Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:50 AM - Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
2. 05:51 AM - Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era (Glenn Thomas)
3. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood? (Bill Church)
4. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era (Bill Church)
5. 10:28 AM - Tomorrow at French Valley (Patrick Panzera)
6. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era (Jim Markle)
7. 11:06 AM - Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood? (Rick Holland)
8. 11:49 AM - Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era (Rick Holland)
9. 03:28 PM - Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood? (jimd)
10. 05:49 PM - Re: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era (Mike Townsley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era |
Glenn,
Your questions are good ones and Don Emch's synopsis of Grant's
story is accurate and clear. Grant spent countless
hours of his own private life every year for TEN years answering
e-mails, letters, phone calls and in-person inquiries to all things
relating to the Pietenpol movement and barely broke even for his
expenses, printings, mailings, and other efforts for what, a measly
$10 per year for four quarterly issues ? Forgive me if it might have
been $15 but some in the Pietenpol movement chose to
complain about an issue or two not being delivered when you can't much
less buy a large pizza anymore for the price of what a
yearly subscription cost. In addition to producing the Pietenpol
newsletter Grant created a web site with reams and reams of
information that still is available for all of us to view for free.
http://users.aol.com/bpanews/www.html
I can understand if one paid for a subscription and then one quarter
later they ceased coming but in the big scheme of things
for say how much a brass turnbuckle costs or an AN shackle, I viewed the
complaining and grumbling typical of cheap, ungrateful,
homebuilder types who won't ever remember you for 10 years of fantastic
volunteer service but they'll hang you out to dry because
they were out of pocket ten or fifteen dollars. How petty is that ?
Speaking of ungrateful, thankless BPAN members
(not that any of them exists anymore:), we need to (myself included)
write a note of thanks or an e-mail or shake Doc Mosher's
hand for picking up the torch where Grant laid it down with regard to
the good newsletter that Doc and Dee produce. Not only is Doc
doing us a favor but to those who might not be computer-minded and rely
on getting that paper newsletter a few times a year to keep
in touch with a passion that we all share.
Mike C.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era |
Didn't know the details, but after hearing one person's version of the story it
was quite different than what I'm hearing now. When I go to Google for Pietenpol
information, something with Grant's name on it invariably comes up and is
invariably worth reading. I guess he actually IS one of the good ones.
After hearing the rumor about him taking 2 years of prepaid newsletter money and
bailing out, keeping the money and then all the quibbling about copyright regarding
making past newsletters available on a website just left me wondering.
But I am getting a strong sense that the story surrounding his departure is
greatly exagerated. I figured the good people in Pietenpol land who have more
longevity than I in the Pietenpol community would be able to give me a better
sense of his friend or foe status and dispel any rumors.
Hope this is over with now. Wasn't thinking that this could get ugly (and I hope
it doesn't)
Thanks
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183420#183420
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood? |
Just wondering, Jim, what's the big deal about sealing the underside of the
ply after it's glued in place? You should have plenty of access from the
underside of the wing, since the skin only goes on the top side of the
leading edge. Seems a lot easier to work with unfinished plywood, than it
would be to work with varnished ply, especially when it needs to be curved.
Bill C.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era |
A few years ago, as the result of a heated discussion here on the list,
regarding copying the old BPAN newsletters, Grant's name got knocked around
a bit. Apparently there were a few people out there that couldn't forget
about a ten-dollar loss from ten years ago. Personally, I've got more
serious things to worry about than something as small as that. Anyway, at
that time I ended up communicating directly with Grant, and I concluded that
he was not being unreasonable. He simply was exercising his rights, as
publisher of the newsletter. Legally, the old newsletters (and his video, I
assume) are his, and only he can decide who may copy any of them, in part,
or in whole. At that time, I did make a suggestion to Grant that I believed
there would be a fair bit of interest, amongst the newer builders who missed
out on the original newsletters, if he were to consider republishing the
back-issues, or even better, compiling them on to a CD, and offering them
for sale. I didn't hear any more about it, so I assume that he wasn't/isn't
interested in the idea. Fair enough. We all move forward in life, and leave
some things in the past. Luckily, Grant has maintained his BPA website,
which is a wealth of information, and was initially my primary source of
information about this great old plane. I still refer to it regularly.
So, if you're out there reading this, Grant, thank you.
(and have you thought any more about that CD idea?)
Bill C.
P.S.
Two-and-a-half years ago there was a notice that the International Pietenpol
Association newsletter was going to be revived, after a period of dormancy.
I signed up, and sent my money. I haven't seen a newsletter yet, but they
said my dues would get me 48 pages of newsletters (in two or three issues) -
without promising a schedule for publication. I'm going to assume that they
will eventually put together some newsletters, and send me a copy when they
do. But if they don't. oh well, it was only fifteen bucks. I look at it like
paying to see a movie that turns out to be a stinker. No big loss.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Tomorrow at French Valley |
Join me and a bunch of other Vairheads from Chapter 1279 and Chapter 1
tomorrow (Saturday, May 17th) at 8am at French Valley airport, Temecula CA.
Huge Corvair confab, engine build, maybe even an engine run.
http://www.eaa1279.org/
8am Engine build for Chapter 1279's Pietenpol project
http://www.eaa1279.org/Pietenpol.htm
And 11am for the BBQ.
Pat
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era |
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren
EraTOTALLY agree with everything... I just wish I could have said it as
clearly and eloquently as YOU said it Bill!
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the
MacLaren Era
A few years ago, as the result of a heated discussion here on the
list, regarding copying the old BPAN newsletters, Grant's name got
knocked around a bit. Apparently there were a few people out there that
couldn't forget about a ten-dollar loss from ten years ago. Personally,
I've got more serious things to worry about than something as small as
that. Anyway, at that time I ended up communicating directly with Grant,
and I concluded that he was not being unreasonable. He simply was
exercising his rights, as publisher of the newsletter. Legally, the old
newsletters (and his video, I assume) are his, and only he can decide
who may copy any of them, in part, or in whole. At that time, I did make
a suggestion to Grant that I believed there would be a fair bit of
interest, amongst the newer builders who missed out on the original
newsletters, if he were to consider republishing the back-issues, or
even better, compiling them on to a CD, and offering them for sale. I
didn't hear any more about it, so I assume that he wasn't/isn't
interested in the idea. Fair enough. We all move forward in life, and
leave some things in the past. Luckily, Grant has maintained his BPA
website, which is a wealth of information, and was initially my primary
source of information about this great old plane. I still refer to it
regularly.
So, if you're out there reading this, Grant, thank you.
(and have you thought any more about that CD idea?)
Bill C.
P.S.
Two-and-a-half years ago there was a notice that the International
Pietenpol Association newsletter was going to be revived, after a period
of dormancy. I signed up, and sent my money. I haven't seen a newsletter
yet, but they said my dues would get me 48 pages of newsletters (in two
or three issues) - without promising a schedule for publication. I'm
going to assume that they will eventually put together some newsletters,
and send me a copy when they do. But if they don't. oh well, it was only
fifteen bucks. I look at it like paying to see a movie that turns out to
be a stinker. No big loss.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood? |
I did the same.
Rick
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Dick Navratil <horzpool@goldengate.net>
wrote:
> In this case I agree. I just butt jointed the plywood on the rib.
> Dick N.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Schreiber <lmforge@earthlink.net>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:14 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
>
> Thats exactly what I did. Scarfing isn't necessary for the leading edge
> plywood. Since Bernard originally used cardboard from quaker oats oatmeal
> tubing, scarfing would have been a little difficult.
>
> Getting ready to go out this morning and help a friend cover his Piet.
>
> Rick Schreiber.
> Valparaiso, IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* <HelsperSew@aol.com>
> *To: *pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* 5/15/2008 5:08:22 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
>
> Guys,
>
> I did not scarf any plywood. When I nailed/glued the 1/16 ply to the wing,
> I only lapped one half of the rib width. Then the next piece lapped the
> other half of the rib width. Worked like a charm. Just like when you put up
> a piece of drywall on a stud wall, bearing only half of the 2 x 4.
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at
> AOL Food <http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001>.
>
> **
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era |
Well put Mike, totally agree.
Rick
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 5:47 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] <
michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Glenn,
>
> Your questions are good ones and Don Emch's synopsis of Grant's story
> is accurate and clear. Grant spent countless
> hours of his own private life every year for TEN years answering e-mails,
> letters, phone calls and in-person inquiries to all things
> relating to the Pietenpol movement and barely broke even for his expenses,
> printings, mailings, and other efforts for what, a measly
> $10 per year for four quarterly issues ? Forgive me if it might have
> been $15 but some in the Pietenpol movement chose to
> complain about an issue or two not being delivered when you can't much
> less buy a large pizza anymore for the price of what a
> yearly subscription cost. In addition to producing the Pietenpol
> newsletter Grant created a web site with reams and reams of
> information that still is available for all of us to view for free.
> http://users.aol.com/bpanews/www.html
> I can understand if one paid for a subscription and then one quarter later
> they ceased coming but in the big scheme of things
> for say how much a brass turnbuckle costs or an AN shackle, I viewed the
> complaining and grumbling typical of cheap, ungrateful,
> homebuilder types who won't ever remember you for 10 years of fantastic volunteer
> service but they'll hang you out to dry because
> they were out of pocket ten or fifteen dollars. How petty is that ?
> Speaking of ungrateful, thankless BPAN members
> (not that any of them exists anymore:), we need to (myself included) write
> a note of thanks or an e-mail or shake Doc Mosher's
> hand for picking up the torch where Grant laid it down with regard to the
> good newsletter that Doc and Dee produce. Not only is Doc
> doing us a favor but to those who might not be computer-minded and rely on
> getting that paper newsletter a few times a year to keep
> in touch with a passion that we all share.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood? |
I wouldn't make a big deal of it except I am trying to walk thru how to do the
leading edge.
This is for a lower wing.. so its different. You can see the plane at www.westcoastpiet.com under photos, under Jim D.
The lower wing ribs are squared off. The Pietenpol Aerial plans (Chad Wille's design)
shows a shaped piece of wood that is bolted to each of the ribs to form
a backing for the wing wrap, and the plans say to use wood for it instead of
aluminum.. but that is it, nothing explicit about how far to wrap it. I presumed
that with the weight of the wrap being so low, it would be best to make a "D"
section out of it, which would make getting to the back side of it once it
was glued in place about impossible.
With the shaped leading edge support piece in place, even if I didn't wrap it all
the way back to the spar it would still be tight to try to seal it, I would
think.
This is my first plane.. bound to ask some dumb questions.
Seemed like having the spar top and bottom to glue to would make it easier to install
the wrap, and would make it easy to finish, just run a flush router bit
along the spar.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183482#183482
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era |
Mike C, well said, I agree whole heartedly. It is usually a hand full
of complainers who end good things in lots of organizations, (like the
church too) who are in the same way as you describe.
Pastor Mike in Iowa
Jim Markle wrote:
> TOTALLY agree with everything... I just wish I could have said it as
> clearly and eloquently as YOU said it Bill!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Bill Church <mailto:eng@canadianrogers.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 16, 2008 10:11 AM
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the
> MacLaren Era
>
> A few years ago, as the result of a heated discussion here on the
> list, regarding copying the old BPAN newsletters, Grant's name got
> knocked around a bit. Apparently there were a few people out there
> that couldn't forget about a ten-dollar loss from ten years ago.
> Personally, I've got more serious things to worry about than
> something as small as that. Anyway, at that time I ended up
> communicating directly with Grant, and I concluded that he was not
> being unreasonable. He simply was exercising his rights, as
> publisher of the newsletter. Legally, the old newsletters (and his
> video, I assume) are his, and only he can decide who may copy any
> of them, in part, or in whole. At that time, I did make a
> suggestion to Grant that I believed there would be a fair bit of
> interest, amongst the newer builders who missed out on the
> original newsletters, if he were to consider republishing the
> back-issues, or even better, compiling them on to a CD, and
> offering them for sale. I didn't hear any more about it, so I
> assume that he wasn't/isn't interested in the idea. Fair enough.
> We all move forward in life, and leave some things in the past.
> Luckily, Grant has maintained his BPA website, which is a wealth
> of information, and was initially my primary source of information
> about this great old plane. I still refer to it regularly.
>
> So, if you're out there reading this, Grant, thank you.
> (and have you thought any more about that CD idea?)
>
> Bill C.
>
> P.S.
> Two-and-a-half years ago there was a notice that the International
> Pietenpol Association newsletter was going to be revived, after a
> period of dormancy. I signed up, and sent my money. I haven't seen
> a newsletter yet, but they said my dues would get me 48 pages of
> newsletters (in two or three issues) - without promising a
> schedule for publication. I'm going to assume that they will
> eventually put together some newsletters, and send me a copy when
> they do. But if they don't... oh well, it was only fifteen bucks.
> I look at it like paying to see a movie that turns out to be a
> stinker. No big loss.
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
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