Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:50 PM - Wheel Strut Brackets (Lars Hulgreen)
2. 04:03 PM - Re: Wheel Strut Brackets (Gene Rambo)
3. 04:17 PM - help, please! (Gene Rambo)
4. 04:38 PM - Re: help, please! (helspersew@aol.com)
5. 06:42 PM - help, please! (Oscar Zuniga)
6. 06:54 PM - Re: help, please! (walt evans)
7. 07:43 PM - authorized??? (Roman Bukolt)
8. 08:02 PM - help, please! (Oscar Zuniga)
9. 08:19 PM - Finally! (MikeD)
10. 08:39 PM - Re: Wheel Strut Brackets (Dick Navratil)
11. 10:34 PM - Re: Wheel Strut Brackets ()
Message 1
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Subject: | Wheel Strut Brackets |
Need some advise, I am contemplating making my wheel struts out of wood, and
for that purpose I have designed a bracket from three pieces of metal that
will be welded together. I am a little uncertain of the angel between the
bottom of the fuselage and the strut .. If anybody could help I sure would
appreciate it.
Dane
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Wheel Strut Brackets |
it has been done, but a little different configuration, by Frank
Pavliga. You might want to look at ones built to his plans, there are a
lot of them out there.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lars Hulgreen<mailto:dane@scsl.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Strut Brackets
Need some advise, I am contemplating making my wheel struts out of
wood, and for that purpose I have designed a bracket from three pieces
of metal that will be welded together. I am a little uncertain of the
angel between the bottom of the fuselage and the strut .. If anybody
could help I sure would appreciate it.
Dane
Message 3
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I am reaching the point where I am starting assembly and need some
specific information that I have seen on here before but cannot find
now:
1. I have seen the dimensions to change the elevator bellcrank so that
the cables (1 do not touch the leading edge of the stab) and (2 do not
get tight/slack during movement through their range). The first
requires raising the bellcrank, the second is a difference in the
distance between the holes for the cables;
2. what is the source for the tailskid spring that most closely matches
the one in the plans;
Can someone help me with these??
Gene
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: help, please! |
Gene,
I understand your inquiry and the reason for it. Just keep in mind that if your
upper elevator cable does not rub on the horizontal stabilizer, you are not officially
authorized to call your airplane " Pietenpol"................... Sorry.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 6:14 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: help, please!
I am reaching the point where I am starting assembly and need some specific
information that I have seen on here before but cannot find now:
?
1.? I have seen the dimensions to change the elevator bellcrank so
that the cables (1 do not touch the leading edge of the stab) and (2 do not get
tight/slack during movement through their range).? The first requires
raising the bellcrank, the second is a difference in the distance between the
holes for the cables;
?
2.? what is the source for the tailskid spring that most closely
matches the one in the plans;
?
Can someone help me with these??
?
Gene
Message 5
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Gene;
If you look at the Piet drawings that show the bellcrank and the elevator horn,
you'll find that the distance from center to center of the actuator holes on
the bellcrank is 7-3/4" (3-7/8" each way from the pivot center). The distance
from center to center of the holes on the horn is 7-1/4". Thus there is a difference
between the bellcrank and the horn, and what that does is change the
actuation ratio. For a certain displacement of the bellcrank (and stick), a somewhat
larger displacement of the elevator occurs. This is fine. What we have
is a classic "four-bar linkage" and it all works when things are square.
The problem comes when we change the relationship between the pivot centers of
the bellcrank and the horn but still try to maintain the axis centers vertical
(keep the bellcrank straight up and down with the elevators neutral). With only
a slight displacement, it isn't bad but in the Piet it's enough to throw the
geometry off and create slack in the cables when the stick is displaced.
To remove all the error, you mount the bellcrank pivot center in a direct line
with the elevator pivot center when both the bellcrank and the horn are exactly
vertical. I think this is what John Dilatush did on "Mountain Piet", and others
have done the same, but the problem then becomes that you absolutely, positively
must have pulleys under the pilot's seat to displace the control cables
up to the bellcrank... a rubbing block or fairlead guide just won't cut it with
that much change in direction of the cables as they head up to the bellcrank.
Get some popsicle sticks, thumbtacks, and string and make a model. You'll see
what I mean.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: help, please! |
Gene,
I think that it is accepted that that's the way it will be,
My cables rub, but when you add the piece of leather, they rub on that.
And I don't think that you can perfectly correct the geometry on the
cable taughtness.
Believe me, Bernard knew what he was doing,,,I've been flying mine for 6
years,,and in no way do you feel a problem with the cables or controls.
It's a blast to fly.
Build to the plans.
Build to the plans.
Build to the plans.
Build to the plans.
Build to the plans.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"Let's Legalize Freedom"
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: help, please!
I am reaching the point where I am starting assembly and need some
specific information that I have seen on here before but cannot find
now:
1. I have seen the dimensions to change the elevator bellcrank so
that the cables (1 do not touch the leading edge of the stab) and (2 do
not get tight/slack during movement through their range). The first
requires raising the bellcrank, the second is a difference in the
distance between the holes for the cables;
2. what is the source for the tailskid spring that most closely
matches the one in the plans;
Can someone help me with these??
Gene
Message 7
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I authorize to call this plane a PietenpolOn Jun 14, 2008, at 6:35 PM, HelsperSew@aol.com
wrote:
> Gene,
>
> I understand your inquiry and the reason for it. Just keep in mind
> that if your upper elevator cable does not rub on the horizontal
> stabilizer, you are not officially authorized to call your airplane
> " Pietenpol"................... Sorry.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 6:14 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: help, please!
>
> I am reaching the point where I am starting assembly and need some
> specific information that I have seen on here before but cannot find
> now:
>
> 1. I have seen the dimensions to change the elevator bellcrank so
> that the cables (1 do not touch the leading edge of the stab) and (2
> do not get tight/slack during movement through their range). The
> first requires raising the bellcrank, the second is a difference in
> the distance between the holes for the cables;
>
> 2. what is the source for the tailskid spring that most closely
> matches the one in the plans;
>
> Can someone help me with these??
>
> Gene
>
>
> Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more!
>
>
Message 8
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Walt; you got it exactly right! Once my Piet leaves the ground, the controls are
a light and harmonious unit and all the slop, drag, and clunk are absolutely
gone... it's light to the touch, responsive, and I'm connected to the airplane
completely. Forget degrees of roll rate per second, phugoid oscillation, and
stability... just start the engine and fly the airplane and you'll be perfectly
happy with Bernard's creation. I know I am!
I just had to get past my A&P's hesitation at the annual inspection when he showed
alarm at the slack elevator cables. "All Pietenpols are like this" sort of
settled him down ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 9
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This is the sort of thing you think one would do before you actually buy a project
like we just did, but I and my co-owner buddy finally got to fly in a Piet
for the first time. Today was the Piet gathering in Brussels Ontario, and Brian
Kenney took us each up for short flights.
It was quite a relief to find out we both thoroughly enjoyed it, and the airplane
is pretty much what we expected it to be, which is a good thing. Boy, these
Piets sure have rudder authority don't they? It was pretty bumpy today, but the
Piet was a pleasure to fly.
So now we are truly fired up and itching to get ours finished!
Also got to see a Swift fly, an aircraft I ogled and lusted after when they were
first mentioned quite some years ago. 26:1 L/D for a foot launched glider ain't
too shabby.. Boy it looks unique in the air! And seems to glide forever.
Mike D.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187937#187937
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/swiftandwaves_136.jpg
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Wheel Strut Brackets |
Dane
The problem with your question is that the angle will change depending
what configuration of wheels you use. If you are going to use 21"
motorcycle wheels I will go out and measure tomorrow. If you are using
a 6.00-6 it will be different and my numbers wont help.
It looks to me just looking at your drawings, your brackets might be too
narrow. Which drawings are you basing these on? The drawings in the
Flying Glider manuals indicate
1 3/4" between mounting holes. That will interfere with the ash beam
that is on the fuse floor.
Also, The tangs that attach to the lift struts should carry thru being
one solid piece. You wouldnt want a weld to break there.
Beautiful CAD drawings.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lars Hulgreen
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 5:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Strut Brackets
Need some advise, I am contemplating making my wheel struts out of
wood, and for that purpose I have designed a bracket from three pieces
of metal that will be welded together. I am a little uncertain of the
angel between the bottom of the fuselage and the strut .. If anybody
could help I sure would appreciate it.
Dane
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Wheel Strut Brackets |
Dane
This drawing is close to the way I built my fittings.They are slightly
modified brackets based on the wood landing gear plans. I change one
thing from the drawing, the lift strut strap that touches the bottom of
the fuselage went strait and was welded to a cross brace connected to
the other side. The bottom strap was then used for the cross cable
brace. These pictures might help explain it better.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/IMG_2448.JPG and
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/IMG_2977.JPG . Although I
was a bit intimidated by them, they were not hard to fabricate.
As for the angles to make all the bends, I drew a front view of the
fuselage to scale and placed the axel where I wanted it below the
fuselage and simply drew in the wood legs. I then measured the angles
on the drawing. I used CAD but it also worked fine on paper.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Lars Hulgreen
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Strut Brackets
Need some advise, I am contemplating making my wheel struts out of
wood, and for that purpose I have designed a bracket from three pieces
of metal that will be welded together. I am a little uncertain of the
angel between the bottom of the fuselage and the strut .. If anybody
could help I sure would appreciate it.
Dane
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