---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/28/08: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:55 AM - Re: spreader bar gear question () 2. 03:58 AM - Re: spreader bar gear question () 3. 04:57 AM - Re: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind (Phillips, Jack) 4. 05:04 AM - Re: spreader bar gear question (Bill Church) 5. 05:13 AM - Re: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind (Bill Church) 6. 05:43 AM - Homemade Turnbuckles (Bill Church) 7. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 8. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind () 9. 06:25 AM - Re: spreader bar gear question (Gene Rambo) 10. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind (Owen Davies) 11. 07:27 AM - Re: spreader bar gear question (gcardinal@comcast.net) 12. 09:50 AM - solid wire vs cables (Oscar Zuniga) 13. 11:37 AM - Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge (Graham & Robin Hewitt) 14. 12:08 PM - Re: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge (Jack T. Textor) 15. 12:43 PM - Re: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge (Owen Davies) 16. 12:51 PM - Re: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge (Phillips, Jack) 17. 02:54 PM - N Number (TOM STINEMETZE) 18. 07:43 PM - Re: spreader bar gear question (tmbrant1@netzero.com) 19. 09:02 PM - Acceptable Engine Confusion (bhassel) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:58 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question From: Very pretty!Not the guy in the back,the gal in the front.Just thought I'd better clairify that. Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: March 27, 2008 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question And daughter #2...... Last year I flew her 130 miles to her friend's summer home in Spirit Lake, Iowa. Her friends were waiting at the airport when we landed. All of her friends treated her like a rock star and my status was instantly raised to "Coolest Dad on the Planet" Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: pietflyr To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:09 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Lord, Greg! How did an ugly dude like you get such a fox for a daughter? Will she be at Brodhead this year? JackPhillips ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question From: Another pretty girl! Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: March 27, 2008 8:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Photo credit belongs to my daughter. She took the picture on her first ride last summer. Life is good! Greg From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Greg, Great detailed photo......appears to be about 1200 ft AGL.? Question.....why are you taking a photo of your wheel assembly while flying???? ;) Village idiot Ken H ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:53 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind From: "Phillips, Jack" Beautiful workmanship, Clif Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind You need two, one for each wheel. My center section is temporarily fitted. After having a fuselage with nothing above it for so long, it feels quite different with this big thing sitting above it. Engine noises now have a whole new feeling. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:47 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind > > Tie the kayak to the side of the Piet and away ya go! > > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen > Davies > Sent: March 27, 2008 9:28 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind > > > harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: >> >> It is the pilots curse that when in the air we want to get down and > when >> down we want back up.There is a continual worry the whole time that > one >> is up there of all the things that can or could go wrong.It keeps you > on >> your toes but makes for many grey hairs. > That's what did it? Jeez, if I'd know that I might have taken up > kayaking instead. > > Owen > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 7:15 PM > > _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:39 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Greg, When I first read your post, I somehow didn't see the last letter of the last word, which resulted in your status being raised to "Coolest Dad on the Plane", which isn't really THAT special when you're flying with a daughter (of any age) in a Pietenpol. Congratulations on your new status. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question And daughter #2...... Last year I flew her 130 miles to her friend's summer home in Spirit Lake, Iowa. Her friends were waiting at the airport when we landed. All of her friends treated her like a rock star and my status was instantly raised to "Coolest Dad on the Planet" Greg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:20 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind Clif, As with all of the other photos of your construction, your work looks top rate. I really like your wooden cabanes - nice shape. And, from the shape of the cardboard on top, it looks as though you're thinking about a "Moth style" fuel tank. I've been thinking the same thing, but you're way ahead of me. Very Nice. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles From: "Bill Church" A few days ago Santiago posted a couple of links to the Flitzer website. There are a lot of good construction ideas there. I've been looking through different builder's sites, and noticed that the Flitzer incorporates homemade turnbuckles for the drag and anti-drag wires. At first I thought "that's simple - what a great idea". But after looking at the (very low resolution) photos, I'm having a hard time to figure out how they would work. Specifically, how would you adjust the tension when the turnbuckle is installed? They appear to have a short section of threaded rod joining the two halves, but to lengthen or shorten the overall length, one would need to disconnect the turnbuckle from one end, and rotate one end of the assembly. Unless that isn't a threaded rod, but rather, a machine screw, but then - how do you get a tool in there to turn the screw? I think that this is likely the case, and perhaps there is enough room to get a small allen key in there. I don't see any safety wires in the photos Anyone out there know any more about these fittings? Bill C. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:05 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind So when or at what stage is it legal for me to begin making the all important and sought after "engine noises"? I would not want to be accused of being a premature engine noiser or in violation of a standard engine noise rule. I need some guidance here from our learned builder and noiser ranks. I look forward to your advice and commentary. John In a message dated 3/28/2008 1:18:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca writes: You need two, one for each wheel. My center section is temporarily fitted. After having a fuselage with nothing above it for so long, it feels quite different with this big thing sitting above it. Engine noises now have a whole new feeling. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:47 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind > > Tie the kayak to the side of the Piet and away ya go! > > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen > Davies > Sent: March 27, 2008 9:28 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Owen Davies > > harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: >> >> It is the pilots curse that when in the air we want to get down and > when >> down we want back up.There is a continual worry the whole time that > one >> is up there of all the things that can or could go wrong.It keeps you > on >> your toes but makes for many grey hairs. > That's what did it? Jeez, if I'd know that I might have taken up > kayaking instead. > > Owen > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 7:15 PM > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind From: You can make engine noises anytime you want provided your engine is mounted safely on a structure,motor mount on plane or motor mount not on the plane.Best time is 3 a.m. on a Sunday morning; that way you get the maximum feel for what engine noise can do. Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: March 28, 2008 8:52 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind So when or at what stage is it legal for me to begin making the all important and sought after "engine noises"? I would not want to be accused of being a premature engine noiser or in violation of a standard engine noise rule. I need some guidance here from our learned builder and noiser ranks. I look forward to your advice and commentary. John In a message dated 3/28/2008 1:18:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca writes: You need two, one for each wheel. My center section is temporarily fitted. After having a fuselage with nothing above it for so long, it feels quite different with this big thing sitting above it. Engine noises now have a whole new feeling. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:47 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind > > Tie the kayak to the side of the Piet and away ya go! > > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen > Davies > Sent: March 27, 2008 9:28 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind > > > harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: >> >> It is the pilots curse that when in the air we want to get down and > when >> down we want back up.There is a continual worry the whole time that > one >> is up there of all the things that can or could go wrong.It keeps you > on >> your toes but makes for many grey hairs. > That's what did it? Jeez, if I'd know that I might have taken up > kayaking instead. > > Owen > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 7:15 PM > > ________________________________ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:47 AM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Thanks, Greg! As usual on here, I got two real answers to my question and thirty knuckleheads commenting on every other thing in the world (including your daughters!) and, of course, wanting to know if there is a cheaper way to do it!! LOL It looks like you have a washer between the shock cords and the wheel retainer. Did you find that this was necessary to keep the cords off of the wheel? I would think that they would not want to spread that way, it does not look like the inner wraps of cord are migrating the other way? Thanks for responding, I will probably stop at two inches (6 looks like wayyy too much, of course, I don't have brakes though) Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Hi Gene, Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord. See attached. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess. Gene ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:03 AM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind Clif Dawson wrote: > My center section is temporarily fitted. After having > a fuselage with nothing above it for so long, it feels > quite different with this big thing sitting above it. > Engine noises now have a whole new feeling. Congratulations! But can you tell us about your spars? Alternatives to the flat plank were a topic of some interest here not long ago, as you may recall. More information about them would be very welcome. Owen ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:27 AM PST US From: gcardinal@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Hi Gene, The washer is in place to protect the cord from chafing on the wheel retaining collar bolts. We also added leather cuffs around the ash blocks to prevent the cords from chafing on the numerous nuts, cotter pins and bolt heads in that area. This was done after going through 3 sets of shock cords in two years. Greg -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Gene Rambo" Thanks, Greg! As usual on here, I got two real answers to my question and thirty knuckleheads commenting on every other thing in the world (including your daughters!) and, of course, wanting to know if there is a cheaper way to do it!! LOL It looks like you have a washer between the shock cords and the wheel retainer. Did you find that this was necessary to keep the cords off of the wheel? I would think that they would not want to spread that way, it does not look like the inner wraps of cord are migrating the other way? Thanks for responding, I will probably stop at two inches (6 looks like wayyy too much, of course, I don't have brakes though) Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Hi Gene, Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord. See attached. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess. Gene
Hi Gene,
 
The washer is in place to protect the cord from chafing on the wheel retaining collar bolts. We also added leather cuffs around the ash blocks to prevent the cords from chafing on the numerous nuts, cotter pins and bolt heads in that area. This was done after going through 3 sets of shock cords in two years.
 
Greg
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo@msn.com>
Thanks, Greg!  As usual on here, I got two real answers to my question and thirty knuckleheads commenting on every other thing in the world (including your daughters!) and, of course, wanting to know if there is a cheaper way to do it!!  LOL
 
It looks like you have a washer between the shock cords and the wheel retainer.  Did you find that this was necessary to keep the cords off of the wheel?  I would think that they would not want to spread that way, it does not look like the inner wraps of cord are migrating the other way?
 
Thanks for responding, I will probably stop at two inches (6 looks like wayyy too much, of course, I don't have brakes though)
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question

Hi Gene,
 
Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord.
See attached.
 
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo

OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer?  I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? 
 
I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length.  I just want to make sure I leave enough excess.
 
Gene
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:56 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: solid wire vs cables Corky asked- > It was stated that the wing drag and antis were double piano wire. No gauge > was given. Do you have any info on that? I looked at the 1932 Flying & Glider Manual plans as well as my set of the "Improved" plans and the drag/anti-drag wire braces in the wings are called out as different things there. The F&GM has them as 3/32" stranded cables (0.094") while the Improved drawings call out 13 ga. hard wire. No idea which wire gauge was used for the hard wire callouts; you can search the archives to see that there have been various different ones theorized but the most likely are the AWG (Brown & Sharpe) or the Washburn steel wire gauges. #13 in AWG is .0720" and in Washburn it's .0915" so they are both close to the 3/32" cable diameter but no telling what the strength difference might be. I find no reference anywhere to double piano wire and there are many different music wire gauges... check here: http://www.sizes.com/materls/wire_music.htm Curiously, the callout for the tail brace wires is also different between the F&GM and the Improved plans. The F&GM (older) calls for #12 hard wire bracing and the Improved (newer) calls for 14 ga. hard wire. So depending on which wire gauge was used, that's a variation of from .0641" (#14 AWG) to .1055" (#12 Washburn wire gauge). Probably due to the availability of wire at the time, as well as Mr. Pietenpol's experimentation with different materials as he refined the "kits" and the design, as well as the plans. As with many things on this airplane, the only thing that is standard is that it's non-standard ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:22 AM PST US From: "Graham & Robin Hewitt" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge Has any one found using Anchor nuts for inside the wing leading edge a good idea? More weight, expense, but bolts could be replaced with out wrecking the ply Keep building Graham Checked by AVG. 27/03/2008 7:15 PM ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:22 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge From: "Jack T. Textor" Graham, My leading edge is drilled, bolted and fitted. This weekend I plan on gluing with T-88 and utilizing 8-32 bolts. I feel the glue is very important and the bolts are there to help line up and pull it tight while gluing. Taking the 172 out this afternoon. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham & Robin Hewitt Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge Has any one found using Anchor nuts for inside the wing leading edge a good idea? More weight, expense, but bolts could be replaced with out wrecking the ply Keep building Graham Checked by AVG. 27/03/2008 7:15 PM ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:17 PM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge Jack T. Textor wrote: > My leading edge is drilled, bolted and fitted. This weekend I plan on > gluing with T-88 and utilizing 8-32 bolts. I feel the glue is very > important and the bolts are there to help line up and pull it tight > while gluing. That brings up an interesting question. I haven't noticed that anyone else uses bolts on their leading edge. (I wish I could find my Flying and Glider Manuals!) No one seems to have problems with alignment, and big rubber bands will do for clamping, especially now that we have epoxy glues. So why did Mr. Pietenpol use bolts? None of the possible explanations I come up with are very satisfying. Does anyone have other thoughts? Owen ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:23 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge From: "Phillips, Jack" I used bolts and locknuts on my leading edges, then filled the counterbores where the bolt heads are in the leading edge with Superfil. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 3:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge Jack T. Textor wrote: > My leading edge is drilled, bolted and fitted. This weekend I plan on > gluing with T-88 and utilizing 8-32 bolts. I feel the glue is very > important and the bolts are there to help line up and pull it tight > while gluing. That brings up an interesting question. I haven't noticed that anyone else uses bolts on their leading edge. (I wish I could find my Flying and Glider Manuals!) No one seems to have problems with alignment, and big rubber bands will do for clamping, especially now that we have epoxy glues. So why did Mr. Pietenpol use bolts? None of the possible explanations I come up with are very satisfying. Does anyone have other thoughts? Owen _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:17 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: N Number Well, I finally took the plunge and reserved an N number for my Piet. It took me a long time to decide what number would be appropriate but I think my final choice seems obvious now. As you may recall, SpaceShipOne carries the number N328KF which stands for 328,000 feet, the target altitude for the X-Prize flights. Therefore, my Piet will be numbered N328X and will probably be named SpaceShip 0.1. Unfortunately the FAA doesn't allow you to start your N number with a zero or it would have been N005KF. Spoil Sports. Tom S. ____ | ____ \8/ / \ BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:STINEMETZE, TOM TEL;WORK:620-245-2548 ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS@MCPCITY.COM N:STINEMETZE;TOM TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN. END:VCARD ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:58 PM PST US From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question that's better than just "coolest dad on the plane..." _____________________________________________________________ Click to find local singles for dating, romance and fun http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijm1uVNHMXis4gPBYQ5GU8VYigLmStSLx4ReIydaFr0GFKuX8/ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Acceptable Engine Confusion From: "bhassel" I've received my Piet plans and manual and have read through them. It seems that the Corvair is an acceptable alternative. The GN-1 plans however say that a Corvair engine doesn't have enough thrust. I know that the Corvair was an alternative to the Ford Model A and others but does it develop enough thrust? Do the Continentals and Lyco's develop more thrust? I'm on the heavy side and will be flying out of airports that are high altitude 6,500 ft and up. What's the 'collective' wisdom? 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