Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:42 AM - Re: vertical fin offset (Phillips, Jack)
2. 07:34 AM - Re: vertical fin offset (Jack T. Textor)
3. 07:49 AM - Re: vertical fin offset (TOM STINEMETZE)
4. 09:13 AM - Re: vertical fin offset (Gene & Tammy)
5. 09:44 AM - Re: vertical fin offset (chase143)
6. 10:17 AM - Re: Hot rodding the Model A (pflyboy)
7. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: Hot rodding the Model A ()
8. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: vertical fin offset (Phillips, Jack)
9. 10:53 AM - Re: Hot rodding the Model A (pflyboy)
10. 11:03 AM - Source for stainless tubing (HelsperSew@aol.com)
11. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: Hot rodding the Model A ()
12. 11:35 AM - Re: turbo charge ()
13. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: Hot rodding the Model A (Patrick Panzera)
14. 12:04 PM - Re: vertical fin offset (chase143)
15. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: vertical fin offset (Phillips, Jack)
16. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: vertical fin offset ()
17. 07:54 PM - Re: Piet vs. F-16 (Mike Whaley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | vertical fin offset |
Gene, the angular difference a =BE" offset at the front fitting makes is pr
etty small. If you oversize the holes slightly in the rear fittings (go to
.201" on the holes for the AN3 bolts) you can easily shift the vertical fi
n 3/4 " at its leading edge.
However, given the fact that a Piet is basically unstable in yaw (or at bes
t, neutrally stable) and it won't fly "feet off" for more than a few second
s, having to hold a little rudder is not much of a problem. It's not like
you are building a long distance cruising machine that should fly hands off
perfectly trimmed, and be a nice stable instrument platform for shooting I
LS approaches. It's a Pietenpol!
BTW, my Pietenpol has recently been honored by being invited to be on displ
ay at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy museum at Dulles International Airport f
or their "Family Day" on June 14th. Weather permitting, I will fly it up t
here, penetrating the Washington ADIZ (I'll bet the Potomac TRACON is going
to love dealing with traffic with a 58 knot cruise speed) and have it on d
isplay at the museum all day Saturday. Check out: http://www.nasm.si.edu/
becomeapilot/index.cfm I hope some of you that live near northern Virginia
can come and talk Pietenpols with me.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
Now that I am clamping and drilling, I am finding that even if I make extra
holes for offsetting the fin, the rear fitting will not allow the fin to m
ove without really stressing the rear spar, so I am now thinking that I wil
l just make it straight and live with it.
Gene
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| Subject: | vertical fin offset |
Congratulations Jack! That's a great museum, hope you don't require an
F-16 escort!
Jack
www.textors.com
do not archive
Gene, the angular difference a =BE" offset at the front fitting makes is
pretty small. If you oversize the holes slightly in the rear fittings
(go to .201" on the holes for the AN3 bolts) you can easily shift the
vertical fin 3/4 " at its leading edge.
However, given the fact that a Piet is basically unstable in yaw (or at
best, neutrally stable) and it won't fly "feet off" for more than a few
seconds, having to hold a little rudder is not much of a problem. It's
not like you are building a long distance cruising machine that should
fly hands off perfectly trimmed, and be a nice stable instrument
platform for shooting ILS approaches. It's a Pietenpol!
BTW, my Pietenpol has recently been honored by being invited to be on
display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy museum at Dulles International
Airport for their "Family Day" on June 14th. Weather permitting, I will
fly it up there, penetrating the Washington ADIZ (I'll bet the Potomac
TRACON is going to love dealing with traffic with a 58 knot cruise
speed) and have it on display at the museum all day Saturday. Check
out: http://www.nasm.si.edu/becomeapilot/index.cfm I hope some of you
that live near northern Virginia can come and talk Pietenpols with me.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
Now that I am clamping and drilling, I am finding that even if I make
extra holes for offsetting the fin, the rear fitting will not allow the
fin to move without really stressing the rear spar, so I am now thinking
that I will just make it straight and live with it.
Gene
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you
is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- Norsk - Portuguese
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| Subject: | vertical fin offset |
Now THERE's a visual image for you... An F-16 with gear down, flaps
fully extended, drag 'chute deployed, wobbling on the verge of a stall,
and STILL pulling away.
Tom Stinemetze
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
>>> jtextor@thepalmergroup.com 4/30/2008 9:28 AM >>>
Congratulations Jack! Thats a great museum, hope you dont require an
F-16 escort!Jackwww.textors.comdo not archive
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
X-GWTYPE:USER
FN:STINEMETZE, TOM
TEL;WORK:620-245-2548
ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING
EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS@MCPCITY.COM
N:STINEMETZE;TOM
TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN.
END:VCARD
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| Subject: | Re: vertical fin offset |
Jack, Congrats!! What an honor!
Gene in Tennessee
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| Subject: | Re: vertical fin offset |
Jack,
Congrates! That is a great open house, and now a great excuse for getting out of
yard work! I look forward to seeing you there!
Steve
P.S. Tom - No drag chutes on F-16s! ;-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180290#180290
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| Subject: | Re: Hot rodding the Model A |
Do you think that could work? I imagine the RPMs would be rather low (of course
I don't know much about superchargers or turbos in general, either). Worth
some more research nonetheless. Thanks for that link!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180298#180298
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| Subject: | Re: Hot rodding the Model A |
They bump the rpms up quite considerably but they have a nasty habit of
reducing the life of the engine as you might have guessed.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pflyboy
Sent: April 30, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
Do you think that could work? I imagine the RPMs would be rather low
(of course I don't know much about superchargers or turbos in general,
either). Worth some more research nonetheless. Thanks for that link!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180298#180298
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: vertical fin offset |
Actually there is one version of the F-16 with drag chutes. When I was
working at General Dynamics on the F-16 program we developed a special
version for the Norwegians that had a drag chute built into the base of
the vertical tail so the Norwegians could land on icy runways.
But it couldn't fly with the chute deployed so it still couldn't
slow-fly with a Pietenpol...
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: vertical fin offset
Jack,
Congrates! That is a great open house, and now a great excuse for
getting out of yard work! I look forward to seeing you there!
Steve
P.S. Tom - No drag chutes on F-16s! ;-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180290#180290
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| Subject: | Re: Hot rodding the Model A |
About the engine life, I could only image. However I was referring to the RPM
of the little "turbine" in the turbo. I should have been more specific. While
we are at it, what is the average life for the Model A?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180310#180310
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| Subject: | Source for stainless tubing |
Hi Guys,
I just got an unsolicited catalog in the mail. Man I wish I had gotten this
awhile back. Would have saved me mucho time and money/research.
_www.jmesanitary.com_ (http://www.jmesanitary.com) . They have all kinds of stainless tube
fittings suitable for intake/exhaust pipes and also could be used for
radiator tubes.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Hot rodding the Model A |
Isn't it the little turbine that's putting out the huge rpms that boost
the engine?They feed back the used exhaust and they use it to drive that
little bugger which in turn gives extra drive to the main engine.My
understanding of a turbine and a super charger are two different things
though.A turbine once started operates at a constant speed and you just
feed off it what ever you need where as a supercharger is only used for
short periods like for take offs or drag racing.A super charger is a
feed back system sort of like an after burner on a jet.
In the old days they used to use leather in the Model A; today it's
anybodies guess.Just the fact they are still around is a good sign.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pflyboy
Sent: April 30, 2008 1:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
About the engine life, I could only image. However I was referring to
the RPM of the little "turbine" in the turbo. I should have been more
specific. While we are at it, what is the average life for the Model A?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180310#180310
Message 12
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| Subject: | tenpol-List:turbo charge |
In internal combustion engines
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engines> a
turbocharger is a turbine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbine> driven
forced induction <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_induction>
compressor <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressor> powered by
pressure from the engine's exhaust gas. This is in contrast to a
supercharger <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger> , which is
mechanically driven by the engine's crankshaft via a belt.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Hot rodding the Model A |
> Isn't it the little turbine that's putting out the huge rpms that boost
> the engine?They feed back the used exhaust and they use it to drive that
> little bugger which in turn gives extra drive to the main engine.My
> understanding of a turbine and a super charger are two different things
> though.A turbine once started operates at a constant speed
The speed of a turbocharger changes with engine RPM, although not directly
coupled. It's like a water wheel on an old mill, driven by the flow of the
river, except it uses exhaust gases instead of water. The "water wheel" then
turns an impeller, via a shared shaft, which forces air into the induction
system. The harder the combustion gases push the "water wheel", the faster
the impeller spins, and the faster it spins, the more air is forced into the
combustion chamber.
Shaft speed is ultimately limited by a waste gate which is essentially a
hole that opens to bypass some of the exhaust gasses, reducing the forces on
the "water wheel".
> where as a supercharger is only used for
> short periods like for take offs or drag racing.A super charger is a
> feed back system sort of like an after burner on a jet.
A supercharger works much in the same way except that the impeller isn't
turned by exhaust gases, it's belt-driven off the crankshaft.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/supercharger-6a.jpg
The two most common superchargers are centrifugal, like with the
turbocharger or screw driven.
http://images.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/engines_drivetrain/induction_power
adders/0610ch_09_z+superchargers+kenne_bell_supercharger.jpg
Although superchargers are mostly recognized on dragsters and funny cars,
they see daily duty in diesel trucks and many "modern" automobiles such as
some mid 80's Ford Thunderbirds and late 90's (early 2000's) Pontiac Grand
Prix, not to mention the Mercedes Benz C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan.
Supercharging and turbocharging were most likely developed and certainly
refined (perfected) during WWII for high-altitude flying.
Many "modern" piston powered aircraft use turbocharging, especially those
that have pressurized cabins.
John Steere has a supercharged Thunderbird Powered BD-4. We wrote about it
several years ago in CONTACT! Magazine.
I hope this helps.
Pat
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: vertical fin offset |
Jack,
Excellent point! I think several FMS recipients (mostly European) adopted chutes.
Yes, I don't think anything will want to get that Low and Slow to escort you.
Are you bringing your Piet to the Air Show/Open House at Andrews in May?
Steve C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180336#180336
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: vertical fin offset |
No, but I'm planning on bringing it to the Mid Atlantic Fly-in and Sport
Aviation Convention (MAFSAC) at Lumberton NC next month.
http://www.mafsac.com/
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
"Icarus Plummet"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: vertical fin offset
Jack,
Excellent point! I think several FMS recipients (mostly European)
adopted chutes. Yes, I don't think anything will want to get that Low
and Slow to escort you. Are you bringing your Piet to the Air Show/Open
House at Andrews in May?
Steve C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180336#180336
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: vertical fin offset |
And don't forget that awful cluge of a spin chute we rigged on the AFTI F-16 in
1982.
However, being unarmed and decommissioned, the AFTI isn't likely to be launched
by Homeland Security.
Mike Hardaway
---- "Phillips wrote:
>
> Actually there is one version of the F-16 with drag chutes. When I was
> working at General Dynamics on the F-16 program we developed a special
> version for the Norwegians that had a drag chute built into the base of
> the vertical tail so the Norwegians could land on icy runways.
>
> But it couldn't fly with the chute deployed so it still couldn't
> slow-fly with a Pietenpol...
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:42 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: vertical fin offset
>
>
> Jack,
> Congrates! That is a great open house, and now a great excuse for
> getting out of yard work! I look forward to seeing you there!
> Steve
>
> P.S. Tom - No drag chutes on F-16s! ;-)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180290#180290
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | RE: Piet vs. F-16 |
> Now THERE's a visual image for you... An F-16 with gear down, flaps
> fully extended, drag 'chute deployed, wobbling on the verge of a stall,
> and STILL pulling away.
Yup, that's exactly what would happen. In 2004, I saw an Aeronca fly over
and then circle directly over a presidential campaign event in Florida last
election while President Bush was speaking. I can personally testify that an
F-16 is no match for a slow GA aircraft, at least speed-wise... the Viper
was in no way able to slow down enough to "shadow" the idiot in the Champ,
though he sure tried... all he could do was circle around him in full
afterburner, trying to slow-fly.
The guy eventually landed at a nearby airport (to a nice reception by some
guys in dark glasses) but not after A) busting a 30-mile TFR, B) flying
directly into the center of the TFR, C) repeatedly ignoring (or failing to
grasp) that an F-16 popping flares a couple of hundred feet in front of you
probably is a sign that you should do something other than continue on your
course, and D) after all that, CIRCLING the stadium that was the subject of
said TFR while the prez was talking at about 700 feet AGL! Headline news...
"small yellow plane disrupts election rally"... Never did hear what they did
to the pilot (who flew in from up north someplace) but I bet it wasn't
pretty!
Now, you get an F-22 after a Piet... my bet is the Piet's gonna fall out of
the air long before the Raptor!
Congrats, Jack... quite an honor... and good luck with the ADIZ friendly
fire! :)
-Mike
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
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