Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? (Bill Church)
2. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM)
3. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? (Phillips, Jack)
4. 07:46 AM - Ada Air Expo 2008 (Terry Hall)
5. 08:14 AM - Re: Ada Air Expo 2008 (Steve Ruse)
6. 08:44 AM - Re: Ada Air Expo 2008 (Phillips, Jack)
7. 08:50 AM - Re: Ada Air Expo 2008 (Terry Hall)
8. 11:13 AM - Re: Ada Air Expo 2008 (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
9. 01:09 PM - Dumb wing spar mistake? (Ben Charvet)
10. 01:10 PM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Gordon Bowen)
11. 01:30 PM - Re: Dumb wing spar mistake? (Gene Rambo)
12. 02:26 PM - Re: Dumb wing spar mistake? (HelsperSew@aol.com)
13. 02:48 PM - Re: Dumb wing spar mistake? (walt evans)
14. 05:03 PM - FAA registration form (Douwe Blumberg)
15. 06:35 PM - Re: FAA registration form (hvandervoo@aol.com)
16. 08:23 PM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Steve Ruse)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? |
Well, obviously it is a Pietenpol.
It says so right on the . wheelpants?
Let's see, the builder changed the fuselage, cowl, tail, liftstruts,
cabanes, . oh, wait, the wing tips definitely look like genuine Pietenpol
wingtips.
I think the registration letters tell a tale.
VLP = Very Little Pietenpol
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Silvius
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
--> <silvius@gwi.net>
And what about this one?
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0320877&photo_nr
=62&prev_id=0353981&next_id=0314779&size=L
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? |
Several Years ago I saw a 1930s biplane fighter at an airshow (the Peashooter I
think) and when I asked the owner about making a replica he laughed and said
it was a restoration. He had recovered a wreck in South America and the left wingtip
and a part of a Longeron were origional and he "restored" the rest.
So All you really need is one or two parts.
Blue Skies
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
> Well, obviously it is a Pietenpol.
> It says so right on the . wheelpants?
>
> Let's see, the builder changed the fuselage, cowl, tail, liftstruts,
> cabanes, . oh, wait, the wing tips definitely look like genuine
> Pietenpolwingtips.
>
> I think the registration letters tell a tale.
> VLP = Very Little Pietenpol
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> MichaelSilvius
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:33 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
>
> --> <silvius@gwi.net>
>
>
> And what about this one?
>
> http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Pietenpol-
> Aircamper/0320877&photo_nr=62&prev_id=0353981&next_id=0314779&size=L
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? |
Looks like it used the same centerline as a "normal" Pietenpol.
Reminds me of when I was working for General Dynamics years ago. We got
a contract for a new reconnaisance airplane only because it was a
"modification" to an existing airplane, the B-57 Canberra. The new
RB-57 that we built had exactly one component in common with the
original B-57. It shared the same nosewheel. Other than that the only
common component, as the engineers joked, was the centerline of the
aircraft. Politically, it was easy to get funding for a modification,
but difficult to justify a whole new airplane program. And people
wonder why the Defense Department pays $1,000 for a hammer.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Well, obviously it is a Pietenpol.
It says so right on the ... wheelpants?
Let's see, the builder changed the fuselage, cowl, tail, liftstruts,
cabanes, ... oh, wait, the wing tips definitely look like genuine
Pietenpol wingtips.
I think the registration letters tell a tale.
VLP = Very Little Pietenpol
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of
Michael Silvius
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
--> <silvius@gwi.net>
And what about this one?
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0320877&phot
o_nr=62&prev_id=0353981&next_id=0314779&size=L
<http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0320877&pho
to_nr=62&prev_id=0353981&next_id=0314779&size=L>
_________________________________________________
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notify the sender
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rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 4
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Subject: | Ada Air Expo 2008 |
Greetings all,
I want to extend an invitation to all Piet enthusiasts in this part of
the country to join us for the 2008 version of the Ada Air Expo and the
2nd annual Pigs Can Fly BBQ contest held at the Ada Municipal Airport
(ADH) on Saturday, June 14, 2008.
Go to www.adaairexpo.com for more details.
Regards,
Terry Hall
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Ada Air Expo 2008 |
Terry,
I intend to be there, assuming I can get my fuel tank repaired before then.
Steve
Quoting Terry Hall <adaairport@cableone.net>:
> Greetings all,
>
> I want to extend an invitation to all Piet enthusiasts in this part
> of the country to join us for the 2008 version of the Ada Air Expo
> and the 2nd annual Pigs Can Fly BBQ contest held at the Ada
> Municipal Airport (ADH) on Saturday, June 14, 2008.
>
> Go to www.adaairexpo.com for more details.
>
> Regards,
> Terry Hall
Message 6
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Subject: | Ada Air Expo 2008 |
And what part of the country would that be? I guess if you have to ask,
you are not in that part of the country.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry
Hall
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:43 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ada Air Expo 2008
Greetings all,
I want to extend an invitation to all Piet enthusiasts in this part of
the country to join us for the 2008 version of the Ada Air Expo and the
2nd annual Pigs Can Fly BBQ contest held at the Ada Municipal Airport
(ADH) on Saturday, June 14, 2008.
Go to www.adaairexpo.com for more details.
Regards,
Terry Hall
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Ada Air Expo 2008 |
Sorry about that. I left out a key abbreviation--we are located in east
central Oklahoma. Thanks for the correction.
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ada Air Expo 2008
And what part of the country would that be? I guess if you have to
ask, you are not in that part of the country.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry
Hall
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:43 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ada Air Expo 2008
Greetings all,
I want to extend an invitation to all Piet enthusiasts in this part of
the country to join us for the 2008 version of the Ada Air Expo and the
2nd annual Pigs Can Fly BBQ contest held at the Ada Municipal Airport
(ADH) on Saturday, June 14, 2008.
Go to www.adaairexpo.com for more details.
Regards,
Terry Hall
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you
is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- Norsk - Portuguese
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Ada Air Expo 2008 |
Several years ago, Hoyt Axton in a Pizza Hut commercial dubbed it the
cultural center of the universe. Now that should be more than ample direction
and
give away clue as to the location of or where one can find Ada or as some
have described it :"greater Ader".
I hope that helped clarify the exact location, just look for the cultural
center of the universe!
John
In a message dated 4/9/2008 11:46:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com writes:
And what part of the country would that be? I guess if you have to ask, you
are not in that part of the country.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
____________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Hall
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:43 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ada Air Expo 2008
Greetings all,
I want to extend an invitation to all Piet enthusiasts in this part of the
country to join us for the 2008 version of the Ada Air Expo and the 2nd annual
Pigs Can Fly BBQ contest held at the Ada Municipal Airport (ADH) on
Saturday, June 14, 2008.
Go to _www.adaairexpo.com_ (http://www.adaairexpo.com/) for more details.
Regards,
Terry Hall
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________
proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 9
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Subject: | Dumb wing spar mistake? |
I've done something incredibly dumb. I carefully marked the rib
positions on my right wing spars (laminated 3/4 in DF) I decided to
rotate one of the spars 180 degrees because I wanted the one spliced
lamination on the wingtip end. I erased all the previous marks (I
thought). Long story short the marks where the lift strut brace go were
for the wrong orientation, and I drilled the three 1/4 inch holes about
2 inches from where they needed to be (inboard of the lift strut). No
problem, I thought, I'll just plug the holes with 1/4 inch dowel. I
hadn't glued the plywood doublers in place yet, so I redrilled the holes
in the correct place and glued the doublers in place, completely
covering my mistake. However, at 2 AM, the time I tend to wake up
thinking about stuff like this, I had second thoughts..... At this
point, I thought I'd throw it out to the list for opinions. Should I
remake the spar, or will the glued in plugs and plywood reinforcements
be acceptable?
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Headed to Sun'nFun tomorrow.. I'll ask Dick Navratil while I'm there
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning |
to builders
Steve,
I've built several epoxy tanks and can make the following suggestions:
a) you have to cut a hole in the top of the tank to be able to access
the interior or it will not hold, b) the hole in the top is less likely
to leak, c) get inside and scuff the surface up about 6" by 6" use min.
80 grit. d) using epoxy and flox, glue a 1/4 thick, 3" by 3" AL flat
stock over where you want the hole, on the inside of the tank. e) using
a satin weave like 7781 fiberglass, laminate over the AL flat stock,
after you have floxed the edges of the AL flat plate so the glass
laminate transitions smoothly to the tanks surface. f) use min. four
plies of fiberglass. g) now on the outside of the tank, laminate 4 plies
of epoxy and fiberglass about 8" by 8" over the area of the AL embedded
plate. h) after the epoxy cures, you may want to heat it with a hot air
gun until it's kinda hot to the touch. Drill and tap a hole for the
new threaded fuel fitting., i) vacuum up any drilling waste out of the
inside of the tank. j) now to fix the hole you cut in the top. Take the
piece you cut out and rough it up 80 grit. k) take popcicle or tongue
depresser sticks and flox them to the four sides of the cutout piece. l)
after they have set up, put the cut out piece back in the hole you cut,
using the sticks to support the cutout piece. m) using flox and epoxy
you can now tape a strip of epoxy around the edges you have cutout. n)
after this sets, remove the wooden sticks. Now put min. four plies of
epoxy/fiberglass over the entire cutout piece overlapping to the tank by
2" all around. The trick to getting good bonding is always make it very
very rough. Epoxy is hard to stick to, there's no chemical bond to the
tank's surface, so you have to get a good mechnical bond. Also, anytime
you're repairing a fuel tank, it's gonna have oils/fuel additives in the
epoxy, so you absolutely have to get these scrubbed off with acetone/
and 80grit to get a new laminate to bond properly. Any questions you
can give me a call at 907-235-4882 or email off group.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Ruse
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting &
warning to builders
I pulled the fuel tank out of the nose tonight, it literally took
about twenty minutes to remove the cover and fuel tank. What a simple
job! It is great to have something that is so easy to work on. Now I
have some questions about repairs to the tank:
The tank is mounted in the nose above the passenger's feet, so any
fuel leaks at this fitting are in the cockpit. For that reason, I'd
like the new fitting to be strong enough that the tank would break
before the fitting fell off. If this fitting had broken off in flight,
all of the fuel (18.3 gallons when full) would have drained into the
passenger floorboard (not to mention the engine would have been dead).
This experience has given me a strong appreciation for fuel tank designs
like Chuck Gantzer's, where the fuel is entirely isolated from the
cockpit interior. Excellent design, in my opinion.
For the new fuel fitting installation, I'd like to be able to screw a
90 degree elbow to the new tank fitting, and screw a new fuel valve to
the elbow, that way the valve won't drop 5" from the bottom of the tank
like it did on the original install. I also intend to install a cable
operated fuel shuttoff, which it didn't have before. I can handle all
of that, I just haven't done fiberglass work before, so I'm leary of
repairing the fiberglass tank myself. It is about 21" inches from the
filler neck down to the sump/fitting location (through the tank). There
is no way to access the inside of the tank except through the filler
neck. The tank is "three layers of fiberglass with Safe-T-Poxy"
according to the logbook.
Could I possibly cut an access hole in the top of the tank, install
the new fitting through that hole, and then patch the hole? Is patching
a fiberglass tank that simple?
Tom, I believe this is the "top hat" flange you were talking about,
that works with the finger strainer:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alumflange.php
Thanks for the help everyone.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting &
warning to builders
Steve:
I got my finger strainers and the associated fittings from Aircraft
Spruce. I just did a quick search on their site but could not find it
in time to keep my boss from catching me on the web.
Tom S.
> Do you know where the threaded brass "top hat" fitting came from?
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Dumb wing spar mistake? |
plugged and plywood plates it should be fine. I would not change
anything. I hate those middle of the night realizations . . . get some
sleep.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Charvet<mailto:bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dumb wing spar mistake?
<bcharvet@bellsouth.net<mailto:bcharvet@bellsouth.net>>
I've done something incredibly dumb. I carefully marked the rib
positions on my right wing spars (laminated 3/4 in DF) I decided to
rotate one of the spars 180 degrees because I wanted the one spliced
lamination on the wingtip end. I erased all the previous marks (I
thought). Long story short the marks where the lift strut brace go
were
for the wrong orientation, and I drilled the three 1/4 inch holes
about
2 inches from where they needed to be (inboard of the lift strut). No
problem, I thought, I'll just plug the holes with 1/4 inch dowel. I
hadn't glued the plywood doublers in place yet, so I redrilled the
holes
in the correct place and glued the doublers in place, completely
covering my mistake. However, at 2 AM, the time I tend to wake up
thinking about stuff like this, I had second thoughts..... At this
point, I thought I'd throw it out to the list for opinions. Should I
remake the spar, or will the glued in plugs and plywood reinforcements
be acceptable?
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Headed to Sun'nFun tomorrow.. I'll ask Dick Navratil while I'm there
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Dumb wing spar mistake? |
Ben,
I personally would not hesitate to fly behind this spar as repaired. The
doublers will strengthen the whole area and there is no way I see those holes
becoming a stress riser. When doing a repair of a cracked spar, the method is
simply to use plywood doublers per AC43-13.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Dumb wing spar mistake? |
Ben,
That's one of the great things about working with wood.
>From all I've heard from, including my Mentor, over the years,,,That's
completely acceptable for a wood fix.
Carry on
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dumb wing spar mistake?
>
> I've done something incredibly dumb. I carefully marked the rib positions
> on my right wing spars (laminated 3/4 in DF) I decided to rotate one of
> the spars 180 degrees because I wanted the one spliced lamination on the
> wingtip end. I erased all the previous marks (I thought). Long story
> short the marks where the lift strut brace go were for the wrong
> orientation, and I drilled the three 1/4 inch holes about 2 inches from
> where they needed to be (inboard of the lift strut). No problem, I
> thought, I'll just plug the holes with 1/4 inch dowel. I hadn't glued the
> plywood doublers in place yet, so I redrilled the holes in the correct
> place and glued the doublers in place, completely covering my mistake.
> However, at 2 AM, the time I tend to wake up thinking about stuff like
> this, I had second thoughts..... At this point, I thought I'd throw it
> out to the list for opinions. Should I remake the spar, or will the glued
> in plugs and plywood reinforcements be acceptable?
>
> Ben Charvet
> Mims, Fl
> Headed to Sun'nFun tomorrow.. I'll ask Dick Navratil while I'm there
>
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | FAA registration form |
After someone's post, I've decided to go ahead and register, rather than
renewing my N number each year.
Before I fill out the form though, I wanted to get your input on what I
should write in the "manufacturer and model" box, and in the "serial
number" box.
I'm thinking of putting "Pietenpol air camper experimental" in the first
and "Blumberg Pietenpol 001" in the second.
Thoughts/ experiences??
Thanks, as always.
Douwe
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: FAA registration form |
Douwe,
You are the manufacturer.
Or you might not get your repairman certificate for this Airplane!
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 7:01 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA registration form
After someone's post, I've decided to go ahead and register, rather
than renewing my N number each year.
Before I fill out the form though, I wanted to get your input on what I
should write in the "manufacturer and model" box, and in the "serial
number" box.
I'm thinking of putting "Pietenpol air camper experimental" in the
first and "Blumberg Pietenpol 001" in the second.
Thoughts/ experiences??
Thanks, as always.
Douwe
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning |
to builders
I pulled the fuel tank out of the nose last night, it literally took
about twenty minutes to remove the cover and fuel tank. What a simple
job! It is great to have something that is so easy to work on. Now I
have some questions about repairs to the tank:
The tank is mounted in the nose above the passenger's feet, so any fuel
leaks at this fitting are in the cockpit. For that reason, I'd like the
new fitting to be strong enough that the tank would break before the
fitting fell off. If this fitting had broken off in flight, all of the
fuel (18.3 gallons when full) would have drained into the passenger
floorboard (not to mention the engine would have been dead). This
experience has given me a strong appreciation for fuel tank designs like
Chuck Gantzer's, where the fuel is entirely isolated from the cockpit
interior. Excellent design, in my opinion.
For the new fuel fitting installation, I'd like to be able to screw a 90
degree elbow to the new tank fitting, and screw a new fuel valve to the
elbow, that way the valve won't drop 5" from the bottom of the tank like
it did on the original install. I also intend to install a cable
operated fuel shuttoff, which it didn't have before. I can handle all
of that, I just haven't done fiberglass work before, so I'm leary of
repairing the fiberglass tank myself. It is about 21" inches from the
filler neck down to the sump/fitting location (through the tank). There
is no way to access the inside of the tank except through the filler
neck. The tank is "three layers of fiberglass with Safe-T-Poxy"
according to the logbook.
Could I possibly cut an access hole in the top of the tank, install the
new fitting through that hole, and then patch the hole? Is patching a
fiberglass tank that simple?
Here are some pictures of the tank and fitting:
http://www.wotelectronics.com/Bottomoftank.JPG
http://www.wotelectronics.com/holeinbottomoftank.JPG
http://www.wotelectronics.com/Leftsideoftank.JPG
http://www.wotelectronics.com/oldfittingandfingerstrainer.JPG
Tom, I believe this is the "top hat" flange you were talking about, that
works with the finger strainer:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alumflange.php
Thanks for the help everyone.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Ruse
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting &
warning to builders
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting &
warning to builders
Steve:
I got my finger strainers and the associated fittings from Aircraft
Spruce. I just did a quick search on their site but could not find it
in time to keep my boss from catching me on the web.
Tom S.
> Do you know where the threaded brass "top hat" fitting came from?
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