Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - Re: Re: Spruce Alternatives (Clif Dawson)
2. 01:01 AM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (allthumbs)
3. 04:24 AM - visitors welcome and Brodhead (Douwe Blumberg)
4. 04:46 AM - Re: Power setting question. ()
5. 04:48 AM - Re: Power setting question. ()
6. 05:04 AM - Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead (gcardinal)
7. 05:15 AM - Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead (HelsperSew@aol.com)
8. 05:59 AM - Aileron Question (Jack T. Textor)
9. 07:18 AM - Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead (Rick Holland)
10. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: Spruce Alternatives (Owen Davies)
11. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Spruce Alternatives (Owen Davies)
12. 10:08 AM - Re: fuel tank thickness (Bill Church)
13. 10:26 AM - Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets (montanacos)
14. 10:36 AM - Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead (bhassel)
15. 11:17 AM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (bhassel)
16. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead (Ryan Mueller)
17. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: Spruce Alternatives ()
18. 11:38 AM - Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead (bhassel)
19. 11:38 AM - Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets (Owen Davies)
20. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Alternatives (Phillips, Jack)
21. 12:38 PM - Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets (Ryan Mueller)
22. 01:48 PM - straight axle and wheels for sale (Douwe Blumberg)
23. 01:54 PM - Re: Aileron Question (walt evans)
24. 02:14 PM - Re: Aileron Question (Jack T. Textor)
25. 02:22 PM - Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets (Bill Church)
26. 02:23 PM - Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets (Jim Markle)
27. 02:23 PM - Re: straight axle and wheels for sale (Robert Gow)
28. 02:52 PM - Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir (Catdesigns)
29. 03:20 PM - Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets (Steve Eldredge)
30. 03:24 PM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (Catdesigns)
31. 03:37 PM - Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets ()
32. 03:37 PM - Re: Aileron Question (walt evans)
33. 06:00 PM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (bhassel)
34. 06:09 PM - Brodhead questions (Ben Charvet)
35. 06:18 PM - Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets (Dick Navratil)
36. 06:50 PM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (allthumbs)
37. 06:54 PM - Re: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets (Skip Gadd)
38. 07:15 PM - Re: Brodhead questions (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=)
39. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Alternatives (Owen Davies)
40. 08:25 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Alternatives (Gary Boothe)
41. 08:52 PM - Re: Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir (Gary Boothe)
42. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: Spruce Alternatives (Ryan Mueller)
43. 11:23 PM - Re: Spruce Alternatives (allthumbs)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Hey Russel, there's no reference to what the exact
statement is that you are disagreeing with.
You are right in your assessment of a box spar with
45 grain orientation in the ply web. In this you have
created a continuous triangulated truss.
I made up an experimental board with three fish scales
to see how this triangulation works. One scale parallel
to the long direction of a "beam" . One at 45 and one
to pull both of those, again pulling parallel to the beam.
The parallel load drops quite a bit. I can't remember the
percentages, it was a couple of years ago now.
Here in Canada I would have to have the box inspected
as a stand alone assembly with one side open. Once
passed the box could be closed up. The inspection
costs money so that would eat up a lot of the gains in
material cost over a solid spar and in my situation cost
would be my only reason for doing the extra work. Now
an I beam or the English style is not a closed assembly so
it wouldn't require the extra inspection.
With laminations are we all thinking the same thing.
To me this means that there are a number of pieces
of solid wood glued together to make a larger board.
Each piece has the grain running parallel to the long
length of each strip. The end grain will be at some angle
between 90 and 180 depending on the choice of the
builder. Whatever that choice is decided on as being
right or reasonably acceptable. That choice for me
would depend on how many laminations were used.
If it was two or three or six in a 1" X 4 3/4" spar I
would want the grain parallel or reasonably so, to
the 1" side. If the laminations were 1/4" X 1" the
individual orientation is much less significant as
each lamination of this small size becomes a "grain"
in it's own right. As such they make the overall board
quarter grain which limits the possibility of warping.
In any case the strength will be equal to a solid board
of the same material with the same "Perfect Board"
condition as stated by Russell.
Clif
>
> I have to disagree, what makes the box beam better is using plywood
> that has grain orientation running 45 degrees with the parallel grain.
> This puts wood fibers in tension in shear which makes a stronger beam.
> Can be built lighter and stronger. Lamination of wood have the same
> strength as a perfect piece of wood that has no flaws. Or it could depend
> on how the laminate is done.
>
> --------
> Russell
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Now a question, regular Finnish birch, phenol resin glue, 1/8 (3 mm)
cut in strips diagonally across the plywood board at spars width.
this would make all grain run at 45 degree, thats glued to 1' by 1 1/4'
fir cap stripe, then another regular 90 degree piece on the other
side, the splices would be scarfed to 1' and glued. anyone see
anything wrong with this? There would be some waste material however
this could be used else where as gussets. Two sides of the box spar
one regular grain and one that has all grain with a 45 degree orientation.
There would be webbing at spar locations and double width at cross
brace points.
--------
Russell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167364#167364
Message 3
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Subject: | visitors welcome and Brodhead |
Since we obviously have a social crowd who likes to visit, I extend a
welcome to any visitors who ever get to the Cincinatti, Louisville or
Lexington area. My piet is a Ford, straight gear, 90% done, engine
running on stand. I am just south of Cincinatti off the 75/71 split,
1.25 hours from Louisville or Lexington.
I would second the plug for Brodhead. Since we have so many new people
who havn't been, let me think of a good way to put this...
YOU MUST COME TO BRODHEAD!!!
It is truly a wonderful place, filled with wonderful people, and the
wonderful airplanes we love. You can see ten different ways builders
have done things, talk to them, spend all day watching them fly, catch a
ride or two and take pictures galore. It is also a great way to cement
the comradarie which has always been rather unique to the Piet crowd,
and it'll give you that boost to get you through another year of
building. It's kind of like the Piet builders yearly shot in the arm to
keep running towards the finish line!!
Douwe
Message 4
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Subject: | Power setting question. |
So your saying that with full power at take off we are running the risk
of an engine shut down?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Baker
Sent: February 28, 2008 6:02 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
<dick@aerovisiontech.com>
Full power setting enriches the mixture to prevent detonation.
Dick Baker
www.aerovisiontech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
Don't remember any instructor I've flown with not asking for full power
on
takeoff.
Still remember learning in the '60's, with my instructor Dick Plahn
(WWII,
P51,P38,P39,P40, B25) Calling out from the right seat of a 172 "full
throttle, feet off the brakes"
More power just means you can yank that nose up really high.
walt evans
NX140DL
4:34 PM
4:34 PM
Message 5
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Subject: | Power setting question. |
So your saying rev higher during cruise and I'll get better milage?
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide,
BA, CPO, FAAOP
Sent: February 28, 2008 4:31 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
Harvey,
If you put 6 more revolutions on that rubber band it will improve gas
milage three fold! The Franklin uses a 3/4" fuel line doesn't it? I know
now why you were buying BP fuel stock....
Ken
harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote:
My Piet cruises at 85- 90(2200 rpm);usually climbs out at 60
(2500 rpm)and top speed is about 95-97(2500 rpm on the flat).Uses 85 hp
Franklin.Uses a lot of gas.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad
bell
Sent: February 28, 2008 8:28 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
Tim, don't worry about the extra power. Too much power is not a
problem, however too much airspeed (anything over 90mph or so) is a bad
thing in a Piet. I saw 2 piets at Brodhead last year with 0-200's and
no worries. Ours is a 100 HP corvair, and it climbs out nice at full
power, and gets a good 75mph cruise. Wide open gets about 85-90mph.
85 is about as fast as is comfortable in our piet. Use the engine and
don't worry, the power will make it a "Bush Piet - STOL".
My 2 cents
Shad
NX92GB
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead |
And don't forget to wear a nametag at Brodhead........
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 6:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: visitors welcome and Brodhead
Since we obviously have a social crowd who likes to visit, I extend a
welcome to any visitors who ever get to the Cincinatti, Louisville or
Lexington area. My piet is a Ford, straight gear, 90% done, engine
running on stand. I am just south of Cincinatti off the 75/71 split,
1.25 hours from Louisville or Lexington.
I would second the plug for Brodhead. Since we have so many new
people who havn't been, let me think of a good way to put this...
YOU MUST COME TO BRODHEAD!!!
It is truly a wonderful place, filled with wonderful people, and the
wonderful airplanes we love. You can see ten different ways builders
have done things, talk to them, spend all day watching them fly, catch a
ride or two and take pictures galore. It is also a great way to cement
the comradarie which has always been rather unique to the Piet crowd,
and it'll give you that boost to get you through another year of
building. It's kind of like the Piet builders yearly shot in the arm to
keep running towards the finish line!!
Douwe
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead |
About Brodhead:
I will be there with my Aeronca Sedan available to give a mini flying lesson
to anyone that hasn't flown before and wants to, or anyone that just wants
to go up and see the field from the air (free of course). This is all
dependent on the WX of course. Last year I was able to do this and I'm sure it
was
much appreciated. I myself learned about a thousand new things. You need to
come back every year during the building process, because at every new stage
you will need to solve a bunch of new problems. I am very fortunate to only
live about 40 mi. away as the crow flies.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 8
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Subject: | Aileron Question |
Good morning,
I have my left wing pretty much completed, ribs glued, mid compression
struts glued, tip bolted (not glued), strut braces formed, leading and
trailing edges on. The wing is good and square. Do I need to trammel
and put the drag and anti-drag wire in before I start on the aileron?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead |
And as someone mentioned, you always getting multiple different answers to
build questions and you have to figure out what is BS and what isn't. At
Broadhead you can talk to people who have built and have been flying Piets
for decades (and in some cases build multiple Piets). It will give you real
piece of mind to know that the way you are building yours has been flight
proven for hundreds of hours.
Rick
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> Since we obviously have a social crowd who likes to visit, I extend a
> welcome to any visitors who ever get to the Cincinatti, Louisville or
> Lexington area. My piet is a Ford, straight gear, 90% done, engine running
> on stand. I am just south of Cincinatti off the 75/71 split, 1.25 hours
> from Louisville or Lexington.
>
> I would second the plug for Brodhead. Since we have so many new people
> who havn't been, let me think of a good way to put this...
> YOU MUST COME TO BRODHEAD!!!
>
> It is truly a wonderful place, filled with wonderful people, and the
> wonderful airplanes we love. You can see ten different ways builders have
> done things, talk to them, spend all day watching them fly, catch a ride or
> two and take pictures galore. It is also a great way to cement the
> comradarie which has always been rather unique to the Piet crowd, and it'll
> give you that boost to get you through another year of building. It's kind
> of like the Piet builders yearly shot in the arm to keep running towards the
> finish line!!
>
> Douwe
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
allthumbs wrote:
> Now a question, regular Finnish birch, phenol resin glue, 1/8 (3 mm)
> cut in strips diagonally...
Why does everyone have this pathological need to "improve" something
beyond all possible reason?
Okay, the simple spruce plank has become untenably expensive. According
to Best's calculations--which I am not prepared to dispute or defend but
am willing to accept at face value until someone brings them into
serious question--a simple I-beam spar with a 90-degree sheer web should
be not only cheap, light, and easy, but even stronger than something
that has been plenty strong enough for nearly 70 years. It sounds good
enough to me. And that's the only criterion that means anything: good
enough.
Want it strong, not quite so light, not quite so easy, and not quite so
cheap, but thoroughly tested and certified by a group that is authorized
to do such things? Use the PFA semi-box version. I am actually thinking
about doing so myself.
Want it not quite so light as the I-beam, with lots of scarfing,
inefficient use of materials (by the criterion above), etc.? 45-degree
ply has it all. But at least it will probably be strong enough for
advanced aerobatics. In your Piet.
Actually, I can see one really interesting use for 45-degree sheer webs.
Let's all build cantilever Piets. Get rid of those darned struts!
Probably add 1, maybe even 2 knots to our cruise. St. Bernie would have
loved...er, well, maybe he wouldn't.
Owen
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Owen Davies wrote:
> allthumbs wrote:
Graceless as it is to respond to one's own message, it seems necessary
to point out: allthumbs, I did not mean to pick on you individually. I'm
sorry if it seemed that way.
We all have this odd compulsion to overcomplicate things. I have done it
as much as anyone. But let's all take a moment to remember that we
aren't building a Pitts here, or even a Jodel. Low and slow, cheap and
easy. Add cost and complexity only if our vision truly requires it, not
because we just can't leave well enough alone.
Could it be time for a reality check? Everyone who is not building
exactly to plans, let's peer into our hearts and see whether our current
design choices really fit with our original vision of a Pietenpol, much
less St. Bernie's vision. No need to share with the group. But I'm
guessing that what you find won't involve weather radar, a G meter, box
spars with 45-degree sheer webs, or any other needless complexity.
Incidentally, note that glue is a whole lot heavier than wood. It does
not take all that many laminations before the weight of the glue makes
for an uncommonly heavy spar.
Owen
Message 12
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Subject: | fuel tank thickness |
Douwe,
I remember a discussion about this from about a year ago, so I looked up a
posting I made back then. Here it is:
The most likely reason for choosing aluminum over stainless steel is
weight. On a volumetric basis, stainless steel weighs almost 3 times as
much as aluminum. The typical aluminum tank seems to be made from .040"
thick aluminum. This thickness can be TIG welded successfully (by a
skilled welder) to produce a leak-proof tank. The thinnest stainless
steel that can practically be welded (again, by a skilled TIG welder) is
probably 22ga (.031" thick) or 20ga (.037").
Without doing any accurate calculations, it looks like the typical nose
tank (like Mike Cuy's sketch) might have about 20 square feet of
surface. Aluminum weighs .563 pounds per square foot for .040"
thickness, and T304 stainless steel weighs 1.27 pounds per sq.ft. for
.031" thickness. The aluminum tank would weigh about 11 pounds, whereas
the stainless tank would weigh about 25 1/2 pounds. That's a 14+ pound
penalty. (If you choose 20ga st.st. add an additional 5 pounds.)
So, to answer your question directly, the thinnest gauge that is weldable by
the average skilled welder of stainless steel is probably 20ga. That will
probably be the limiting factor.
Whether you want an extra 20 pounds in your plane is another question.
Bill
Message 13
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Subject: | Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets |
I have followed this site for years, and have been wanting to start building an
airplane with a corvair engine for a long time. I posted several years ago after
finishing a house and was hoping to start building soon. Well, plans get
pushed back, and I built another house weekends and evenings and still am hoping
to start building something fun. Of course, I have a young family and money
is an issue.
I have not been blessed with a pilots build however. I am about 255 lbs, and with
diet and exercise, I could comfortably loose 15 to 20 lbs. So I am never
going to be the 140 lbs that makes flying a small airplane with a passenger nice
and easy. Building material weight is also an issue. I need to build light,
but if I can compromise a little on weight, then maybe I can afford to get
in the air on my limited budget.
My question is on the finished weights of two similar Piet's, one of spruce, and
one of douglas fir. I have a brother who works at a planer here in Montana
and they get lots of douglas fir. He said that he could set aside the nice vertical
grain fir if I am interested. This would significantly cut down on the
cost, and I would be able to start the construction as soon as I purchase the
plans. I have the Flying and Glider Manual that covers the Piet, and have thought
of drawing the rib on autocad and building the ribs until I purchase the
complete set of drawings including the long fuse for the corvair engine. I don't
think there would be any copy right issues with that approach since the information
I have comes from the Flying and gliders manual.
Thanks in advance and I hope to start soon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167422#167422
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Subject: | Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead |
Not that I'll have much of a chance to make it all the way up to Brodhead, but
when is it this year?
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167426#167426
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
I've worked some with metal and some with composites/fiberglass/MSG but this wood
stuff is new to me.
I'd like to find a workable solution because of the expense of the spruce and getting
it all the way down here in the southwest. Of course living in the desert
southwest means aircraft wood is not a naturally occurring entity.
I'm not sure I can keep all of my brain cells aligned in this discussion but please
don't let it stop. If I could go down to my local Lowe's and find reasonably
priced/acceptable wood (still learning that one as well) I'd love it!
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167432#167432
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Subject: | Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead |
Bob,
It's the weekend preceding the start of Oshkosh. July 25-27. You can get this info
(and all sorts of pics and news) from the EAA 431 website:
http://www.eaa431.org/
Brodhead is an absolutely perfect airport. 3 grass runways (with the main runway
being the only one open during most fly-ins), just south of a small town in
Wisconsin. Sitting in a lawn chair just off the active and watching the airplanes
on a beautiful summer day is just about as good as it gets. And there are
so many interesting people and airplanes based there....it's almost criminal.
Ryan
Not that I'll have much of a chance to make it all the way up to Brodhead, but
when is it this year?
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167426#167426
---------------------------------
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Wood is just a composite material with a grain in it.Some good ones
,some bad ones.All are good for something even if its just for a fire.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bhassel
Sent: March 3, 2008 2:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives
I've worked some with metal and some with composites/fiberglass/MSG but
this wood stuff is new to me.
I'd like to find a workable solution because of the expense of the
spruce and getting it all the way down here in the southwest. Of course
living in the desert southwest means aircraft wood is not a naturally
occurring entity.
I'm not sure I can keep all of my brain cells aligned in this discussion
but please don't let it stop. If I could go down to my local Lowe's and
find reasonably priced/acceptable wood (still learning that one as well)
I'd love it!
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167432#167432
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Subject: | Re: visitors welcome and Brodhead |
thanks!
I noticed the new site for the BPA on there as well - two new favorites!
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167439#167439
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas |
Fir Piets
montanacos wrote:
> My question is on the finished weights of two similar Piet's, one of spruce,
and one of douglas fir.
Some years ago, a friend built a Piet out of Douglas fir. I can't
remember how much it weighed, though I believe it was a bit heavier than
some. He did say that it wound up tail heavy and that if he were to
build another he would use fir only for the most heavily stressed pieces
and pine for pretty much anything else. He specifically said he'd use
fir only for the spars in the tail and pine for the rest of the empennage.
One online source (http://www.geocities.com/steamgen/woodweights.pdf)
says that Sitka spruce is about 28 lb per cubic foot, while Doug fir
ranges from 30 lb to 34 lb per cubic foot, depending on where it grew.
It's been ages since I last saw the FPL data, but this sounds right.
This is not precisely on point, but a builder named Graham Hansen wrote
in the archives (see the quote on 2003-01-05; I couldn't find the
original message) that he had built both a wood Piet and one with a
steel-tube frame, and the steel turned out to be 35 - 40 lb lighter.
It's probably cheaper, too, if you use modern ERW tube instead of 4130
or whatever Mr. Pietenpol found locally. (This should be an acceptable
substitution. According to the Flying and Glider Manual, a competent
engineer found the tube design to be way overbuilt.)
I will be going this route, both to save weight and money and because I
really enjoy welding and will need the practice for my next project, a
Wittman Buttercup. There will be a part of me that says it isn't really
a Pietenpol, even though the conversion was done by the original
designer, but I can live with that. I believe that Mr. Pietenpol would
understand.
Owen
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
One thing to bear in mind when trying to find all these alternatives to
spruce is that the total cost of the wood, whether aircraft grade Sitka
Spruce or Home Depot pine (Fisherman Ray, are you still out there?), is
a small fraction of the total cost of the project. My Pietenpol is
built exclusively of aircraft grade spruce, and aircraft grade mahogany
and birch plywood from both Aircraft Spruce & Specialty and Wicks
(neither of which are exactly cheap). The total cost of the wood in my
airplane was around $1,000. The total cost of the airplane was about
$14,000. And that was spaced out over 6 years of building (I frequently
tell people my airplane cost me the same amount a 2-pack a day smoker
would have spent on cigarettes in the same time frame).
Let's assume that if you use alternative woods you can build the whole
airplane with $200 worth of wood. If I had done that, my plane would
have cost me $13,200 instead of $14,000, a whopping 5.71% change. To
each his own, but for me, I prefer knowing that I have the best, safest
and lightest material holding my butt up in the air.
In the total cost of the airplane, the cost of the wood is almost
insignificant - even if you use the expensive aircraft grade spruce.
When you add that fact to the idea that you can order spars, capstrips
and longerons already planed to the exact size you need it becomes even
more attractive. The chance of finding lumberyard wood that is already
planed to the exact thickness you need is pretty remote. So if you use
alternates, that means borrowing or buying a planer and spending many
hours just producing the material rather than actually building.
Besides, spruce works so nicely. It doesn't smell like turpentine like
Douglas fir does, and it doesn't splinter easily. There's a reason
airplanes have been built of spruce since the beginning of aviation.
Lastly, even though you think you'll never sell your Pietenpol, if you
do have to sell it, the fact that you built it from aircraft grade
materials can yield you a higher price.
Remember - "Simplicate and add Lightness" A light airplane flies
better.
Okay - I'm off my soapbox (which was built of spruce as well)
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bhassel
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives
I've worked some with metal and some with composites/fiberglass/MSG but
this wood stuff is new to me.
I'd like to find a workable solution because of the expense of the
spruce and getting it all the way down here in the southwest. Of course
living in the desert southwest means aircraft wood is not a naturally
occurring entity.
I'm not sure I can keep all of my brain cells aligned in this discussion
but please don't let it stop. If I could go down to my local Lowe's and
find reasonably priced/acceptable wood (still learning that one as well)
I'd love it!
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
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Subject: | Re: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas |
Fir Piets
According to the text of an article in the EAA Aircraft Building Techniques: Wood
book, fir is approximately 26% heavier than spruce.
Say a Piet built from spruce was 680 lbs. If you built the whole thing from fir
(without reducing dimensions), it would be 826. Based on those calcs....
montanacos wrote:
> My question is on the finished weights of two similar Piet's, one of spruce,
and one of douglas fir.
Some years ago, a friend built a Piet out of Douglas fir. I can't
remember how much it weighed, though I believe it was a bit heavier than
some. He did say that it wound up tail heavy and that if he were to
build another he would use fir only for the most heavily stressed pieces
and pine for pretty much anything else. He specifically said he'd use
fir only for the spars in the tail and pine for the rest of the empennage.
One online source (http://www.geocities.com/steamgen/woodweights.pdf)
says that Sitka spruce is about 28 lb per cubic foot, while Doug fir
ranges from 30 lb to 34 lb per cubic foot, depending on where it grew.
It's been ages since I last saw the FPL data, but this sounds right.
This is not precisely on point, but a builder named Graham Hansen wrote
in the archives (see the quote on 2003-01-05; I couldn't find the
original message) that he had built both a wood Piet and one with a
steel-tube frame, and the steel turned out to be 35 - 40 lb lighter.
It's probably cheaper, too, if you use modern ERW tube instead of 4130
or whatever Mr. Pietenpol found locally. (This should be an acceptable
substitution. According to the Flying and Glider Manual, a competent
engineer found the tube design to be way overbuilt.)
I will be going this route, both to save weight and money and because I
really enjoy welding and will need the practice for my next project, a
Wittman Buttercup. There will be a part of me that says it isn't really
a Pietenpol, even though the conversion was done by the original
designer, but I can live with that. I believe that Mr. Pietenpol would
understand.
Owen
---------------------------------
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Subject: | straight axle and wheels for sale |
Hi guys,
I mentioned this before and had some interest, but at the time I wanted
more for them (what I have in them) than what anyone wanted to pay.
I have to build a new set of wheels with brakes, so if anyone wants a
complete, ready to go, brakeless straight axle with two beautiful wire
wheels, email me and I'll send photos.
They are very unique and classic. They are 28" smooth high pressure
clincher tire, which is a WW1 era tire, which is what the first Piets
used. Tubes and tires are easily available. The wheels use a steel
rim, stainless steel spokes laced up by Buchannans. Hub is of classic
design using bronze bushings and a grease fitting for lube. The axle is
the standard 4130 tube, 6' long, 1.5" od
Can send pics.
Douwe
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Subject: | Re: Aileron Question |
Jack,
Yes, If I remember correctly, the wing gets trammeled with all the wires
tensioned, the ailerons are then built with in the wing, with all the
aileron spars and structure bracing.
(Stands to reason that the ribs and spars are perfect before gluing all
the things in the ailerons to make them final.)
THEN,,,the ailerons are cut from the wing proper with a small saw, the
edges finished, and then the hinges layed out and fastened.
When the hinges are attached, the aileron has to be in the same
position, as if it were never cut out.
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 8:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Question
Good morning,
I have my left wing pretty much completed, ribs glued, mid compression
struts glued, tip bolted (not glued), strut braces formed, leading and
trailing edges on. The wing is good and square. Do I need to trammel
and put the drag and anti-drag wire in before I start on the aileron?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
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Subject: | Aileron Question |
Walt,
Thanks for the reply. It stands to reason I should put the leading edge
ply on also after bracing, correct? On another note, would you
recommend 2" (piano) hinges for the ailerons?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
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Subject: | Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas |
Fir Piets
Not so fast there, young fella...
The 680 pounds includes a whole lot more than spruce (or fir). That weight
includes all the plywood, glue, metal fittings, fabric, paint, cables,
fittings, wheels, and among other things, an ENGINE.
Using Fir won't add that much to the weight to the finished plane. But this
is a small plane, and whatever the weight difference is will be EXTRA
weight.
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Pietenpol-List: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs.
Douglas Fir Piets
According to the text of an article in the EAA Aircraft Building Techniques:
Wood book, fir is approximately 26% heavier than spruce.
Say a Piet built from spruce was 680 lbs. If you built the whole thing from
fir (without reducing dimensions), it would be 826. Based on those calcs....
Message 26
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Subject: | Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets |
I think that 826 number would only be true if the entire Piet was
spruce...spruce engine, spruce fittings, etc.
The fact that only a portion of the Piet is actually built from spruce means
that only a portion of the wieght would need to be increased by 26%...
Still a big number no doubt...
JM
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Pietenpol-List: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs.
Douglas Fir Piets
According to the text of an article in the EAA Aircraft Building Techniques:
Wood book, fir is approximately 26% heavier than spruce.
Say a Piet built from spruce was 680 lbs. If you built the whole thing from
fir (without reducing dimensions), it would be 826. Based on those calcs....
Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net> wrote:
montanacos wrote:
> My question is on the finished weights of two similar Piet's, one of
> spruce, and one of douglas fir.
Some years ago, a friend built a Piet out of Douglas fir. I can't
remember how much it weighed, though I believe it was a bit heavier than
some. He did say that it wound up tail heavy and that if he were to
build another he would use fir only for the most heavily stressed pieces
and pine for pretty much anything else. He specifically said he'd use
fir only for the spars in the tail and pine for the rest of the empennage.
One online source (http://www.geocities.com/steamgen/woodweights.pdf)
says that Sitka spruce is about 28 lb per cubic foot, while Doug fir
ranges from 30 lb to 34 lb per cubic foot, depending on where it grew.
It's been ages since I last saw the FPL data, but this sounds right.
This is not precisely on point, but a builder named Graham Hansen wrote
in the archives (see the quote on 2003-01-05; I couldn't find the
original message) that he had built both a wood Piet and one with a
steel-tube frame, and the steel turned out to be 35 - 40 lb lighter.
It's probably cheaper, too, if you use modern ERW tube instead of 4130
or whatever Mr. Pietenpol found locally. (This should be an acceptable
substitution. According to the Flying and Glider Manual, a competent
engineer found the tube
Message 27
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Subject: | straight axle and wheels for sale |
I might be interested. What is the size called on the plans? I assume
brakes would be hard to add and that's why you are building a new set?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: March 3, 2008 4:45 PM
To: pietenpolgroup
Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle and wheels for sale
Hi guys,
I mentioned this before and had some interest, but at the time I wanted
more for them (what I have in them) than what anyone wanted to pay.
I have to build a new set of wheels with brakes, so if anyone wants a
complete, ready to go, brakeless straight axle with two beautiful wire
wheels, email me and I'll send photos.
They are very unique and classic. They are 28" smooth high pressure
clincher tire, which is a WW1 era tire, which is what the first Piets used.
Tubes and tires are easily available. The wheels use a steel rim, stainless
steel spokes laced up by Buchannans. Hub is of classic design using bronze
bushings and a grease fitting for lube. The axle is the standard 4130 tube,
6' long, 1.5" od
Can send pics.
Douwe
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas |
Fir
There is probably about 150 pounds of spruce in airframe. This would make the
weight gain more like 40 pounds.
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167485#167485
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Subject: | Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. |
Douglas Fir Piets
Not a stick of spruce in my A-65 powered piet. It is all doug fir. Finish
ed, flying weight is 626lbs. I had to add 20lbs of lead on the engine moun
t and move the wing back 3 inches. Suggestions to used a lighter wood on
the tail is a good one, save the spar is still fir or spruce.
Flew fine for 10 years.
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:20 PM
Subject: RE: [!! SPAM] Pietenpol-List: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs.
Douglas Fir Piets
Not so fast there, young fella...
The 680 pounds includes a whole lot more than spruce (or fir). That weight
includes all the plywood, glue, metal fittings, fabric, paint, cables, fitt
ings, wheels, and among other things, an ENGINE.
Using Fir won't add that much to the weight to the finished plane. But this
is a small plane, and whatever the weight difference is will be EXTRA weig
ht.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Pietenpol-List: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs.
Douglas Fir Piets
According to the text of an article in the EAA Aircraft Building Techniques
: Wood book, fir is approximately 26% heavier than spruce.
Say a Piet built from spruce was 680 lbs. If you built the whole thing from
fir (without reducing dimensions), it would be 826. Based on those calcs..
..
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Thanks Jack for saving me the effort of typing up that reply. I whole-heartedly
agree with what you are saying. My aircraft grade spruce has cost me about
$1,100 over 6 years. I have more then that in wheels (I have 3 sets, 2 that were
totally inadequate(I was trying to save money using an alternative) and the
real ones on the plane). Its 1/4th the cost of my engine and probably cheaper
then the cost of covering materials. Did I forget to say how much the struts
are going to cost? Some of you need to take a look at the cost of turn buckles
and shackles. You are going to need about 30 turnbuckles and 10 to 15 shackles.
Kind of makes the cost of spruce look better. There is a lot more cost
involved then just price of spruce.
Chris, cutting up Jack's soap box for the wood.
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167493#167493
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Subject: | Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. |
Douglas Fir Piets
Yeah, until you let your brother fly it. You want I should walk over and punch
him for you... or at least taunt him a second time?
---- Steve Eldredge <steve@byu.edu> wrote:
============
Not a stick of spruce in my A-65 powered piet. It is all doug fir. Finished,
flying weight is 626lbs. I had to add 20lbs of lead on the engine mount and move
the wing back 3 inches. Suggestions to used a lighter wood on the tail is
a good one, save the spar is still fir or spruce.
Flew fine for 10 years.
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:20 PM
Subject: RE: [!! SPAM] Pietenpol-List: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas
Fir Piets
Not so fast there, young fella...
The 680 pounds includes a whole lot more than spruce (or fir). That weight includes
all the plywood, glue, metal fittings, fabric, paint, cables, fittings, wheels,
and among other things, an ENGINE.
Using Fir won't add that much to the weight to the finished plane. But this is
a small plane, and whatever the weight difference is will be EXTRA weight.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Pietenpol-List: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas
Fir Piets
According to the text of an article in the EAA Aircraft Building Techniques: Wood
book, fir is approximately 26% heavier than spruce.
Say a Piet built from spruce was 680 lbs. If you built the whole thing from fir
(without reducing dimensions), it would be 826. Based on those calcs....
Message 32
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Subject: | Re: Aileron Question |
Correct, I would completely finish the wing before cutting out the
aileron.
I forget the actual width of the piano hinge, thought it was narrower
than that, maybe 1 1/2"? Can't recall.
But most are using the cheaper hinge, ( as I did) and not the extruded
one. If the plans call for the hinges from an outhouse door, the cheaper
ones will be fine.
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 5:10 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Question
Walt,
Thanks for the reply. It stands to reason I should put the leading
edge ply on also after bracing, correct? On another note, would you
recommend 2" (piano) hinges for the ailerons?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
I think one of the great things about the Piet is the idea that you can use local
components and build a safe, reliable and affordable aircraft - sort of like
St. Bernard did.
I know there are some incredible looking Piets out there, I've seen the pictures
and I drool. But the truth is that cost is a huge factor for me; so is safety
and so is fun. The ability to find local suppliers helps reduce cost; why
pay for shipping across country on anything that I don't have to. If I have to
spend the money I'd rather have it on the plane rather than on someone else's
truck. Any dollars I can save anywhere can go somewhere else including the
gas tank. I don't have a lot of dollars; they are all valuable. In the end I'll
probably just order from ACS or Wicks but honestly it'll be because of my
level of knowledge about picking out good wood rather than some other reason.
I may not build a beautiful Lindy Award Winner like MikeC and others, it may even
be ugly compared to some of the jewels that I've seen pictures of, but my goal
is affordable flight (I know - oxy-moron - or perhaps straight moron [Laughing]
).
Thanks for the input everyone - this is a great forum for a super aircraft. I
love the differing ideas - they all make me think and learn! It's great to have
everything put into perspective and to scratch a brain cell every once in awhile.
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167529#167529
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Subject: | Brodhead questions |
I'm seriously contemplating a trip to Brodhead and Oshkosh this summer.
I am planning to fly commercial from Orlando to Chicago and rent a car
from there. Is there a motel close by Brodhead, or do some people camp
at the airport for the weekend? I could probably just buy a tent when I
get up there and use it both at Brodhead and at Osh if that is
possible. I'm hoping to have my Piet project finished by the 80th
anniversary and would love to meet some of the guys on the list and
maybe even get a ride in one.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Baby Ace N39D
Piet Project NX866BC
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Subject: | Re: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. |
Douglas Fir Piets
I am right there with you Steve. Doug Fir is an excellent choice. My
last purchase was $2.49 bd ft. I'll be buying 16' sections again next
week. It is available at local lumber yards and is finish sanded.
Also an early plug for Sun n Fun (April 8-13) for all the new guys on
the list. The Wood workshop at SNF is kind of a Pietenpol central down
there. Several of us volunteer in the shop and are there everyday.
This year I will be bringing a set of wing ribs and spars and we will
construct a pair of wings at the show. I am going to try to also bring
the fuselage (not a Piet) that we built last year.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: [!! SPAM] Pietenpol-List: Finished wieghts of Spruce
Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets
Not a stick of spruce in my A-65 powered piet. It is all doug fir.
Finished, flying weight is 626lbs. I had to add 20lbs of lead on the
engine mount and move the wing back 3 inches. Suggestions to used a
lighter wood on the tail is a good one, save the spar is still fir or
spruce.
Flew fine for 10 years.
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:20 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: [!! SPAM] Pietenpol-List: Finished wieghts of Spruce
Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets
Not so fast there, young fella...
The 680 pounds includes a whole lot more than spruce (or fir). That
weight includes all the plywood, glue, metal fittings, fabric, paint,
cables, fittings, wheels, and among other things, an ENGINE.
Using Fir won't add that much to the weight to the finished plane. But
this is a small plane, and whatever the weight difference is will be
EXTRA weight.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Mueller
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:36 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Pietenpol-List: Finished wieghts of Spruce
Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets
According to the text of an article in the EAA Aircraft Building
Techniques: Wood book, fir is approximately 26% heavier than spruce.
Say a Piet built from spruce was 680 lbs. If you built the whole thing
from fir (without reducing dimensions), it would be 826. Based on those
calcs....
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 36
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Some one wrote, go down to Lowe's and get your wood, thats exactly what I intend
to do, for wood working practice I'm building a motorcycle trailer out
of Douglas fir that I purchased from the high grade lumber section,
you can take you time and select the best boards, some of the grain
thats next to the edge runs the entire 18 feet along the edge with no
run out. Eight growth rings per inch, no pitch pockets and it is very
strong, I love this forum I've found a home. Feel free to speak your
mind to me at any time it could save my life.
Thanks,
--------
Russell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167539#167539
Message 37
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Subject: | Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir Piets |
The Flying and Glider is great to look over the plans and see how things go
together, but there are alot of differences between the F & G and the 1934
plans. There are minor differences in the dems of the wing profile and
major differences in the fuse and tail feathers. Take it from someone who
found out the hard way, better to not the mix plans.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: montanacos <tj_moody@yahoo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/3/2008 1:28:41 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. Douglas Fir
Piets
>
> I have the Flying and Glider Manual that covers the Piet, and have
thought of drawing the rib on autocad and building the ribs until I
purchase the complete set of drawings including the long fuse for the
corvair engine. I don't think there would be any copy right issues with
that approach since the information I have comes from the Flying and
gliders manual.
>
> Thanks in advance and I hope to start soon.
Message 38
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Subject: | Re: Brodhead questions |
For what its worth I expect Ill be stuck in Rockford Ill that weekend with nothing
to do ironically Saturday the 18th is my birthday so being out of town and
stuck I may take a drive to kill some time same like last year and like last
year loose my way and end up in broadhead. Seems awfual to have that happen again
2 years in a row. I suspect Ill find my way back to Midway some time on Sunday
should anyone else get stuck,lost or in need of a ride. They should let
me know so while I may not where I am I may end up in Broadhead its hard getting
old and lost all at the same time while on business
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead questions
I'm seriously contemplating a trip to Brodhead and Oshkosh this summer.
I am planning to fly commercial from Orlando to Chicago and rent a car
from there. Is there a motel close by Brodhead, or do some people camp
at the airport for the weekend? I could probably just buy a tent when I
get up there and use it both at Brodhead and at Osh if that is
possible. I'm hoping to have my Piet project finished by the 80th
anniversary and would love to meet some of the guys on the list and
maybe even get a ride in one.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Baby Ace N39D
Piet Project NX866BC
Message 39
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
allthumbs wrote:
> Some one wrote, go down to Lowe's and get your wood, thats exactly what I intend
to do (etc.)
That was my plan. Unfortunately, the wood they carry at Lowe's in this
area all seems to net out at 10/16, not even an honest 3/4. This leaves
me looking for alternative sources. Not that fir will be hard to find.
Or generic white wood for the most lightly stressed parts.
For that matter, a little more than half-way down the east coast of
Florida, spar-quality spruce is not hard to come by, if I feel like
paying for it.
Bob in Santa Fe: Grading wood for aircraft use is not that hard. Find a
copy of AC43-13a, and it will tell you everything you need to know.
(Unfortunately, the link I had doesn't work any more.)
Owen
Message 40
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Bob,
Being VERY picky, I have found usable poplar at Lowe's.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
WW Conversion 90% done,
Working on Tail Group
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bhassel
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives
I've worked some with metal and some with composites/fiberglass/MSG but this
wood stuff is new to me.
I'd like to find a workable solution because of the expense of the spruce
and getting it all the way down here in the southwest. Of course living in
the desert southwest means aircraft wood is not a naturally occurring
entity.
I'm not sure I can keep all of my brain cells aligned in this discussion but
please don't let it stop. If I could go down to my local Lowe's and find
reasonably priced/acceptable wood (still learning that one as well) I'd love
it!
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167432#167432
Message 41
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Subject: | Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs. |
Douglas Fir
Don't forget, AC43.13 allows the use of Douglas Fir in a "lesser dimension"
as it is stronger than Spruce. That would theoretically mean that the weight
may be closer, but the lesser dimension is not provided...
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
WW Conversion 90% done,
Working on Tail Group
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: [!! SPAM] Finished wieghts of Spruce Piets vs.
Douglas Fir
There is probably about 150 pounds of spruce in airframe. This would make
the weight gain more like 40 pounds.
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167485#167485
Message 42
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
AC 43.13-1B is the latest version of that circular. If you go to:
http://rgl.faa.gov/
....you can find PDF's of that and any other AC's and assorted docs.
Ryan
allthumbs wrote:
> Some one wrote, go down to Lowe's and get your wood, thats exactly what I intend
to do (etc.)
That was my plan. Unfortunately, the wood they carry at Lowe's in this
area all seems to net out at 10/16, not even an honest 3/4. This leaves
me looking for alternative sources. Not that fir will be hard to find.
Or generic white wood for the most lightly stressed parts.
For that matter, a little more than half-way down the east coast of
Florida, spar-quality spruce is not hard to come by, if I feel like
paying for it.
Bob in Santa Fe: Grading wood for aircraft use is not that hard. Find a
copy of AC43-13a, and it will tell you everything you need to know.
(Unfortunately, the link I had doesn't work any more.)
Owen
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 43
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Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Thnaks
--------
Russell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167584#167584
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