Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:02 AM - Re: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? (Owen Davies)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders ()
3. 05:29 AM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Pietn38b)
4. 05:33 AM - Re: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? (Michael Silvius)
5. 05:41 AM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Michael Silvius)
6. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? (Gary Boothe)
7. 06:03 AM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Gary Boothe)
8. 07:04 AM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Steve Ruse)
9. 07:11 AM - Re: Home Made Air Speed Indicator - follow up notes (John Egan)
10. 07:17 AM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Brian Kraut)
11. 07:51 AM - Re: what kind of harley wheels? - H-D Sportster (John Egan)
12. 08:10 AM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Brian Kraut)
13. 08:20 AM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (TOM STINEMETZE)
14. 08:34 AM - This is not a Pietenpol but... (BYD@att.net)
15. 08:41 AM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Steve Ruse)
16. 09:04 AM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (TOM STINEMETZE)
17. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? (Owen Davies)
18. 09:14 AM - Re: This is not a Pietenpol but... (Michael Silvius)
19. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? (Owen Davies)
20. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: Newbie question (shad bell)
21. 12:12 PM - Re: This is not a Pietenpol but... (BYD)
22. 12:15 PM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Gene & Tammy)
23. 01:11 PM - Re: This is not a Pietenpol but... (bhassel)
24. 01:20 PM - Re: This is not a Pietenpol but... (BYD)
25. 01:28 PM - Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? (bhassel)
26. 01:57 PM - Re: This is not a Pietenpol but... (bhassel)
27. 02:05 PM - Antique Altimeters (Bill Church)
28. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Newbie question (walt evans)
29. 04:53 PM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (del magsam)
30. 06:39 PM - Jungster 1 (Gary Boothe)
31. 07:23 PM - Hickory (Gary Boothe)
32. 07:33 PM - Re: Hickory (Gary Boothe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? |
bhassel wrote:
> Don't stop there Owen! Sounds like a great set of ideas!
Trouble is, I'm nowhere near enough of an engineer to rework the wing.
What would it take, a sturdy built-up spar or two and a proper D-tube
leading edge? A full plywood cover? One might start by looking at the
Jodel wing. The D-11 is about the right empty weight for a heavy
Pietenpol, but its gross would take the "low-wing Piet" out of the LSA
category. I suppose if we design and build the plane we can set our own
gross? That leaves only the question of whether we really want to take a
relatively simple project and complicate it beyond all recognition.
Owen
Message 2
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| Subject: | Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders |
Mmmmmmmm? Fiber glass tank. Were you using gas with ethonal in it?
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Ruse
Sent: April 7, 2008 12:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning
to builders
First I guess I should state that I am a non-builder owner. I bought my
GN-1 3 years ago, and have flown it around 300hrs. It has about 500hrs
total time, and has been a great plane.
I took a friend up for a brief flight this evening, and when we landed I
started removing all of my fuel lines and fittings, I intend to replace
the rubber lines with stainless braided lines. My fuel tank is a
fiberglass 18.3 gallon tank in the nose. I was pulling the fuel line
off the nipple on the fuel valve at the bottom of the tank, and the
entire fuel valve, strainer, and all fittings broke right off the bottom
of the tank! This left the ~3/8" hole in the bottom of the tank wide
open, which poured some fuel into the cockpit until I was able to stick
my finger in the hole. I was working through an inspection hole on the
side of the fuse directly behind the firewall. There were at least 12
gallons of fuel in the tank, which we had to empty using a coffee can,
one can at a time. Luckily I had a friend there with me, I would've
been in trouble if I had been working alone like I usually am. As you
can imagine, this situation in itself created a fire hazard in the
hangar.
I was not using excessive force on the fuel line, a moderate kick by the
passenger would've had the same effect. It would've resulting in
immediate engine failure, a forced landing, and the emptying of the fuel
tank into the cockpit! A very, very bad situation! That is something
for builders to take note of, make sure your fuel fittings are very,
very sturdy! I was replacing the rubber fuel lines with stainless
braided lines to increase the strength of the whole system, little did I
know that the fuel tank fitting probably had less than 10% of the
strength of the rubber fuel lines that were installed.
Attached are three pictures of the broken fitting, as well as one
picture of the fitting I had taken several weeks ago to help me decide
what I needed to do to change the valve and hoses. As you can see, the
fitting and strainer were held to the tank only by a large glob of
fiberglass resin. There was no fiber in this glob, so the mechanical
bond to the tank was relatively weak. The "blob" was also placed on the
tank after the tank had cured, so the resins were not actually mixed,
the blob was just "stuck" on the cured tank. This was the only
mechanical bond between the tank fitting and the tank.
Now, I need to determine what to do to get the plane airworthy. I can
build another tank, or I could try to determine a way to attach my new
fuel valve to the old tank. Of course, my primary concern is being able
to attach the valve in a very secure manner. I believe replacing the
tank would legally require a new restricted fly-off period by the local
FSDO as it is a major change. I belive replacing the the existing fuel
valve would not require a new fly-off period.
Any tips anyone can give me on a good method to secure a new valve to
the existing tank would be greatly appreciated. I fly this plane a lot,
and flying season is here so I hate to have it down, but repairing it
properly and safely is my primary concern. I would like the new valve
to be mounted to the tank using a method that is strong enough that it
would damage the tank before the fitting would just fall off like this.
I will remove the tank this week and post a few pictures.
Thanks for any suggestions or input!
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders |
Steve
A quick fix, depending on fuel quantity requirements, would be to install a J-3
tank. I have one in mine and it works well. I am not a composite person but
would be very wary of a repair of a used composite tank. I don't live too far
from you so would be glad to show you my installation if you would like.
Jim Ballew
Pietenpol Aircamper
Collinsville, OK
918-371-9624
In a message dated 04/06/08 23:38:33 Central Daylight Time, steve@wotelectronics.com
writes:
First I guess I should state that I am a non-builder owner. I bought my GN-1 3
years ago, and have flown it around 300hrs. It has about 500hrs total time,
and has been a great plane.
I took a friend up for a brief flight this evening, and when we landed I started
removing all of my fuel lines and fittings, I intend to replace the rubber lines
with stainless braided lines. My fuel tank is a fiberglass 18.3 gallon tank
in the nose. I was pulling the fuel line off the nipple on the fuel valve
at the bottom of the tank, and the entire fuel valve, strainer, and all fittings
broke right off the bottom of the tank! This left the ~3/8" hole in the bottom
of the tank wide open, which poured some fuel into the cockpit until I was
able to stick my finger in the hole. I was working through an inspection hole
on the side of the fuse directly behind the firewall. There were at least
12 gallons of fuel in the tank, which we had to empty using a coffee can, one
can at a time. Luckily I had a friend there with me, I would've been in trouble
if I had been working alone like I usually am. As you can imagine, this situation
in itself created a fire hazard in the hanga
r.
I was not using excessive force on the fuel line, a moderate kick by the passenger
would've had the same effect. It would've resulting in immediate engine failure,
a forced landing, and the emptying of the fuel tank into the cockpit!
A very, very bad situation! That is something for builders to take note of,
make sure your fuel fittings are very, very sturdy! I was replacing the rubber
fuel lines with stainless braided lines to increase the strength of the whole
system, little did I know that the fuel tank fitting probably had less than
10% of the strength of the rubber fuel lines that were installed.
Attached are three pictures of the broken fitting, as well as one picture of the
fitting I had taken several weeks ago to help me decide what I needed to do
to change the valve and hoses. As you can see, the fitting and strainer were
held to the tank only by a large glob of fiberglass resin. There was no fiber
in this glob, so the mechanical bond to the tank was relatively weak. The "blob"
was also placed on the tank after the tank had cured, so the resins were
not actually mixed, the blob was just "stuck" on the cured tank. This was the
only mechanical bond between the tank fitting and the tank.
Now, I need to determine what to do to get the plane airworthy. I can build another
tank, or I could try to determine a way to attach my new fuel valve to the
old tank. Of course, my primary concern is being able to attach the valve
in a very secure manner. I believe replacing the tank would legally require a
new restricted fly-off period by the local FSDO as it is a major change. I belive
replacing the the existing fuel valve would not require a new fly-off period.
Any tips anyone can give me on a good method to secure a new valve to the existing
tank would be greatly appreciated. I fly this plane a lot, and flying season
is here so I hate to have it down, but repairing it properly and safely is
my primary concern. I would like the new valve to be mounted to the tank using
a method that is strong enough that it would damage the tank before the fitting
would just fall off like this. I will remove the tank this week and post
a few pictures.
Thanks for any suggestions or input!
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? |
Yes But the Spar on the D-11 is a bear to build with its built in washout.
Outermost wing profile beyond the crank pitches down in chord for lower
airspeed control while main wing is already staled and this is change in
pitch is built in to the box spar. I am completing a Falconar F-12 with this
detail.
And the one piece Jodel/Falconar wing at 27 feet is not the most convenient
in terms of work space. I had to build a bump out in my shop just to fit the
wing.
I do think the low wing Piet is attractive esthetically and it makes access
to the front cockpit a lot simpler. I think on order to do it properly one
would be best advised to look at the FlyBaby structure.
I would call it an Air-sportster instead of an Aircamper and leave the
Pietenpol part off in order not to offend the purists.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819@comcast.net>
> Trouble is, I'm nowhere near enough of an engineer to rework the wing.
> What would it take, a sturdy built-up spar or two and a proper D-tube
> leading edge? A full plywood cover? One might start by looking at the
> Jodel wing. The D-11 is about the right empty weight for a heavy
> Pietenpol, but its gross would take the "low-wing Piet" out of the LSA
> category. I suppose if we design and build the plane we can set our own
> gross? That leaves only the question of whether we really want to take a
> relatively simple project and complicate it beyond all recognition.
>
> Owen
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders |
If the tank is not weak elsewhere, I would clean it thoroughly, repair
appropriately with plenty of fiberglass and then slosh the tank with
POR15 to prevent the ethanol blends form affecting it further. I believe
the ethanol is a likely cause of your break. Others have fixed the
problem with the POR15 tank sealer.
Michael
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? |
Michael,
Thank you for the consideration of our tender feelings! For those who may
not have seen this, here is a link to the Spacewalker II:
http://www.me.mtu.edu/~jaricher/flying/warner_airplane_info.pdf.
It's a low wing, open cockpit, kit. Looks like it has a metal fuse and wood
& fabric wings...no struts.
Though I am a lifetime PT-22 fan, I have nearly maxed out on UV and the
shade of a high wing is welcome!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
WW Conversion 90% done,
Working on Tail Group (6 ribs down...)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Silvius
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Yes But the Spar on the D-11 is a bear to build with its built in washout.
Outermost wing profile beyond the crank pitches down in chord for lower
airspeed control while main wing is already staled and this is change in
pitch is built in to the box spar. I am completing a Falconar F-12 with this
detail.
And the one piece Jodel/Falconar wing at 27 feet is not the most convenient
in terms of work space. I had to build a bump out in my shop just to fit the
wing.
I do think the low wing Piet is attractive esthetically and it makes access
to the front cockpit a lot simpler. I think on order to do it properly one
would be best advised to look at the FlyBaby structure.
I would call it an Air-sportster instead of an Aircamper and leave the
Pietenpol part off in order not to offend the purists.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819@comcast.net>
> Trouble is, I'm nowhere near enough of an engineer to rework the wing.
> What would it take, a sturdy built-up spar or two and a proper D-tube
> leading edge? A full plywood cover? One might start by looking at the
> Jodel wing. The D-11 is about the right empty weight for a heavy
> Pietenpol, but its gross would take the "low-wing Piet" out of the LSA
> category. I suppose if we design and build the plane we can set our own
> gross? That leaves only the question of whether we really want to take a
> relatively simple project and complicate it beyond all recognition.
>
> Owen
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders |
I see that there is an aluminum disc attached to that whole mess. You might
consider epoxying two .040 aluminum straps (so that they will fit thru the
hole in the bottom) in a place where you can rivet or screw the 'disc' to
them. This in conjunction with cleaning and patching. That might give you a
fitting that is less likely to pull out. Also consider mounting that shut
off some where on the firewall, or the fuse side where it can be easily
reached, but secure.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
WW Conversion 90% done,
Working on Tail Group (6 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Silvius
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning
to builders
If the tank is not weak elsewhere, I would clean it thoroughly, repair
appropriately with plenty of fiberglass and then slosh the tank with POR15
to prevent the ethanol blends form affecting it further. I believe the
ethanol is a likely cause of your break. Others have fixed the problem with
the POR15 tank sealer.
Michael
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to |
builders
The plane has never had autogas in it. Avgas only. I believe the
problem here is that fiberglass resin was used as an adhesive or
"glue", with no fiber. It is my understanding that resin is not
intended for this purpose, and so the mechanical connection to the
tank was poor.
With sloshing compounds like POR15, how much concern is there with the
compound coming loose, even 20 years down the road? I've head of this
happening...of course once the compound is loose, it can clog the fuel
system. What is the life expectancy of POR15?
Who here is using a fiberglass tank? Do you have any pictures showing
how you attached your fuel tank fitting? I like the idea of putting
aluminum bracing inside the tank, perhaps with rivnuts or some other
permanent fasteners insde the tank in a 3" or so radius. Of course
I'll have to locate a magician who can make these components appear
inside the tank, or use straps as Gary suggested. That would be a
very strong connection to the tank.
Using a J3 tank had crossed my mind, but my current tank holds 18
gallons, I would like to not reduce my range at all. I have a 2.5hr
range currently, but I consider about 3 gallons in this tank unusable
due to its height above the carburetor (not enough head pressure to
meet the carb specs).
Also, I intend to put a cable operated remote fuel shut off in the
cockpit, that was part of my reason for doing messing with the whole
fuel system. With the original installation I couldn't reach the fuel
valve from the cockpit, and the original fuel valve was too stiff to
be cable operated. I bought a new valve that should work well with a
cable operator.
Thanks for the input so far, I really appreciate you builders helping
out a lowly non-builder.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting Michael Silvius <silvius@gwi.net>:
> If the tank is not weak elsewhere, I would clean it thoroughly,
> repair appropriately with plenty of fiberglass and then slosh the
> tank with POR15 to prevent the ethanol blends form affecting it
> further. I believe the ethanol is a likely cause of your break.
> Others have fixed the problem with the POR15 tank sealer.
>
> Michael
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Home Made Air Speed Indicator - follow up notes |
John, Regarding the vane style air speed indicator - Building Notes
I did not measure anything when building my airspeed indicator, however it's about
7-1/2" tall and about 5" wide at the bottom and about 1-1/2" at the top. If
I make another, I'll trim some width off the top. I started with a piece of
spring wire and found that I needed about a 7" length of wire on the paddle end
for the air pressure to deflect the spring a reasonable amount. I happen to
have some very thin spring wire (too thin) and some 0.078" dia wire which I
used, so my options on wire were limited. The wire stiffness helped to designate
the overall size of this.
I used 0.020" 6061 aluminum because that's the material I had laying around. I
added the 3/16" creases in it to stiffen it which worked very well. I milled
the 1/8" wide slot in the spring guide by drilling the two end holes, then I placed
a steel straight edge from hole to hole (tangent to the holes) and used
a little cut off wheel on the dremel tool to cut the straight line (guiding the
wheel against the straight edge). That took about four minutes total. I have
since pop riveted the spring guide to the body of the assembly. I originally
hesitated in fixing the spring guide to the body, until I decided how I would
attach the assembly to the jury strut. I thought I may use the same pop rivet
hole to hold the jury strut attachment fitting, as I was challenging myself
to make this out of as few pieces as possible, and to make it look simple.
I didn't have any little lock nuts for those small bolts either, so I made temporay
nuts out of a piece of
aluminum sheet.
I referenced the same documents that Bill Church posted (Chuck Larsen and Dawn
Patrol) to build mine. They were very helpful. As stated in my posting, I intend
this to be a decorative air speed indicator only, and I am not planning on
relying on it's accuracy, although I will try to tune it by bending the vane wire.
I am sure there is no right way to make these and like all Piets, every
one is a winner because some body built it to completion.
Thank you,
john e.
wisconsin
----- Original Message ----
From: "AMsafetyC@aol.com" <AMsafetyC@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 8:55:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Home Made Air Speed Indicator
For those of us that would like to try our hand, do you have dimensions and detail
drawing information from which to work?
John
In a message dated 4/2/2008 9:47:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, johnegan99@yahoo.com
writes:
Hello Group,
I've attached some photos of a home made Vane Type Air Speed Indicator I made.
The recent energy surrounding Bill's home made turnbuckles and hard wire brace
wires motivated me to attempt to make an air speed indicator. You may recognize
the design as I referanced an old Sport Aviation Article "Craftsman Corner"
by Chuck Larsen.
Although, not quite complete I'll share these photos hoping to create motivation
to others. I need to add a couple of rivets, paint, and make some kind of sticker
to indicate speed.
Material: 0.078" diameter spring wire, 0.020" thick 6061 aluminum sheet, two little
bolts, two little pop rivets (in place of the duct tape).
I found that the spring wire I used required only one wrap to make a torsion spring
with reasonable deflection. I made a couple of different size vanes to get
the required deflection for "Pietenpol speed". The whole assembly took about
two hours to build using simple tools (tin snips, hobby style 18" bench top
break, vise, drill, straight edge, belt sander, dremel tool and the like...).
I built it to the size and shape that looked appropriate for the job so I measured
nothing.
My intention is to hang this on the wing jury strut when I complete my Piet project
as a decorative air speed indicator, while the pitot tube airspeed indicator
is on the panel. This is a fun little project.
John E
Wisconsin
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders |
Looks from the pictures that the fitting just came unbonded from the tank,
not a break of the glass used to make the tank. Correct?
For one thing, looks like the metal was not bonded to the tank at all.
Looks like the metal was not even roughed up properly for gluing it. The
metal should be sanded with something like 60 grit sand paper then cleaned
with MEK. Or is the hole in the tank just so big that there is nothing to
glue to? Putting another four or five layers of glass on the tank in
something like six or eight inch round pieces over the hole should fix that
problem.
Also, is the tank resin the same thing that was used to glue the metal on?
Perhaps a vinyl ester or polyester resin tank that had the metal glued on
with epoxy?
Was the tank roughed up properly before glueing the metal on? My favorite
thing to use is a wire wheel on a drill. That does a much better job than
sand paper does.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ruse
Sent: April 7, 2008 12:34 AM
To: Pietenpol List
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to
builders
First I guess I should state that I am a non-builder owner. I bought my
GN-1 3 years ago, and have flown it around 300hrs. It has about 500hrs
total time, and has been a great plane.
I took a friend up for a brief flight this evening, and when we landed I
started removing all of my fuel lines and fittings, I intend to replace the
rubber lines with stainless braided lines. My fuel tank is a fiberglass
18.3 gallon tank in the nose. I was pulling the fuel line off the nipple on
the fuel valve at the bottom of the tank, and the entire fuel valve,
strainer, and all fittings broke right off the bottom of the tank! This
left the ~3/8" hole in the bottom of the tank wide open, which poured some
fuel into the cockpit until I was able to stick my finger in the hole. I
was working through an inspection hole on the side of the fuse directly
behind the firewall. There were at least 12 gallons of fuel in the tank,
which we had to empty using a coffee can, one can at a time. Luckily I had
a friend there with me, I would've been in trouble if I had been working
alone like I usually am. As you can imagine, this situation in itself
created a fire hazard in the hangar.
I was not using excessive force on the fuel line, a moderate kick by the
passenger would've had the same effect. It would've resulting in immediate
engine failure, a forced landing, and the emptying of the fuel tank into the
cockpit! A very, very bad situation! That is something for builders to
take note of, make sure your fuel fittings are very, very sturdy! I was
replacing the rubber fuel lines with stainless braided lines to increase the
strength of the whole system, little did I know that the fuel tank fitting
probably had less than 10% of the strength of the rubber fuel lines that
were installed.
Attached are three pictures of the broken fitting, as well as one picture
of the fitting I had taken several weeks ago to help me decide what I needed
to do to change the valve and hoses. As you can see, the fitting and
strainer were held to the tank only by a large glob of fiberglass resin.
There was no fiber in this glob, so the mechanical bond to the tank was
relatively weak. The "blob" was also placed on the tank after the tank had
cured, so the resins were not actually mixed, the blob was just "stuck" on
the cured tank. This was the only mechanical bond between the tank fitting
and the tank.
Now, I need to determine what to do to get the plane airworthy. I can
build another tank, or I could try to determine a way to attach my new fuel
valve to the old tank. Of course, my primary concern is being able to
attach the valve in a very secure manner. I believe replacing the tank
would legally require a new restricted fly-off period by the local FSDO as
it is a major change. I belive replacing the the existing fuel valve would
not require a new fly-off period.
Any tips anyone can give me on a good method to secure a new valve to the
existing tank would be greatly appreciated. I fly this plane a lot, and
flying season is here so I hate to have it down, but repairing it properly
and safely is my primary concern. I would like the new valve to be mounted
to the tank using a method that is strong enough that it would damage the
tank before the fitting would just fall off like this. I will remove the
tank this week and post a few pictures.
Thanks for any suggestions or input!
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
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| Subject: | Re: what kind of harley wheels? - H-D Sportster |
Hello Tom,
I've attached my information and photos regarding the Harley-Davidson rims and
spokes I used to build my Piet wheels. My disclaimer: This project is not complete
and the wheels have not been flown off or landed on, so no testing or experience
has occurred.
I bought the rims and spokes from "Doc's" motorcycle shop in Waterbury, Conn.,
and I referanced the Doc's part numbers below. I do not know if these are "Harley"
numbers as well. I believe Doc's in on-line.
Rims: Doc's part no: 15-944
250x19 40 hole, drop center steel $64.99 each
I was told at Doc's that this is a front rim for a Harley Davidson - Sportster
model
Spokes: Doc's part no: TR490892
Chrome spoke set $39.95 each set
the spokes are about 0.090" in diameter and fit the rims, however I do not know
if the spoke are used on a Sportster. I bought the spokes to fit my hub/rim
combination.
Photos attached.
john e.
wisconsin
----- Original Message ----
From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" <tmbrant1@netzero.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 5, 2008 10:36:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: what kind of harley wheels?
For those of you who've used the late model harley rims, which model bike are they
from - any late model?
Thanks,
Tom B.
_____________________________________________________________
Click here for a free search to find an interior design school near you.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngK3N6tBMTystjojQo0SvMIPLOvbJlPOPX6PnUl9zqYoqFo/
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
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http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to |
builders
With a properly prepared fuel tank surface and a properly prepared aluminum
piece you should be able to use just epoxy to stick them together. and it
should break the tank before the bond separated. Mixing glass in the resin
does you no good at all in this application
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Ruse
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting &
warning to builders
The plane has never had autogas in it. Avgas only. I believe the
problem here is that fiberglass resin was used as an adhesive or
"glue", with no fiber. It is my understanding that resin is not
intended for this purpose, and so the mechanical connection to the
tank was poor.
With sloshing compounds like POR15, how much concern is there with the
compound coming loose, even 20 years down the road? I've head of this
happening...of course once the compound is loose, it can clog the fuel
system. What is the life expectancy of POR15?
Who here is using a fiberglass tank? Do you have any pictures showing
how you attached your fuel tank fitting? I like the idea of putting
aluminum bracing inside the tank, perhaps with rivnuts or some other
permanent fasteners insde the tank in a 3" or so radius. Of course
I'll have to locate a magician who can make these components appear
inside the tank, or use straps as Gary suggested. That would be a
very strong connection to the tank.
Using a J3 tank had crossed my mind, but my current tank holds 18
gallons, I would like to not reduce my range at all. I have a 2.5hr
range currently, but I consider about 3 gallons in this tank unusable
due to its height above the carburetor (not enough head pressure to
meet the carb specs).
Also, I intend to put a cable operated remote fuel shut off in the
cockpit, that was part of my reason for doing messing with the whole
fuel system. With the original installation I couldn't reach the fuel
valve from the cockpit, and the original fuel valve was too stiff to
be cable operated. I bought a new valve that should work well with a
cable operator.
Thanks for the input so far, I really appreciate you builders helping
out a lowly non-builder.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting Michael Silvius <silvius@gwi.net>:
> If the tank is not weak elsewhere, I would clean it thoroughly,
> repair appropriately with plenty of fiberglass and then slosh the
> tank with POR15 to prevent the ethanol blends form affecting it
> further. I believe the ethanol is a likely cause of your break.
> Others have fixed the problem with the POR15 tank sealer.
>
> Michael
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to |
builders
Steve:
I am not a fiberglass expert by any means but I do have the assistance of
a son who is. He helped me in all stages of this fiberglass tank project
which is detailed in nauseating detail on the link below. When you get
WAY to the bottom you will see the finger strainers in their sumps. These
screw into brass fittings that look a little like a top hat with the brim
inside the tank. I'm not sure how you would do this now unless you were
willing to split your tank again so you could get you hands inside.
http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
>Who here is using a fiberglass tank? Do you have any pictures showing
>how you attached your fuel tank fitting?
Message 14
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| Subject: | This is not a Pietenpol but... |
In 2001, just after the first rumors about the new Sport Pilot Rule, a group of
Pietenpol builders in Italy got to thinking that the Piet would make a great
LSA. They decided to modernize the design and out of respect to Bernard named
the line Sport Campers just reflecting the original origin out of respect.
With the Sport Camper family of aircraft it is possible to choose between three
different aerodynamic layouts: the low wing "LoCamp"- the parasol wing "HiCamp"
- the biplane "BiCamp". The aircraft may look romantic, but under the skin
they are modern state of the art machines. All parts are CAD designed and produced
by CNC/laser cutting equipment to exacting tolerances and perfect finish.
www.aerolab.it
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to |
builders
Thanks Tom,
That is how I THOUGHT my tank was built, with some type of "top hat"
threaded device built into the tank, secured to the tank by layers of
glass on top and bottom of the "top hat" brim. That is how it should
have been done, at least in my opinion. Thanks for the pictures. Do
you know where the threaded brass "top hat" fitting came from? My
tank had the same finger strainer, but the strainer was just stuck to
the tank, there was no good mechanical bond.
Thanks,
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>:
> Steve:
>
> I am not a fiberglass expert by any means but I do have the
> assistance of a son who is. He helped me in all stages of this
> fiberglass tank project which is detailed in nauseating detail on
> the link below. When you get WAY to the bottom you will see the
> finger strainers in their sumps. These screw into brass fittings
> that look a little like a top hat with the brim inside the tank.
> I'm not sure how you would do this now unless you were willing to
> split your tank again so you could get you hands inside.
> http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm
> Tom Stinemetze
> McPherson, KS
>
>
>> Who here is using a fiberglass tank? Do you have any pictures showing
>> how you attached your fuel tank fitting?
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning |
to builders
Steve:
I got my finger strainers and the associated fittings from Aircraft
Spruce. I just did a quick search on their site but could not find it in
time to keep my boss from catching me on the web.
Tom S.
> Do you know where the threaded brass "top hat" fitting came from?
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? |
Michael Silvius wrote:
> Yes But the Spar on the D-11 is a bear to build with its built in washout. [etc.]
>
I wasn't thinking of using the wing itself, just considering that we
know the spar is strong enough because it already works. Now straighten
it out end-to-end, remove the washout, change the airfoil, etc. That is,
just use the D-11 wing as a model to make a self-supporting Piet wing.
I'd have to make two, because the only way I could be sure it was strong
enough is to break the first one. No doubt a decent engineer could just
run the numbers.
As for the inconvenience of a one-piece wing, I was seriously thinking
of making my Piet wing one piece just to avoid the weight of the
fittings. But if that doesn't bother you, no doubt the Jodel-style wing
could be subdivided as needed.
> I would call it an Air-sportster instead of an Aircamper and leave the
> Pietenpol part off in order not to offend the purists.
Fair enough.
Owen
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: This is not a Pietenpol but... |
Yes they look nice and the website is very slick but now you are in to a
kit. And you are thusly paying for someone else to do your work for you. The
whole appeal of the Pietenpol or for that matter the Flybaby is that you
build it from plans and raw materials and there is a real rustic simplicity
to them. It is about as economical as you can get in a real aircraft. I
would not be surprised to see you in for 50 thou $ by the time you are done
in on of them slick Italian kits.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: <BYD@att.net>
> In 2001, just after the first rumors about the new Sport Pilot Rule, a
group of Pietenpol builders in Italy got to thinking that the Piet would
make a great LSA. They decided to "modernize" the design and out of respect
to Bernard named the line "Sport Campers" just reflecting the original
origin out of respect.
>
> With the Sport Camper family of aircraft it is possible to choose between
three different aerodynamic layouts: the low wing "LoCamp"- the parasol wing
"HiCamp" - the biplane "BiCamp". The aircraft may look romantic, but under
the skin they are modern state of the art machines. All parts are CAD
designed and produced by CNC/laser cutting equipment to exacting tolerances
and perfect finish.
>
> www.aerolab.it
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? |
Gary Boothe wrote:
> Thank you for the consideration of our tender feelings! For those who may
> not have seen this, here is a link to the Spacewalker II:
> http://www.me.mtu.edu/~jaricher/flying/warner_airplane_info.pdf.
I have given the Spacewalker II serious thought, but it has two
drawbacks for me: They don't sell plans, just the kit. And the plane is
not LSA. They have been promising an LSA version for two years or more,
but it hasn't shown up yet, at least on the website.
Now, if I could find out how that wing is built, it might solve the
problem of how to build the un-Piet.
Owen
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie question |
I personally like Wicks Aircraft supply, out of ILL better for my wood orders.
I am building a Jungster 1 all wood bipe, and have found wicks' wood quality,
and clean cutting to be better than A.S.S.
Shad
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: This is not a Pietenpol but... |
Michael,
You are absolutey right!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175317#175317
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders |
Steve, another way to mount the valve may be with the "Rubber Tank
Grommet" that California Power Systems sells. They advertise it as
"snap-in fuel compatible rubber grommet for blind sealing of valves or
fittings in fuel tanks." "Requires 33/64" access hole in tank."
www.800-airwolf.come or 510-357-2403.
Good Luck and keep us posted
Gene in Tennessee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
4/5/2008 7:53 AM
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: This is not a Pietenpol but... |
Am I missing something or is there more to the web page than the picture. I could
find a links that would give any detail.
It looks like it has flaps. I love the low wing approach. Some how it looks even
more 30's - ish than the parasol.
hmmm....
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175324#175324
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: This is not a Pietenpol but... |
Should be hot-links along the bottom like Products and Events.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175326#175326
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? |
Top, bottom or both the question seems to keep coming up airfoil. Between the
Warner and the Italian version in the other link the lower winged Piet has some
real eye appeal.
A little stretched, bigger tail, different airfoil, did anyone say flaps (oh that
was me sorry - just indigestion). Fun, fun, fun!
Bob
Santa Fe, NM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175330#175330
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: This is not a Pietenpol but... |
Thanks - it looks like the color of the links was playing tricks on my old eyes.
Couldn't see the links at all.
Bob
Santa Fe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175335#175335
Message 27
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| Subject: | Antique Altimeters |
If you're in the market for an antique altimeter, this seller has three
different ones available:
http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZaircapinst
Starting bid is $300 for each. Auction ends in less than 24 hours, and
so far no bids.
Bill C.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie question |
Shad,
Saw your post on building a Jungster 1.
Nice small Biplane. How big a person can fit in the cockpit?
I like it's looks.
Just pondering project #3.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it"
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie question
I personally like Wicks Aircraft supply, out of ILL better for my wood
orders. I am building a Jungster 1 all wood bipe, and have found wicks'
wood quality, and clean cutting to be better than A.S.S.
Shad
Message 29
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| Subject: | Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders |
I wouldn't use that tank anymore if it were me.....On william wynns web page he
found a tank where they had used webbing from a lawn chair or something...not
saying that is what this is, but there is no way of knowing what went into this
tank.
Del
If the tank is not weak elsewhere, I would clean it thoroughly, repair
appropriately with plenty of fiberglass and then slosh the tank with POR15 to
prevent the ethanol blends form affecting it further. I believe the ethanol is
a likely cause of your break. Others have fixed the problem with the POR15 tank
sealer.
Michael
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
Message 30
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|
Walt,
My Dad inherited a Jungster 1 project about 20 years ago. He sold it before
completion, but the original builder/pilot was 6'4" and building the plane
for mega aerobatics. Not only was he comfortable, he had purchased a sliding
canopy for the project, under which he fit well in the mock up.
Sorry, Pieters, now back to old & slow.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail group awaiting hinges, working on longerons
(6 ribs down.)
Do not archive.
________________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie question
Shad,
Saw your post on building a Jungster 1.
Nice small Biplane. How big a person can fit in the cockpit?
I like it's looks.
Just pondering project #3.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it"
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie question
I personally like Wicks Aircraft supply, out of ILL better for my wood
orders. I am building a Jungster 1 all wood bipe, and have found wicks'
wood quality, and clean cutting to be better than A.S.S.
Shad
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 31
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Thank you,
Gary A. Boothe
CALPLY Sales Manager
Architectural Products Division
<mailto:gboothe@calply.com> gboothe@calply.com
Cell: (510) 760-0805
E-fax:(510) 880-5945
Message 32
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Sorry, List. That was a mis-que.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail Group awaiting hinges,
Working on fuse,
(6 ribs down...)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 7:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hickory
Thank you,
Gary A. Boothe
CALPLY Sales Manager
Architectural Products Division
<mailto:gboothe@calply.com> gboothe@calply.com
Cell: (510) 760-0805
E-fax:(510) 880-5945
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