---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/15/08: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood OK? (jimd) 2. 06:57 AM - Re: Dumb wing spar mistake? (MikeD) 3. 08:12 AM - Re: registration and paint cans (Rick Holland) 4. 03:24 PM - Re: registration and paint cans (gcardinal) 5. 04:46 PM - Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders (Andrea Vavassori) 6. 05:35 PM - tape edges (Douwe Blumberg) 7. 06:22 PM - Re: registration and paint cans (MikeD) 8. 07:59 PM - Dual Time (Peter W Johnson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood OK? From: "jimd" Regarding the alclad.. the inside surface is fine, it was the outside exposed surface that I scraped, then sanded and polished. My intention is to have a polished aluminum exterior surface, like that on Airstream campers and many Luscombes. If I were painting it or I endup covering it, I would etch and prime it. Had I known how much work it was going to be I would have etched and primed the small shiny spot from removing the tape, then covered over it. Seeing the mirror finish with the wood makes me want it to be finished that way, it really is nice. Wondered how to deal with fairings around it, so when I went to Stewart Systems fabric class I asked about it, and they suggested using thin sheet metal for fairings, (I was considering thick leather) and maintaining the wings color for the fairing strips. That way the polished metal section and the wood sections could attach to the wings cleanly and the gaps would be handled well, and it would be pretty easy to attach and remove the fairings. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176910#176910 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:40 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dumb wing spar mistake? From: "MikeD" owen5819(at)comcast.net wrote: > MikeD wrote: > > > To me, if the three holes are acceptable where they are supposed to be, they should be acceptable where they are accidentally - since nothing actually fills the holes to replace the tensile properties, although fasteners could be argued to at least provide some support under compression when called upon to do so. Once you add doublers no worries IMHO. > > I agree with your result, but the way you get there bothers me. For one > > > > thing, it's not just three holes now, but six. That means interrupting > twice as many of the load-carrying wood fibers and weakening the spar > (in tension) twice as much as the designer allowed for. The doublers > will take up the slack. After all, in an I-beam spar a single layer of > 1/8 ply provides most of the strength. But let's be clear about what is > going on here. One of us might have a project someday where it really > does make a difference. > > Owen I think you are reading too much into my reply. I didn't suggest that any spar through-hole mistakes are acceptable. They obviously are not. I inferred from the decription that since the holes were laid out for the same bracket, and the spar was rotated about the spanwise midpoint by 180 degrees, the holes would be in line. They certainly should be if the description is accurate. If the holes are in line axially then significantly few new fibres are cut, assuming you have a decent piece of spar stock with a majority of axial fibres to begin with. Therefore, in this circumstance, I offered my opinion - all anyone can do here - that the situation did not warrant major concern. If doubt remains then it should be replaced or further rework made. Mike D. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176941#176941 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:25 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: registration and paint cans Greg Have you ever heard of anyone successfully registering their Piet as a self launching glider? Rick On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:53 PM, gcardinal wrote: > *Hi Douwe,* > ** > *Only one name in the "Manufacturer" box. If you are building with one or > more people only one of you can be the manufacturer.* > ** > *Model and serial number is your choice.* > ** > *Do NOT attempt to register it as a "Glider, self-launching". It will add > about 6 months to your paperwork schedule........* > ** > *Greg Cardinal* > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Douwe Blumberg > *To:* pietenpolgroup > *Sent:* Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:37 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: registration and paint cans > > Hey, > > Please chime in re how to fill out my registration form so it doesn't get > sent back. Manufacturer and model? serial number? > > Also, they want proof of purchase, how do you tell them it's experimental, > is that the affidavit? > > Another subject, five gallon paint cans. Any great ideas for transfering > dope and thinners out of them?? they splash that expensive stuff everywhere. > > Douwe > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:12 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: registration and paint cans We tried, unsuccessfully. The FAR's state that the weight / wingspan requirements for certified self-launching gliders do not apply to experimental aircraft. We assumed that, because it was experimental, we were free to certify it however we wished. The inspector informed us that there is an FAA order that says experimental motorgliders do have to meet the same criteria as certified aircraft. So our attempt was unsuccessful. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:07 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: registration and paint cans Greg Have you ever heard of anyone successfully registering their Piet as a self launching glider? Rick On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:53 PM, gcardinal wrote: Hi Douwe, Only one name in the "Manufacturer" box. If you are building with one or more people only one of you can be the manufacturer. Model and serial number is your choice. Do NOT attempt to register it as a "Glider, self-launching". It will add about 6 months to your paperwork schedule........ Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration and paint cans Hey, Please chime in re how to fill out my registration form so it doesn't get sent back. Manufacturer and model? serial number? Also, they want proof of purchase, how do you tell them it's experimental, is that the affidavit? Another subject, five gallon paint cans. Any great ideas for transfering dope and thinners out of them?? they splash that expensive stuff everywhere. Douwe href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:01 PM PST US From: "Andrea Vavassori" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 23:34:46 -0500, Steve Ruse wrote: >I pulled the fuel tank out of the nose tonight, it literally took about twenty minutes to remove the cover and fuel tank. What a simple job! It is great to have something that is so easy to work on. Now I have some questions about repairs to the tank: Steve, I've checked very carefully both groups of photos. It seems, at least to me, that two things are worth noting: 1) The tank in itself seems good enough to do the job, and should be kept. 2) The installation of the finger strainer flange was really very poorly made but it can be re-done properly. The reasons why the flange was pulled out are many: 1) It was not bonded to the underlying lamination at all 2) The holes in the outer portion of the flange are too small and too many 3) It was only "bonded" with resin with no top laminations Now let's see how it can be fixed. First, you say elsewhere that safe-t-poxy was used for the lamination, so that is what you should use. You should also look for some 8-10 bidirectional glass cloth, twill weave, industrial grade (aviation grade is not really necessary) and cotton flocks ("flox"). The work should be done without interruptions i.e. you should always work with something "wet" under. 1) Remove all traces of the old bonding and roughen the surface of the tank around the bottom hole in a radius of 3" + flange radius using a 60-80 grit sandpaper. 2) Remove all glue traces from the flange and enlarge the bonding holes. Using a rattail file, file away material between two adiacent small holes and enlarge the resulting slot with a large round file until it becomes a large hole. Roughen both surfaces of the flange with 60-80 grit sandpaper and degrease it in lacquer thinner or MEK. 3) Prepare a small quantity of resin, then mix with flox until the resulting paste does not run off. Spread a 1/8" thickness over the area that should receive the flange. More if the area is not flat. 4) Press the flange into position. The flox paste must ooze out of ALL the holes and around the flange itself. DO NOT EVER lift the flange otherwise all the effort to make a leak-free joint will be wasted. 5) Very carefully level the oozed paste into the holes and around the flange, taking away any excess. 6) Prepare three discs of fiberglass cloth with a 3/4" center hole: one 2" larger than the flange, one 4" larger and one 6" larger. 7) Place the small disc over the flange and through its threaded boss, and laminate it down the usual way. Use an excess of resin, you want to be sure that no delaminations/trapped air exist. 8) Place the middle disc over the freshly done small disc, with the weave at 45 degrees with regard to the weave of the smaller disc, and again laminate it down the usual way. 9) Place the larger disc over the freshly done middle disc, with the weave at 45 degrees with regard to the weave of the middle disc, and again laminate it down the usual way. Done. You should now let the laminate cure fully and set completely, perhaps leaving it untouched for a week, then test it for leaks using real fuel (do NOT use water as it is more viscous, you can have no leaks with water but leaks with fuel, been there done that). This technique was taught to me many years ago by a professional worker in the aerospace industry, and I used it in all my flange-related fiberglass work. SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it ________________________________________________________________ Virus and Spam checked by NSS Srl - http://www.nssitaly.com Compliant to DL #196 30/06/2003 Definition count: 606102 Definition date: 2008/03/11 MDAV version: 2.2.9 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:47 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: tape edges I'm spraying my wings and tail parts and wanted to know what you guys did with the occassional pinked tape edget that just won't stay down. The Ceconite manual just says to work them down with the iron, which I've done, and do extra dope, which i've done and then to sand them. Does the sanding knock them back once they're really stiff with dope? Thanks, Douwe ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:13 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: registration and paint cans From: "MikeD" douweblumberg(at)earthlin wrote: > > Another subject, five gallon paint cans. Any great ideas for transfering dope and thinners out of them?? they splash that expensive stuff everywhere. > If they have the retactable spout and the lid is firmly attached, make sure when you pour that you orient the spout to the top of the lid, so that you have to get the can close to level to pour and you have better control. I've seen people try to pour with the can near full and the spout low, and it is not pretty. If it does not start to flow with the can horizontal and the spout at 12 o'clock, you can slowly roll the can so the spout reached the liquid level gradually and controllably. If no spout - a pair of clean plastic containers, polyethylene (PE) or polypropylene (PP) only, works well. So does unwaxed paper (like bathroom cups) but not for straight solvents as they soak through mighty quickly. Polystyrene (PS) will start dissolving and contaminate the material. Hold one in each hand and have the destination vessel close at hand. Dip one to partially fill, lift clear of the surface, then quickly stick the second container under the drip/stream, and move both of them together to the destination vessel, and pour while pulling the drip catcher away. When done pouring that dip, stick the drip catcher back underneath and back to the 5 gal container. When done, let the stuff on the transfer container walls drip back into the source container. I've transferred hundreds of pounds of epoxy, solvents, and other materials over the years this way in the lab, and it works great for me. Make sense, yea/nay? Mike D. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177103#177103 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:21 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dual Time Hi Guys, What a difference some duel time makes! I changed the wheels on my Piet to 6 x 8.00 aircraft wheels instead of the 24 inch wire ones. On Monday I had some dual time with an experienced tail wheel pilot/instructor. The difference is very noticeable. Going from =93this airplane is squirrelly=94 to =93very docile, nice flyer=94. The Corvair handled the passenger (first time with two people on board) with no problems. The temps are all very good now, even a bit cold. The oil pressure worries me a little because it is getting too high! On climb out (around 3000 rpm) on a cool morning I can see between 60 and 80 psi. I=92ll have to take it for a long fly and see what happens when the engine is really warm. I did some more circuit work this morning and found things a lot easier. I still have the adrenaline rush on a good landing but feel far more in control. I have just ordered a Zodiac 601 XL kit so no doubt that will have a Corvair on the front of it. Check out the web site for some new pictures. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com Checked by AVG. 15/04/2008 6:10 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.