Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:02 AM - seat belt and shoulder harness (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 10:13 AM - Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] (Ben Charvet)
3. 11:32 AM - Re: seat belt and shoulder harness (Kip and Beth Gardner)
4. 01:13 PM - seat belt and shoulder harness (santiago morete)
5. 02:17 PM - Re: seat belt and shoulder harness ()
6. 05:07 PM - Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] (Rob Hart)
7. 07:12 PM - Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] (Ben Charvet)
Message 1
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Subject: | seat belt and shoulder harness |
I too have always questioned the strength of the wing to resist forward
movement in the event of a crash. The original "X" bracing added one
cable to help keep the center section from displacing forward, while the
Diagonal struts add two tubes in compression, which may or may not be as
strong depending upon the tubing used, it is very posssibly stronger in
many installations. The forward facing "drag?" wire in the struts would
resist some forward movement, but I"m not sure how much given the
narrow/low angle relative to the wing. How many G's are we talking
about anyways? what does the entire wing weigh, how much force is
involved in a sudden stop?
My plane has wooden cabanes and wood diagonal braces with a steel strap
inside of them. This design of diagonal would clearly have no
compressive strength. I am therefore thinking of using the "X" bracing
as well. I was then hoping to feel confident enough to attach the front
shoulder harnesses to the center of the "X" formed by the cables (rods
in my plane) behind the front pit. Being lower, I felt that if the wing
displaced diagonally it wouldn't tighten up on the passenger as much.
FYI, like many others, I attached my front lap belt by drilling through
the ash crosspiece, and through the steel strap connecting the fittings
under the fuselage. However, I went just INSIDE the seat uprights and
through two slits in the back of the seat bottom. This is pretty
narrow, but really not much moreso than coming up outside the seat sides
and it really helps to keep the belt away from the pilot's feet.
Douwe
Message 2
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Subject: | Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] |
I got this idea from the UK website. The rear mounts bolt through the
upper longeron and an extra cross piece I glued in. The forward end is
mounted to the through bolts for the cabanes. I turned down a piece of
steel rod to fit inside the tube, welded it in place, then drilled and
tapped it for the bolt.. It doesn't weigh much, and gets the shoulder
harness up to shoulder level. I've seen the results of harness failures
in a friend at our local airport, and it isn't pretty. Unfortunately,
its impossible to test it, (I hope to never have to test it) but this
seems to take advantage of the structure available for mounting.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1576&PlaneID=481
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: seat belt and shoulder harness |
As many of you know, I don't post to the list much any more, but I
thought I'd throw this thought into the mix. The Brits have a PFA-
approved design for front passenger shoulder strap & lap belt
attachment. It involves a welded assembly behind the front headrest
that carries down & attaches at several other points on the fuse
(don't recall all the details right now). Someone sent me a scan of
the drawing several years ago, unfortunately the quality is not good
enough to rescan & send out. Although it will add some weight, it is
a very sensible design. Attaching a harness to the cabanes or x-
wires gives me the heebie-jeebies just on principle.
Kip Gardner
On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> I too have always questioned the strength of the wing to resist
> forward movement in the event of a crash. The original "X" bracing
> added one cable to help keep the center section from displacing
> forward, while the Diagonal struts add two tubes in compression,
> which may or may not be as strong depending upon the tubing used,
> it is very posssibly stronger in many installations. The forward
> facing "drag?" wire in the struts would resist some forward
> movement, but I"m not sure how much given the narrow/low angle
> relative to the wing. How many G's are we talking about anyways?
> what does the entire wing weigh, how much force is involved in a
> sudden stop?
>
> My plane has wooden cabanes and wood diagonal braces with a steel
> strap inside of them. This design of diagonal would clearly have
> no compressive strength. I am therefore thinking of using the "X"
> bracing as well. I was then hoping to feel confident enough to
> attach the front shoulder harnesses to the center of the "X" formed
> by the cables (rods in my plane) behind the front pit. Being
> lower, I felt that if the wing displaced diagonally it wouldn't
> tighten up on the passenger as much.
>
> FYI, like many others, I attached my front lap belt by drilling
> through the ash crosspiece, and through the steel strap connecting
> the fittings under the fuselage. However, I went just INSIDE the
> seat uprights and through two slits in the back of the seat
> bottom. This is pretty narrow, but really not much moreso than
> coming up outside the seat sides and it really helps to keep the
> belt away from the pilot's feet.
>
> Douwe
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | seat belt and shoulder harness |
Go to www.westcoastpiet.com/seatbelts.htm
Santiago
---------------------------------
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Message 5
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Subject: | Re: seat belt and shoulder harness |
Scans of the PFA-approved design. http://westcoastpiet.com/seatbelts.htm
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belt and shoulder harness
As many of you know, I don't post to the list much any more, but I
thought I'd throw this thought into the mix. The Brits have a
PFA-approved design for front passenger shoulder strap & lap belt
attachment. It involves a welded assembly behind the front headrest
that carries down & attaches at several other points on the fuse (don't
recall all the details right now). Someone sent me a scan of the
drawing several years ago, unfortunately the quality is not good enough
to rescan & send out. Although it will add some weight, it is a very
sensible design. Attaching a harness to the cabanes or x-wires gives me
the heebie-jeebies just on principle.
Kip Gardner
On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
I too have always questioned the strength of the wing to resist
forward movement in the event of a crash. The original "X" bracing
added one cable to help keep the center section from displacing forward,
while the Diagonal struts add two tubes in compression, which may or may
not be as strong depending upon the tubing used, it is very posssibly
stronger in many installations. The forward facing "drag?" wire in the
struts would resist some forward movement, but I"m not sure how much
given the narrow/low angle relative to the wing. How many G's are we
talking about anyways? what does the entire wing weigh, how much force
is involved in a sudden stop?
My plane has wooden cabanes and wood diagonal braces with a steel
strap inside of them. This design of diagonal would clearly have no
compressive strength. I am therefore thinking of using the "X" bracing
as well. I was then hoping to feel confident enough to attach the front
shoulder harnesses to the center of the "X" formed by the cables (rods
in my plane) behind the front pit. Being lower, I felt that if the wing
displaced diagonally it wouldn't tighten up on the passenger as much.
FYI, like many others, I attached my front lap belt by drilling
through the ash crosspiece, and through the steel strap connecting the
fittings under the fuselage. However, I went just INSIDE the seat
uprights and through two slits in the back of the seat bottom. This is
pretty narrow, but really not much moreso than coming up outside the
seat sides and it really helps to keep the belt away from the pilot's
feet.
Douwe
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Message 6
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Subject: | Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] |
Hi Ben
Thanks for the picture. How did you safety the lower cabane mounting bolts
?
Cheers
Rob Hart
One of four builders in Perth, Western Australia
> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:10:05 -0400> From: bcharvet@bellsouth.net> To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt a
arvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>> > I got this idea from the UK website. The
rear mounts bolt through the > upper longeron and an extra cross piece I gl
ued in. The forward end is > mounted to the through bolts for the cabanes.
I turned down a piece of > steel rod to fit inside the tube, welded it in p
lace, then drilled and > tapped it for the bolt.. It doesn't weigh much, an
d gets the shoulder > harness up to shoulder level. I've seen the results o
f harness failures > in a friend at our local airport, and it isn't pretty.
Unfortunately, > its impossible to test it, (I hope to never have to test
it) but this > seems to take advantage of the structure available for mount
ing.> > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogI
===================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au
e%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813
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Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] |
I plan to use drilled head bolts, but I haven't figured out what to wire
them to yet. Building a Piet is full of creative things like this isn't it?
Ben
Rob Hart wrote:
> Hi Ben
>
> Thanks for the picture. How did you safety the lower cabane mounting
> bolts?
>
> Cheers
>
> Rob Hart
> One of four builders in Perth, Western Australia
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:10:05 -0400
> > From: bcharvet@bellsouth.net
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it]
> >
> <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
> >
> > I got this idea from the UK website. The rear mounts bolt through the
> > upper longeron and an extra cross piece I glued in. The forward end is
> > mounted to the through bolts for the cabanes. I turned down a piece of
> > steel rod to fit inside the tube, welded it in place, then drilled and
> > tapped it for the bolt.. It doesn't weigh much, and gets the shoulder
> > harness up to shoulder level. I've seen the results of harness failures
> > in a friend at our local airport, and it isn't pretty. Unfortunately,
> > its impossible to test it, (I hope to never have to test it) but this
> > seems to take advantage of the structure available for mounting.
> >
> >
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1576&PlaneI======================
> &g=================
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! Sell your car for just $30
>
> *
>
>
> *
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