in a thesaurus somewhere and you became spam fodder. I don't think anyone would mind a sign in procedure. Mike -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167160#167160 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:04 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: food for thought Gary, I get to the LA area a few times a year just nothing up north even though I sure do love the wine country. Any place to meet is good, where else do you go? who knows maybe we can meet during travel and crack open a box of that great Napa wine. John **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:04 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: food for thought John, If you draw a big circle from Reno, down to Las Vegas, west to San Diego, up to Medford, OR, and back down to Reno - that's my world, plus some occasional trips into Mexico, Idaho and Utah. I'd love to meet up with some of you, or some of the other road warriors. It was Jim Boyer who offered to break open the wine barrel with some one. He lives in the heart of the whine.I mean wine country. I am happy to report to all that I got my elevators glued up today, including gussets. All went smoothly, and tomorrow I'll do the trimming and shaping. Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: food for thought Gary, I get to the LA area a few times a year just nothing up north even though I sure do love the wine country. Any place to meet is good, where else do you go? who knows maybe we can meet during travel and crack open a box of that great Napa wine. John _____ Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:23 PM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dallas/ Ft Worth Pietenpol'ers I'll be in Dallas (Addison, actually) on Wed-Fri, March 19-21. Maybe we can get together with Max Davis and go up and check on Jeff Hill's Pietenpol progress... Jim Markle ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dallas/ Ft Worth Pietenpol'ers Fellow Pietenpol'ers, I am going to be in Dallas the week of March 17-20. If possible I would like to meet up with any of the Texas Piet'ers in the Dallas /Ft Worth Area. I will Get down there Monday the 17th after noon or so,and would love to get togeather with any of the fellow piet builders or flyers. My job is sending me down for the Aviation Maintenence Expo at the Dallas Convention Center the wek of March 17. If there are any takers let me know, I would love to meet some fellow Pieters in the Lone Star State. Shad Bell NX92GB ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:01 PM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dallas/ Ft Worth Pietenpol'ers I'll be in Dallas (Addison, actually) on Wed-Fri, March 19-21. Maybe we can get together with Max Davis and go up and check on Jeff Hill's Pietenpol progress... Jim Markle ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dallas/ Ft Worth Pietenpol'ers Fellow Pietenpol'ers, I am going to be in Dallas the week of March 17-20. If possible I would like to meet up with any of the Texas Piet'ers in the Dallas /Ft Worth Area. I will Get down there Monday the 17th after noon or so,and would love to get togeather with any of the fellow piet builders or flyers. My job is sending me down for the Aviation Maintenence Expo at the Dallas Convention Center the wek of March 17. If there are any takers let me know, I would love to meet some fellow Pieters in the Lone Star State. Shad Bell NX92GB ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:23 PM PST US From: "jimboyer@hughes.net" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: food for thought Hi Gary, Good going on the elevators Gary. I reamed the holes in four of the motor mount fitting and got the top motor mount fittings (4 pieces) mounted to the fuselage (8 holes drilled). Will work on the bottom fittings this coming week. Cheers, Jim Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:19 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. 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The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:57 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.