Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:09 AM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (gcardinal)
2. 08:25 AM - Re: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting kids sit in the cockpit (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=)
3. 09:11 AM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken)
4. 09:37 AM - Re: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting kids sit in the cockpit (airlion@bellsouth.net)
5. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (Tim Willis)
6. 11:25 AM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (zharvey@bellsouth.net)
7. 11:46 AM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken)
8. 01:04 PM - Re: Couple cowling questions (MikeD)
9. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (Michael Silvius)
10. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
11. 01:44 PM - information about cable rubbing.... (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
12. 02:07 PM - Re: information about cable rubbing.... (walt evans)
13. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=)
14. 02:13 PM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken)
15. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=)
16. 02:14 PM - Cowling Questions ()
17. 02:17 PM - Rick Hollands Cowling Questions (Catdesigns)
18. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (Michael Silvius)
19. 02:39 PM - Re: Re: Couple cowling questions (Rick Holland)
20. 02:47 PM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (Michael Silvius)
21. 02:48 PM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken)
22. 03:11 PM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken)
23. 03:24 PM - Cross Country in a Piet (G. Robert Stetson)
24. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (Michael Silvius)
25. 05:35 PM - Re: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it (shad bell)
26. 05:42 PM - Re: Rick Hollands Cowling Questions, Paint (shad bell)
27. 06:09 PM - Re: Cross Country in a Piet (Dick Navratil)
28. 06:16 PM - Piet for sale (Dick Navratil)
29. 06:56 PM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken)
30. 07:13 PM - Re: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=)
31. 07:19 PM - Re: Piet for sale (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=)
32. 07:26 PM - Re: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it (John Hofmann)
33. 08:06 PM - adding a baggage compartment (Oscar Zuniga)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
Adding 60 lbs. behind the pilot seat will move the cg substantially. On
NX18235 the cg change would be more than 2.5".
Putting fuel in the center section is a good idea for two reasons. It puts
the fuel weight close to the cg and it raises the fuel pressure at the
carburetor.
As Shad commented, a Stearman type fuel guage works well.
Making the front stick removable and disconnecting the front rudder pedals
turns the front cockpit into a very large baggage compartment.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "rubber314chicken" <rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
> <rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
>
> I want to add a baggage compartment to the pietenpol. I was thinking of
> positing it behind the pilot's seat (door accessible from the outside),
> but that might throw the CG off too much, right? How far back would the CG
> move with 60 lbs directly behind the pilot?
>
> The second idea I got was to use wing tanks, and make the location for
> baggage the area behind the engine where a fuel tank would usually be, but
> I'm kind of weary of using wing tanks because with the lack of height
> there could be fuel starvation problems (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'd
> also have to put a fuel gauge on the panel because I couldn't do a J-3
> style gauge.
>
> The other idea was to partition some of the area on the floor of the two
> cabins with some plywood to hold stuff so that I can have access to stuff
> (maps and charts) in flight and then the stuff can be stored in there as
> well for the baggage, but that would have to be pretty restricted to all
> full control and foot movement (and comfort)
>
> I could do a combination of the three, so that the weights could be
> balanced out a bit to avoid movement of the CG. Ideas? comments?
>
> that's forward, aft, and in cabin storage, so I think that is all there
> could be right? I don't want to do wing because of the restrictions on
> height (how thick is the wing anyways?)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188985#188985
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting |
kids sit in the cockpit
Jim
Well stated and written. As a safety professional for more than 35 years and an
active enthuiast of downhill skiing,motorcycling,boating and a pilot. My career
and life has revolved around risk mitigation. At one point I also worked as
a set safety consultant and still do at times for high risk TV shows.
The truth of the matter is that people have little comprehension of risk mitigation
and a term I have coined as predictive thinking as 2 of the cornerstons of
life safety. Daredevil couldn't be further from the truth it is infact more
the perception than the reality
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting
kids sit in the cockpit
Nobody in either my extended family or my wife's extended family flies or has flown.
It's something I wanted to do, so I did it (against the very vocalized fears
of my parents at the time, by the way). Having family that understands it
helps.
I met my wife long after I was rated. She knew flying came as part of the package
and has never discouraged my flying (my mother, on the other hand, still thinks
I'm partially suicidal, even 20+ years later). The number of times she's
been in a plane with me I think I can count on one hand. She actually prefers
gliders over power planes, mostly because of the lack of noise. I've also give
rides to my father and my brother, but never my mother or sisters, at least yet.
My experience with the attitude of the non-flying (spouse, stranger or whoever)
towards flying is that it's all about familiarity. The media and the movies have
done boatloads of disservice to flying by playing on people's fears to make
a quick buck. I recall an accident (a crash, one plane, IIRC) at a non-controlled
field. The widely-circulated local paper wrote up a less than factual article,
including a totally irrelevant statement that there was no ATC at the field.
Several people came to me in shocked disbelief about how awful it was there
was no controller on site, which was an echo of the tone of the article. I
asked them how they managed to live while operating their cars at intersections
with only stop signs, then explained there are commonly-understood procedures
for uncontrolled fields, just like at those intersections. I've iterated similar
circumstances countless times with slightly varying themes, and the lights
usually go on after a reasonable explanation. I r!
esent having to 'undo' the ignorant fear these people have propagated, but I do
it. On the other side of the fence, rarely does anybody report or make movies
about the emergency landings and procedures that don't end in fire, death, or
major property damage. Granted, I've never reported the emergencies I've had,
but even if it does get reported, it just doesn't sell. Nobody cares that my
carburetor had problems and I made a dead-stick landing at an airport, fixed
the problem, and flew out.
I hate to say it, but some pilots propagate this ignorance, too. They seem to like
the image the ignorant have of the pilot being some kind of mystic daredevil
(You're a ...... PILOT?!?, Wow!), and taking the mystique out of it might risk
them being reduced to mere mortal status. I prefer to think of myself as one
who's been priveleged with the resources to allow me to fly, has assessed the
risks versus the rewards, and made the commitment. I guess I don't see it as
a Wow! kinda thing, just something I enjoy doing while others are out maybe
boating or motorcycling.
People don't understand we've been trained to assess the risks and make decisions
in emergency situations, because they've rarely, if ever, done it for themselves.
I live near the top of a hill. My road comes to a T at the bottom, so in
the winter if the road is icy, there's a chance of not being able to stop and
going into oncoming traffic. I've told my wife I'd rather she controllably put
the car in the ditch (or bounce off the snow-bank) on the right side, rather
than getting t-boned on the highway (I had to do it for the first time once
last winter). This has given her a better concept of situational awareness than
she had before. I wish they required this kind of stuff to get a driver's license,
but that wouldn't fly with the politicians.
My wife used to be a white-knuckle passenger. When I met her, she had been on a
total of two commercial flights (one trip), and never in a small plane. I'd flown
for several years at that point, and had probably averaged anywhere from
2 to maybe 12 commercial trips a year for either business or pleasure. Now she
averages a couple commercial trips a year and has learned to sleep on them. Same
thing with her sister (who's first commercial flight was a couple days before
9/11, and ended up driving home when the airspace was shut down and a mess).
She's on a plane for a trip from NY to Yellowstone as I write. And she sleeps
on the plane now. The ignorance and fear are gone.
My wife will never be one to learn to fly herself, but her understanding of it
makes it easier for her to be supportive, and allows her to participate in it
with me with minimal stress.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>Sent: Jun 21, 2008 7:57 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying spouse and letting kids sit in the cockpit
>
>John, I read the post too, and wasn't sure I wanted to admit my wife is same
>as yours. Only difference is I'm building a Mustang II. She shows no
>interest in the project, and even though I tried to express to her the time and
>money we had to contribute to build the plane, and she agreed to it, I find now
>she's not OK with it. But what do you do when you're thousands of dollars into
>something. Can't stop now, cause I'll never recoup the money I have in it if
>I sell it in pieces. I'd be lucky if I sold a flying plane, never mind parts
>of a plane!
> But, maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. We have three young
>children, and my hope is that they will have an interest in flying. We'll
>just leave mom at home and off to the beach we go!
>Boyce
>N920BS reserved
>Mustang II
>
>
>**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
>fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote:
> How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, and duffle
> in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots of ideas
> on the flight line.
> Dick
> ---
that is about what I plan on carrying, but for two people, so its not like I can
throw it in the front cockpit.
and fyi, I planned on making the front stick removable, and there are not going
to be front rudder pedals for weight reasons (and unless they have a license,
I wouldn't want them to be trying slips and stuff in the plane), so that is space
that can be used.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189066#189066
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting |
kids sit in the cockpit
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
Baggage is a problem. If you are planning on a passenger, full fuel and 60 pounds
of baggage, you need a different plane, for several reasons:
1. That is going to put you at a high gross weight. When Chuck Gantzer flies
cross-country, he disconnects all controls in the front and carefully stows his
baggage. Still, he limits his load to about 25 pounds, for improved flying.
2. Generally, in a Piet, it's either a passenger OR baggage. However, as you
know, the design allows you to have baggage either in the center wing top or in
the space right behind the firewall-- wherever you do NOT have a fuel tank.
Anything else is a stretch.
3. Your passenger can only have so much around him or her. How would the passenger
get in and out with baggage underfoot? It's hard enough without encumberances.
4. Greg is right about the CG. Anything behind the pilot is in the wrong place.
I am trying to accommodate 6 more pounds for a pair of boots back there, and
the math does not work well for me.
5. Greg didn't mention space. Your baggage, if behind the pilot, has to be stowed
to miss pulleys, control rods or tubes, bellcranks, cables, etc., and make
SURE it always does. You will want to be able to look at all these things for
inspection, so your baggage stowage compartment needs to come apart. Webbing
is one answer. An inspection door that hinges down from under the fuze is
another. Corky did that on Oscar's plane, and I plan that, too.
6. You can stow things like maps, gloves, logbook, etc., several places, but a
tent, sleeping bag, sutcase, etc., are mostly ruled out if a passenger is involved.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: rubber314chicken <rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jun 22, 2008 11:08 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
>
>
>
>horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote:
>> How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, and duffle
>> in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots of ideas
>> on the flight line.
>> Dick
>> ---
>
>
>that is about what I plan on carrying, but for two people, so its not like I can
throw it in the front cockpit.
>
>and fyi, I planned on making the front stick removable, and there are not going
to be front rudder pedals for weight reasons (and unless they have a license,
I wouldn't want them to be trying slips and stuff in the plane), so that is
space that can be used.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189066#189066
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
Tim. Very good post. I agree, he needs a different airplane.
Gene
N502R
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Tim Willis timothywillis@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Baggage is a problem. If you are planning on a passenger, full fuel and 60
pounds of baggage, you need a different
plane, for several reasons:
1. That is going to put you at a high gross weight. When Chuck Gantzer
flies cross-country, he disconnects all
controls in the front and carefully stows his baggage. Still, he limits
his load to about 25 pounds, for improved
flying.
2. Generally, in a Piet, it's either a passenger OR baggage. However, as
you know, the design allows you to have
baggage either in the center wing top or in the space right behind the
firewall-- wherever you do NOT have a fuel
tank. Anything else is a stretch.
3. Your passenger can only have so much around him or her. How would the
passenger get in and out with
baggage underfoot? It's hard enough without encumberances.
4. Greg is right about the CG. Anything behind the pilot is in the wrong
place. I am trying to accommodate 6 more
pounds for a pair of boots back there, and the math does not work well for
me.
5. Greg didn't mention space. Your baggage, if behind the pilot, has to
be stowed to miss pulleys, control rods or
tubes, bellcranks, cables, etc., and make SURE it always does. You will
want to be able to look at all these things for
inspection, so your baggage stowage compartment needs to come apart.
Webbing is one answer. An inspection
door that hinges down from under the fuze is another. Corky did that on
Oscar's plane, and I plan that, too.
6. You can stow things like maps, gloves, logbook, etc., several places,
but a tent, sleeping bag, sutcase, etc., are
mostly ruled out if a passenger is involved.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: rubber314chicken <rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jun 22, 2008 11:08 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
>
<rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
>
>
>horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote:
>> How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, and
duffle
>> in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots of
ideas
>> on the flight line.
>> Dick
>> ---
>
>
>that is about what I plan on carrying, but for two people, so its not like
I can throw it in the front cockpit.
>
>and fyi, I planned on making the front stick removable, and there are not
going to be front rudder pedals for
weight reasons (and unless they have a license, I wouldn't want them to be
trying slips and stuff in the plane), so
that is space that can be used.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189066#189066
>
>
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Message 7
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
then what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it at
about 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be built
in a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of the
one piece wing), and is economical to build and fly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189095#189095
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Couple cowling questions |
Rick, you having some posting problems or what??? :P
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189104#189104
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
One idea for baggage that I have seen used on the Fly-Baby is a cylindrical
pod type satchel that attaches to the bottom of the fuselage at CG like a
drop tank. The Fly-Baby design of this pod provides enough room for an
overnight bag.
I have seen items like a prop bough at a fly-market carried lashed to the
lift struts snug up to the fuselage on parasol wing aircraft. I suppose if
some one was smart you could create some sort of cylindrical tube stuffed w/
your bare essentials lashed to the struts in this manner.
As for the Jodel, have you looked at the Falconar F-11-3?
http://members.shaw.ca/falconark/FA/f11e.htm
http://members.shaw.ca/falconark/FA/FSeries.htm
This is a Chris Falconar variant of the Jodel D-11 by . It will fly nicely
on 65 hp. The F11-3 is a folding wing version of the D-11. And though many
report the trouble of the complexity of the folding wing mechanism not worth
the hassle it is a way to build the wing in sections. Some have done this
and only upon completion did they delete the folding wing mechanism and made
the outer panels fixed. Falconar' variant is also easier to build than the
original Jodel as the wing washout built in to the spar in the Jodel is
accomplished in the Falconar via rib placement on a straight box spar.
Michael Silvius
Falconar F-12 w/ Mazda rotary in progress
----- Original Message -----
From: "rubber314chicken" <rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
>
> then what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises
it at about 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can
be built in a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs
because of the one piece wing), and is economical to build and fly.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
That is the $40.00 question....
-
In my application, I have made the pietenpol wider for my dimensions and fo
r my weight. Being 6'0" and in good shape (270lbs) I have made some-forwa
rd changes-for my W/B calculations. For example, my tank is header design
ed with 10-12 gallons and 5/32 aluminum which will help offset some of my w
eight. as for my front cockpit, Greg has it right on the money.....removabl
e forward stick and disconnect rudder pedals for some storage with no passe
nger for my flying demands. So, use the 6 P's before you decide to dive int
o the project and find out later on this is not the plane for you....(Piss
poor planning = piss poor performance)...or something like that...
-
Please take no offense as these post are only an "opinion" and not to distr
act nor chase away anyone who seeks to build a pietenpol. Besides.....I am
the sites only village idiot and my questions have many pondering for days.
...even years....
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
-
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, rubber314chicken <rubber314chicken@gmail.com> wrote:
From: rubber314chicken <rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
<rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
then what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it
at
about 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be b
uilt
in a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of th
e one
piece wing), and is economical to build and fly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189095#189095
============0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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Subject: | information about cable rubbing.... |
Pieters.....
-
I would like to visit with the gentleman who was interested in preventing t
he cables from rubbing on the front half of the horizontal stabilizer. Can
that person email me....
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
-
=0A=0A=0A
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: information about cable rubbing.... |
Kenneth,
Just a note,,,the cables only rub on the leading edge at rest.
While flying, they are up and clear.
Thank you
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"Let's Legalize Freedom"
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 4:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: information about cable rubbing....
Pieters.....
I would like to visit with the gentleman who was interested in
preventing the cables from rubbing on the front half of the horizontal
stabilizer. Can that person email me....
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
Ken,
I. Like the 6 Ps concept... I think I spend the majority of my build time in the
planning phase trying desperately not to screw it up!
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
That is the $40.00 question....
In my application, I have made the pietenpol wider for my dimensions and for my
weight. Being 6'0" and in good shape (270lbs) I have made someforward changesfor
my W/B calculations. For example, my tank is header designed with 10-12 gallons
and 5/32 aluminum which will help offset some of my weight. as for my front
cockpit, Greg has it right on the money.....removable forward stick and disconnect
rudder pedals for some storage with no passenger for my flying demands.
So, use the 6 P's before you decide to dive into the project and find out later
on this is not the plane for you....(Piss poor planning = piss poor performance)...or
something like that...
Please take no offense as these post are only an "opinion" and not to distract
nor chase away anyone who seeks to build a pietenpol. Besides.....I am the sites
only village idiot and my questions have many pondering for days....even years....
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
--- On Sun, 6/22/08, rubber314chicken <rubber314chicken@gmail.com> wrote:
From: rubber314chicken <rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
Well, doing some math, being very conservative in estimates (such as spruce being
50lbs/ft^3 and so forth) I came out with a useful load of 460, which would
allow for two 170 lb people, 12 gallons of gas, and then 40 lbs on to of that.
I think with some more careful thought and planning I might be able to make
this work.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189118#189118
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
K2 one man ship made of wood and goes like krazy
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "rubber314chicken" <rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
then what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it at
about 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be built
in a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of the
one piece wing), and is economical to build and fly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189095#189095
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Subject: | Cowling Questions |
This is the message Rick Holland has been trying to send to the list.
I have cutout my "cardboard cowling", as shown on the famous Mike Cuy
video (see attached), ready to order some more aluminum sheet, and have
a couple questions.
First, far behind the firewall does the back edge of your cowling go
(overlap)?
Second, how large of an opening did you leave at the bottom of cowling
(if any) for hot air to escape?
Third, as far as alternative paint for aluminum, I know PolyFiber or
Randolph aircraft paint is the best way to go but I a Latex kind of guy
(which is what I am painting the fabric with). Has anyone had any luck
painting a cowling with something besides aircraft or two part epoxy
paint? Spray on Latex?
Thanks
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 17
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Subject: | Rick Hollands Cowling Questions |
This is the message Rick Holland has been trying to send to the list.
I have cutout my "cardboard cowling", as shown on the famous Mike Cuy video (see
attached), ready to order some more aluminum sheet, and have a couple questions.
First, far behind the firewall does the back edge of your cowling go (overlap)?
Second, how large of an opening did you leave at the bottom of cowling (if any)
for hot air to escape?
Third, as far as alternative paint for aluminum, I know PolyFiber or Randolph aircraft
paint is the best way to go but I a Latex kind of guy (which is what I
am painting the fabric with). Has anyone had any luck painting a cowling with
something besides aircraft or two part epoxy paint? Spray on Latex?
Thanks
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
--------
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189123#189123
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2432_593.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2431_739.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2430_411.jpg
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
Fly-Baby baggage pod
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/bowers/a2a.jpg
Michael
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Subject: | Re: Couple cowling questions |
Yes, but Chris got it posted for me.
do not archive
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 2:01 PM, MikeD <mjdt@auracom.com> wrote:
>
> Rick, you having some posting problems or what??? :P
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189104#189104
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
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Subject: | adding a baggage compartment |
Center section baggage as shown in this photo?
it has been done before.
Michael
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
silvius(at)gwi.net wrote:
> Fly-Baby baggage pod
>
> http://www.bowersflybaby.com/bowers/a2a.jpg
>
> Michael
thanks for the pic.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189138#189138
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
silvius(at)gwi.net wrote:
> Center section baggage as shown in this photo?
>
> it has been done before.
>
> Michael
I'm just curios about how big the space would be... what is the height of the spars,
and the maximum height in the wing?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189144#189144
Message 23
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Subject: | Cross Country in a Piet |
To those who question the wisdom of making long trips in a Piet style
airplane, I always ask "Why not?". Remember, a long trip is just a
bunch of short ones end-to-end. My longest ride was from Marlborough,
MA (about 30 miles west of Boston) to Portland, OR in an Aeronca 7AC
Champ with another guy from the airport. What could be more fun than
two guys that get along well together in an antique airplane headed west
with each carrying a CVS bag full of clean underwear. We each took our
oldest, most worn out underwear so the payload got lighter as we
approached the Rockies. The entire trip was made at less than 3000 AGL
and was done with maps. No GPS. No electrical system. Handheld radio
that was used only when we were in the vicinity of an airport we
intended to use. We landed at two towered fields the whole trip and
only because it was necessary. The first was Casper, WY and we stopped
there because we needed to leave from there on our leg to Rock Springs
with full tanks. The second towered field was the final destination.
I have made three trips from Marlborough, MA to Lock Haven PA and back
for the annual Piper fly-in in my J3 Cub, twice alone and once with a
passenger. Not an issue. It just takes a while. You may have seen my
Cub in Flying magazine. It's unique in that it's red with cream trim as
opposed to the boring black on yellow.
The point is, there are two reasons to get into an airplane to go
somewhere: (1) you want to go flying and end up somewhere else and (2)
you want to go somewhere else and choose to get there in an airplane.
If the reason is to go flying, try low and slow. It's more fun and
there are lots of neat things to see on the way. Also, it's harder to
outfly your maps and forward visibility if you are low and slow. If the
reason is to get somewhere and you want to use an airplane, buy a
Skyhawk and put a GPS receiver in it. Maybe even an autopilot so you
can kill time by reading or taking a nap.
Again, cross country in a Piet? Why not? Don't knock it unless you've
tried it.
GRS
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
Don't have the number in front of me but I am guessing front spar is 4&1/2
to 5 inches tall. ( my plans are for the Grega)
the attached photos should give you a notion of capacity.
if a fellow can't get what he needs in that space for a trip he might as
well buy an airline ticket.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "rubber314chicken" <rubber314chicken@gmail.com>
>
> I'm just curios about how big the space would be... what is the height of
the spars, and the maximum height in the wing?
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it |
The most memorable trip I have flown was a cross country in a piet. Centerburg
Ohio to poplar Grove ILL in 2006. Learned more about flying on that trip than
all my 200 hrs before that. No GPS, No Radios except handheld and only a sectional
chart and wristwatch for navigation. That is "Real flying". I got low
a couple times to double check the name painted on the water towers to make
sure I was on track. Had my 1st precationary landing for engine problems, the
worst cross wind I ever landed in, in a taildragger (27 gust to 36 kts) at Howell
New Lenox Airport in ILL, which is no longer there. Which brings up a good
argument for having a CURRENT sectional chart, new lennox was closed 2 weeks
after I landed there to make room for houses, and I am damn glad it was still
there. I learned that weather briefers are very often wrong about forecasts,
even if only 1 hour into the future. And the final lesson of that trip was
It takes lots more planning and effort to trailer
an airplane back from the previously mentioned cross country flight in a pietenpol.
The more time that goes by the more memerable that trip becomes. I can't
wait to do the first part (the flying part) all over again next month, OH71
to C37 Brodhead WI.
Shad
"G. Robert Stetson" <gr.stetson@verizon.net> wrote:
To those who question the wisdom of making long trips in a Piet style
airplane, I always ask "Why not?". Remember, a long trip is just a
bunch of short ones end-to-end. My longest ride was from Marlborough,
MA (about 30 miles west of Boston) to Portland, OR in an Aeronca 7AC
Champ with another guy from the airport. What could be more fun than
two guys that get along well together in an antique airplane headed west
with each carrying a CVS bag full of clean underwear. We each took our
oldest, most worn out underwear so the payload got lighter as we
approached the Rockies. The entire trip was made at less than 3000 AGL
and was done with maps. No GPS. No electrical system. Handheld radio
that was used only when we were in the vicinity of an airport we
intended to use. We landed at two towered fields the whole trip and
only because it was necessary. The first was Casper, WY and we stopped
there because we needed to leave from there on our leg to Rock Springs
with full tanks. The second towered field was the final destination.
I have made three trips from Marlborough, MA to Lock Haven PA and back
for the annual Piper fly-in in my J3 Cub, twice alone and once with a
passenger. Not an issue. It just takes a while. You may have seen my
Cub in Flying magazine. It's unique in that it's red with cream trim as
opposed to the boring black on yellow.
The point is, there are two reasons to get into an airplane to go
somewhere: (1) you want to go flying and end up somewhere else and (2)
you want to go somewhere else and choose to get there in an airplane.
If the reason is to go flying, try low and slow. It's more fun and
there are lots of neat things to see on the way. Also, it's harder to
outfly your maps and forward visibility if you are low and slow. If the
reason is to get somewhere and you want to use an airplane, buy a
Skyhawk and put a GPS receiver in it. Maybe even an autopilot so you
can kill time by reading or taking a nap.
Again, cross country in a Piet? Why not? Don't knock it unless you've
tried it.
GRS
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Rick Hollands Cowling Questions, Paint |
Rick, Dad used automotive arcrilic enamel on all his metal parts. !st it was primed
with an etch primer then a couple coats of the enamel. Looks good, and
probably cheaper, eaiser and faster to get a color match to your latex exteior
house paint. Latex is the same thing dad used on the fabric. However the auto
paint is probably just as toxic as the other paints, (randolph, or poly fiber)
so a resporator or fresh air mask is a must. After 5 hrs of spraying, wearing
the "proper" resporator, I had blue buggers for a couple days, (hope I didn't
shorten my life too much.
Shad
Catdesigns <Catdesigns@att.net> wrote:
This is the message Rick Holland has been trying to send to the list.
I have cutout my "cardboard cowling", as shown on the famous Mike Cuy video (see
attached), ready to order some more aluminum sheet, and have a couple questions.
First, far behind the firewall does the back edge of your cowling go (overlap)?
Second, how large of an opening did you leave at the bottom of cowling (if any)
for hot air to escape?
Third, as far as alternative paint for aluminum, I know PolyFiber or Randolph aircraft
paint is the best way to go but I a Latex kind of guy (which is what I
am painting the fabric with). Has anyone had any luck painting a cowling with
something besides aircraft or two part epoxy paint? Spray on Latex?
Thanks
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
--------
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189123#189123
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2432_593.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2431_739.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2430_411.jpg
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Cross Country in a Piet |
Good post there ,Bob. Nice to see you on the list here. I hope you will be
able to make it to Brodhead this year.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "G. Robert Stetson" <gr.stetson@verizon.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 5:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet
> <gr.stetson@verizon.net>
>
> To those who question the wisdom of making long trips in a Piet style
> airplane, I always ask "Why not?". Remember, a long trip is just a
> bunch of short ones end-to-end. My longest ride was from Marlborough,
> MA (about 30 miles west of Boston) to Portland, OR in an Aeronca 7AC
> Champ with another guy from the airport. What could be more fun than
> two guys that get along well together in an antique airplane headed west
> with each carrying a CVS bag full of clean underwear. We each took our
> oldest, most worn out underwear so the payload got lighter as we
> approached the Rockies. The entire trip was made at less than 3000 AGL
> and was done with maps. No GPS. No electrical system. Handheld radio
> that was used only when we were in the vicinity of an airport we
> intended to use. We landed at two towered fields the whole trip and
> only because it was necessary. The first was Casper, WY and we stopped
> there because we needed to leave from there on our leg to Rock Springs
> with full tanks. The second towered field was the final destination.
>
> I have made three trips from Marlborough, MA to Lock Haven PA and back
> for the annual Piper fly-in in my J3 Cub, twice alone and once with a
> passenger. Not an issue. It just takes a while. You may have seen my
> Cub in Flying magazine. It's unique in that it's red with cream trim as
> opposed to the boring black on yellow.
>
> The point is, there are two reasons to get into an airplane to go
> somewhere: (1) you want to go flying and end up somewhere else and (2)
> you want to go somewhere else and choose to get there in an airplane.
> If the reason is to go flying, try low and slow. It's more fun and
> there are lots of neat things to see on the way. Also, it's harder to
> outfly your maps and forward visibility if you are low and slow. If the
> reason is to get somewhere and you want to use an airplane, buy a
> Skyhawk and put a GPS receiver in it. Maybe even an autopilot so you
> can kill time by reading or taking a nap.
>
> Again, cross country in a Piet? Why not? Don't knock it unless you've
> tried it.
>
> GRS
>
>
>
Message 28
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I have been dreading this, but it's time that I put my Piet NX2RN up for
sale. I will be posting it on Barnstormers later in the week after re
checking everything.
My new Piet now has over 30 hours on it and I just cant fly 2 at once.
I am pricing at $12,500. This is the short fuse w/ A-65. Plane is
based at Osceola, Wi. OEO
I will have details assembled in the next couple of days. Anyone
interested can find me at horzpool@goldengate.net or call 651-638-0793
Dick N
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: adding a baggage compartment |
okay. So I guess no I just have to decide which would be baggage. I'm thinking
the wing will be for fuel.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189193#189193
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Subject: | Re: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it |
Nothing like getting low to read the signs of navigation
" I have always had a soft spot in my heart for the town of Poath......... Poth!
Poth......."
Doc Dillhoffer
As I have heard it said: all things in life can be answered and attributed to TGWP.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it
The most memorable trip I have flown was a cross country in a piet. Centerburg
Ohio to poplar Grove ILL in 2006. Learned more about flying on that trip than
all my 200 hrs before that. No GPS, No Radios except handheld and only a sectional
chart and wristwatch for navigation. That is "Real flying". I got low a couple
times to double check the name painted on the water towers to make sure
I was on track. Had my 1st precationary landing for engine problems, the worst
cross wind I ever landed in, in a taildragger (27 gust to 36 kts) at Howell New
Lenox Airport in ILL, which is no longer there. Which brings up a good argument
for having a CURRENT sectional chart, new lennox was closed 2 weeks after
I landed there to make room for houses, and I am damn glad it was still there.
I learned that weather briefers are very often wrong about forecasts, even if
only 1 hour into the future. And the final lesson of that trip was It takes
lots more planning and effortto trailer an airplane back from the previously mentioned
cross country flight in a pietenpol. The more time that goes by the more
memerable that trip becomes. I can't wait to do the first part (the flying
part) all over again next month, OH71 to C37 Brodhead WI.
Shad
To those who question the wisdom of making long trips in a Piet style
airplane, I always ask "Why not?". Remember, a long trip is just a
bunch of short ones end-to-end. My longest ride was from Marlborough,
MA (about 30 miles west of Boston) to Portland, OR in an Aeronca 7AC
Champ with another guy from the airport. What could be more fun than
two guys that get along well together in an antique airplane headed west
with each carrying a CVS bag full of clean underwear. We each took our
oldest, most worn out underwear so the payload got lighter as we
approached the Rockies. The entire trip was made at less than 3000 AGL
and was done with maps. No GPS. No electrical system. Handheld radio
that was used only when we were in the vicinity of an airport we
intended to use. We landed at two towered fields the whole trip and
only because it was necessary. The first was Casper, WY and we stopped
there because we needed to leave from there on our leg to Rock Springs
with full tanks. The second towered field was the final destination.
I have made three trips from Marlborough, MA to Lock Haven PA and back
for the annual Piper fly-in in my J3 Cub, twice alone and once with a
passenger. Not an issue. It just takes a while. You may have seen my
Message 31
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|
Subject: | Re: Piet for sale |
Dick
You been flying around with a forflusher feeding you performance and style so she
can work her ways with you
The Stunt King
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
To:<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale
I have been dreading this, but it's time that I put my Piet NX2RN up for sale.
I will be posting it on Barnstormers later in the week after re checking everything.
My new Piet now has over 30 hours on it and I just cant fly 2 at once. I am pricing
at $12,500. This is the short fuse w/ A-65. Plane is based at Osceola, Wi.
OEO
I will have details assembled in the next couple of days. Anyone interested can find me at horzpool@goldengate.net <mailto:horzpool@goldengate.net> or call 651-638-0793
Message 32
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Subject: | Re: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it |
Life and The Great Waldo Pepper
Answer to the recent message thread of spousal support and aviation/
Pietenpol:
"I knew she wasn't worth top billing."
See you all in about a month.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jun 22, 2008, at 9:10 PM, John Recine wrote:
> <AmsafetyC@aol.com>
>
> Nothing like getting low to read the signs of navigation
>
> " I have always had a soft spot in my heart for the town of
> Poath......... Poth! Poth......."
>
> Doc Dillhoffer
>
> As I have heard it said: all things in life can be answered and
> attributed to TGWP.
>
> John
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:31:19
> To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't
> forget it
>
>
> The most memorable trip I have flown was a cross country in a piet.
> Centerburg Ohio to poplar Grove ILL in 2006. Learned more about
> flying on that trip than all my 200 hrs before that. No GPS, No
> Radios except handheld and only a sectional chart and wristwatch for
> navigation. That is "Real flying". I got low a couple times to
> double check the name painted on the water towers to make sure I was
> on track. Had my 1st precationary landing for engine problems, the
> worst cross wind I ever landed in, in a taildragger (27 gust to 36
> kts) at Howell New Lenox Airport in ILL, which is no longer there.
> Which brings up a good argument for having a CURRENT sectional
> chart, new lennox was closed 2 weeks after I landed there to make
> room for houses, and I am damn glad it was still there. I learned
> that weather briefers are very often wrong about forecasts, even if
> only 1 hour into the future. And the final lesson of that trip was
> It takes lots more planning and effort to trailer !
> an airplane back from the previously mentioned cross country flight
> in a pietenpol. The more time that goes by the more memerable that
> trip becomes. I can't wait to do the first part (the flying part)
> all over again next month, OH71 to C37 Brodhead WI.
>
> Shad
>
> "G. Robert Stetson" <gr.stetson@verizon.net> wrote: --> Pietenpol-
> List message posted by: "G. Robert Stetson"
>
> To those who question the wisdom of making long trips in a Piet style
> airplane, I always ask "Why not?". Remember, a long trip is just a
> bunch of short ones end-to-end. My longest ride was from Marlborough,
> MA (about 30 miles west of Boston) to Portland, OR in an Aeronca 7AC
> Champ with another guy from the airport. What could be more fun than
> two guys that get along well together in an antique airplane headed
> west
> with each carrying a CVS bag full of clean underwear. We each took our
> oldest, most worn out underwear so the payload got lighter as we
> approached the Rockies. The entire trip was made at less than 3000 AGL
> and was done with maps. No GPS. No electrical system. Handheld radio
> that was used only when we were in the vicinity of an airport we
> intended to use. We landed at two towered fields the whole trip and
> only because it was necessary. The first was Casper, WY and we stopped
> there because we needed to leave from there on our leg to Rock Springs
> with full tanks. The second towered field was the final destination.
>
> I have made three trips from Marlborough, MA to Lock Haven PA and back
> for the annual Piper fly-in in my J3 Cub, twice alone and once with a
> passenger. Not an issue. It just takes a while. You may have seen my
>
>
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Subject: | adding a baggage compartment |
I'm not sure what everyone else's weight and balance sheets look like, but I'll
discuss the one for 41CC relative to baggage and I will also offer to run "what-ifs"
with the Excel spreadsheet for my airplane in various configurations.
1. Almost any combination of pilot and passenger that will physically be able to
stuff themselves into the cockpits, will be able to fly. Slightly more of a
problem if a really large person manages to stuff into the rear cockpit, but
the front passenger is virtually on the CG and makes little or no difference in
CG, although they do affect gross weight. With that being said, your best bet
in carrying baggage is to put it in the front cockpit. Hands down. With my
weight of 150 lbs. in the rear cockpit, I can put at least that amount of baggage
in the front cockpit with no worries, if I can fit it in there. Which I
doubt that I can do ;o) But if I could secure it in the front cockpit, I could
carry a pop tent, duffel bag, and some other gear for a couple of days to maybe
a week's trip with no problems whatsoever.
2. Anything aft of the rear seat is going to be problematic. Most Piets are tail
heavy to begin with unless they have a nice heavy engine up front, and adding
baggage aft of the rear seat is tricky. I think Corky did the initial W&B
on 41CC with a max of 15 lbs. of baggage (in the helmet box behind the rear seat),
but since the rebuild and repairs all I have back there is a seatback pouch
for a spare helmet and goggles, a few small tools, and my traveling papers-
maybe two pounds. I can't fit anything more than that back there and don't want
to, except maybe a quart or two of oil.
3. If you put the fuel in the wing, either in wing tank(s) or centersection tank,
you'll have a great setup. The area ahead of the front cockpit "instrument
panel" is where my fuel tank is, but if there were no fuel tank there I could
fit the equivalent of 16 gallons of fuel there... certainly enough weight and
probably enough volume to hold some camping gear and a duffel bag, even with
a passenger. It's a large space and could be made to fit a lot of stuff.
4. If you don't want to put the fuel in the wings, build a wing locker or two and
plan on carrying a step ladder or something like it to get up in there.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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