Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:35 AM - Re: Ada Air Expo 2008 (Clif Dawson)
2. 08:40 AM - registration and paint cans (Douwe Blumberg)
3. 10:22 AM - Engine choices (Milt Atkinson)
4. 10:49 AM - Re: Engine choices (Michael Silvius)
5. 11:01 AM - Re: Engine choices (Dave Abramson)
6. 11:41 AM - Re: Engine choices (TOM STINEMETZE)
7. 12:26 PM - Re: Engine choices-- NO VW, Please! (Tim Willis)
8. 12:34 PM - georgia piets anyone? (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
9. 12:48 PM - Re: Engine choices (hvandervoo@aol.com)
10. 12:49 PM - Re: Engine choices (Bill Church)
11. 12:55 PM - Passenger seatbelt attach points (Tim Willis)
12. 01:04 PM - Re: Engine choices-- NO VW, Please! (Michael Silvius)
13. 01:16 PM - Re: Jungster 1 (iowaboy)
14. 01:22 PM - Re: Sky Scout for sale (iowaboy)
15. 01:58 PM - Re: Engine choices-- NO VW, Please! (jimd)
16. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: Sky Scout for sale (Brian Kraut)
17. 02:40 PM - Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points (TOM STINEMETZE)
18. 03:19 PM - Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
19. 03:56 PM - Re: registration and paint cans (gcardinal)
20. 04:34 PM - Re: You didn't say how many VW's... (Michael Conkling)
21. 09:03 PM - Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points (gcardinal)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Ada Air Expo 2008 |
You might have to ask Douglas Adams. :-)
Nasty Crow
I hope that helped clarify the exact location, just look for the
cultural center of the universe!
John
Message 2
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| Subject: | registration and paint cans |
Hey,
Please chime in re how to fill out my registration form so it doesn't
get sent back. Manufacturer and model? serial number?
Also, they want proof of purchase, how do you tell them it's
experimental, is that the affidavit?
Another subject, five gallon paint cans. Any great ideas for
transfering dope and thinners out of them?? they splash that expensive
stuff everywhere.
Douwe
Message 3
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Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine?
What are the pros and cons?
Milt Atkinson
(plans ordered . still dreaming)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
I know that the general advice is against it, however I know VW
conversions with the redrive fly on the CH701 and CH601. I am also aware
of a Pipper Cub in Brazil that has flown successfully on a VW.
it is experimental aviation after all.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt Atkinson
Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine?
Message 5
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Not enough weight.....
DIT-VIT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:20 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices
Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine?
What are the pros and cons?
Milt Atkinson
(plans ordered . still dreaming)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
> Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine?
>What are the pros and cons?
Milt:
Weight is the big issue as the heaviest weight I have found for a 4-cyl
flight ready VW is around 147 lbs.
A typical Corvair installation without the blower is 212 to 225 lbs.
I don't know about the Model A but I believe I have heard it is over
200 lbs also.
The nose would have to get pretty long to make that balance out and
then
you would have to deal with ground handling issues.
Tom Stinemetze
Message 7
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| Subject: | Engine choices-- NO VW, Please! |
The Piet has more drag than most, if not all of the planes flying VW engines.
There is not enough HP left after the Piet's drag to lift a fully loaded Piet
well, and the climb rate should be miserable. There has been enough recent discussion
about safe loads and climbing rates, clearing trees and steeples, etc.
in A-65 Piets on warm days.
The few CH601s or the exceptional Cub with a VW engine are much heavier than the
planes that usually have a VW engine, like a Flybaby or a Volksplane. Still,
they have less drag than a Piet. Moreover, the usual planes with VW engines
are single place. I don't think that the guys offering the CH601-701-801s recommend
any VW engines for their planes.
I have seen "never a VW" discussions in the Piet matronics archives. I've never
seen anyone justify its use on a Piet. Lastly, I don't think any experienced
aviator or builder would recommend using a VW on a Piet. That doesn't mean
that someone hasn't tried it, though. And it might work OK on a single-place
Scout with Riblett wings.
You'd still have weight and balance problems, though, as pointed out.
To me, the VW engine on a Piet sounds like a good way to end up as an FAA statistic
one warm day.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Abramson <davea@symbolicdisplays.com>
>Sent: Apr 10, 2008 12:58 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices
>
>Not enough weight.....
>
>DIT-VIT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:20 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices
>
>
> Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine?
>
>
> What are the pros and cons?
>
>
> Milt Atkinson
>
> (plans ordered . still dreaming)
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | georgia piets anyone? |
I am working in the greater Atlanta area next week for a few days and wanted
to visit a Piet, anyone interested?
Please advise
Thanks
John Recine
NX895BP reserved
In a message dated 4/10/2008 3:27:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
timothywillis@earthlink.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Tim Willis
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
The Piet has more drag than most, if not all of the planes flying VW
engines. There is not enough HP left after the Piet's drag to lift a fully loaded
Piet well, and the climb rate should be miserable. There has been enough
recent discussion about safe loads and climbing rates, clearing trees and
steeples, etc. in A-65 Piets on warm days.
The few CH601s or the exceptional Cub with a VW engine are much heavier than
the planes that usually have a VW engine, like a Flybaby or a Volksplane.
Still, they have less drag than a Piet. Moreover, the usual planes with VW
engines are single place. I don't think that the guys offering the
CH601-701-801s recommend any VW engines for their planes.
I have seen "never a VW" discussions in the Piet matronics archives. I've
never seen anyone justify its use on a Piet. Lastly, I don't think any
experienced aviator or builder would recommend using a VW on a Piet. That doesn't
mean that someone hasn't tried it, though. And it might work OK on a
single-place Scout with Riblett wings.
You'd still have weight and balance problems, though, as pointed out.
To me, the VW engine on a Piet sounds like a good way to end up as an FAA
statistic one warm day.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Abramson <davea@symbolicdisplays.com>
>Sent: Apr 10, 2008 12:58 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices
>
>Not enough weight.....
>
>DIT-VIT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:20 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices
>
>
> Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine?
>
>
> What are the pros and cons?
>
>
> Milt Atkinson
>
> (plans ordered . still dreaming)
>
>
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
Milt,
Many have considered it but there are two problems with the VW.
Both can be fixed and sooner or later someone will Fly one successfully
on a Pietenpol
problem 1; Weight
The VW would require a longer nose to balance the airplane.
The longer nose would create a aerodynamic unbalance and you probably
would have to increase the rudder and vertical stab.
Problem 2: Prop efficiency
The VW has enough HP but at higher RPM, which results in small diameter
props
Small diameter prop is not a good combination on a slow and high drag
airplane like a Pietenpol
Solution: PSRU, there are a few VW based systems that might work,
larger prop lower RPM and more weight.
But it might work
Hans
Flying NX15KV with Corvair power
-----Original Message-----
From: Milt Atkinson <miltatkinson@verizon.net>
Sent: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:19 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices
Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine?
What are the pros and cons?
Milt Atkinson
(plans ordered still dreaming)
Message 10
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Here's a link to an analysis of the VW engine as applied to a Piet (among
other things).
http://users.aol.com/bpanews/3questions.html#vw
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices
Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine?
What are the pros and cons?
Milt Atkinson
(plans ordered . still dreaming)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Passenger seatbelt attach points |
Many months back I asked about seatbelt attach points and shoulder harness attach
points. I got excellent answers on 3 out of 4-- everything except the PASSENGER
seat belt attach points. I got no answers for that. I need some help,
please.
Seatbelt attach points for the passenger are problematic to me. Between a) having
nearby only skinny little sticks-- both those making diagonals near the control
assembly, and those holding up the passenger seat; and b) needing to accommodate
room for my overlarge feet, there is neither much existing strength for
a high-G seatbelt load, nor much room for added structure.
I will soon be making some rearrangements in the passenger seatback to give myself
more shin room, so I would like to solve the passenger seatbelt attach points
at the same time.
I am thinking of incorporating cables to the tailpost area, to transfer the load,
as many have done with the pilot's seatbelt attachments. But in a crash, what
keeps the more proximate steel fittings from popping loose from the floor,
the seatback supports, or whatever? Obviously, I am looking for strength without
much added weight, and it has to be slim, too, because, well, I am not.
Thanks,
Tim in central TX
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices-- NO VW, Please! |
Tim:
For what it is worth, the CH 701 was designed around the VW engine. Most do
use a redrive and it was at one point the only engine recommended by Chris
Heinz.
see:
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo18.html
and
http://www.culverprops.com/zenith-701.php
that swings a convetional length prop.
The 801 is a different animal all together.
This however does not mean that the VW is a suitable engine for a Pietenpol
The Pete Bowers specifically pointed out that the VW was not suitable for
the Flybaby for the same reasons you state.
Personaly beyond the Corvair I'd consider the Subaru EA81 wiht a belt
redrive as an alternative for the Piet.
like tis one:
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=19
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
> The few CH601s or the exceptional Cub with a VW engine are much heavier
than the planes that usually have a VW engine, like a Flybaby or a
Volksplane. Still, they have less drag than a Piet. Moreover, the usual
planes with VW engines are single place. I don't think that the guys
offering the CH601-701-801s recommend any VW engines for their planes.
Message 13
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Walt,
I sell the Jungster 1 plans for Stan McLeod. The Jungster 1 has a narrow fuselage,
so if you are very big, you need to widen it. That is very simple to do.
It is a very nice flying airplane if built to plans, light and you make the
landing gear correctly.
According to Stan, many a homebuilt taildragger has the landing gear set up wrong.
I have a Jungster 1 project for sale. Shad is doing a nice job on his Jungster
1. He is going to have a bunch of fun some day!
Pastor Mike Townsley in Iowa
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175985#175985
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout for sale |
Would you sell it without the engine, without the prop, with out the radiator?
If so, what is your asking price?
Thank you,
Mike
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175986#175986
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices-- NO VW, Please! |
Think I would rather consider something that would work well on a hot day, ways
about the same as an 0-200 and can be purchased new with a warranty like the
Franklin 0-235 PZL, they are on sale for $6900.
http://www.franklinengines.com/index.cfm
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175992#175992
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout for sale |
I guess. I have a bunch to do and am leaving to go back to Sun N Fun in the
morning. Give me a few days to think about it.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of iowaboy
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout for sale
Would you sell it without the engine, without the prop, with out the
radiator?
If so, what is your asking price?
Thank you,
Mike
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175986#175986
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points |
> PASSENGER seat belt attach points. I got no answers for that. I need
some help, please.
I would like to echo this request. It appears the only place to attach
the passenger seat belts would
depend on a glue joint in shear for strength - not a good thing.
Tom Stinemetze
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points |
Tom,
Here is what I designed and fabricated for my front passenger. I also used an
angle iron cross bar that runs across the bottom and uses the both side longerons
for grip. Then I used the seat belt clasp and drilled the hole larger to
accept the bolt which hold the passenger should harness. The harness is from a
local dirt racing store. $34.00 for each set with all mounting brackets.
TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@MCPCITY.COM> wrote:
> PASSENGER seat belt attach points. I got no answers for that. I need
some help, please.
I would like to echo this request. It appears the only place to attach the passenger
seat belts would
depend on a glue joint in shear for strength - not a good thing.
Tom Stinemetze
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
__________________________________________________
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: registration and paint cans |
Hi Douwe,
Only one name in the "Manufacturer" box. If you are building with one or
more people only one of you can be the manufacturer.
Model and serial number is your choice.
Do NOT attempt to register it as a "Glider, self-launching". It will add
about 6 months to your paperwork schedule........
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration and paint cans
Hey,
Please chime in re how to fill out my registration form so it doesn't
get sent back. Manufacturer and model? serial number?
Also, they want proof of purchase, how do you tell them it's
experimental, is that the affidavit?
Another subject, five gallon paint cans. Any great ideas for
transfering dope and thinners out of them?? they splash that expensive
stuff everywhere.
Douwe
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: You didn't say how many VW's... |
About 40 years ago, a guy by the name of Lacey in Tulsa did use a pair
of 40hp VW engines to repower his M-10 homebuilt (it did have a C-90) --
the swept area of (2) 4 1/2 ft dia. VW props is a bit more than that of
a 6ft Piet prop.
What Would Bernard have Done?? Who knows!
Cheers!
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points |
On NX18235 the passenger lap belt is anchored to the ash cross piece at the
bottom of the seatback. The shoulder harness is anchored to a lug that is
welded to the right rear cabane strut.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points
> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Many months back I asked about seatbelt attach points and shoulder harness
> attach points. I got excellent answers on 3 out of 4-- everything except
> the PASSENGER seat belt attach points. I got no answers for that. I need
> some help, please.
>
> Seatbelt attach points for the passenger are problematic to me. Between
> a) having nearby only skinny little sticks-- both those making diagonals
> near the control assembly, and those holding up the passenger seat; and b)
> needing to accommodate room for my overlarge feet, there is neither much
> existing strength for a high-G seatbelt load, nor much room for added
> structure.
>
> I will soon be making some rearrangements in the passenger seatback to
> give myself more shin room, so I would like to solve the passenger
> seatbelt attach points at the same time.
>
> I am thinking of incorporating cables to the tailpost area, to transfer
> the load, as many have done with the pilot's seatbelt attachments. But in
> a crash, what keeps the more proximate steel fittings from popping loose
> from the floor, the seatback supports, or whatever? Obviously, I am
> looking for strength without much added weight, and it has to be slim,
> too, because, well, I am not.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim in central TX
>
>
>
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