Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:56 AM - Affordable Flying Center featured aircraft: Pietenpol Air Camper (Ben Charvet)
2. 04:31 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Michael Perez)
3. 06:21 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (Dave Abramson)
4. 06:23 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (hvandervoo@aol.com)
5. 06:38 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (Bill Church)
6. 06:49 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Michael Perez)
7. 07:48 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Bill Church)
8. 07:55 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (John Recine)
9. 08:29 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (Ben Ramler)
10. 08:34 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (Bill Church)
11. 08:48 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (John Recine)
12. 10:12 AM - Re: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper (H RULE)
13. 10:34 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (Phillips, Jack)
14. 11:06 AM - Re: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper (Dave Abramson)
15. 11:32 AM - Re: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
16. 12:21 PM - Brodhead Pictures (Phillips, Jack)
17. 12:39 PM - Re: Brodhead Pictures (Gary Boothe)
18. 12:54 PM - Re: Brodhead Pictures (TOM STINEMETZE)
19. 01:00 PM - Re: Brodhead Pictures (Phillips, Jack)
20. 01:02 PM - Re: Brodhead Pictures (Phillips, Jack)
21. 02:10 PM - (Douwe Blumberg)
22. 03:22 PM - Re: No Title (Bill Church)
23. 03:41 PM - test (walt)
24. 05:34 PM - my project (Ben Ramler)
25. 05:51 PM - project progress (Gene Rambo)
26. 06:32 PM - Re: No Title (mr-fix-all)
27. 11:04 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
28. 11:05 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Affordable Flying Center featured aircraft: Pietenpol |
Air Camper
Here is a link to Bill Rewey's Piet at Oshkosh. It was getting more
attention than anything else in the Affordable Flying Center
http://www.airventure.org/2008/4wed30/afc.html
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Homemade Turnbuckles |
I wonder about that exact subject...the loads on a control surface/turn buc
kle/cable in a Piet. Say 90 MPH and a sharp "full deflection" pull of the e
levator...what kind of load does that put on the-cables, etc? For that ma
tter, the hindges, wood at the attaching points, etc. I have NO idea, but c
urious. I would think a wood component would let go long before a steel cab
le/tunbuckle...?
--- On Thu, 7/31/08, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possible
alternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Fo
und
some surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraft
cable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MS
turnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on the
other, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs.
so it's a good match for that cable.
Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum
"screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find that
it might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum
body
and the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body. Move o
n to
galvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, s
till
very affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steel
turnbuckles, which are available in both open and closed body and seem to e
ngage
maybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also ha
ve a
caution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say "fails
rather sharply"?
The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot more
attractive but the strength is just not there without really getting heavy.
Is
the aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don't
know. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loa
dings
on any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred
,
someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.
I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these things
against their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainless
turnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware,
but
I would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads with
at
least a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10
turnbuckle.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 3
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We need the charactor names before their lines!!!!
Axel, Mary-Beth, and Waldo!!!
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:49 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper
In a message dated 7/31/2008 9:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
minoxphotographer@yahoo.com writes:
For those who might think a Wynne manual is expensive, a $40 movie
certainly would be!
I doubt you'll ever hear anyone quote lines for the head torque pattern
or timing gear sections of the book
What are you doing, I'm borrowing your plane son, its an inferior model
but it ill do, Dillhoffer promised me a job, you 're not going anywhere with
my plane... You're both starving why not help each other
What would we do? your plane is down for repair and my engine is giving me
fits..... Actually I have some ideas on the subject.
Lets get this straight, you're just flying, she's just driving, I'm the
one doing a great stunt, that why you're getting all the glory son
John
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy
Football today.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Homemade Turnbuckles |
Load on the control cables cables is easy to calculate
The control stick is nothing more than a lever, I do not have the
drawings in front of me, but let us assume a 1: 10 ratio (it is lower)
Stick forces in my Pietenpol are fairly light, never measured it but my
guess would be between 1- 3 pounds.
But again lets assume a worst case scenario of 10 Lbs.
That would be 10 x 10 = 100 Lbs of force on a cable rated for 2000.
(1/8")
One reason why I have 3/32 cable on my controls (rated for 1000 Lbs) to
save weight
If you reverse the calculation I need to lean on the controls with more
than 100 Lbs to break the cable.
An air plane that needs 100+ Lbs at the stick to control it has
something else wrong.
Now why do we use cable that is rated 10 times load, simply because
some unseen damage (corrosion or chafing) can reduce the cable strenght
and you want enough left to save your butt.
My 2 cents
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 6:28 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
I wonder about that exact subject...the loads on a control surface/turn
buckle/cable in a Piet. Say 90 MPH and a sharp "full deflection" pull
of the elevator...what kind of load does that put on thecables, etc?
For that matter, the hindges, w
ood at the attaching points, etc. I have
NO idea, but curious. I would think a wood component would let go long
before a steel cable/tunbuckle...?
--- On Thu, 7/31/08, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possible
alternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop.
Found
some surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraft
cable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MS
turnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on the
other, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000
lbs.
so it's a good match for that cable.
Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum
"screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find that
it might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the
aluminum body
and the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body.
Move on to
galvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred
pounds, still
very affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steel
turnbuckles, which are available in both open
and closed body and seem
to engage
maybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and
also have a
caution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say
"fails
rather sharply"?
The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot more
attractive but the strength is just not there without really getting
heavy. Is
the aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don't
know. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic
loadings
on any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of
hundred,
someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.
I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these things
against their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainless
turnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS
hardware, but
I would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads
with at
least a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a
$10
turnbuckle.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
D=======================
=====
3D=====
D=======================
===========
D=======================
===========
D=======================
===========
=0
A
**************************************
Message 5
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What we really need is some connection between the message and the reply.
Talk about a non-sequitur.
Do Not Archive this either.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Abramson
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper
We need the charactor names before their lines!!!!
Axel, Mary-Beth, and Waldo!!!
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper
In a message dated 7/31/2008 9:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
minoxphotographer@yahoo.com writes:
For those who might think a Wynne manual is expensive, a $40 movie certainly
would be!
I doubt you'll ever hear anyone quote lines for the head torque pattern or
timing gear sections of the book
What are you doing, I'm borrowing your plane son, its an inferior model but
it ill do, Dillhoffer promised me a job, you 're not going anywhere with my
plane... You're both starving why not help each other
What would we do? your plane is down for repair and my engine is giving me
fits..... Actually I have some ideas on the subject.
Lets get this straight, you're just flying, she's just driving, I'm the one
doing a great stunt, that why you're getting all the glory son
John
_____
Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy
Football today
<http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020> .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Homemade Turnbuckles |
That all makes sense to me. I wonder,though, given your worse case scenerio
, if a pully would break free from the wood long before a cable letting go?
Just curious...things to ponder, I guess.
--- On Fri, 8/1/08, hvandervoo@aol.com <hvandervoo@aol.com> wrote:
From: hvandervoo@aol.com <hvandervoo@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Load on the control cables cables is easy to calculate
The control stick is nothing more than a lever, I do not have the
drawings in front of me, but let us assume a 1: 10 ratio (it is lower)
Stick forces in my Pietenpol are fairly light, never measured it but my
guess would be between 1- 3 pounds.
But again lets assume a worst case scenario of 10 Lbs.
That would be 10 x 10 = 100 Lbs of force on a cable rated for 2000.
(1/8")
One reason why I have 3/32 cable on my controls (rated for 1000 Lbs) to
save weight
If you reverse the calculation I need to lean on the controls with more
than 100 Lbs to break the cable.
An air plane that needs 100+ Lbs at the stick to control it has
something else wrong.
Now why do we use cable that is rated 10 times load, simply because
some unseen damage (corrosion or chafing) can reduce the cable strenght
and you want enough left to save your butt.
My 2 cents
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 6:28 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
I wonder about that exact subject...the loads on a control surface/turn
buckle/cable in a Piet. Say 90 MPH and a sharp "full deflection" pull
of the elevator...what kind of load does that put on the-cables, etc?
For that matter, the hindges, w
ood at the attaching points, etc. I have
NO idea, but curious. I would think a wood component would let go long
before a steel cable/tunbuckle...?
--- On Thu, 7/31/08, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possible
alternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop.
Found
some surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19
aircraft
cable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an
AN/MS
turnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on the
other, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000
lbs.
so it's a good match for that cable.
Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum
"screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find that
it might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the
aluminum body
and the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body.
Move on to
galvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred
pounds, still
very affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steel
turnbuckles, which are available in both open
and closed body and seem
to engage
maybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and
also have a
caution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say
"fails
rather sharply"?
The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot more
attractive but the strength is just not there without really getting
heavy. Is
the aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don't
know. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic
loadings
on any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of
hundred,
someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.
I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these things
against their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainless
turnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS
hardware, but
I would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads
with at
least a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a
$10
turnbuckle.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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=0
A
**************************************
Message 7
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| Subject: | Homemade Turnbuckles |
I like your logical approach, Hans.
When talking about the strength of any system, we always go back to the old
adage of "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link". In the case of
the control cables, as Oscar had pointed out, 1/8" aircraft cable is rated
at 2000lb, and a 1/4" (AN4) turnbuckle has the same rating. Sounds plenty
strong. However, are the sheet metal control horns the cables are tied to
rated for 2000lb? Is the connection of that control horn to the wood rated
for 2000 lb? Not even close! So, your choice of using 3/32" cables (and I
would assume AN3 turnbuckles) makes sense to me. If the system is loaded
anywhere near 1000 lb it will fail somewhere else other than the
cable/turnbuckle . Even if you were to exert a 50 lb force at the stick
(which would be 500 lb of tension on the cable and the control horns), your
choice of cable still has a factor of safety of 2. Of course, regardless of
what size cable is used, regular inspections are critical.
This is the same type of logic I was applying when looking at the
possibility of making the "homemade turnbuckles" that started this thread.
It has always been my intention to do controlled, real world testing of any
assembly that I come up with before I would even consider putting them in my
plane. After the design is refined, I plan to build several sample
assemblies which would be placed in tension, with the load incrementally
increased to the point of failure. If the result is not satisfactory, the
idea goes in the trash bin, and we move on.
Regarding hardware store turnbuckles, these things are crudely made, and I
would stay away from them.
Regarding the actual cables, I would NOT buy my "aircraft" cables at the
hardware store. The cable they sell is more likely "commercial" cable
(although it might be referred to as aircraft cable) which is not
lubricated, and will be far less resistant to fatigue failure. Just bite the
bullet and buy the real thing. Also, if a cable is running over a pulley, be
sure to use galvanized cable, rather than stainless steel, as the stainless
steel cable will fail before the galvanized. If the cables do not change
direction, stainless is okay (like tail bracing wires or landing gear
bracing wires, etc.)
Bill C.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Waldo Pepper |
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bz8geW91ciBwbGFuZSBpcyBkb3duIGZvciByZXBhaXIgYW5kIG15IGVuZ2luZSBpcyBnaXZpbmcg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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Waldo Pepper |
sorry for me being nieve, but what or who is the great waldo pepper? never
seen the movie so I don't know. As far as my project I have 9 ribs and I ha
ve more to do so I will be at the-number-10 mark. I will only be making
-14 regular ribs then after that then I move I onto the ailerons. Which r
eminds me I will have to order more glue I think.=0Atake care,=0ABen =0APie
t in progress........To Be Continued.=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---
-=0AFrom: Dave Abramson <davea@symbolicdisplays.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@m
atronics.com=0ASent: Friday, August 1, 2008 8:19:19 AM=0ASubject: RE: Piete
npol-List: Waldo Pepper=0A=0A=0AWe need the charactor names before their li
nes!!!! =0A-=0AAxel, Mary-Beth, and Waldo!!!=0A-=0ADo not Archive=0A-
=0A-=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat
ronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A
MsafetyC@aol.com=0ASent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:49 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-li
st@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper=0A=0A-=0A-
=0AIn a message dated 7/31/2008 9:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, minoxph
otographer@yahoo.com writes:=0AFor those who might think a Wynne manual is
expensive, a $40 movie certainly would be! =0A-=0A-=0AI doubt you'll ev
er hear anyone quote lines for the head torque pattern or timing gear secti
ons of the book=0AWhat are you doing, I'm borrowing your plane son, its an
inferior model but it ill do, Dillhoffer promised me a job, you 're not goi
ng anywhere with my plane... You're both starving why not help each other
=0AWhat would we do? your plane is down for repair and my engine is giving
me fits..... Actually I have some ideas on the subject.=0A-=0ALets get th
is straight, you're just flying, she's just driving, I'm the one doing a gr
eat stunt, that why you're getting all the glory son=0A-=0A-=0A-=0AJo
hn=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AGet fantasy fo
otball with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronic
s.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contr
=======================0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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??????
(just shoot me now)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Recine
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper
All three
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_____
From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper
What we really need is some connection between the message and the
reply.
Talk about a non-sequitur.
Do Not Archive this either.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Abramson
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper
We need the charactor names before their lines!!!!
Axel, Mary-Beth, and Waldo!!!
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper
In a message dated 7/31/2008 9:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
minoxphotographer@yahoo.com writes:
For those who might think a Wynne manual is expensive, a $40 movie
certainly would be!
I doubt you'll ever hear anyone quote lines for the head torque pattern
or timing gear sections of the book
What are you doing, I'm borrowing your plane son, its an inferior model
but it ill do, Dillhoffer promised me a job, you 're not going anywhere
with my plane... You're both starving why not help each other
What would we do? your plane is down for repair and my engine is giving
me fits..... Actually I have some ideas on the subject.
Lets get this straight, you're just flying, she's just driving, I'm the
one doing a great stunt, that why you're getting all the glory son
John
_____
Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse
Fantasy Football today
<http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020> .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD,=DE=AE=E9=A2=A2=EF
=BDP
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Waldo Pepper |
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aHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCI+
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dHJpYnV0aW9uID09PT09PT09PT09IA0K77+977+977+9fu+/ve+/ve+/vSzerumiou+/vVANCg0K
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re:The Great Waldo Pepper |
Waldo Pepper (Robert Redford) feels he has missed out on the glory of aerial combat
in World War I after being made a flight instructor. When the fighting ends,
Waldo has taken up barnstorming to make a living. He soon tangles with rival
barnstormer Axel Olsson (Bo Svenson). The two eventually wind up flying for
the traveling air show owned by Dillhoefer (Philip Bruns). In an effort to attract
bigger crowds, Dillhoefer introduces several young ladies into the show,
including Mary Beth (Susan Sarandon) and Patsy (Kelly Jean Peters). As the show
moves from town to town, and the crew practices new stunts, they experience
problems, errors, and crashes. As a result of the death of Mary Beth during a
wing walking stunt, Waldo is grounded by a federal aviation inspector, a man
from Waldo's past named Newt (Geoffrey Lewis). Waldo ultimately loses his pilot's
license, but this doesn't stop him from flying for very long.
Under an alias, Waldo gets a job as a stunt pilot in a Hollywood film depicting
the air battles of the Great War. Famous German air ace Ernst Kessler (Bo Brundin)
has also been hired by the producers, as a consultant and to fly a Fokker
Dr. I replica. The disillusioned, bitter and heavy drinking depiction of Kessler
is based on the real German ace and stunt flier Ernst Udet. During filming
of a famous wartime duel, though their fighters are unarmed, Waldo and Kessler
begin dogfighting in deadly earnest, using their airplanes as weapons.
Message 13
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|
Ben, there is no difference between the ribs at the ailerons and the
rest of them. The wing is built intact, then the airlerons are cut
free.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ramler
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper
sorry for me being nieve, but what or who is the great waldo pepper?
never seen the movie so I don't know. As far as my project I have 9 ribs
and I have more to do so I will be at the number 10 mark. I will only be
making 14 regular ribs then after that then I move I onto the ailerons.
Which reminds me I will have to order more glue I think.
take care,
Ben
Piet in progress........To Be Continued.
----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Abramson <davea@symbolicdisplays.com>
Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 8:19:19 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper
We need the charactor names before their lines!!!!
Axel, Mary-Beth, and Waldo!!!
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:49 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper
In a message dated 7/31/2008 9:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
minoxphotographer@yahoo.com writes:
For those who might think a Wynne manual is expensive, a
$40 movie certainly would be!
I doubt you'll ever hear anyone quote lines for the head
torque pattern or timing gear sections of the book
What are you doing, I'm borrowing your plane son, its an
inferior model but it ill do, Dillhoffer promised me a job, you 're not
going anywhere with my plane... You're both starving why not help each
other
What would we do? your plane is down for repair and my engine is
giving me fits..... Actually I have some ideas on the subject.
Lets get this straight, you're just flying, she's just driving,
I'm the one doing a great stunt, that why you're getting all the glory
son
John
_____
Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
FanHouse Fantasy Football today
<http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020> .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=>
href= <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=>
"http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re:The Great Waldo Pepper |
That's it in a nutshell!!!!!!!!!!!!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of H RULE
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:09 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper
Waldo Pepper (Robert Redford) feels he has missed out on the glory of
aerial combat in World War I after being made a flight instructor. When the
fighting ends, Waldo has taken up barnstorming to make a living. He soon
tangles with rival barnstormer Axel Olsson (Bo Svenson). The two eventually
wind up flying for the traveling air show owned by Dillhoefer (Philip
Bruns). In an effort to attract bigger crowds, Dillhoefer introduces several
young ladies into the show, including Mary Beth (Susan Sarandon) and Patsy
(Kelly Jean Peters). As the show moves from town to town, and the crew
practices new stunts, they experience problems, errors, and crashes. As a
result of the death of Mary Beth during a wing walking stunt, Waldo is
grounded by a federal aviation inspector, a man from Waldo's past named Newt
(Geoffrey Lewis). Waldo ultimately loses his pilot's license, but this
doesn't stop him from flying for very long.
Under an alias, Waldo gets a job as a stunt pilot in a Hollywood film
depicting the air battles of the Great War. Famous German air ace Ernst
Kessler (Bo Brundin) has also been hired by the producers, as a consultant
and to fly a Fokker Dr. I replica. The disillusioned, bitter and heavy
drinking depiction of Kessler is based on the real German ace and stunt
flier Ernst Udet. During filming of a famous wartime duel, though their
fighters are unarmed, Waldo and Kessler begin dogfighting in deadly earnest,
using their airplanes as weapons.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re:The Great Waldo Pepper |
It certainly looses a bunch in the nutshell version
In a message dated 8/1/2008 2:06:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
davea@symbolicdisplays.com writes:
That's it in a nutshell!!!!!!!!!!!!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of H RULE
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper
Waldo Pepper (Robert Redford) feels he has missed out on the glory of aerial
combat in _World War I_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I) after
being made a flight instructor. When the fighting ends, Waldo has taken up
_barnstorming_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnstorming) to make a living. He
soon tangles with rival barnstormer Axel Olsson (_Bo Svenson_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Svenson) ). The two eventually wind up flying for the
traveling air show owned by Dillhoefer (_Philip Bruns_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Bruns) ). In an effort to attract bigger crowds, Dillhoefer introduces
several young ladies into the show, including Mary Beth (_Susan Sarandon_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Sarandon) ) and Patsy (Kelly Jean Peters).
As the show moves from town to town, and the crew practices new stunts, they
experience problems, errors, and crashes. As a result of the death of Mary
Beth during a _wing walking_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_walking) stunt,
Waldo is grounded by a federal aviation inspector, a man from Waldo's past
named Newt (_Geoffrey Lewis_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Lewis_(actor)) ). Waldo ultimately loses his pilot's license, but this doesn't stop
him from flying for very long.
Under an alias, Waldo gets a job as a stunt pilot in a _Hollywood_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood) film depicting the air battles of the Great
War. Famous German air ace Ernst Kessler (Bo Brundin) has also been hired by
the producers, as a consultant and to fly a _Fokker Dr. I_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_Triplane) replica. The disillusioned, bitter and heavy
drinking depiction of Kessler is based on the real German ace and stunt flier
_Ernst Udet_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Udet) . During filming of a
famous wartime duel, though their fighters are unarmed, Waldo and Kessler begin
_dogfighting_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfight) in deadly earnest,
using their airplanes as weapons.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
Message 16
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| Subject: | Brodhead Pictures |
OK, I'll try again to post some low resolution pictures (out of respect
for those who suffer from dial-up modems) from last weekend's Brodhead
Pietenpol Extravaganza:
The grass was green, the mosquitos were plentiful and hungry, and the
Pietenpols were in abundance (at least more so than the Hatz Biplanes).
Here is a picture of the field:
<<The Field at Brodhead.JPG>>
Here is what it looked like from my Pietenpol at 300' AGL:
<<Brodhead from the air.JPG>>
There was good food, and good camaraderie. And lots of Piet builders
taking pictures and making notes from every flying Pietenpol on the
field (I think there were a total of 14 Piets there):
<<Taking Notes.JPG>>
By the way, on the way home I went by Jackson, TN to visit my Mom.
Coming out of there Monday morning, Flight Service forecast "a few
clouds at 600' ". By the time I got to the Tennessee River at Clifton,
this is what I found:
<<On Top.JPG>>
Shortly after that picture was taken, it walled in all around me and I
was suddenly in full IMC. If I didn't have a Turn & Bank indicator I
don't know what I would have done. As it was, I did a 180 and went back
to Jackson to wait for it to clear up.
Made it back home Tuesday afternoon. In 5 days I put a little over 34
hours on the airplane and flew just over 1900 miles.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 17
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| Subject: | Brodhead Pictures |
Didn't know a Piet could go that high! That's encouraging...;<)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, working on fuselage
(11 ribs down.)
_____
<<On Top.JPG>>
Shortly after that picture was taken, it walled in all around me and I was
suddenly in full IMC. If I didn't have a Turn & Bank indicator I don't know
what I would have done. As it was, I did a 180 and went back to Jackson to
wait for it to clear up.
Made it back home Tuesday afternoon. In 5 days I put a little over 34 hours
on the airplane and flew just over 1900 miles.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Pictures |
Jack:Great photos! I especially enjoyed the one looking down on the
field from your 'camper. I am curious though about the two runways that
are marked closed with the big "X's". Was this just a traffic control
issue or were they actually in bad shape?
Tom Stinemetze
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Brodhead Pictures |
Actually, I was at about 2,000' when that picture was made. Those
clouds were really low (or I would have just gone under them when they
started forming). I was near the Tennessee River and I suspect that
over the river they went all the way down to the deck
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures
Didn't know a Piet could go that high! That's encouraging.....;<)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, working on fuselage
(11 ribs down...)
_____
<<On Top.JPG>>
Shortly after that picture was taken, it walled in all around me and I
was suddenly in full IMC. If I didn't have a Turn & Bank indicator I
don't know what I would have done. As it was, I did a 180 and went back
to Jackson to wait for it to clear up.
Made it back home Tuesday afternoon. In 5 days I put a little over 34
hours on the airplane and flew just over 1900 miles.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you
is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- Norsk - Portuguese
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 20
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| Subject: | Brodhead Pictures |
They always close those runways during the fly-in and use them as
taxiways and for transient aircraft parking. They leave the long
(2400') runway open and use it, regardless of wind direction.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures
<TOMS@MCPCITY.COM>
Jack:Great photos! I especially enjoyed the one looking down on the
field from your 'camper. I am curious though about the two runways that
are marked closed with the big "X's". Was this just a traffic control
issue or were they actually in bad shape?
Tom Stinemetze
do not archive
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
Message 21
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I've decided to "bump up" the top of my center section fuel tank, moth
style, to get another hour.
Now that the top will visible, I want it to look decent.
My problem is that when I weld the cap flange to the top of the curved
section, it distorts the top something fierce.
I'm tig welding aluminum. I'm going to try again with the top flat on my
welding table and the flange clamped down. I was thinking I'd cut the hole
later which might help keep things in position.
Any ideas on how to get a nice distortion free top?
Douwe
Message 22
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Douwe,
Any chance you could snap a picture to show what kind of distortion you're getting,
and what the application looks like? It would really help in terms of offering
pertinent advise. Is the tank fully welded other than the filler, or is
the top of the tank not yet attached to the rest of the tank?
The usual way to deal with welding distortion is twofold, especially with aluminum,
which requires more heat to weld than steel or stainless.
First, you should expect that there will be some distortion. If you are expecting
to have a perfect, smooth, distortion-free weld that requires no post-weld
correction, you are likely to be disappointed every time. Knowing the ways that
welds will act allows you to use methods that can minimize that distortion.
Using TIG will help, because the weld is more concentrated. The first step is
to tack-weld the two pieces together in as many places as possible, to minimize
movement as you do the final seam welding. After the pieces are tacked together,
check for positioning, and adjust with a small hammer as required. When you
are happy with the positioning, you can weld off the entire joint. Since this
weld's primary function is to be liquid-proof, rather than structural, make
the welds as small as possible.
Secondly, the most effective method of removing weld distortion is through the
use of a sophisticated set of instruments called a hammer and a backing bar (or
block). The extreme, localized heat of welding puts a lot of stresses into the
metal in and around the weld. In the areas where the weld shrinks the metal,
you need to stretch it back to it's pre-weld state. This is where the hammer
and backing bar come in.
Of course, the best approach might be to take an entirely different approach, and
install a flanged filler neck, which would be attached with mechanical fasteners
- eliminating the welding, and all the distortion that goes with it. Here's
a link to the way Jim Markle did his. Looks good to me.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=396&PlaneID=52
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196081#196081
Message 23
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test
walt evans
NX140DL
Message 24
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Evening Everyone,
I want to apologize and take back the statement when I said that we were shortening
the wing. That indeed was a misstep on my part and I wanted to clarify.
What I am going is that after the 14th rib is made dad and I would look at what
is the best to proceed in the rib construction. My dad would would like to modify
the jig and build the ribs where the aileron will be place. Alternatively
we could do what Ben C and Hans have suggested and just take a saw to it we
will just have to wait and see.
On another note who what the great waldo pepper. I gather that its a movie but
thats all I know I have never seen it.
take care & Happy Building or flying,
Ben in MN
Message 25
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| Subject: | project progress |
Everyone:
Had a wonderful time at Brodhead, but didn't get to talk to everyone,
always a disappointment. It is amazing that no matter how many times
you go and look at often the same Piets, depending on what point you are
in on your own project, you see new details that you never noticed
before. I learned a LOT this trip!
After returning, I blasted, primed, and painted all of my steel parts
(well, almost all). Today, I started bolting things on PERMANENTLY!!
Before I did, though, I weighed my fuselage. Mine is a short fuselage,
with only minor modifications. No fittings whatsoever, only wood and
varnish, my completed fuselage weighs 33.6 lbs. according to my digital
bathroom scale. I know there have been postings on here with fuselage
weights, but I am too lazy to look them up right now. How does this
compare to others???
My biggest problem is that I will not have another day off until next
Thursday to go out and work again, bummer!!
Gene
Message 26
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I was reading you post about the aluminum warping when you weld it, a friend of
mine works for LifeLine ambulance where they scratch build ambulances. they
had the same problem when welding the window and door frames in the large panels
of aluminum. The solution was surprisingly low tech.
They have large pieces of 2x6 rectangular aluminum tubing that they have capped
on both ends which they filled w