Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 07/30/08


Total Messages Posted: 25



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:58 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Michael Perez)
     2. 05:28 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Kip and Beth Gardner)
     3. 05:34 AM - Re: Re: Brodhead Photos (Bill Church)
     4. 05:36 AM - Re: Brodhead Photos (H RULE)
     5. 05:48 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper - One More Time (Phillips, Jack)
     6. 06:07 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Michael Silvius)
     7. 06:50 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Bill Church)
     8. 06:59 AM - Re: Riblett install (Pieti Lowell)
     9. 07:28 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Michael Perez)
    10. 07:49 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Michael Perez)
    11. 07:50 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (John Recine)
    12. 08:18 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Michael Perez)
    13. 09:08 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (John Recine)
    14. 09:14 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Bill Church)
    15. 10:06 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Michael Perez)
    16. 10:11 AM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Michael Perez)
    17. 01:09 PM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Michael Silvius)
    18. 02:41 PM - Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (Bill Church)
    19. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: Riblett install (Ken Chambers)
    20. 04:26 PM - Re: Waldo Pepper - One More Time (Gene & Tammy)
    21. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans (John Recine)
    22. 04:59 PM - Tail assembly (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
    23. 06:32 PM - Re: Tail assembly (Richard Schreiber)
    24. 07:34 PM - Re: Tail assembly (bcharvet@bellsouth.net)
    25. 10:03 PM - Re: Tail assembly ()
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:58:55 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    Thanks Oscar, a very well written responce. IF I decide to do the Corvair, I will have to get these mentioned books. I see they are quite pricy, but w hat others are available?- Machining either hub won't be an issue, I just wanted to get the best suited part that I could make that has already been proven. (Rather then make up my own fron scratch.) Mine will more then lik ely be 6061-T6 aluminum. Nothing has been decided...just gathering intel. a nd you have been of great help. --- On Tue, 7/29/08, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote: From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans <taildrags@hotmail.com> Mike; Doesn't look to me like anybody actually answered your question about the differences between the two hubs (Pietenpol and Wynne) for the Corvair conversion, so I'll throw in my two cents' worth and see if I can add anything. I have the Pietenpol drawings and the hub sheets are dated November of 1972 . The material indicated for the hub is "aluminum casting". The design pioneered the use of a "safety shaft" through the center of the hub into a threaded 3/4" deep bore in the center of the crankshaft end (nose). The safety shaft is called out to be a 5" long, 1" dia. 4130 or 4140 steel rod, or 1" dia. by .250" wall 4130 steel tube, threaded 18 threads to the inch. The hub is mounted to the crankshaft flange using sta ndard Chevy 11/32" capscrews, 1" long. This requires that the holes in the hub be bored very deep into it and that a long, thinwall socket be used to tighten them. The flange itself has a standard bolt pattern and is .438" thick at the prop flange. Overall length is given as 2.875". I say all of this to contrast this hub to the Wynne hub, which is quite a b it beefier but is obviously an adaptation and improvement on Mr. Pietenpol's hub. It is 3.5" long with a 1.1" thick prop flange, and is machined from 2024 aluminum, but William says it could be made from 6061. William's design uses a safety shaft that is 6" long because the hub is a bit heavier, longer, and stouter- and the safety shaft threads 1" into the crank nose rather than 3/4" as in the Pietenpol. The threads are 14 threads per inch (coarser than the Pietenpol). While the Pietenpol hub bod y is slightly tapered, the Wynne design is straight, again making it beefier. William's preferred method of mounting to the crank flange is through the use of what William calls "hybrid studs", which are threaded with the Chevy 11/32" on one end and a more standard 3/8-24 thread on the nut end that holds the hub to the crank flange. Here's what William says about the Pietenpol hub in his manual, of which I have three different editions dating back more than 10 years: "This method was pioneered by Bernie [sic] Pietenpol in the early 1960s. Although I kno w of no failures of Bernie's way of doing it, my method is a little different an d uses different materials, but the concept is the same." He also says, "The Pietenpol method is brought up for technical reference only. If you are building an exact replica of Bernie's engine, his son Don is the best source of information on it. Years ago, a number of cast aluminum hubs wer e made to Bernie's drawings. Some of these are still floating around for sale. These are light duty units suited only to the modest flying done by Pietenpols.". My take-away: make your hub using the Pietenpol or the Wynne drawings, but ALWAYS use a safety shaft and ALWAYS use at least 6061 aluminum, NOT any ca st material. To my non-machinist's eye, the two hubs require about the same amount of machine work to produce but the Wynne hub has no tapers to cut an d is stronger in some important areas, and is a little less than an inch or so longer. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:28:36 AM PST US
    From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    Mike, No, William Wynne is basically the only person out there doing Corvair work & although it is a chronic problem getting in touch with him & getting him to ship parts, his work - both intellectual, and the parts he makes - are top-notch. In a broader sense, I feel a need to warn you against the "that's too pricey" attitude. First, you will be spreading your work out over a number of years in most cases, so there will only be a few times when you will be putting out large amounts for big-ticket items - the rest is spread out over time. Secondly, I've found that paying for knowledge is the best value - you will avoid costly mistakes - so suck it up & buy the best information available if you indeed have to pay for it. In addition to Wynne's manual, you should also buy the Tony Bingelis books from EAA if you have not already done so. Finally, in terms of keeping costs down - learn to scrounge! There are good sources of lumber & plywood out there that are considerably cheaper than the aircraft suppliers & just as good for our purposes. Also, don't be afraid to let other builders, airport owners & pilots know what you are doing & don't be shy about mentioning things you need. Many of these folks are good leads to used parts & many are generous to a fault. I've been blessed with a complete Corvair engine, machine work on the Corvair, a set of Cleveland wheels, and a left-hand prop blank, just to mention a few things, simply because people who love flying knew what I was doing and gave these things to me. In a sense, you CAN build a Piet all by your lonesome, but it becomes much more affordable if you intentionally make it a 'community' project. At the rate I'm going, my payback to most of these folks will probably be giving their grandchildren rides at some date far in the future! Kip Gardner On Jul 30, 2008, at 7:55 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Thanks Oscar, a very well written responce. IF I decide to do the > Corvair, I will have to get these mentioned books. I see they are > quite pricy, but what others are available? Machining either hub > won't be an issue, I just wanted to get the best suited part that I > could make that has already been proven. (Rather then make up my > own fron scratch.) Mine will more then likely be 6061-T6 aluminum. > Nothing has been decided...just gathering intel. and you have been > of great help. > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:34:57 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Subject: Re: Brodhead Photos
    Hi Lowell, Thanks for the clarification regarding the new engine on your Piet. I have corrected the description that goes with the photo. As I understand it, the Ford B was an improved 1932 version of the Model A engine, producing about 25% more horsepower, among other improvements. Did I get that right? I did see your Piet fly, and it seemed to be zipping through the sky. I guess that would be partly attributed to the powerplant/propellor and partly to the airfoil. I had heard that Frank had installed last year's Lambert on his Piet, and was really impressed when I saw a photo of it a few weeks ago. I had hoped he would be able to bring it to Brodhead this year. I would have to guess that you must be the only person on earth that could claim to have attended all 33 Brodhead fly-ins with a Pietenpol. What an accomplishment. Bill C.


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:36:13 AM PST US
    From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: Brodhead Photos
    Great pics;thanks very much!Wish I could have been there.=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>=0ATo: pi etenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 9:10:31 PM=0ASubj ect: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Photos=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>=0A=0AFor those who couldn't mak e it, I've posted a few shots I snapped at this year's gathering at Brodhea d. They can be viewed here:=0A=0Ahttp://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGall eryList2.cfm?AlbumID=331=0A=0ABill C.=0A=0AP.S.- If the link doesn't wo rk, just go to www.mykitplane.com, then go to Photo gallery, then scroll do wn the page to my Albums and pick Brodhead 2008.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this to pic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195671# =========================0A ============


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:48:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Waldo Pepper - One More Time
    From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
    The Great Waldo Pepper is available through Amazon. New or Used. No need to risk copyright infingement. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Verthein Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More Time <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com> I haven't seen this movie since it was new in the theatre probably 30 years ago. My quest to find a copy turned up nothing locally. Then, it turns out my Mom had it on VHS. She actually wrote an article about it 25 years or so ago. Since my folks don't even HAVE a VHS player anymore, she gave it to me. I have dubbed it to DVD. If there is anyone on the list who hasn't seen the movie who would like to I sell send a DVD to anyone who wants one for no charge at all. Just don't expect any fancy packaging. And yes, to those of you with scruples who worry about such things I'm sure this is some horrid copyright violation. but since it's not available for purchase new, used copies are hard to come by (and often expensive) and I really doubt anyone at the studio, or any of the performers gets much for it when a used copy changes hands at some insane collector price anyway, and heck, I'm offering them FREE, I'm not gonna worry about it. If Mr. Redford would like to call me and ask for his share, more power to him. So, that's the offer. Probably best to e-mail me of list if you'd like one: minoxphotographer@yahoo.com Tim in Bovey _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:07:44 AM PST US
    From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius@gwi.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    Oscar: For what it is worth I have an original Pietenpol designed hub with the deep bolt holes. I paid 25$ for it on eBay with a 4809 crank that I am told was drilled by Bernard himself. I am no expert but it looks to be turned from a billet and not cast. I have no proof that is so. Perhaps someone knows how to check for this. I am not thrilled about the deep bolt holes as this only leaves les than 5/8ths meat for the original longest Corvair bolts to hold on, and no way to safety wire the bolts once torqued to speck. I am aware that a great deal if not all of the holding power comes from the safety shaft in this design thus the bolts are effectively only under shear and used for drive purposes. I contemplated making a larger diameter hole only 3/4 of an inch deep or so, effectively creating a shoulder that would allow the use of longer bolts with a washer but there really is not enough meat left and the resulting shoulder would be no more than 1/8th in width. I am told the original hub as designed by BH Pietenpol is available undrilled from Vi so it is possible to drill and use WW's hybrid studs without the deep bolt holes. Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> > > > Mike; > > Doesn't look to me like anybody actually answered your question about the differences between the two hubs (Pietenpol and Wynne) for the Corvair conversion, so I'll throw in my two cents' worth and see if I can add anything. >


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:50:52 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Subject: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude. Some complain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why should I spend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much to print". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59 (including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $40 (or more) every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every month, which adds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in your average vehicle will get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatre with a companion is going to set you back half the price of a manual. Add popcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picture a couple of hundred dollars is probably less than 2% of the total cost of the entire plane. In my mind, this isn't the place to look for savings. If you are just curious about what the plans look like, or what exactly is contained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expensive. But if you are seriously considering building either, the price is quite reasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far you get. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're not just paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author for sharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years of hard work. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm a bit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in my project (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safe ways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, I prefer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That's why I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought a conversion manual directly from William Wynne. I still have not committed to going the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not regret buying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant. Bill C. (stepping down off the soapbox, now)


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:59:36 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Riblett install
    From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
    Hi Curious: Couldn't help noticing your concern, I have been in touch with H Riblett since the very early 90s and I sent him the Piet wing specs, he then gave me a complete overview of, Piet, 4412(Luscomb) and two recommended Riblett designs, GA 30- U- 612, plus a thicker design, My second Piet had a 4412, clipped 2 ft. A great performer. When I installed a Werner 145 on my Blue Piet it would only go 105 MPH @ 80% throttle, I go much faster with the Werner in another airplane, so I decided to go a head and build the 612,( not to be confused with the 612 in Riblett's book ) I clipped the wing two feet, made a 3 piece, 6" hi spars, added the spacer on the spar to rib, and built it the same as the Pitt. It is close to 5/8" higher and has a 3/8 undercamber. With testing the comparison of the Piet to the Riblett wings, using the Lambert 90HP engine, there is a very big difference. Even with the shorter wing, you wont believe the glide ratio, 42MPH stall, 600 FPM climb, and flat out speed 108 MPH. The Piet wing has an air separation on the under side at the rear 20% of the wing, as per Riblitts computer read-out. By the way the wing will pull close to 2.5 Gs at 120 MPH at the bottom of a loop. Got a lot of answers, if you need an opinion. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195735#195735


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:28:40 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    Wow, LOT's of assumptions there!- As I could go into the whole "You don't know me" speech and turn this thread into a useless waste of time and effo rt, I won't. My quest is to learn what I can before making any final decisi ons. I have been involved with this whole world of plane building for a who pping 2 weeks! Not only am I gathering info. on things that are useful, I a m gathering knowledge of the personalities on this board. It's all good. Se ems like I hit a nerve with the pricey book comment, maybe it is worth it, maybe not. That is why I am here...to find out what is what. How am I to kn ow that this is the ONLY good book on this type of subject? How am I to kno w there isn't others with the same info for 1/2 the price? Two weeks into t he project and all I want is info.- This seems to be a good place to get it...attitudes aside. I appreciate the responses, it's all good info. --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote: From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude.-So me complain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why should I spend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much to pri nt". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59 (incl uding shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $40 (or more)-every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every month, which adds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in-your average vehi cle-will get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie thea tre with a companion is going to set you back-half the price of a manual. Add popcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall pi cture a couple of hundred dollars is probably less-than 2% of the total c ost of the entire plane.-In my mind, this isn't the place to look for sav ings. If you are just curious about what the plans look like, or what exactly is contained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expe nsive. But if you are seriously considering building either, the price is q uite reasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far you get. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're n ot just paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author for sharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years of hard work. - Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm a bit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in my pr oject (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safe ways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, I pr efer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That's w hy I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought a con version manual directly-from William Wynne. I still have not committed to going the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not regret buying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant. - Bill C. (stepping down off the soapbox, now) -


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:49:30 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    Yeah. Still think it's pricey. --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net> wrote: From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans Mike, No, William Wynne is basically the only person out there doing Corvair work & although it is a chronic problem getting in touch with him & getting him to ship parts, his work - both intellectual, and the parts he makes - are top-notch. - In a broader sense, I feel a need to warn you against the "that's too price y" attitude. -First, you will be spreading your work out over a number of years in most cases, so there will only be a few times when you will be pu tting out large amounts for big-ticket items - the rest is spread out over time. - Secondly, I've found that paying for knowledge is the best value - you will avoid costly mistakes - so suck it up & buy the best information available if you indeed have to pay for it. In addition to Wynne's manual, -you sh ould also buy the Tony Bingelis books from EAA if you have not already done so. - Finally, in terms of keeping costs down - learn to scrounge! -There are g ood sources of lumber & plywood out there that are considerably cheaper tha n the aircraft suppliers & just as good for our purposes. -Also, don't be afraid to let other builders, airport owners & pilots know what you are do ing & don't be shy about mentioning things you need. -Many of these folks are good leads to used parts & many are generous to a fault. -I've been blessed with a complete Corvair engine, machine work on the Corvair, -a s et of Cleveland wheels, and a left-hand prop blank, just to mention a few t hings, simply because people who love flying knew what I was doing and gave these things to me. - In a sense, you CAN build a Piet all by your lonesome, but it becomes much more affordable if you intentionally make it a 'community' project. -At t he rate I'm going, my payback to most of these folks will probably be givin g their grandchildren rides at some date far in the future! Kip Gardner On Jul 30, 2008, at 7:55 AM, Michael Perez wrote: Thanks Oscar, a very well written responce. IF I decide to do the Corvair, I will have to get these mentioned books. I see they are quite pricy, but w hat others are available?- Machining either hub won't be an issue, I just wanted to get the best suited part that I could make that has already been proven. (Rather then make up my own fron scratch.) Mine will more then lik ely be 6061-T6 aluminum. Nothing has been decided...just gathering intel. a nd you have been of great help.


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:50:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    From: "John Recine" <AmsafetyC@aol.com>
    TWljaGFlbA0KDQpGb3Igd2hhdCBpdHMgd29ydGggSSBoYXZlIGJ1aWxkaW5nIGZvciAxIHllYXIg YW5kIDUgbW9udGhzLiBPdmVyIHRoYXQgcGVyaW9kIEkgY29uc2lkZXJlZCBtb3N0IGFsbCB0aGUg ZW5naW5lIGNob2ljZXMgc2V2ZXJhbCB0aW1lcyBhbmQgbWFueSBub3Qgb24gdGhlIGxpc3QuIA0K DQpJIGZpbmFsbHkgbWFkZSB0aGUgZGVjaXNpb24gYWJvdXQgYSBtb250aCBhZ28gYW5kIHdlbnQg d2l0aCB0aGUgTHljb21pbmcgMDIzNSBmb3IgbWFueSByZWFzb25zDQoNClBvaW50IGJlaW5nIHlv dSBzaG91bGQgY29uc2lkZXIgYWxsIGVuZ2luZSBvcHRpb25zIHdoaWxlIHlvdSBidWlsZCBhbmQg ZGVjaWRlIHdoZW4geW91IGdldCBjbG9zZSB0byBkZWZpbmluZyBhbmQgY29uc3RydWN0aW5nIHlv dXIgbW91bnQuIFRpbGwgdGhlbiBubyBuZWVkIHRvIHB1cmNoYXNlIGVuZ2luZSBzcGVjaWZpYyBi b29rcyBvciBtYXRlcmlhbHMuIA0KDQpZb3Ugd2lsbCBkbyB3ZWxsIHRvIHB1cmNoYXNlIHRoZSBU b255IGJlbmdlbGlzIHNlcmllcyBmb3Igc29saWQgYWR2aWNlIG9uIGFsbCB0aGUgYXNwZWN0cyBv ZiB0aGUgYnVpbGQgaW5jbHVkaW5nIGNvbnNpZGVyYXRpb25zIG9mIGVuZ2luZSBzZWxlY3Rpb24N Cg0KSWYgeW91J3JlIHNlcmlvdXMgYWJvdXQgZ2V0dGluZyBnb29kIHNvbGlkIGluZm8gYnV5IHRo 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    Message 12


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    Time: 08:18:10 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    I have heard good things about that series of books. Those are actually on my "to purchase" list. You hit the nail on the head...I am looking at all o ptions and trying to get a game plan in place. No need to buy books not rel ated to my engine. As I said multiple times, just gathering intel. for pros pects. It will be some time before I am ready to commit on an engine, but f or now, I will continue to learn what I can. Thanks for the reply! --- On Wed, 7/30/08, John Recine <AmsafetyC@aol.com> wrote: From: John Recine <AmsafetyC@aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans Michael For what its worth I have building for 1 year and 5 months. Over that perio d I considered most all the engine choices several times and many not on th e list. I finally made the decision about a month ago and went with the Lycoming 02 35 for many reasons Point being you should consider all engine options while you build and deci de when you get close to defining and constructing your mount. Till then no need to purchase engine specific books or materials. You will do well to purchase the Tony bengelis series for solid advice on a ll the aspects of the build including considerations of engine selection If you're serious about getting good solid info buy the Bengelis books from the EAA you will not be disapointed John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans Wow, LOT's of assumptions there!=C2- As I could go into the whole "You do n't know me" speech and turn this thread into a useless waste of time and e ffort, I won't. My quest is to learn what I can before making any final dec isions. I have been involved with this whole world of plane building for a whopping 2 weeks! Not only am I gathering info. on things that are useful, I am gathering knowledge of the personalities on this board. It's all good. Seems like I hit a nerve with the pricey book comment, maybe it is worth i t, maybe not. That is why I am here...to find out what is what. How am I to know that this is the ONLY good book on this type of subject? How am I to know there isn't others with the same info for 1/2 the price? Two weeks int o the project and all I want is info.=C2- This seems to be a good place t o get it...attitudes aside. I appreciate the responses, it's all good info. --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote: From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude.=C2 -Some complain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why shou ld I spend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much t o print". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59 (including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $4 0 (or more)=C2-every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every mont h, which adds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in=C2-your a verage vehicle=C2-will get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatre with a companion is going to set you back=C2-half the p rice of a manual. Add popcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picture a couple of hundred dollars is probably less=C2-th an 2% of the total cost of the entire plane.=C2-In my mind, this isn't th e place to look for savings. If you are just curious about what the plans l ook like, or what exactly is contained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expe nsive. But if you are seriously considering building either, the price is q uite reasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far you get. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're n ot just paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author for sharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years of hard work. =C2- Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm a bit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in my pr oject (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safe ways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, I pr efer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That's w hy I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought a con version manual directly=C2-from William Wynne. I still have not committed to going the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not reg ret buying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant. =C2- Bill C. (stepping down off the soapbox, now) 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =C2 =C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3 =93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8 ^>'=C2=ADzzh=9D=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9R=C3=87 =C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BEy=C2=ABn=C2 =AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6-=C3=AB=C2=A3=C3=98^=84=A2 =C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3=8B=C5=93 =C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5-=BAb=C2=A2p=C2 =AD=C3=88b=C2=BD=C3=A4=C5=BEj=C2=B7!=C5=92'=93-=EF=BD=C3 =AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3-=C2=A1j=C3=91@C=C3=A1=C2=A2=C3=9A,=C2 =AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3 =C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=AB h=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=98m=C2=B6=C5=B8 =C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2 =ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9F=C3=9A


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:08:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    From: "John Recine" <AmsafetyC@aol.com>
    WW91J3JlIHdlbGNvbWUuIEFjdHVhbGx5IGl0IHdhcyBUb255IHRoYXQgcG9pbnRlZCBtZSBtb3Jl IHRvd2FyZHMgdGhlIGx5Y29taW5nLiAgICAgDQpUaGUgaWRlYSBvZiBzcGVuZGluZyA1SyBwbHVz IG9uIGEgc3ViYXJ1IG9yIGEgY29ydmFpciBhbmQgc3RpbGwgaGF2ZSBhbiBhdXRvIGVuZ2luZSBh cyBvcHBvc2VkIHRvIHNwZW5kaW5nIGEgc2ltaWxhciBhbW91bnQgYW5kIGdldHRpbmcgYSBzb2xp ZCBBQyBjZXJ0aWZpZWQgZW5naW5lLiBJIGRlY2lkZWQgb24gdGhlIGx5Y29taW5nDQoNCkkgYW0g bm90IGtub2NraW5nIHRoZSBvdGhlcnMsIHRoZXkgZG8gaGF2ZSBhIGNlcnRhaW4gYXR0cmFjdGlv biBidXQgSSB3YXMgYWJsZSB0byBmaW5kIGEgbHljb21pbmcgdGhhdCBwdXQgbWUgaW4gdGhlIHNh bWUgcHJpY2UgcmFuZ2UNCg0KanVzdCByZWxhdGluZyBteSBleHBlcmllbmNlIGluIHRoZSBncmVh dCBlbmdpbmUgcXVlc3QNCg0KSm9obg0KU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZlcml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3MgQmxh Y2tCZXJyeQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogTWljaGFlbCBQZXJl eiA8c3BlZWRicmFrZUBzYmNnbG9iYWwubmV0Pg0KDQpEYXRlOiBXZWQsIDMwIEp1bCAyMDA4IDA4 OjE1OjMyIA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6 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    Message 14


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    Time: 09:14:22 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Subject: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    Hey Mike, Please let me clarify my post. My comments were not directed at you, personally. I would not do that on a public forum like this. They were simply a general comment on statements that I have seen posted here on the list from time to time. I hope that my comments have not offended you. That was not my intent. As I said, they were not directed at any one individual. You are right in saying that "You don't know me". I don't. And vice-versa. But as far as my comments go, that point is irrelevant, since my comments were not directed at you. However, from the posts you have made so far, it sounds like you have a good knowledge of machining, and have access to equipment that will be of assistance to you as you progress with your project. You are asking lots of questions. That is a smart move. Some dive into a project without gathering the necessary information to make an informed decision. There is a lot of experience held by many members of this list, and most are willing and eager to share what works and what doesn't work. This is a friendly bunch of people. If you ask a question you will usually get an answer. I've been at this project for about five years since I started thinking that maybe I could actually build and fly one of these wonderful old planes. I'm still gathering information and making decisions (and changing my mind) as I build, and I might even keep doing that after it's finished. I don't claim to have all the answers, but if I've got something to share that I think is valuable, I'll do it. That was the point of my post. Period. I get the feeling from your comments that we might have gotten off on the wrong foot. I hope not. Keep asking questions and gathering info. If you would prefer not to hear my comments, just say so, and I'll keep my mouth (or maybe that should be keyboard) shut. Bill C.


    Message 15


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    Time: 10:06:26 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    Not an issue at all Bill. Please continue to chime in with any info.comment s you may have. I do not know it all, and am always willing to listen to wh at others have to offer...may not agree with it, but will listen. --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote: From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans Hey Mike, Please let me clarify my post. My comments were not directed at you, personally. I would not do that on a public forum like this. They were simply a general comment on statements th at I have seen posted here on the list from time to time. I hope that my- comments have not offended you. That was not my intent. As I said, they we re not directed at any one individual. You are right in saying that "You don't know me". I don't. And vice-versa. - But as far as my comments go, that point is irrelevant, since my commen ts were not directed at you. However, from the posts you have made so far, it sounds like you have a good knowledge of machining, and have access to e quipment that will be of assistance to you as you progress with your projec t. You are asking lots of questions. That is a smart move. Some dive into a project without gathering the necessary information to make an informed de cision. There is a lot of experience held by many members of this list, and most are willing and eager to share what works and what doesn't work. This is a friendly bunch of people. If you ask a question you will usually get an answer. I've been at this project for about five years since I started t hinking that maybe I could actually build and fly one of these wonderful ol d planes. I'm still gathering information and making decisions (and changing my mind) as I build, and I might even keep doing that after it's finished. I don't claim to have all the answers, but if I've got something to share that I think is valuable, I'll do it. That was the point of my pos t. Period. I get the feeling from your comments that we might have gotten off on the w rong foot. I hope not. Keep asking questions and gathering info. If you would prefer not to hear m y comments, just say so, and I'll keep my mouth (or maybe that should be ke yboard) shut. Bill C.


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:11:23 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    This is the type of info I am after. As I said, it will be some time before I need to have an engine, but if I can get some issues cleared up prior to that, I would like to do so. I have heard and was under the impression tha t the Corvair engine can be readily found, relativly cheap, and converted =C2- for aircraft use. I assumed, which I should not, that I could do mos t, if not all of the "conversion work" myself, again saving money. However, if in the long run it will cost almost as much as a new engine, then I wou ld like to find out more. I imagine that these Lycoming engines are on thei r website so I can get more info. on them? --- On Wed, 7/30/08, John Recine <AmsafetyC@aol.com> wrote: From: John Recine <AmsafetyC@aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans You're welcome. Actually it was Tony that pointed me more towards the lycom ing. The idea of spending 5K plus on a subaru or a corvair and still have an aut o engine as opposed to spending a similar amount and getting a solid AC cer tified engine. I decided on the lycoming I am not knocking the others, they do have a certain attraction but I was a ble to find a lycoming that put me in the same price range just relating my experience in the great engine quest John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans I have heard good things about that series of books. Those are actually on my "to purchase" list. You hit the nail on the head...I am looking at all o ptions and trying to get a game plan in place. No need to buy books not rel ated to my engine. As I said multiple times, just gathering intel. for pros pects. It will be some time before I am ready to commit on an engine, but f or now, I will continue to learn what I can. Thanks for the reply! --- On Wed, 7/30/08, John Recine <AmsafetyC@aol.com> wrote: From: John Recine <AmsafetyC@aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans Michael For what its worth I have building for 1 year and 5 months. Over that perio d I considered most all the engine choices several times and many not on th e list. I finally made the decision about a month ago and went with the Lycoming 02 35 for many reasons Point being you should consider all engine options while you build and deci de when you get close to defining and constructing your mount. Till then no need to purchase engine specific books or materials. You will do well to purchase the Tony bengelis series for solid advice on a ll the aspects of the build including considerations of engine selection If you're serious about getting good solid info buy the Bengelis books from the EAA you will not be disapointed John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans Wow, LOT's of assumptions there!=C2- As I could go into the whole "You do n't know me" speech and turn this thread into a useless waste of time and e ffort, I won't. My quest is to learn what I can before making any final dec isions. I have been involved with this whole world of plane building for a whopping 2 weeks! Not only am I gathering info. on things that are useful, I am gathering knowledge of the personalities on this board. It's all good. Seems like I hit a nerve with the pricey book comment, maybe it is worth i t, maybe not. That is why I am here...to find out what is what. How am I to know that this is the ONLY good book on this type of subject? How am I to know there isn't others with the same info for 1/2 the price? Two weeks int o the project and all I want is info.=C2- This seems to be a good place t o get it...attitudes aside. I appreciate the responses, it's all good info. --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote: From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude.=C2 -Some complain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why shou ld I spend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much t o print". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59 (including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $4 0 (or more)=C2-every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every mont h, which adds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in=C2-your a verage vehicle=C2-will get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatre with a companion is going to set you back=C2-half the p rice of a manual. Add popcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picture a couple of hundred dollars is probably less=C2-th an 2% of the total cost of the entire plane.=C2-In my mind, this isn't th e place to look for savings. If you are just curious about what the plans l ook like, or what exactly is contained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expe nsive. But if you are seriously considering building either, the price is q uite reasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far you get. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're n ot just paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author for sharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years of hard work. =C2- Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm a bit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in my pr oject (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safe ways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, I pr efer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That's w hy I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought a con version manual directly=C2-from William Wynne. I still have not committed to going the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not reg ret buying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant. =C2- Bill C. (stepping down off the soapbox, now) =C2- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =C3=82=C2 =C3=82=C2=B7=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=BA~=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=83=C2=AD=C3=82 =C2=B2,=C3=83=C5=BEg(=C3=A2=82=AC=9C=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=9CM4 =C3=83=9CG=C3=83=C5=A1q=C3=83=C2=BC=C3=82=C2=A2=C3=83=C2=AA=C3=83=C2 =A2z=C3=82=C2=B9=C3=83=C5=BE=C3=83=EF=BD=C3=83=C5-.=C3=82=C2=AE'=C3=82 =C2=AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=C3=A2=82=AC=EF=BD=C3=82=C2=B8=C3=82=C2=AC=C3=82 =C2=B4I=C3=85=C2=A1=C3=85=C2-Qh=C3=82=C2=AE=C3=83=C2=A9R=C3=83=A1 =C2=AD=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=C3=83=C2=A3=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=82=C2=BA'=C3=A2 =82=AC=C2=B0=C3=83=B9=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=B9Ey=C3=82=C2=ABn=C2=AD =C3=83=C2=AB j=C3=83=C2=B8=C2-j=C3=83=C5=A1+=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=A2=82=AC=C2-=C3=83 =C2=AB=C3=82=C2=A3=C3=83=CB=9C^=C3=A2=9E=C2=A2=C3=82=C2=A9=C3=83=C2 =B2.+-=C3=82=C2=BA=C3=83=CB=9C=C3=82=C2=A5=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=CB=9C=C3=85=C2 =BE=C3=82=C2=B2=C3=83=B9=C3=85=9C=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=C3=82=C2 =AB=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=B9T=C3=85=C2=B8=C3=83=C2=B4=C3=82=C2=AEn=C3=83 =A1+=C3=85=C2-=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=BAb=C3=82=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=83=CB=86 b=C3=82=C2=BD=C3=83=C2=A4=C3=85=C2=BEj=C3=82=C2=B7!=C3=85=99'=C3=A2 =82=AC=9C=C3=A2=82=AC=C2-=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=83=C2=AC6=C3 =82=C2=B2=C3=82=C2=BA0=C3=82=C2=B1=C3=83=C2-=C3=82=C2=A1j=C3=83=98@ C=C3=83=C2=A1=C3=82=C2=A2=C3=83=C5=A1,=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=C3=82=C2=AA=C3 =83=C5=BEjwf=C3=82=C2=B9=C3=83=CB=86f=C3=82=C2=B9=C3=83=CB=86f=C3=82=C2=A2 =C3=82=C2=B7j=C3=83=C5=BE|m=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=85=C2=B8=C3=83=C2=C3=83=C6=92 &j=C3=83=C5=A1=C3=83=C2=A8=C3=85=C2=BE',r=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=82=C25 =C3=82=C2=AB=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=82=C2=ABh=C3=82=C2=AC=C3=83 =C2=B8=C3=85=C2=BE=C3=82=C2=B5=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=82=C2=A2R=C3=83 =C2=A2=C3=82=C2=B2=C3=83=CB=9Cm=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=85=C2=B8=C3=83=C2=C3=83 =C6=92&j=C3=83=C5=A1=C3=83=C2=A8=C3=85=C2=BE',r=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=82 =C25=C3=82=C2=AB=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=82=C2=ABh=C3=82=C2=AC =C3=83=C2=B8=C3=85=C2=BE=C3=82=C2=B5=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=82=C2=A2R ========= =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3 =9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9 =C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=9D=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I =C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9R=C3=87=C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA' =B0=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BEy=C2=ABn=C2=AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6 -=C3=AB=C2=A3=C3=98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5- =C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3=8B=C5=93=C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2 =AEn=C3=87+=C5-=BAb=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=88b=C2=BD=C3=A4=C5=BEj=C2=B7! =C5=92'=93-=EF=BD=C3=AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3-=C2=A1j =C3=91@C=C3=A1=C2=A2=C3=9A,=C2=AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3 =88f=C2=A2=C2=B7j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r =B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3 =A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=98m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE', r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9 =C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9F=C3=9A


    Message 17


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    Time: 01:09:39 PM PST US
    From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius@gwi.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    Michael: Something to chew on for a while and quite educating. http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/ http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/flexplate/problem.html http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flights/crank2/ Offered not as a discouragement but this should give you an idea of the kind of teritory you are geting in to. Michael in Maine


    Message 18


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    Time: 02:41:09 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Mike, These comments are intended to be "attitude-free", and based on my limited experience. Take them or leave them. There are very few NEW aircraft engines available today that are suitable for the Pietenpol. There is NO NEW aircraft engine suitable for use in the Pietenpol available for $5,000. A NEW aircraft engine for the Piet will likely run you $20,000 Plus. Most builders end up using engines that were actually manufactured about fifty years ago. These old engines get rebuilt, or overhauled, and are typically good for up to 2000 hours of service before needing another rebuild. Typically these are Continental A-65 up to O-200. The bigger the engine, the heavier it is. You can look for engines on Barnstormers.com and you will likely find a fairly wide range of prices and states of (dis)repair. A mid-timed engine can be had relatively cheaply, and provide lots of good service, but unless you know the engine (and possibly it's previous owner) you can never be sure what you are getting. For this reason, many builders will pick up a run-out engine for a thousand bucks or so, and have it overhauled. This will typically end up totalling $8,000-$10,000 (your actual milage may vary). If you choose to use an engine like the Lycoming O-235, keep in mind that it is actually oversized for this application, plus you will have to design your own motormount. The Pietenpol plans include drawings for proven motormounts for the Ford Model A, Corvair, and small Continentals. If your plane is built lightly, the Continental A-65 is said to be a perfect engine for the plane. If you build heavy, it will suffer, performance-wise. Regarding Corvair conversions, in general, what I have heard is that if you assemble a Corvair engine, using parts purchased from FlyCorvair, your costs will total about $5,000. If you wish to buy a fully assembled, zero-timed Corvair conversion built to William Wynne's method, and using his parts the price will be about $8,000 (available from VairForce.com) . For about that price you should also be able to buy a zero-timed Continental. The more work you can do yourself, the cheaper you will be able to build an engine. The more work you have to sub out, the more expensive it will be. If you are capable, like Piet builder PF Beck, you can build your own Corvair conversion for less than $3,000. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195789#195789


    Message 19


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    Time: 03:10:56 PM PST US
    From: "Ken Chambers" <ken.riffic@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Riblett install
    Great to hear from you. Seems like a lot of curiosity about this airfoil on the list. I'm about to start building again after a long layoff and I'm trying to choose between airfoils. So here goes: How about the CG range? Does the 612 need the CG forward quite a bit compared to the original Piet airfoil? If so, is it so much that it makes light engines like the Continental A-65 more complicated? By complicated, I mean that the motor mount gets too long or the wings have to be moved way back. Are you using the 3/4 inch solid spar? Increased pitch sensitivity was mentioned at one point. Any thoughts on that? Thanks again. Ken On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Pieti Lowell <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>wrote: > Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com> > > Hi Curious: > Couldn't help noticing your concern, I have been in touch with H Riblett > since the very early 90s and I sent him the Piet wing specs, he then gave me > a complete overview of, Piet, 4412(Luscomb) and two recommended Riblett > designs, GA 30- U- 612, plus a thicker design, My second Piet had a 4412, > clipped 2 ft. A great performer. When I installed a Werner 145 on my Blue > Piet it would only go 105 MPH @ 80% throttle, I go much faster with the > Werner in another airplane, so I decided to go a head and build the 612,( > not to be confused with the 612 in Riblett's book ) I clipped the wing two > feet, made a 3 piece, 6" hi spars, added the spacer on the spar to rib, and > built it the same as the Pitt. It is close to 5/8" higher and has a 3/8 > undercamber. > With testing the comparison of the Piet to the Riblett wings, using the > Lambert 90HP engine, there is a very big difference. Even with the shorter > wing, you wont believe the glide ratio, 42MPH stall, 600 FPM climb, and flat > out speed 108 MPH. The Piet wing has an air separation on the under side at > the rear 20% of the wing, as per Riblitts computer read-out. > By the way the wing will pull close to 2.5 Gs at 120 MPH at the bottom of a > loop. > Got a lot of answers, if you need an opinion. > Pieti Lowell > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195735#195735 > > -- Ken Chambers 512-796-1798


    Message 20


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    Time: 04:26:31 PM PST US
    From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Waldo Pepper - One More Time
    Jack, are you going to let us know how your trip went and what I missed out on??? Gene in Tennessee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 7:44 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More Time > <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com> > > The Great Waldo Pepper is available through Amazon. New or Used. No > need to risk copyright infingement. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Raleigh, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim > Verthein > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:28 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More Time > > <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com> > > I haven't seen this movie since it was new in the theatre probably 30 > years ago. My quest to find a copy turned up nothing locally. > > Then, it turns out my Mom had it on VHS. She actually wrote an article > about it 25 years or so ago. Since my folks don't even HAVE a VHS > player anymore, she gave it to me. > > I have dubbed it to DVD. If there is anyone on the list who hasn't seen > the movie who would like to I sell send a DVD to anyone who wants one > for no charge at all. Just don't expect any fancy packaging. > > And yes, to those of you with scruples who worry about such things I'm > sure this is some horrid copyright violation. but since it's not > available for purchase new, used copies are hard to come by (and often > expensive) and I really doubt anyone at the studio, or any of the > performers gets much for it when a used copy changes hands at some > insane collector price anyway, and heck, I'm offering them FREE, I'm not > gonna worry about it. If Mr. Redford would like to call me and ask for > his share, more power to him. > > So, that's the offer. Probably best to e-mail me of list if you'd like > one: > > minoxphotographer@yahoo.com > > Tim in Bovey > > > _________________________________________________ > > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please > notify the sender > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - > Norsk - Portuguese > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 4:05 PM > >


    Message 21


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    Time: 04:57:38 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
    From: "John Recine" <AmsafetyC@aol.com>
    Not too certain the 0235 remark the hp ranges from 108 hp up The corvair developes 100 to 125 hp as I have seen published by others How is 108 hp over powering? Would someone explain that one to me I am not too certain about the math! Yet always willing to learn the errors of my ways You should more than likely explain the part about Corvair engines and parts still being manfactured and the overwhealming supply of new parts available at the local autzone parts store. John John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans Mike, These comments are intended to be "attitude-free", and based on my limited experience. Take them or leave them. There are very few NEW aircraft engines available today that are suitable for the Pietenpol. There is NO NEW aircraft engine suitable for use in the Pietenpol available for $5,000. A NEW aircraft engine for the Piet will likely run you $20,000 Plus. Most builders end up using engines that were actually manufactured about fifty years ago. These old engines get rebuilt, or overhauled, and are typically good for up to 2000 hours of service before needing another rebuild. Typically these are Continental A-65 up to O-200. The bigger the engine, the heavier it is. You can look for engines on Barnstormers.com and you will likely find a fairly wide range of prices and states of (dis)repair. A mid-timed engine can be had relatively cheaply, and provide lots of good service, but unless you know the engine (and possibly it's previous owner) you can never be sure what you are getting. For this reason, many builders will pick up a run-out engine for a thousand bucks or so, and have it overhauled. This will typically end up totalling $8,000-$10,000 (your actual milage may vary). If you choose to use an engine like the Lycoming O-235, keep in mind that it is actually oversized for this application, plus you will have to design your o! wn motormount. The Pietenpol plans include drawings for proven motormounts for the Ford Model A, Corvair, and small Continentals. If your plane is built lightly, the Continental A-65 is said to be a perfect engine for the plane. If you build heavy, it will suffer, performance-wise. Regarding Corvair conversions, in general, what I have heard is that if you assemble a Corvair engine, using parts purchased from FlyCorvair, your costs will total about $5,000. If you wish to buy a fully assembled, zero-timed Corvair conversion built to William Wynne's method, and using his parts the price will be about $8,000 (available from VairForce.com) . For about that price you should also be able to buy a zero-timed Continental. The more work you can do yourself, the cheaper you will be able to build an engine. The more work you have to sub out, the more expensive it will be. If you are capable, like Piet builder PF Beck, you can build your own Corvair conversion for less than $3,000. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195789#195789


    Message 22


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    Time: 04:59:54 PM PST US
    From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Tail assembly
    Members of the list: - I am ready to mount my tail section and need some advice. Can anyone advise what type-or -kind of turnbuckles they are using for the cable connect ion on the tail section? I have been searching Aircraft Spruce for adjustab le turnbuckles but find the price on the high side. Don't get me wrong...." no ten dollar head you get a ten dollar helmet".... guy here. Just wonderin g the best way to connect the cables with adjustment. What are most of you all using? - Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP - =0A=0A=0A


    Message 23


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    Time: 06:32:08 PM PST US
    From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Tail assembly
    Ken: Try B & B aircraft supply for used turnbucles. I think they are about 1/3 the price aircraft spruce charges. A couple of years ago when I bought mine I think I paid about $8 a complete turnbuckle assembly Here is the contact info.... 202 S Center Gardner, KS 66030 (913) 884-5930 They are probably at Oshkosh right now, so I am not sure anyone is maning the phones. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Sent: 7/30/2008 7:04:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail assembly Members of the list: I am ready to mount my tail section and need some advice. Can anyone advise what type or kind of turnbuckles they are using for the cable connection on the tail section? I have been searching Aircraft Spruce for adjustable turnbuckles but find the price on the high side. Don't get me wrong...."no ten dollar head you get a ten dollar helmet".... guy here. Just wondering the best way to connect the cables with adjustment. What are most of you all using? Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP


    Message 24


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    Time: 07:34:54 PM PST US
    From: bcharvet@bellsouth.net
    Subject: Re: Tail assembly


    Message 25


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    Time: 10:03:47 PM PST US
    From: <catdesigns@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Tail assembly
    I'm using turnbuckles from B&B. Turnbuckles are costly, but what are you going to do. You might try a salvage yard. We have a airplane salvage yard here in Sacramento and I was able to scrounge some turnbuckles there that were cheaper. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Schreiber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 6:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail assembly Ken: Try B & B aircraft supply for used turnbucles. I think they are about 1/3 the price aircraft spruce charges. A couple of years ago when I bought mine I think I paid about $8 a complete turnbuckle assembly Here is the contact info.... 202 S Center Gardner, KS 66030 (913) 884-5930 They are probably at Oshkosh right now, so I am not sure anyone is maning the phones. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: Pietenpol Sent: 7/30/2008 7:04:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail assembly Members of the list: I am ready to mount my tail section and need some advice. Can anyone advise what type or kind of turnbuckles they are using for the cable connection on the tail section? I have been searching Aircraft Spruce for adjustable turnbuckles but find the price on the high side. Don't get me wrong...."no ten dollar head you get a ten dollar helmet".... guy here. Just wondering the best way to connect the cables with adjustment. What are most of you all using? Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP




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