Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:26 AM - Re: F-22 (Phillips, Jack)
2. 04:38 AM - Re: Take off roll (Phillips, Jack)
3. 05:05 AM - Dodging church steeples in Indiana (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
4. 05:22 AM - Which Locktite to use? (HelsperSew@aol.com)
5. 05:27 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana ()
6. 05:29 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
7. 05:37 AM - Re: Which Locktite to use? (Phillips, Jack)
8. 05:46 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Bill Church)
9. 05:51 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (Phillips, Jack)
10. 06:01 AM - Re: Which Locktite to use? (Jim Ash)
11. 06:09 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (Ron Bell)
12. 06:14 AM - Re: Which Locktite to use? (HelsperSew@aol.com)
13. 06:26 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Phillips, Jack)
14. 06:28 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
15. 06:54 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (Owen Davies)
16. 07:21 AM - Re: Which Locktite to use? (Phillips, Jack)
17. 07:22 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (Phillips, Jack)
18. 07:44 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (outofthebox50@yahoo.com)
19. 07:57 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (Rick Holland)
20. 08:05 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
21. 08:06 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (Robert Butsch)
22. 08:15 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
23. 08:25 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (Owen Davies)
24. 08:28 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (Owen Davies)
25. 08:32 AM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (bike.mike)
26. 08:50 AM - Steaming Chamber (Gary Boothe)
27. 09:11 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Thomas Bernie)
28. 09:18 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Thomas Bernie)
29. 12:18 PM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Kirk Huizenga)
30. 01:11 PM - Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana (Gordon Bowen)
31. 01:11 PM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Bill Church)
32. 03:03 PM - Piet Pictures (TBYH@aol.com)
33. 08:59 PM - Re: "moth" wing tank (Dick Navratil)
34. 11:03 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
35. 11:05 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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What beautiful Fairchild! I've got a few hours in a Fairchild 22 with
a Warner radial engine on it. Flies like a big heavy Pietenpol. Worst
brake system of any plane I've ever flown.
Thanks for the pictures
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of T White
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: F-22
A Pietenpol's big brother. This F-22 was just restored at our airpark in
Florida and is awaiting FAA approval. 20+ years in restoration. You can
eat off this airplane.
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Message 2
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I have an A65 Continental with a Sensenich 72 x 42 prop. Solo on a 72 F
day I get about 350 - 400 fpm. I have a VSI in the panel so I generally
know pretty much how poorly it climbs.
An interesting characteristic of slow climbing planes like a Pietenpol
or a J-3 Cub is that on takeoff, you get a decent climb right after
takeoff up to the point where you climb out of ground effect (about one
wingspan off the ground). At that point it always seems to "sag" and
even lose a little altitude before resuming the climb at a slower rate.
This can be very disheartening when you look down the field and see that
the trees are higher than you are, and you feel it sinking a bit. This
is exxagerated at my home field because the runway slopes downhill so
the ground is dropping away, and taking ground effect with it.
I remember flying it to Brodhead in '05. Climbing out from Valparaiso,
Indiana, behind Mike Cuy, it was hot and I was heavily loaded with fuel
and camping gear. We took off to the north, heading right over the town
and a half mile from the airport I was still so low I had to dodge a
church steeple.
Jack Phillips
Ready to fly it to Brodhead again
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
outofthebox50@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll
Jack, what motor are you using, and do you have any idea of your rate of
climb flying solo?
Now let me see if I have the formula right? My runway is 600 ft. 400
ft to get off and another 200 ft to clear the 5 ft fence at the end. At
the 600 ft mark, I should be at 6.8 ft agl, but does that 150 fpm acount
for the downward thrust from the human pucker factor, or since the
opening of the cockpit is on top, does the vacume in the seat actually
draw air in from above and create added lift?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
To:<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll
<Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
I can usually get off the ground in about 400 feet. 150 feet might be
possible with a 30 knot wind down the runway.
Getting off the ground is not a problem with a Pietenpol. The problem
comes when trying to climb over 120 foot trees at the end of the runway
(nobody ever told the trees in North Carolina that they are only
supposed to be 50 feet tall).
On a hot day, my rate of climb with a passenger is about 150 fpm.
Assuming that it is moving forward at 50 mph (73 feet per second), and
assuming I get off the ground after a 400 foot roll, that means I've got
a little under 1 minute to climb high enough to get over the trees at
the end of the runway. To be generous, let's say the trees are only 100
feet tall, so now I've got 40 seconds of flying time to get over the
trees. In that 40 seconds I will travel 40 x 73 or 2,920 feet. Problem
is, the runway is only 2500 feet long and I've already used 400 feet of
it before getting off the ground.
Solving the problem another way, if I take 400 feet to get off the
ground and then travel at 73 feet per second while climbing at 150 fpm
for the remaining 2100 feet of runway, I will be 71.92 feet high at the
end of the runway, or will impact the trees 28 feet below the treetop.
Hence my decision to not carry passengers out of my home field in the
Pietenpol.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
outofthebox50@YAHOO.COM
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll
The spec for take off roll says 150ft. I got the impression last week
from some of the guys that it was much longer than that. I watched some
videos on youtube and it seemed much longer than 150 ft. Have any of
you guys with a flying Piet ever tried to figure out your take off roll
flying solo? I was wondering what a more realistic number might be.
Thanks, Jeremy
DFW, TX
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
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Message 3
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Subject: | Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
Jack's story about our poor rates of climb on a very hot July day in
2005 out of Porter County Airport in Valparaiso, Indiana
are not exaggerated. In this photo we took off fully fueled and loaded
northbound and thank God we had an expanse of open
airport property over which to attempt to climb and turn westbound
toward Chicago. The little red dot with Valparaiso not only
had many fine old church steeples but an array of newly planted cell
phone and other towers that we were gingerly banking
to avoid. By Chicago we had a good 500 feet agl underneath us:) (it
felt like that at times)
Mike C.
Message 4
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Subject: | Which Locktite to use? |
Gentlemen,
My prop hub will hang on to the Ford A engine by only 4 bolts and there is
not enough room on the back side for any nut at all. Which Locktite product
would you use to make sure those bolts never got loose? I need recommendations
from some experts.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 5
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Subject: | Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
That looks an awful lot like a google earth picture????
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: April 1, 2008 8:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Jack's story about our poor rates of climb on a very hot July day in
2005 out of Porter County Airport in Valparaiso, Indiana
are not exaggerated. In this photo we took off fully fueled and loaded
northbound and thank God we had an expanse of open
airport property over which to attempt to climb and turn westbound
toward Chicago. The little red dot with Valparaiso not only
had many fine old church steeples but an array of newly planted cell
phone and other towers that we were gingerly banking
to avoid. By Chicago we had a good 500 feet agl underneath us:) (it
felt like that at times)
Mike C.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
Given that the Piet is a "low and slow" airplane, what can be done to get
the rate of climb in the 500-600 range at gross?
Boyce
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 7
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Subject: | Which Locktite to use? |
Dan are you threading the bolts into the hub? I guess I don't
understand your question. If you are threading the prop bolts from the
face of the prop plate through the prop and into threaded holes on your
engine flange, you could drill the heads of the bolts and safety wire
all the prop bolts. That would give you a nice visual check for
security before each flight. With loctite, you would never know if one
came loose without using a torquewrench.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Which Locktite to use?
Gentlemen,
My prop hub will hang on to the Ford A engine by only 4 bolts and there
is not enough room on the back side for any nut at all. Which Locktite
product would you use to make sure those bolts never got loose? I need
recommendations from some experts.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aol
hom00030000000001> .
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 8
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Subject: | Homemade Turnbuckles |
BScott,
Hans wasn't saying to use this nut as a method to safety the turnbuckle, but
rather, as an easier method to adjust the tension, since the adjusting can
be done in the middle, as opposed to sticking an allen key inside the
fitting. I've attached an image to help illustrate.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BScott116@aol.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire?
In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
eng@canadianrogers.com writes:
Message 9
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Subject: | Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
Try a JATO unit?
Seriously, The main thing would be reduce drag and add power without
adding weight. Never under-estimate the drag of a Pietenpol - it is a
flying sea-anchor. The Pietenpol airfoil seems to have the remarkable
combination of low-lift / high drag. The Riblett airfoil has been flown
on a Pietenpol (Lowell Frank's) and is reported to have much improved
performance. More power is always a good thing, but it takes a lot of
power to make much impact on all that drag.
There are a number of Pietenpols flying with 100 or even 115 hp engines.
I have not flown one of them - every Piet I've flown has had a 65
Continental on the nose, and they've all flown about like mine. Perhaps
some of the pilots with 100 hp + on their Piets can comment on the climb
rates they get.
Remember, when you say "500-600 fpm at gross" you are asking for a 400%
improvement. That's like me asking how to change my RV-4 from its 2000
fpm climb rate to an 8,000 fpm climb. It is too much to ask.
Jack Phillips
"The Pietenpol is Slow, but the Sky is Patient"
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Given that the Piet is a "low and slow" airplane, what can be done
to get the rate of climb in the 500-600 range at gross?
Boyce
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aol
hom00030000000001> .
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 10
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Subject: | Which Locktite to use? |
What he said...
Unless you're capable of drilling the bolt heads yourself with reasonable accuracy,
I might be inclined to buy them commercially from somebody like Skybolt or
Aircraft Spruce. They're not expensive.
In my ignorance, I thought these bolts were required to have some kind of positive
fastening system. Does Locktite count? These four bolts are probably subject
to more harsh vibration than any other fastener on the plane.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
>Sent: Apr 1, 2008 8:35 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Which Locktite to use?
>
>Dan are you threading the bolts into the hub? I guess I don't
>understand your question. If you are threading the prop bolts from the
>face of the prop plate through the prop and into threaded holes on your
>engine flange, you could drill the heads of the bolts and safety wire
>all the prop bolts. That would give you a nice visual check for
>security before each flight. With loctite, you would never know if one
>came loose without using a torquewrench.
>
>
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>NX899JP
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>HelsperSew@aol.com
>Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:19 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Which Locktite to use?
>
>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>
>
>My prop hub will hang on to the Ford A engine by only 4 bolts and there
>is not enough room on the back side for any nut at all. Which Locktite
>product would you use to make sure those bolts never got loose? I need
>recommendations from some experts.
>
>
>
>Dan Helsper
>Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> _____
>
>Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
><http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aol
>hom00030000000001> .
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________
>
>or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
>
>Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
Message 11
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Subject: | Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
Increase the power to weight ratio. That means you must increase power
or
decrease weight. Power gives you climb performance. Drag reduction
gives
you speed.
Ron Bell
Mechanicsville, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Given that the Piet is a "low and slow" airplane, what can be done
to
get the rate of climb in the 500-600 range at gross?
Boyce
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=
aolhom0
0030000000001> .
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Which Locktite to use? |
Jack,
The engine flange (which is actually the transmission attach flange on the
Ford A) has only 4 threaded holes 7/16" dia. available to attach my
continental-style prop hub that I got from Ken Perkins. This engine flange has
no
clearance to speak of between it and the crankcase. The six prop hold-on bolts
do
not line-up at all with these four available engine flange holes.
(http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=hub_an1-012s.jpg&PhotoID=815
)
In this photo you can see the four bolts that attach this hub to the engine
flange (black socket head) that will be recessed into this prop flange when
tight. There is no room to get any safety wire on the heads of these four
socket head bolts either. Ken Perkins says to use Locktite but I need to know
which kind I can depend on.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 13
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Subject: | Homemade Turnbuckles |
Just a comment here - if you are talking about brazing or welding the
tensioning nut, keep in mind that welding or brazing will destroy the
heat treatment of the bolt and greatly reduce its strength. I don't
think I would want to do that. A better solution would be to use a
reduced diameter nut (like an MS21042) as a jam nut against this one.
That would still leave the nut available for tensioning (the MS21042 is
small enough that it won't interfere with putting a wrench on the hex
nut).
Just as an aside, I really like the MS21042 nuts. They weigh less than
half what a standard AN365 locknut weighs, they are high strength nuts
and they are reduced in height as well as diameter, so you can often use
a bolt one grip length size less, again saving weight. Their only
drawback is cost - about 10 cents more than an AN365. They also are all
metal so can be used as locknuts in high heat applications. They were
standard fasteners used nearly everywhere on the F-16, back in the days
of my youth when I was working as a junior engineer at General Dynamics.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
BScott,
Hans wasn't saying to use this nut as a method to safety the turnbuckle,
but rather, as an easier method to adjust the tension, since the
adjusting can be done in the middle, as opposed to sticking an allen key
inside the fitting. I've attached an image to help illustrate.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BScott116@aol.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire?
In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
eng@canadianrogers.com writes:
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
So then your increase in power has to more than offset the increase in
weight associated with the power change. Hmmmm. Maybe a hopped up A-65? So what
can be done to make the A-65 have more power? Carb jetting, more compression,
timing, tuned exhaust? How much does increasing compression affect hand
propping difficulty? Just sorta thinking out loud guys. BTW, if anyone is near
Camden SC there's a guy advertising two Continental A-65's in the Carolina Trader
for $500.00. One is disassembled, the other is together.
Boyce
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
Among other useful comments, Phillips, Jack wrote:
>
> The Riblett airfoil has been flown on a Pietenpol (Lowell Franks) and
> is reported to have much improved performance.
>
Has this been mentioned here before? If so, I missed it. Which Riblett
airfoil? He's done a lot of them.
Thanks.
Owen
Message 16
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Subject: | Which Locktite to use? |
Ah, now I understand the problem. And you won't even be able to see
these bolts without removing the prop. Again, I don't like trusting
Loctite for such a high-vibration, critical task, but without changing
the design of the hub I don't see any other option.
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Which Locktite to use?
Jack,
The engine flange (which is actually the transmission attach flange on
the Ford A) has only 4 threaded holes 7/16" dia. available to attach my
continental-style prop hub that I got from Ken Perkins. This engine
flange has no clearance to speak of between it and the crankcase. The
six prop hold-on bolts do not line-up at all with these four available
engine flange holes. hub_an1-012s.jpg
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=hub_an1-012
s.jpg&PhotoID=815>
In this photo you can see the four bolts that attach this hub to the
engine flange (black socket head) that will be recessed into this prop
flange when tight. There is no room to get any safety wire on the heads
of these four socket head bolts either. Ken Perkins says to use Locktite
but I need to know which kind I can depend on.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aol
hom00030000000001> .
_________________________________________________
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d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
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immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
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orsk - Portuguese
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Subject: | Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
There's been a lot of discussion on the list in the last year about this
airfoil. I don't have the numbers, but you should be absle to search
the archives and find it.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen
Davies
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Among other useful comments, Phillips, Jack wrote:
>
> The Riblett airfoil has been flown on a Pietenpol (Lowell Frank's) and
> is reported to have much improved performance.
>
Has this been mentioned here before? If so, I missed it. Which Riblett
airfoil? He's done a lot of them.
Thanks.
Owen
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
Hey Boyce, do you happen to have the number on those A65s?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
So then your increase in power has to more than= offset the increase in weight
associated with the power change. Hmmmm. Maybe= a hopped up A-65? So what can
be done to make the A-65 have more power? Carb jetting, more compression,
timing, tuned exhaust? How much does increasing compression affect hand propping
difficulty? Just sorta thinking out loud gu= ys. BTW, if anyone is near Camden
SC there's a guy advertising two Continental A-65's in the Carolina Trader
for $500.00. One is disassembled, the other is= together.
Boyce
----------------
Create a Home T= heater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home <http://home.aol.
com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
I believe its called the 612 airfoil and you can get info on it from Bill
Rewey. A full size plan for it is also available, just search the archives
for 612 or Riblett. If my completed wings weren't hanging in my garage I
would build to the 612 airfoil.
Rick
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Phillips, Jack <
Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com> wrote:
> Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
>
> There's been a lot of discussion on the list in the last year about this
> airfoil. I don't have the numbers, but you should be absle to search
> the archives and find it.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen
> Davies
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:49 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
>
>
> Among other useful comments, Phillips, Jack wrote:
> >
> > The Riblett airfoil has been flown on a Pietenpol (Lowell Frank's) and
>
> > is reported to have much improved performance.
> >
> Has this been mentioned here before? If so, I missed it. Which Riblett
> airfoil? He's done a lot of them.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Owen
>
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
> notify the sender
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
> Norsk - Portuguese
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
Here ya go, don't have a name. Link is to a picture....
803 438 9799
_The Carolina Trader - Pay When You Sell - Advertise Free_
(http://www.carolinatrader.com/default1.htm)
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
Hello fellas:
My name is Bob Butsch and I'm in Indianapolis. Just started working on my
Air Camper after having had the plans for many (too many) years. I have
lofted the Harry Riblett airfoil a couple of you have been talking about. It
is the Riblett GA30U-612. You won't find it on the internet. I tried about
every site I could think of. Perhaps you will have more luck. I bought a
packet of info from Bill Rewey which had the ordinates for the airfoil. I
also purchased Harry's book on his GA airfoils and the GA30U-612 is NOT in
it.
Bill Rewey changed the aft upper ordinates a bit because the trailing edge
was very sharp. I left it alone since I will be using commercial aluminum
trailing edge anyhow.
I have been in contact with Lowell Frank and he says he likes it very much.
You can contact Bill Rewey at 3339 Mound View Road Verona, WI 53593.
He does not have an email address and I don't have a phone number for him.
I'm in the process of making my rib jigs and have designed a simple
steaming chamber I hope to finish and test today. I also just received Mike
Cuy's video recently and highly recommend it to any new builder.
I also recently reserved my N number. It is NX45BB. It was the last two
digit number available with a suffix of BB. I also went through all the "X"
business and finally just called the FAA to get the skinny. The info you
have been reading is quite correct. At the time of receiving your
airworthiness certificate, the FAA rep will O.K. the use of "X" in the
number.
I must say that I have been reading all the posts for quite some time now
and have learned much. Every time I think I have something to contribute,
someone else always seems to come back with what I was going to say before I
get a chance. That's O.K. I won't have to type as much.
Later.
Bob Butsch
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
OK, the link to the picture didn't work...probably because it is password
protected. You have to subscribe to read the ads....
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
Phillips, Jack wrote:
> There's been a lot of discussion on the list in the last year about this
> airfoil. I don't have the numbers, but you should be absle to search
> the archives and find it.
Will do. Thanks. It probably predates my rejoining the list.
Owen
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
Thanks all. Given that my Piet thus far consists of only five ribs, I
may make the change. Now to look up the previous messages on the list
and see just what they have to say about how much the new airfoil
improves performance.
Owen
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
MessageSurplus power gives you climb rate. If all of your power is used
to overcome drag, you get no climb. Reduce the drag, without increasing
power, and you will have more available climb rate. On a 1100# gross
Piet, each horsepower not used to overcome drag will give you 1/2 foot
per second (30 fpm) of climb. (one Hp = 550 ft-lbf/sec, or 33,000
ft-lbf/min)
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Bell
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:05 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Increase the power to weight ratio. That means you must increase
power or decrease weight. Power gives you climb performance. Drag
reduction gives you speed.
Ron Bell
Mechanicsville, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:27 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Given that the Piet is a "low and slow" airplane, what can be
done to get the rate of climb in the 500-600 range at gross?
Boyce
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 26
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Subject: | Steaming Chamber |
Bob,
You are not far behind me. I have 4 ribs built + the tail section.
Speaking of steaming chambers, though, I found that steaming was not
necessary. I built a simple "soaking chamber" out of 3" pvc with a pvc cap
on one end (actually, it was what I kept my fishing pole in). Just put in as
many cap strips as you can fit, or want, and fill with cold water. Let soak
overnight, and the strips are ready for forming. I can soak capstrips much
faster than I can build ribs! Only the lower 2/3's of the strip needs to be
formed, so if the strips stick out at the top, just wrap some wire around
them and tie to the pvc - that will keep them from floating.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
WW Conversion 90% done,
Working on Tail Group (+4 ribs down)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Butsch
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Hello fellas:
My name is Bob Butsch and I'm in Indianapolis. Just started working on my
Air Camper after having had the plans for many (too many) years. I have
lofted the Harry Riblett airfoil a couple of you have been talking about. It
is the Riblett GA30U-612. You won't find it on the internet. I tried about
every site I could think of. Perhaps you will have more luck. I bought a
packet of info from Bill Rewey which had the ordinates for the airfoil. I
also purchased Harry's book on his GA airfoils and the GA30U-612 is NOT in
it.
Bill Rewey changed the aft upper ordinates a bit because the trailing edge
was very sharp. I left it alone since I will be using commercial aluminum
trailing edge anyhow.
I have been in contact with Lowell Frank and he says he likes it very much.
You can contact Bill Rewey at 3339 Mound View Road Verona, WI 53593.
He does not have an email address and I don't have a phone number for him.
I'm in the process of making my rib jigs and have designed a simple
steaming chamber I hope to finish and test today. I also just received Mike
Cuy's video recently and highly recommend it to any new builder.
I also recently reserved my N number. It is NX45BB. It was the last two
digit number available with a suffix of BB. I also went through all the "X"
business and finally just called the FAA to get the skinny. The info you
have been reading is quite correct. At the time of receiving your
airworthiness certificate, the FAA rep will O.K. the use of "X" in the
number.
I must say that I have been reading all the posts for quite some time now
and have learned much. Every time I think I have something to contribute,
someone else always seems to come back with what I was going to say before I
get a chance. That's O.K. I won't have to type as much.
Later.
Bob Butsch
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Homemade Turnbuckles |
Good idea, i think that would work fine -- probably take 6 different
sizes and be lighter.
On Mar 31, 2008, at 11:26 PM, BScott116@aol.com wrote:
> Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire?
>
> In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eng@canadianrogers.com
> writes:
> >
>
> Now, there's a good idea.
> Good thinking, Hans.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> hvandervoo@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:09 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>
> Bill,
>
> On your home made turn buckle, why not place a nut in the middle and
> have it
> soledered / brazed.
> Or perhaps even loctite (680) to keep it form rotating.
>
> Alternatively two small nuts "jammed"
>
> It is then easily adjustable with a "hex" in the middle
>
>
> my 2 =======================
> e the es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
> nbsp; - List Contribution Web
> Site ; ========================
>
>
> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
>
>
Thomas Bernie
tsbe
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Subject: | Re: Homemade Turnbuckles |
They are pain. Yours is a superior design design.
On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Bill Church wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> Nice photo.
> Your turnbuckles look very sililar to the Flitzer-style fittings.
> How are they for adjusting? (pain in the butt, or just as annoying
> as regular turnbuckles). Of course, the adjusting should be a one-
> time thing, so as long as they work, the extra fiddling (if any)
> should be inconsequential, in the long run.
> Will you need to safety wire the assembly, or does the jam-nut do
> that for you?
> Thanks for sharing.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
Thomas Bernie
tsbe
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Subject: | Re: Homemade Turnbuckles |
Bill, nice drawing - is that Inventor?
Kirk
On Apr 1, 2008, at 7:43 AM, Bill Church wrote:
> BScott,
> Hans wasn't saying to use this nut as a method to safety the
> turnbuckle, but rather, as an easier method to adjust the tension,
> since the adjusting can be done in the middle, as opposed to
> sticking an allen key inside the fitting. I've attached an image to
> help illustrate.
>
> <Outlook.jpg>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BScott116@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:26 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
> Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire?
>
> In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> eng@canadianrogers.com writes:
>
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana |
i have 108hp o-235 lyco but Aeronca wing, sorry no comparison with
Piete's undercut wing. N-1033B springs off the ground at all loads.
Realize Bernard didn't have the benefit of the NACA research done in the
late 30's and 40's., think he'd be proud to have tried todays modern
engines and flat bottomed wings. No harm in getting the best from this
fine flying machine.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:48 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Try a JATO unit?
Seriously, The main thing would be reduce drag and add power without
adding weight. Never under-estimate the drag of a Pietenpol - it is a
flying sea-anchor. The Pietenpol airfoil seems to have the remarkable
combination of low-lift / high drag. The Riblett airfoil has been flown
on a Pietenpol (Lowell Frank's) and is reported to have much improved
performance. More power is always a good thing, but it takes a lot of
power to make much impact on all that drag.
There are a number of Pietenpols flying with 100 or even 115 hp
engines. I have not flown one of them - every Piet I've flown has had a
65 Continental on the nose, and they've all flown about like mine.
Perhaps some of the pilots with 100 hp + on their Piets can comment on
the climb rates they get.
Remember, when you say "500-600 fpm at gross" you are asking for a
400% improvement. That's like me asking how to change my RV-4 from its
2000 fpm climb rate to an 8,000 fpm climb. It is too much to ask.
Jack Phillips
"The Pietenpol is Slow, but the Sky is Patient"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:27 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Given that the Piet is a "low and slow" airplane, what can be done
to get the rate of climb in the 500-600 range at gross?
Boyce
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you
is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- Norsk - Portuguese
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
.com
tronics.com/contribution
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Subject: | Homemade Turnbuckles |
Kirk,
It was created with SolidWorks.
Very similar to Inventor.
Very powerful and impressive CAD program.
Here's another view, but with metallic finishes rather than colours (or
colors).
Bill
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kirk
Huizenga
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Bill, nice drawing - is that Inventor?
Kirk
Message 32
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|
Hey guys! And ladies! I'm working on an article about Brodhead for the
Wisconsin Aviation Hall of Fame's quarterly magazine and need some pics of Piets
attending the annual fly-in. Would like some air-to-air shots, if possible. BTW
-- I'm not getting paid for this article...but will send copies of the
finished, published article to anyone that can help me out. Please send jpgs --
need
to be relatively high resolution. Say 300 dpi at 3x5 inches size. My e-mail is:
_TBYH@aol.com_ (mailto:TBYH@aol.com)
Meanwhile, I'm in the process of fastening the tail on the Piet...my wife
came down to the basement the other day and shrieked, "My God! It really is an
airplane!" Even she is a little impressed now...
Many thanks for any pics you can send!
Fred Beseler
La Crosse, WI
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
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Subject: | Re: "moth" wing tank |
Douwe
One fairly simple way of doing this problem is to calculate how many sq.
ft your tank is, then multiply by .625, times the height of the tank in
inches. There are .625 gal in 1 sq. ft, one inch deep.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "moth" wing tank
Hello,
For a long time, I've been thinking of "bumping" up the top of my wing
tank because I'd like to get an extra hour of fuel, so I'm looking for
around four, maybe five more gallons. It's really the only option I
have since I'm using a Ford and can't get the carb low enough for a nose
tank.
I'm thinking that if it wouldn't be too noticible on the ground since
it seems as if it only needs to come up a couple of inches.
I just can't figure the math though, if I generally follow the top
contour of the wing, and go almost to each side with the "bump" can
anyone estimate how high the highest spot would need to go to get about
five more gallons? My best guess is about 2.5 inches.
Also, it seems like it would make fueling easier if the cap was to one
side, but then I thought it might want to slosh out more in a bank than
if it was centered. Any thoughts or experience on this too?
Douwe
Message 34
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Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 35
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|
Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
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