---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/22/08: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:09 AM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (gcardinal) 2. 08:25 AM - Re: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting kids sit in the cockpit (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=) 3. 09:11 AM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken) 4. 09:37 AM - Re: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting kids sit in the cockpit (airlion@bellsouth.net) 5. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (Tim Willis) 6. 11:25 AM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (zharvey@bellsouth.net) 7. 11:46 AM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken) 8. 01:04 PM - Re: Couple cowling questions (MikeD) 9. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (Michael Silvius) 10. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 11. 01:44 PM - information about cable rubbing.... (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 12. 02:07 PM - Re: information about cable rubbing.... (walt evans) 13. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=) 14. 02:13 PM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken) 15. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=) 16. 02:14 PM - Cowling Questions () 17. 02:17 PM - Rick Hollands Cowling Questions (Catdesigns) 18. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (Michael Silvius) 19. 02:39 PM - Re: Re: Couple cowling questions (Rick Holland) 20. 02:47 PM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (Michael Silvius) 21. 02:48 PM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken) 22. 03:11 PM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken) 23. 03:24 PM - Cross Country in a Piet (G. Robert Stetson) 24. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: adding a baggage compartment (Michael Silvius) 25. 05:35 PM - Re: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it (shad bell) 26. 05:42 PM - Re: Rick Hollands Cowling Questions, Paint (shad bell) 27. 06:09 PM - Re: Cross Country in a Piet (Dick Navratil) 28. 06:16 PM - Piet for sale (Dick Navratil) 29. 06:56 PM - Re: adding a baggage compartment (rubber314chicken) 30. 07:13 PM - Re: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=) 31. 07:19 PM - Re: Piet for sale (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=) 32. 07:26 PM - Re: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it (John Hofmann) 33. 08:06 PM - adding a baggage compartment (Oscar Zuniga) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:21 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment Adding 60 lbs. behind the pilot seat will move the cg substantially. On NX18235 the cg change would be more than 2.5". Putting fuel in the center section is a good idea for two reasons. It puts the fuel weight close to the cg and it raises the fuel pressure at the carburetor. As Shad commented, a Stearman type fuel guage works well. Making the front stick removable and disconnecting the front rudder pedals turns the front cockpit into a very large baggage compartment. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "rubber314chicken" Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment > > > I want to add a baggage compartment to the pietenpol. I was thinking of > positing it behind the pilot's seat (door accessible from the outside), > but that might throw the CG off too much, right? How far back would the CG > move with 60 lbs directly behind the pilot? > > The second idea I got was to use wing tanks, and make the location for > baggage the area behind the engine where a fuel tank would usually be, but > I'm kind of weary of using wing tanks because with the lack of height > there could be fuel starvation problems (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'd > also have to put a fuel gauge on the panel because I couldn't do a J-3 > style gauge. > > The other idea was to partition some of the area on the floor of the two > cabins with some plywood to hold stuff so that I can have access to stuff > (maps and charts) in flight and then the stuff can be stored in there as > well for the baggage, but that would have to be pretty restricted to all > full control and foot movement (and comfort) > > I could do a combination of the three, so that the weights could be > balanced out a bit to avoid movement of the CG. Ideas? comments? > > that's forward, aft, and in cabin storage, so I think that is all there > could be right? I don't want to do wing because of the restrictions on > height (how thick is the wing anyways?) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188985#188985 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting kids sit in the cockpit From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" Jim Well stated and written. As a safety professional for more than 35 years and an active enthuiast of downhill skiing,motorcycling,boating and a pilot. My career and life has revolved around risk mitigation. At one point I also worked as a set safety consultant and still do at times for high risk TV shows. The truth of the matter is that people have little comprehension of risk mitigation and a term I have coined as predictive thinking as 2 of the cornerstons of life safety. Daredevil couldn't be further from the truth it is infact more the perception than the reality John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Jim Ash To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting kids sit in the cockpit Nobody in either my extended family or my wife's extended family flies or has flown. It's something I wanted to do, so I did it (against the very vocalized fears of my parents at the time, by the way). Having family that understands it helps. I met my wife long after I was rated. She knew flying came as part of the package and has never discouraged my flying (my mother, on the other hand, still thinks I'm partially suicidal, even 20+ years later). The number of times she's been in a plane with me I think I can count on one hand. She actually prefers gliders over power planes, mostly because of the lack of noise. I've also give rides to my father and my brother, but never my mother or sisters, at least yet. My experience with the attitude of the non-flying (spouse, stranger or whoever) towards flying is that it's all about familiarity. The media and the movies have done boatloads of disservice to flying by playing on people's fears to make a quick buck. I recall an accident (a crash, one plane, IIRC) at a non-controlled field. The widely-circulated local paper wrote up a less than factual article, including a totally irrelevant statement that there was no ATC at the field. Several people came to me in shocked disbelief about how awful it was there was no controller on site, which was an echo of the tone of the article. I asked them how they managed to live while operating their cars at intersections with only stop signs, then explained there are commonly-understood procedures for uncontrolled fields, just like at those intersections. I've iterated similar circumstances countless times with slightly varying themes, and the lights usually go on after a reasonable explanation. I r! esent having to 'undo' the ignorant fear these people have propagated, but I do it. On the other side of the fence, rarely does anybody report or make movies about the emergency landings and procedures that don't end in fire, death, or major property damage. Granted, I've never reported the emergencies I've had, but even if it does get reported, it just doesn't sell. Nobody cares that my carburetor had problems and I made a dead-stick landing at an airport, fixed the problem, and flew out. I hate to say it, but some pilots propagate this ignorance, too. They seem to like the image the ignorant have of the pilot being some kind of mystic daredevil (You're a ...... PILOT?!?, Wow!), and taking the mystique out of it might risk them being reduced to mere mortal status. I prefer to think of myself as one who's been priveleged with the resources to allow me to fly, has assessed the risks versus the rewards, and made the commitment. I guess I don't see it as a Wow! kinda thing, just something I enjoy doing while others are out maybe boating or motorcycling. People don't understand we've been trained to assess the risks and make decisions in emergency situations, because they've rarely, if ever, done it for themselves. I live near the top of a hill. My road comes to a T at the bottom, so in the winter if the road is icy, there's a chance of not being able to stop and going into oncoming traffic. I've told my wife I'd rather she controllably put the car in the ditch (or bounce off the snow-bank) on the right side, rather than getting t-boned on the highway (I had to do it for the first time once last winter). This has given her a better concept of situational awareness than she had before. I wish they required this kind of stuff to get a driver's license, but that wouldn't fly with the politicians. My wife used to be a white-knuckle passenger. When I met her, she had been on a total of two commercial flights (one trip), and never in a small plane. I'd flown for several years at that point, and had probably averaged anywhere from 2 to maybe 12 commercial trips a year for either business or pleasure. Now she averages a couple commercial trips a year and has learned to sleep on them. Same thing with her sister (who's first commercial flight was a couple days before 9/11, and ended up driving home when the airspace was shut down and a mess). She's on a plane for a trip from NY to Yellowstone as I write. And she sleeps on the plane now. The ignorance and fear are gone. My wife will never be one to learn to fly herself, but her understanding of it makes it easier for her to be supportive, and allows her to participate in it with me with minimal stress. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com >Sent: Jun 21, 2008 7:57 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying spouse and letting kids sit in the cockpit > >John, I read the post too, and wasn't sure I wanted to admit my wife is same >as yours. Only difference is I'm building a Mustang II. She shows no >interest in the project, and even though I tried to express to her the time and >money we had to contribute to build the plane, and she agreed to it, I find now >she's not OK with it. But what do you do when you're thousands of dollars into >something. Can't stop now, cause I'll never recoup the money I have in it if >I sell it in pieces. I'd be lucky if I sold a flying plane, never mind parts >of a plane! > But, maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. We have three young >children, and my hope is that they will have an interest in flying. We'll >just leave mom at home and off to the beach we go! >Boyce >N920BS reserved >Mustang II > > >**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for >fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment From: "rubber314chicken" horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote: > How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, and duffle > in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots of ideas > on the flight line. > Dick > --- that is about what I plan on carrying, but for two people, so its not like I can throw it in the front cockpit. and fyi, I planned on making the front stick removable, and there are not going to be front rudder pedals for weight reasons (and unless they have a license, I wouldn't want them to be trying slips and stuff in the plane), so that is space that can be used. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189066#189066 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:37:46 AM PST US From: airlion@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting kids sit in the cockpit ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:56 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment Baggage is a problem. If you are planning on a passenger, full fuel and 60 pounds of baggage, you need a different plane, for several reasons: 1. That is going to put you at a high gross weight. When Chuck Gantzer flies cross-country, he disconnects all controls in the front and carefully stows his baggage. Still, he limits his load to about 25 pounds, for improved flying. 2. Generally, in a Piet, it's either a passenger OR baggage. However, as you know, the design allows you to have baggage either in the center wing top or in the space right behind the firewall-- wherever you do NOT have a fuel tank. Anything else is a stretch. 3. Your passenger can only have so much around him or her. How would the passenger get in and out with baggage underfoot? It's hard enough without encumberances. 4. Greg is right about the CG. Anything behind the pilot is in the wrong place. I am trying to accommodate 6 more pounds for a pair of boots back there, and the math does not work well for me. 5. Greg didn't mention space. Your baggage, if behind the pilot, has to be stowed to miss pulleys, control rods or tubes, bellcranks, cables, etc., and make SURE it always does. You will want to be able to look at all these things for inspection, so your baggage stowage compartment needs to come apart. Webbing is one answer. An inspection door that hinges down from under the fuze is another. Corky did that on Oscar's plane, and I plan that, too. 6. You can stow things like maps, gloves, logbook, etc., several places, but a tent, sleeping bag, sutcase, etc., are mostly ruled out if a passenger is involved. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: rubber314chicken >Sent: Jun 22, 2008 11:08 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment > > > >horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote: >> How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, and duffle >> in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots of ideas >> on the flight line. >> Dick >> --- > > >that is about what I plan on carrying, but for two people, so its not like I can throw it in the front cockpit. > >and fyi, I planned on making the front stick removable, and there are not going to be front rudder pedals for weight reasons (and unless they have a license, I wouldn't want them to be trying slips and stuff in the plane), so that is space that can be used. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189066#189066 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:57 AM PST US From: "zharvey@bellsouth.net" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment Tim. Very good post. I agree, he needs a different airplane. Gene N502R Original Message: ----------------- From: Tim Willis timothywillis@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment Baggage is a problem. If you are planning on a passenger, full fuel and 60 pounds of baggage, you need a different plane, for several reasons: 1. That is going to put you at a high gross weight. When Chuck Gantzer flies cross-country, he disconnects all controls in the front and carefully stows his baggage. Still, he limits his load to about 25 pounds, for improved flying. 2. Generally, in a Piet, it's either a passenger OR baggage. However, as you know, the design allows you to have baggage either in the center wing top or in the space right behind the firewall-- wherever you do NOT have a fuel tank. Anything else is a stretch. 3. Your passenger can only have so much around him or her. How would the passenger get in and out with baggage underfoot? It's hard enough without encumberances. 4. Greg is right about the CG. Anything behind the pilot is in the wrong place. I am trying to accommodate 6 more pounds for a pair of boots back there, and the math does not work well for me. 5. Greg didn't mention space. Your baggage, if behind the pilot, has to be stowed to miss pulleys, control rods or tubes, bellcranks, cables, etc., and make SURE it always does. You will want to be able to look at all these things for inspection, so your baggage stowage compartment needs to come apart. Webbing is one answer. An inspection door that hinges down from under the fuze is another. Corky did that on Oscar's plane, and I plan that, too. 6. You can stow things like maps, gloves, logbook, etc., several places, but a tent, sleeping bag, sutcase, etc., are mostly ruled out if a passenger is involved. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: rubber314chicken >Sent: Jun 22, 2008 11:08 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment > > > >horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote: >> How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, and duffle >> in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots of ideas >> on the flight line. >> Dick >> --- > > >that is about what I plan on carrying, but for two people, so its not like I can throw it in the front cockpit. > >and fyi, I planned on making the front stick removable, and there are not going to be front rudder pedals for weight reasons (and unless they have a license, I wouldn't want them to be trying slips and stuff in the plane), so that is space that can be used. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189066#189066 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft Windows and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment From: "rubber314chicken" then what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it at about 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be built in a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of the one piece wing), and is economical to build and fly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189095#189095 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:37 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Couple cowling questions From: "MikeD" Rick, you having some posting problems or what??? :P -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189104#189104 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:20 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment One idea for baggage that I have seen used on the Fly-Baby is a cylindrical pod type satchel that attaches to the bottom of the fuselage at CG like a drop tank. The Fly-Baby design of this pod provides enough room for an overnight bag. I have seen items like a prop bough at a fly-market carried lashed to the lift struts snug up to the fuselage on parasol wing aircraft. I suppose if some one was smart you could create some sort of cylindrical tube stuffed w/ your bare essentials lashed to the struts in this manner. As for the Jodel, have you looked at the Falconar F-11-3? http://members.shaw.ca/falconark/FA/f11e.htm http://members.shaw.ca/falconark/FA/FSeries.htm This is a Chris Falconar variant of the Jodel D-11 by . It will fly nicely on 65 hp. The F11-3 is a folding wing version of the D-11. And though many report the trouble of the complexity of the folding wing mechanism not worth the hassle it is a way to build the wing in sections. Some have done this and only upon completion did they delete the folding wing mechanism and made the outer panels fixed. Falconar' variant is also easier to build than the original Jodel as the wing washout built in to the spar in the Jodel is accomplished in the Falconar via rib placement on a straight box spar. Michael Silvius Falconar F-12 w/ Mazda rotary in progress ----- Original Message ----- From: "rubber314chicken" > > then what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it at about 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be built in a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of the one piece wing), and is economical to build and fly. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:09 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment That is the $40.00 question.... - In my application, I have made the pietenpol wider for my dimensions and fo r my weight. Being 6'0" and in good shape (270lbs) I have made some-forwa rd changes-for my W/B calculations. For example, my tank is header design ed with 10-12 gallons and 5/32 aluminum which will help offset some of my w eight. as for my front cockpit, Greg has it right on the money.....removabl e forward stick and disconnect rudder pedals for some storage with no passe nger for my flying demands. So, use the 6 P's before you decide to dive int o the project and find out later on this is not the plane for you....(Piss poor planning = piss poor performance)...or something like that... - Please take no offense as these post are only an "opinion" and not to distr act nor chase away anyone who seeks to build a pietenpol. Besides.....I am the sites only village idiot and my questions have many pondering for days. ...even years.... Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP - --- On Sun, 6/22/08, rubber314chicken wrote: From: rubber314chicken Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment then what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it at about 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be b uilt in a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of th e one piece wing), and is economical to build and fly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189095#189095 ============0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:40 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Pietenpol-List: information about cable rubbing.... Pieters..... - I would like to visit with the gentleman who was interested in preventing t he cables from rubbing on the front half of the horizontal stabilizer. Can that person email me.... Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP - =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:22 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: information about cable rubbing.... Kenneth, Just a note,,,the cables only rub on the leading edge at rest. While flying, they are up and clear. Thank you Walt Evans NX140DL "Let's Legalize Freedom" ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: Pietenpol Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 4:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: information about cable rubbing.... Pieters..... I would like to visit with the gentleman who was interested in preventing the cables from rubbing on the front half of the horizontal stabilizer. Can that person email me.... Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" Ken, I. Like the 6 Ps concept... I think I spend the majority of my build time in the planning phase trying desperately not to screw it up! John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment That is the $40.00 question.... In my application, I have made the pietenpol wider for my dimensions and for my weight. Being 6'0" and in good shape (270lbs) I have made someforward changesfor my W/B calculations. For example, my tank is header designed with 10-12 gallons and 5/32 aluminum which will help offset some of my weight. as for my front cockpit, Greg has it right on the money.....removable forward stick and disconnect rudder pedals for some storage with no passenger for my flying demands. So, use the 6 P's before you decide to dive into the project and find out later on this is not the plane for you....(Piss poor planning = piss poor performance)...or something like that... Please take no offense as these post are only an "opinion" and not to distract nor chase away anyone who seeks to build a pietenpol. Besides.....I am the sites only village idiot and my questions have many pondering for days....even years.... Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --- On Sun, 6/22/08, rubber314chicken wrote: From: rubber314chicken Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment From: "rubber314chicken" Well, doing some math, being very conservative in estimates (such as spruce being 50lbs/ft^3 and so forth) I came out with a useful load of 460, which would allow for two 170 lb people, 12 gallons of gas, and then 40 lbs on to of that. I think with some more careful thought and planning I might be able to make this work. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189118#189118 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" K2 one man ship made of wood and goes like krazy John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "rubber314chicken" To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment then what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it at about 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be built in a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of the one piece wing), and is economical to build and fly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189095#189095 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:49 PM PST US From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cowling Questions This is the message Rick Holland has been trying to send to the list. I have cutout my "cardboard cowling", as shown on the famous Mike Cuy video (see attached), ready to order some more aluminum sheet, and have a couple questions. First, far behind the firewall does the back edge of your cowling go (overlap)? Second, how large of an opening did you leave at the bottom of cowling (if any) for hot air to escape? Third, as far as alternative paint for aluminum, I know PolyFiber or Randolph aircraft paint is the best way to go but I a Latex kind of guy (which is what I am painting the fabric with). Has anyone had any luck painting a cowling with something besides aircraft or two part epoxy paint? Spray on Latex? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rick Hollands Cowling Questions From: "Catdesigns" This is the message Rick Holland has been trying to send to the list. I have cutout my "cardboard cowling", as shown on the famous Mike Cuy video (see attached), ready to order some more aluminum sheet, and have a couple questions. First, far behind the firewall does the back edge of your cowling go (overlap)? Second, how large of an opening did you leave at the bottom of cowling (if any) for hot air to escape? Third, as far as alternative paint for aluminum, I know PolyFiber or Randolph aircraft paint is the best way to go but I a Latex kind of guy (which is what I am painting the fabric with). Has anyone had any luck painting a cowling with something besides aircraft or two part epoxy paint? Spray on Latex? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189123#189123 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2432_593.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2431_739.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2430_411.jpg ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:09 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment Fly-Baby baggage pod http://www.bowersflybaby.com/bowers/a2a.jpg Michael ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:07 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Couple cowling questions Yes, but Chris got it posted for me. do not archive On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 2:01 PM, MikeD wrote: > > Rick, you having some posting problems or what??? :P > > -------- > Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189104#189104 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:55 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: re: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment Center section baggage as shown in this photo? it has been done before. Michael ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment From: "rubber314chicken" silvius(at)gwi.net wrote: > Fly-Baby baggage pod > > http://www.bowersflybaby.com/bowers/a2a.jpg > > Michael thanks for the pic. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189138#189138 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment From: "rubber314chicken" silvius(at)gwi.net wrote: > Center section baggage as shown in this photo? > > it has been done before. > > Michael I'm just curios about how big the space would be... what is the height of the spars, and the maximum height in the wing? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189144#189144 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:34 PM PST US From: "G. Robert Stetson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet To those who question the wisdom of making long trips in a Piet style airplane, I always ask "Why not?". Remember, a long trip is just a bunch of short ones end-to-end. My longest ride was from Marlborough, MA (about 30 miles west of Boston) to Portland, OR in an Aeronca 7AC Champ with another guy from the airport. What could be more fun than two guys that get along well together in an antique airplane headed west with each carrying a CVS bag full of clean underwear. We each took our oldest, most worn out underwear so the payload got lighter as we approached the Rockies. The entire trip was made at less than 3000 AGL and was done with maps. No GPS. No electrical system. Handheld radio that was used only when we were in the vicinity of an airport we intended to use. We landed at two towered fields the whole trip and only because it was necessary. The first was Casper, WY and we stopped there because we needed to leave from there on our leg to Rock Springs with full tanks. The second towered field was the final destination. I have made three trips from Marlborough, MA to Lock Haven PA and back for the annual Piper fly-in in my J3 Cub, twice alone and once with a passenger. Not an issue. It just takes a while. You may have seen my Cub in Flying magazine. It's unique in that it's red with cream trim as opposed to the boring black on yellow. The point is, there are two reasons to get into an airplane to go somewhere: (1) you want to go flying and end up somewhere else and (2) you want to go somewhere else and choose to get there in an airplane. If the reason is to go flying, try low and slow. It's more fun and there are lots of neat things to see on the way. Also, it's harder to outfly your maps and forward visibility if you are low and slow. If the reason is to get somewhere and you want to use an airplane, buy a Skyhawk and put a GPS receiver in it. Maybe even an autopilot so you can kill time by reading or taking a nap. Again, cross country in a Piet? Why not? Don't knock it unless you've tried it. GRS ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:48 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment Don't have the number in front of me but I am guessing front spar is 4&1/2 to 5 inches tall. ( my plans are for the Grega) the attached photos should give you a notion of capacity. if a fellow can't get what he needs in that space for a trip he might as well buy an airline ticket. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "rubber314chicken" > > I'm just curios about how big the space would be... what is the height of the spars, and the maximum height in the wing? ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:43 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it The most memorable trip I have flown was a cross country in a piet. Centerburg Ohio to poplar Grove ILL in 2006. Learned more about flying on that trip than all my 200 hrs before that. No GPS, No Radios except handheld and only a sectional chart and wristwatch for navigation. That is "Real flying". I got low a couple times to double check the name painted on the water towers to make sure I was on track. Had my 1st precationary landing for engine problems, the worst cross wind I ever landed in, in a taildragger (27 gust to 36 kts) at Howell New Lenox Airport in ILL, which is no longer there. Which brings up a good argument for having a CURRENT sectional chart, new lennox was closed 2 weeks after I landed there to make room for houses, and I am damn glad it was still there. I learned that weather briefers are very often wrong about forecasts, even if only 1 hour into the future. And the final lesson of that trip was It takes lots more planning and effort to trailer an airplane back from the previously mentioned cross country flight in a pietenpol. The more time that goes by the more memerable that trip becomes. I can't wait to do the first part (the flying part) all over again next month, OH71 to C37 Brodhead WI. Shad "G. Robert Stetson" wrote: To those who question the wisdom of making long trips in a Piet style airplane, I always ask "Why not?". Remember, a long trip is just a bunch of short ones end-to-end. My longest ride was from Marlborough, MA (about 30 miles west of Boston) to Portland, OR in an Aeronca 7AC Champ with another guy from the airport. What could be more fun than two guys that get along well together in an antique airplane headed west with each carrying a CVS bag full of clean underwear. We each took our oldest, most worn out underwear so the payload got lighter as we approached the Rockies. The entire trip was made at less than 3000 AGL and was done with maps. No GPS. No electrical system. Handheld radio that was used only when we were in the vicinity of an airport we intended to use. We landed at two towered fields the whole trip and only because it was necessary. The first was Casper, WY and we stopped there because we needed to leave from there on our leg to Rock Springs with full tanks. The second towered field was the final destination. I have made three trips from Marlborough, MA to Lock Haven PA and back for the annual Piper fly-in in my J3 Cub, twice alone and once with a passenger. Not an issue. It just takes a while. You may have seen my Cub in Flying magazine. It's unique in that it's red with cream trim as opposed to the boring black on yellow. The point is, there are two reasons to get into an airplane to go somewhere: (1) you want to go flying and end up somewhere else and (2) you want to go somewhere else and choose to get there in an airplane. If the reason is to go flying, try low and slow. It's more fun and there are lots of neat things to see on the way. Also, it's harder to outfly your maps and forward visibility if you are low and slow. If the reason is to get somewhere and you want to use an airplane, buy a Skyhawk and put a GPS receiver in it. Maybe even an autopilot so you can kill time by reading or taking a nap. Again, cross country in a Piet? Why not? Don't knock it unless you've tried it. GRS ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:08 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rick Hollands Cowling Questions, Paint Rick, Dad used automotive arcrilic enamel on all his metal parts. !st it was primed with an etch primer then a couple coats of the enamel. Looks good, and probably cheaper, eaiser and faster to get a color match to your latex exteior house paint. Latex is the same thing dad used on the fabric. However the auto paint is probably just as toxic as the other paints, (randolph, or poly fiber) so a resporator or fresh air mask is a must. After 5 hrs of spraying, wearing the "proper" resporator, I had blue buggers for a couple days, (hope I didn't shorten my life too much. Shad Catdesigns wrote: This is the message Rick Holland has been trying to send to the list. I have cutout my "cardboard cowling", as shown on the famous Mike Cuy video (see attached), ready to order some more aluminum sheet, and have a couple questions. First, far behind the firewall does the back edge of your cowling go (overlap)? Second, how large of an opening did you leave at the bottom of cowling (if any) for hot air to escape? Third, as far as alternative paint for aluminum, I know PolyFiber or Randolph aircraft paint is the best way to go but I a Latex kind of guy (which is what I am painting the fabric with). Has anyone had any luck painting a cowling with something besides aircraft or two part epoxy paint? Spray on Latex? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189123#189123 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2432_593.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2431_739.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2430_411.jpg ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:40 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet Good post there ,Bob. Nice to see you on the list here. I hope you will be able to make it to Brodhead this year. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "G. Robert Stetson" Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 5:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet > > > To those who question the wisdom of making long trips in a Piet style > airplane, I always ask "Why not?". Remember, a long trip is just a > bunch of short ones end-to-end. My longest ride was from Marlborough, > MA (about 30 miles west of Boston) to Portland, OR in an Aeronca 7AC > Champ with another guy from the airport. What could be more fun than > two guys that get along well together in an antique airplane headed west > with each carrying a CVS bag full of clean underwear. We each took our > oldest, most worn out underwear so the payload got lighter as we > approached the Rockies. The entire trip was made at less than 3000 AGL > and was done with maps. No GPS. No electrical system. Handheld radio > that was used only when we were in the vicinity of an airport we > intended to use. We landed at two towered fields the whole trip and > only because it was necessary. The first was Casper, WY and we stopped > there because we needed to leave from there on our leg to Rock Springs > with full tanks. The second towered field was the final destination. > > I have made three trips from Marlborough, MA to Lock Haven PA and back > for the annual Piper fly-in in my J3 Cub, twice alone and once with a > passenger. Not an issue. It just takes a while. You may have seen my > Cub in Flying magazine. It's unique in that it's red with cream trim as > opposed to the boring black on yellow. > > The point is, there are two reasons to get into an airplane to go > somewhere: (1) you want to go flying and end up somewhere else and (2) > you want to go somewhere else and choose to get there in an airplane. > If the reason is to go flying, try low and slow. It's more fun and > there are lots of neat things to see on the way. Also, it's harder to > outfly your maps and forward visibility if you are low and slow. If the > reason is to get somewhere and you want to use an airplane, buy a > Skyhawk and put a GPS receiver in it. Maybe even an autopilot so you > can kill time by reading or taking a nap. > > Again, cross country in a Piet? Why not? Don't knock it unless you've > tried it. > > GRS > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:42 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale I have been dreading this, but it's time that I put my Piet NX2RN up for sale. I will be posting it on Barnstormers later in the week after re checking everything. My new Piet now has over 30 hours on it and I just cant fly 2 at once. I am pricing at $12,500. This is the short fuse w/ A-65. Plane is based at Osceola, Wi. OEO I will have details assembled in the next couple of days. Anyone interested can find me at horzpool@goldengate.net or call 651-638-0793 Dick N ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment From: "rubber314chicken" okay. So I guess no I just have to decide which would be baggage. I'm thinking the wing will be for fuel. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189193#189193 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" Nothing like getting low to read the signs of navigation " I have always had a soft spot in my heart for the town of Poath......... Poth! Poth......." Doc Dillhoffer As I have heard it said: all things in life can be answered and attributed to TGWP. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: shad bell To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it The most memorable trip I have flown was a cross country in a piet. Centerburg Ohio to poplar Grove ILL in 2006. Learned more about flying on that trip than all my 200 hrs before that. No GPS, No Radios except handheld and only a sectional chart and wristwatch for navigation. That is "Real flying". I got low a couple times to double check the name painted on the water towers to make sure I was on track. Had my 1st precationary landing for engine problems, the worst cross wind I ever landed in, in a taildragger (27 gust to 36 kts) at Howell New Lenox Airport in ILL, which is no longer there. Which brings up a good argument for having a CURRENT sectional chart, new lennox was closed 2 weeks after I landed there to make room for houses, and I am damn glad it was still there. I learned that weather briefers are very often wrong about forecasts, even if only 1 hour into the future. And the final lesson of that trip was It takes lots more planning and effortto trailer an airplane back from the previously mentioned cross country flight in a pietenpol. The more time that goes by the more memerable that trip becomes. I can't wait to do the first part (the flying part) all over again next month, OH71 to C37 Brodhead WI. Shad To those who question the wisdom of making long trips in a Piet style airplane, I always ask "Why not?". Remember, a long trip is just a bunch of short ones end-to-end. My longest ride was from Marlborough, MA (about 30 miles west of Boston) to Portland, OR in an Aeronca 7AC Champ with another guy from the airport. What could be more fun than two guys that get along well together in an antique airplane headed west with each carrying a CVS bag full of clean underwear. We each took our oldest, most worn out underwear so the payload got lighter as we approached the Rockies. The entire trip was made at less than 3000 AGL and was done with maps. No GPS. No electrical system. Handheld radio that was used only when we were in the vicinity of an airport we intended to use. We landed at two towered fields the whole trip and only because it was necessary. The first was Casper, WY and we stopped there because we needed to leave from there on our leg to Rock Springs with full tanks. The second towered field was the final destination. I have made three trips from Marlborough, MA to Lock Haven PA and back for the annual Piper fly-in in my J3 Cub, twice alone and once with a passenger. Not an issue. It just takes a while. You may have seen my ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" Dick You been flying around with a forflusher feeding you performance and style so she can work her ways with you The Stunt King John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Dick Navratil" To: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale I have been dreading this, but it's time that I put my Piet NX2RN up for sale. I will be posting it on Barnstormers later in the week after re checking everything. My new Piet now has over 30 hours on it and I just cant fly 2 at once. I am pricing at $12,500. This is the short fuse w/ A-65. Plane is based at Osceola, Wi. OEO I will have details assembled in the next couple of days. Anyone interested can find me at horzpool@goldengate.net or call 651-638-0793 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:21 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't forget it Life and The Great Waldo Pepper Answer to the recent message thread of spousal support and aviation/ Pietenpol: "I knew she wasn't worth top billing." See you all in about a month. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Jun 22, 2008, at 9:10 PM, John Recine wrote: > > > Nothing like getting low to read the signs of navigation > > " I have always had a soft spot in my heart for the town of > Poath......... Poth! Poth......." > > Doc Dillhoffer > > As I have heard it said: all things in life can be answered and > attributed to TGWP. > > John > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: shad bell > > Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:31:19 > To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cross Country in a Piet, You won't > forget it > > > The most memorable trip I have flown was a cross country in a piet. > Centerburg Ohio to poplar Grove ILL in 2006. Learned more about > flying on that trip than all my 200 hrs before that. No GPS, No > Radios except handheld and only a sectional chart and wristwatch for > navigation. That is "Real flying". I got low a couple times to > double check the name painted on the water towers to make sure I was > on track. Had my 1st precationary landing for engine problems, the > worst cross wind I ever landed in, in a taildragger (27 gust to 36 > kts) at Howell New Lenox Airport in ILL, which is no longer there. > Which brings up a good argument for having a CURRENT sectional > chart, new lennox was closed 2 weeks after I landed there to make > room for houses, and I am damn glad it was still there. I learned > that weather briefers are very often wrong about forecasts, even if > only 1 hour into the future. And the final lesson of that trip was > It takes lots more planning and effort to trailer ! > an airplane back from the previously mentioned cross country flight > in a pietenpol. The more time that goes by the more memerable that > trip becomes. I can't wait to do the first part (the flying part) > all over again next month, OH71 to C37 Brodhead WI. > > Shad > > "G. Robert Stetson" wrote: --> Pietenpol- > List message posted by: "G. Robert Stetson" > > To those who question the wisdom of making long trips in a Piet style > airplane, I always ask "Why not?". Remember, a long trip is just a > bunch of short ones end-to-end. My longest ride was from Marlborough, > MA (about 30 miles west of Boston) to Portland, OR in an Aeronca 7AC > Champ with another guy from the airport. What could be more fun than > two guys that get along well together in an antique airplane headed > west > with each carrying a CVS bag full of clean underwear. We each took our > oldest, most worn out underwear so the payload got lighter as we > approached the Rockies. The entire trip was made at less than 3000 AGL > and was done with maps. No GPS. No electrical system. Handheld radio > that was used only when we were in the vicinity of an airport we > intended to use. We landed at two towered fields the whole trip and > only because it was necessary. The first was Casper, WY and we stopped > there because we needed to leave from there on our leg to Rock Springs > with full tanks. The second towered field was the final destination. > > I have made three trips from Marlborough, MA to Lock Haven PA and back > for the annual Piper fly-in in my J3 Cub, twice alone and once with a > passenger. Not an issue. It just takes a while. You may have seen my > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:28 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment I'm not sure what everyone else's weight and balance sheets look like, but I'll discuss the one for 41CC relative to baggage and I will also offer to run "what-ifs" with the Excel spreadsheet for my airplane in various configurations. 1. Almost any combination of pilot and passenger that will physically be able to stuff themselves into the cockpits, will be able to fly. Slightly more of a problem if a really large person manages to stuff into the rear cockpit, but the front passenger is virtually on the CG and makes little or no difference in CG, although they do affect gross weight. With that being said, your best bet in carrying baggage is to put it in the front cockpit. Hands down. With my weight of 150 lbs. in the rear cockpit, I can put at least that amount of baggage in the front cockpit with no worries, if I can fit it in there. Which I doubt that I can do ;o) But if I could secure it in the front cockpit, I could carry a pop tent, duffel bag, and some other gear for a couple of days to maybe a week's trip with no problems whatsoever. 2. Anything aft of the rear seat is going to be problematic. Most Piets are tail heavy to begin with unless they have a nice heavy engine up front, and adding baggage aft of the rear seat is tricky. I think Corky did the initial W&B on 41CC with a max of 15 lbs. of baggage (in the helmet box behind the rear seat), but since the rebuild and repairs all I have back there is a seatback pouch for a spare helmet and goggles, a few small tools, and my traveling papers- maybe two pounds. I can't fit anything more than that back there and don't want to, except maybe a quart or two of oil. 3. If you put the fuel in the wing, either in wing tank(s) or centersection tank, you'll have a great setup. The area ahead of the front cockpit "instrument panel" is where my fuel tank is, but if there were no fuel tank there I could fit the equivalent of 16 gallons of fuel there... certainly enough weight and probably enough volume to hold some camping gear and a duffel bag, even with a passenger. It's a large space and could be made to fit a lot of stuff. 4. If you don't want to put the fuel in the wings, build a wing locker or two and plan on carrying a step ladder or something like it to get up in there. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.