---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/17/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:32 AM - Questions about nails and varnish () 2. 09:54 AM - Re: Questions about nails and varnish (TOM STINEMETZE) 3. 10:19 AM - Re: Questions about nails and varnish (Bill Church) 4. 11:19 AM - Re: Questions about nails and varnish (Brian Kraut) 5. 11:27 AM - Re: Questions about nails and varnish (Jack T. Textor) 6. 12:11 PM - Re: Questions about nails and varnish (Bill Church) 7. 12:32 PM - Re: Questions about nails and varnish (Phillips, Jack) 8. 02:00 PM - Re: Questions about nails and varnish (jimd) 9. 02:51 PM - Re: Questions about nails and varnish (Brian Kraut) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:39 AM PST US From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish I've finally begun construction of my Piet, starting out by building the tail section first. Just about done with the vertical fin, and will begin on the rudder in the next few days. My questions at the moment are: 1) are aircraft nails necessary for the assembly process, or can I skip the nails all together and just use an adequate number of clamps to hold things in place while the T-88 sets? 2) what specific brands and type of varnish is everybody using to seal and protect the wood, and how many coats of varnish are required? I'm not at the point where I'm ready to varnish anything yet, but I'd just like to know what's needed before I get to that stage. Billy McCaskill ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:19 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish Bill: Here is my 2 cents worth. > 1) are aircraft nails necessary for the assembly process, or can I skip the nails all together and just use an adequate number of clamps to hold things in place while the T-88 sets? Since the glue joint is the source of strength, not the nails, clamps work just fine. Make sure your joints are snug and clean (shop vac or air pressure). Also rough the mating surfaces a little with 60-80 grit so the T-88 has some "tooth" to grab on to. Don't clamp too tight or the joint will be glue starved. > 2) what specific brands and type of varnish is everybody using to seal and protect the wood, and how many coats of varnish are required? I am using Ace brand urathane spar varnish and have been told it will not lift if properly cured prior to covering. The first coat should be thinned 50 percent for good wood penetration. One more coat should do it for parts that will not see the light of day. Use at least two more coats for exposed surfaces. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:22 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish >From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:21 AM PST US From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish What is a good varnish to use if you are going to be covering very soon after? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:17 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish From: "Jack T. Textor" Bill, I've heard that Ace Spar Varnish is the "one" that works will all coverings. The only finish I could find it in is Gloss. Wish I could find it in Satin. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:17 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish >From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:14 PM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish Jack, Minwax sells a product called Helmsman Spar Urethane. It is available in Satin, Semi-gloss and Gloss finishes. I haven't used it on my Piet woodwork yet, as I am not at that stage yet, but last summer I did build a couple of deck chairs (made of cyprus) that sit outside all year, and they were finished with it. We just lost our snow in the last couple of weeks, and I got a chance to see how they weathered the winter, and they look fine. If you need a flying example of a Piet finished with Helmsman Spar Urethane by Minwax, look no further than ...... Mike Cuy (at least that's what he says he used in his rather well known video). And I think NX48MC's been flying for about 10 years now, so I think it'll do the job. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T. Textor Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish Bill, I've heard that Ace Spar Varnish is the "one" that works will all coverings. The only finish I could find it in is Gloss. Wish I could find it in Satin. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:23 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish From: "Phillips, Jack" Brian, the very best varnish available, IMHO, is PolyFiber's Epoxy Varnish. It is absolutely bulletproof and will not be lifted by their finishing materials. It ain't cheap, though at about $24 a quart ($60 for a quart kit, which yields 2.5 quarts of mixed varnish). Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish What is a good varnish to use if you are going to be covering very soon after? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:17 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Questions about nails and varnish From: "jimd" Think the T-88 people (system3) have a varnish called "clear coat" that is fairly inexpensive, compatible with T-88 and works with covering. There was quite a bit of discussion of it on the biplaneforum sight, and they have a construction manual with a chapter on their suggested stuff.. T-88/clear coat. Might be something to look at, its at many hobby stores. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177482#177482 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:33 PM PST US From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish Thanks. Any idea on how much would be needed to do a set of wings? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:30 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish Brian, the very best varnish available, IMHO, is PolyFiber's Epoxy Varnish. It is absolutely bulletproof and will not be lifted by their finishing materials. It ain't cheap, though at about $24 a quart ($60 for a quart kit, which yields 2.5 quarts of mixed varnish). Jack Phillips NX899JP ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:15 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish What is a good varnish to use if you are going to be covering very soon after? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:17 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://fo rums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.ma tronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. 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