---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/14/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:50 PM - Wheel Strut Brackets (Lars Hulgreen) 2. 04:03 PM - Re: Wheel Strut Brackets (Gene Rambo) 3. 04:17 PM - help, please! (Gene Rambo) 4. 04:38 PM - Re: help, please! (helspersew@aol.com) 5. 06:42 PM - help, please! (Oscar Zuniga) 6. 06:54 PM - Re: help, please! (walt evans) 7. 07:43 PM - authorized??? (Roman Bukolt) 8. 08:02 PM - help, please! (Oscar Zuniga) 9. 08:19 PM - Finally! (MikeD) 10. 08:39 PM - Re: Wheel Strut Brackets (Dick Navratil) 11. 10:34 PM - Re: Wheel Strut Brackets () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:10 PM PST US From: "Lars Hulgreen" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Strut Brackets Need some advise, I am contemplating making my wheel struts out of wood, and for that purpose I have designed a bracket from three pieces of metal that will be welded together. I am a little uncertain of the angel between the bottom of the fuselage and the strut .. If anybody could help I sure would appreciate it. Dane ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:34 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Strut Brackets it has been done, but a little different configuration, by Frank Pavliga. You might want to look at ones built to his plans, there are a lot of them out there. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lars Hulgreen To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Strut Brackets Need some advise, I am contemplating making my wheel struts out of wood, and for that purpose I have designed a bracket from three pieces of metal that will be welded together. I am a little uncertain of the angel between the bottom of the fuselage and the strut .. If anybody could help I sure would appreciate it. Dane ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:11 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Pietenpol-List: help, please! I am reaching the point where I am starting assembly and need some specific information that I have seen on here before but cannot find now: 1. I have seen the dimensions to change the elevator bellcrank so that the cables (1 do not touch the leading edge of the stab) and (2 do not get tight/slack during movement through their range). The first requires raising the bellcrank, the second is a difference in the distance between the holes for the cables; 2. what is the source for the tailskid spring that most closely matches the one in the plans; Can someone help me with these?? Gene ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: help, please! From: helspersew@aol.com Gene, I understand your inquiry and the reason for it. Just keep in mind that if your upper elevator cable does not rub on the horizontal stabilizer, you are not officially authorized to call your airplane " Pietenpol"................... Sorry. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Gene Rambo Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 6:14 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: help, please! I am reaching the point where I am starting assembly and need some specific information that I have seen on here before but cannot find now: ? 1.? I have seen the dimensions to change the elevator bellcrank so that the cables (1 do not touch the leading edge of the stab) and (2 do not get tight/slack during movement through their range).? The first requires raising the bellcrank, the second is a difference in the distance between the holes for the cables; ? 2.? what is the source for the tailskid spring that most closely matches the one in the plans; ? Can someone help me with these?? ? Gene ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:14 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: help, please! Gene; If you look at the Piet drawings that show the bellcrank and the elevator horn, you'll find that the distance from center to center of the actuator holes on the bellcrank is 7-3/4" (3-7/8" each way from the pivot center). The distance from center to center of the holes on the horn is 7-1/4". Thus there is a difference between the bellcrank and the horn, and what that does is change the actuation ratio. For a certain displacement of the bellcrank (and stick), a somewhat larger displacement of the elevator occurs. This is fine. What we have is a classic "four-bar linkage" and it all works when things are square. The problem comes when we change the relationship between the pivot centers of the bellcrank and the horn but still try to maintain the axis centers vertical (keep the bellcrank straight up and down with the elevators neutral). With only a slight displacement, it isn't bad but in the Piet it's enough to throw the geometry off and create slack in the cables when the stick is displaced. To remove all the error, you mount the bellcrank pivot center in a direct line with the elevator pivot center when both the bellcrank and the horn are exactly vertical. I think this is what John Dilatush did on "Mountain Piet", and others have done the same, but the problem then becomes that you absolutely, positively must have pulleys under the pilot's seat to displace the control cables up to the bellcrank... a rubbing block or fairlead guide just won't cut it with that much change in direction of the cables as they head up to the bellcrank. Get some popsicle sticks, thumbtacks, and string and make a model. You'll see what I mean. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:21 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: help, please! Gene, I think that it is accepted that that's the way it will be, My cables rub, but when you add the piece of leather, they rub on that. And I don't think that you can perfectly correct the geometry on the cable taughtness. Believe me, Bernard knew what he was doing,,,I've been flying mine for 6 years,,and in no way do you feel a problem with the cables or controls. It's a blast to fly. Build to the plans. Build to the plans. Build to the plans. Build to the plans. Build to the plans. Walt Evans NX140DL "Let's Legalize Freedom" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:14 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: help, please! I am reaching the point where I am starting assembly and need some specific information that I have seen on here before but cannot find now: 1. I have seen the dimensions to change the elevator bellcrank so that the cables (1 do not touch the leading edge of the stab) and (2 do not get tight/slack during movement through their range). The first requires raising the bellcrank, the second is a difference in the distance between the holes for the cables; 2. what is the source for the tailskid spring that most closely matches the one in the plans; Can someone help me with these?? Gene ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:42 PM PST US From: Roman Bukolt Subject: Pietenpol-List: authorized??? I authorize to call this plane a PietenpolOn Jun 14, 2008, at 6:35 PM, HelsperSew@aol.com wrote: > Gene, > > I understand your inquiry and the reason for it. Just keep in mind > that if your upper elevator cable does not rub on the horizontal > stabilizer, you are not officially authorized to call your airplane > " Pietenpol"................... Sorry. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gene Rambo > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 6:14 pm > Subject: Pietenpol-List: help, please! > > I am reaching the point where I am starting assembly and need some > specific information that I have seen on here before but cannot find > now: > > 1. I have seen the dimensions to change the elevator bellcrank so > that the cables (1 do not touch the leading edge of the stab) and (2 > do not get tight/slack during movement through their range). The > first requires raising the bellcrank, the second is a difference in > the distance between the holes for the cables; > > 2. what is the source for the tailskid spring that most closely > matches the one in the plans; > > Can someone help me with these?? > > Gene > > > Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:52 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: help, please! Walt; you got it exactly right! Once my Piet leaves the ground, the controls are a light and harmonious unit and all the slop, drag, and clunk are absolutely gone... it's light to the touch, responsive, and I'm connected to the airplane completely. Forget degrees of roll rate per second, phugoid oscillation, and stability... just start the engine and fly the airplane and you'll be perfectly happy with Bernard's creation. I know I am! I just had to get past my A&P's hesitation at the annual inspection when he showed alarm at the slack elevator cables. "All Pietenpols are like this" sort of settled him down ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finally! From: "MikeD" This is the sort of thing you think one would do before you actually buy a project like we just did, but I and my co-owner buddy finally got to fly in a Piet for the first time. Today was the Piet gathering in Brussels Ontario, and Brian Kenney took us each up for short flights. It was quite a relief to find out we both thoroughly enjoyed it, and the airplane is pretty much what we expected it to be, which is a good thing. Boy, these Piets sure have rudder authority don't they? It was pretty bumpy today, but the Piet was a pleasure to fly. So now we are truly fired up and itching to get ours finished! Also got to see a Swift fly, an aircraft I ogled and lusted after when they were first mentioned quite some years ago. 26:1 L/D for a foot launched glider ain't too shabby.. Boy it looks unique in the air! And seems to glide forever. Mike D. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187937#187937 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/swiftandwaves_136.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:18 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Strut Brackets Dane The problem with your question is that the angle will change depending what configuration of wheels you use. If you are going to use 21" motorcycle wheels I will go out and measure tomorrow. If you are using a 6.00-6 it will be different and my numbers wont help. It looks to me just looking at your drawings, your brackets might be too narrow. Which drawings are you basing these on? The drawings in the Flying Glider manuals indicate 1 3/4" between mounting holes. That will interfere with the ash beam that is on the fuse floor. Also, The tangs that attach to the lift struts should carry thru being one solid piece. You wouldnt want a weld to break there. Beautiful CAD drawings. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lars Hulgreen To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 5:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Strut Brackets Need some advise, I am contemplating making my wheel struts out of wood, and for that purpose I have designed a bracket from three pieces of metal that will be welded together. I am a little uncertain of the angel between the bottom of the fuselage and the strut .. If anybody could help I sure would appreciate it. Dane ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:49 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Strut Brackets Dane This drawing is close to the way I built my fittings.They are slightly modified brackets based on the wood landing gear plans. I change one thing from the drawing, the lift strut strap that touches the bottom of the fuselage went strait and was welded to a cross brace connected to the other side. The bottom strap was then used for the cross cable brace. These pictures might help explain it better. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/IMG_2448.JPG and http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/IMG_2977.JPG . Although I was a bit intimidated by them, they were not hard to fabricate. As for the angles to make all the bends, I drew a front view of the fuselage to scale and placed the axel where I wanted it below the fuselage and simply drew in the wood legs. I then measured the angles on the drawing. I used CAD but it also worked fine on paper. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lars Hulgreen To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 3:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheel Strut Brackets Need some advise, I am contemplating making my wheel struts out of wood, and for that purpose I have designed a bracket from three pieces of metal that will be welded together. I am a little uncertain of the angel between the bottom of the fuselage and the strut .. If anybody could help I sure would appreciate it. 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