---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/12/08: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:02 AM - seat belt and shoulder harness (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 10:13 AM - Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] (Ben Charvet) 3. 11:32 AM - Re: seat belt and shoulder harness (Kip and Beth Gardner) 4. 01:13 PM - seat belt and shoulder harness (santiago morete) 5. 02:17 PM - Re: seat belt and shoulder harness () 6. 05:07 PM - Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] (Rob Hart) 7. 07:12 PM - Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] (Ben Charvet) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:41 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: seat belt and shoulder harness I too have always questioned the strength of the wing to resist forward movement in the event of a crash. The original "X" bracing added one cable to help keep the center section from displacing forward, while the Diagonal struts add two tubes in compression, which may or may not be as strong depending upon the tubing used, it is very posssibly stronger in many installations. The forward facing "drag?" wire in the struts would resist some forward movement, but I"m not sure how much given the narrow/low angle relative to the wing. How many G's are we talking about anyways? what does the entire wing weigh, how much force is involved in a sudden stop? My plane has wooden cabanes and wood diagonal braces with a steel strap inside of them. This design of diagonal would clearly have no compressive strength. I am therefore thinking of using the "X" bracing as well. I was then hoping to feel confident enough to attach the front shoulder harnesses to the center of the "X" formed by the cables (rods in my plane) behind the front pit. Being lower, I felt that if the wing displaced diagonally it wouldn't tighten up on the passenger as much. FYI, like many others, I attached my front lap belt by drilling through the ash crosspiece, and through the steel strap connecting the fittings under the fuselage. However, I went just INSIDE the seat uprights and through two slits in the back of the seat bottom. This is pretty narrow, but really not much moreso than coming up outside the seat sides and it really helps to keep the belt away from the pilot's feet. Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:32 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] I got this idea from the UK website. The rear mounts bolt through the upper longeron and an extra cross piece I glued in. The forward end is mounted to the through bolts for the cabanes. I turned down a piece of steel rod to fit inside the tube, welded it in place, then drilled and tapped it for the bolt.. It doesn't weigh much, and gets the shoulder harness up to shoulder level. I've seen the results of harness failures in a friend at our local airport, and it isn't pretty. Unfortunately, its impossible to test it, (I hope to never have to test it) but this seems to take advantage of the structure available for mounting. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1576&PlaneID=481 Ben Charvet Mims, Fl ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:32:35 AM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belt and shoulder harness As many of you know, I don't post to the list much any more, but I thought I'd throw this thought into the mix. The Brits have a PFA- approved design for front passenger shoulder strap & lap belt attachment. It involves a welded assembly behind the front headrest that carries down & attaches at several other points on the fuse (don't recall all the details right now). Someone sent me a scan of the drawing several years ago, unfortunately the quality is not good enough to rescan & send out. Although it will add some weight, it is a very sensible design. Attaching a harness to the cabanes or x- wires gives me the heebie-jeebies just on principle. Kip Gardner On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > I too have always questioned the strength of the wing to resist > forward movement in the event of a crash. The original "X" bracing > added one cable to help keep the center section from displacing > forward, while the Diagonal struts add two tubes in compression, > which may or may not be as strong depending upon the tubing used, > it is very posssibly stronger in many installations. The forward > facing "drag?" wire in the struts would resist some forward > movement, but I"m not sure how much given the narrow/low angle > relative to the wing. How many G's are we talking about anyways? > what does the entire wing weigh, how much force is involved in a > sudden stop? > > My plane has wooden cabanes and wood diagonal braces with a steel > strap inside of them. This design of diagonal would clearly have > no compressive strength. I am therefore thinking of using the "X" > bracing as well. I was then hoping to feel confident enough to > attach the front shoulder harnesses to the center of the "X" formed > by the cables (rods in my plane) behind the front pit. Being > lower, I felt that if the wing displaced diagonally it wouldn't > tighten up on the passenger as much. > > FYI, like many others, I attached my front lap belt by drilling > through the ash crosspiece, and through the steel strap connecting > the fittings under the fuselage. However, I went just INSIDE the > seat uprights and through two slits in the back of the seat > bottom. This is pretty narrow, but really not much moreso than > coming up outside the seat sides and it really helps to keep the > belt away from the pilot's feet. > > Douwe > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:36 PM PST US From: santiago morete Subject: Pietenpol-List: seat belt and shoulder harness Go to www.westcoastpiet.com/seatbelts.htm Santiago --------------------------------- Yahoo! Encuentros Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho ms fcil, prob el nuevo Yahoo! Encuentros. Visit http://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:36 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belt and shoulder harness Scans of the PFA-approved design. http://westcoastpiet.com/seatbelts.htm Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Kip and Beth Gardner To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belt and shoulder harness As many of you know, I don't post to the list much any more, but I thought I'd throw this thought into the mix. The Brits have a PFA-approved design for front passenger shoulder strap & lap belt attachment. It involves a welded assembly behind the front headrest that carries down & attaches at several other points on the fuse (don't recall all the details right now). Someone sent me a scan of the drawing several years ago, unfortunately the quality is not good enough to rescan & send out. Although it will add some weight, it is a very sensible design. Attaching a harness to the cabanes or x-wires gives me the heebie-jeebies just on principle. Kip Gardner On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: I too have always questioned the strength of the wing to resist forward movement in the event of a crash. The original "X" bracing added one cable to help keep the center section from displacing forward, while the Diagonal struts add two tubes in compression, which may or may not be as strong depending upon the tubing used, it is very posssibly stronger in many installations. The forward facing "drag?" wire in the struts would resist some forward movement, but I"m not sure how much given the narrow/low angle relative to the wing. How many G's are we talking about anyways? what does the entire wing weigh, how much force is involved in a sudden stop? My plane has wooden cabanes and wood diagonal braces with a steel strap inside of them. This design of diagonal would clearly have no compressive strength. I am therefore thinking of using the "X" bracing as well. I was then hoping to feel confident enough to attach the front shoulder harnesses to the center of the "X" formed by the cables (rods in my plane) behind the front pit. Being lower, I felt that if the wing displaced diagonally it wouldn't tighten up on the passenger as much. FYI, like many others, I attached my front lap belt by drilling through the ash crosspiece, and through the steel strap connecting the fittings under the fuselage. However, I went just INSIDE the seat uprights and through two slits in the back of the seat bottom. This is pretty narrow, but really not much moreso than coming up outside the seat sides and it really helps to keep the belt away from the pilot's feet. Douwe http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:46 PM PST US From: Rob Hart Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] Hi Ben Thanks for the picture. How did you safety the lower cabane mounting bolts ? Cheers Rob Hart One of four builders in Perth, Western Australia > Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:10:05 -0400> From: bcharvet@bellsouth.net> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt a arvet > > I got this idea from the UK website. The rear mounts bolt through the > upper longeron and an extra cross piece I gl ued in. The forward end is > mounted to the through bolts for the cabanes. I turned down a piece of > steel rod to fit inside the tube, welded it in p lace, then drilled and > tapped it for the bolt.. It doesn't weigh much, an d gets the shoulder > harness up to shoulder level. I've seen the results o f harness failures > in a friend at our local airport, and it isn't pretty. Unfortunately, > its impossible to test it, (I hope to never have to test it) but this > seems to take advantage of the structure available for mount ing.> > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogI ===================> > > _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au e%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813 %2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:22 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] I plan to use drilled head bolts, but I haven't figured out what to wire them to yet. Building a Piet is full of creative things like this isn't it? Ben Rob Hart wrote: > Hi Ben > > Thanks for the picture. How did you safety the lower cabane mounting > bolts? > > Cheers > > Rob Hart > One of four builders in Perth, Western Australia > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:10:05 -0400 > > From: bcharvet@bellsouth.net > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] > > > > > > > I got this idea from the UK website. The rear mounts bolt through the > > upper longeron and an extra cross piece I glued in. The forward end is > > mounted to the through bolts for the cabanes. I turned down a piece of > > steel rod to fit inside the tube, welded it in place, then drilled and > > tapped it for the bolt.. It doesn't weigh much, and gets the shoulder > > harness up to shoulder level. I've seen the results of harness failures > > in a friend at our local airport, and it isn't pretty. Unfortunately, > > its impossible to test it, (I hope to never have to test it) but this > > seems to take advantage of the structure available for mounting. > > > > > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1576&PlaneI====================== > &g================= > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 > > * > > > * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.