---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/01/08: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:56 AM - Affordable Flying Center featured aircraft: Pietenpol Air Camper (Ben Charvet) 2. 04:31 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Michael Perez) 3. 06:21 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (Dave Abramson) 4. 06:23 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (hvandervoo@aol.com) 5. 06:38 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (Bill Church) 6. 06:49 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Michael Perez) 7. 07:48 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Bill Church) 8. 07:55 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (John Recine) 9. 08:29 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (Ben Ramler) 10. 08:34 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (Bill Church) 11. 08:48 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (John Recine) 12. 10:12 AM - Re: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper (H RULE) 13. 10:34 AM - Re: Waldo Pepper (Phillips, Jack) 14. 11:06 AM - Re: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper (Dave Abramson) 15. 11:32 AM - Re: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 16. 12:21 PM - Brodhead Pictures (Phillips, Jack) 17. 12:39 PM - Re: Brodhead Pictures (Gary Boothe) 18. 12:54 PM - Re: Brodhead Pictures (TOM STINEMETZE) 19. 01:00 PM - Re: Brodhead Pictures (Phillips, Jack) 20. 01:02 PM - Re: Brodhead Pictures (Phillips, Jack) 21. 02:10 PM - (Douwe Blumberg) 22. 03:22 PM - Re: No Title (Bill Church) 23. 03:41 PM - test (walt) 24. 05:34 PM - my project (Ben Ramler) 25. 05:51 PM - project progress (Gene Rambo) 26. 06:32 PM - Re: No Title (mr-fix-all) 27. 11:04 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 28. 11:05 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:04 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Pietenpol-List: Affordable Flying Center featured aircraft: Pietenpol Air Camper Here is a link to Bill Rewey's Piet at Oshkosh. It was getting more attention than anything else in the Affordable Flying Center http://www.airventure.org/2008/4wed30/afc.html Ben Charvet Mims, Fl ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:00 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles I wonder about that exact subject...the loads on a control surface/turn buc kle/cable in a Piet. Say 90 MPH and a sharp "full deflection" pull of the e levator...what kind of load does that put on the-cables, etc? For that ma tter, the hindges, wood at the attaching points, etc. I have NO idea, but c urious. I would think a wood component would let go long before a steel cab le/tunbuckle...? --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Oscar Zuniga wrote: From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possible alternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Fo und some surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraft cable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MS turnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on the other, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs. so it's a good match for that cable. Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum "screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find that it might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum body and the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body. Move o n to galvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, s till very affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steel turnbuckles, which are available in both open and closed body and seem to e ngage maybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also ha ve a caution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say "fails rather sharply"? The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot more attractive but the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Is the aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don't know. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loa dings on any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred , someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners. I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these things against their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainless turnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, but I would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads with at least a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10 turnbuckle. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:22 AM PST US From: "Dave Abramson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper We need the charactor names before their lines!!!! Axel, Mary-Beth, and Waldo!!! Do not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:49 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper In a message dated 7/31/2008 9:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, minoxphotographer@yahoo.com writes: For those who might think a Wynne manual is expensive, a $40 movie certainly would be! I doubt you'll ever hear anyone quote lines for the head torque pattern or timing gear sections of the book What are you doing, I'm borrowing your plane son, its an inferior model but it ill do, Dillhoffer promised me a job, you 're not going anywhere with my plane... You're both starving why not help each other What would we do? your plane is down for repair and my engine is giving me fits..... Actually I have some ideas on the subject. Lets get this straight, you're just flying, she's just driving, I'm the one doing a great stunt, that why you're getting all the glory son John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles From: hvandervoo@aol.com Load on the control cables cables is easy to calculate The control stick is nothing more than a lever, I do not have the drawings in front of me, but let us assume a 1: 10 ratio (it is lower) Stick forces in my Pietenpol are fairly light, never measured it but my guess would be between 1- 3 pounds. But again lets assume a worst case scenario of 10 Lbs. That would be 10 x 10 = 100 Lbs of force on a cable rated for 2000. (1/8") One reason why I have 3/32 cable on my controls (rated for 1000 Lbs) to save weight If you reverse the calculation I need to lean on the controls with more than 100 Lbs to break the cable. An air plane that needs 100+ Lbs at the stick to control it has something else wrong. Now why do we use cable that is rated 10 times load, simply because some unseen damage (corrosion or chafing) can reduce the cable strenght and you want enough left to save your butt. My 2 cents Hans -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez Sent: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 6:28 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles I wonder about that exact subject...the loads on a control surface/turn buckle/cable in a Piet. Say 90 MPH and a sharp "full deflection" pull of the elevator...what kind of load does that put on thecables, etc? For that matter, the hindges, w ood at the attaching points, etc. I have NO idea, but curious. I would think a wood component would let go long before a steel cable/tunbuckle...? --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Oscar Zuniga wrote: From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possible alternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Found some surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraft cable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MS turnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on the other, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs. so it's a good match for that cable. Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum "screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find that it might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum body and the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body. Move on to galvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, still very affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steel turnbuckles, which are available in both open and closed body and seem to engage maybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also have a caution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say "fails rather sharply"? The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot more attractive but the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Is the aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don't know. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loadings on any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred, someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners. I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these things against their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainless turnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, but I would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads with at least a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10 turnbuckle. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net D======================= ===== 3D===== D======================= =========== D======================= =========== D======================= =========== =0 A ************************************** ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:02 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper What we really need is some connection between the message and the reply. Talk about a non-sequitur. Do Not Archive this either. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Abramson Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 9:19 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper We need the charactor names before their lines!!!! Axel, Mary-Beth, and Waldo!!! Do not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper In a message dated 7/31/2008 9:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, minoxphotographer@yahoo.com writes: For those who might think a Wynne manual is expensive, a $40 movie certainly would be! I doubt you'll ever hear anyone quote lines for the head torque pattern or timing gear sections of the book What are you doing, I'm borrowing your plane son, its an inferior model but it ill do, Dillhoffer promised me a job, you 're not going anywhere with my plane... You're both starving why not help each other What would we do? your plane is down for repair and my engine is giving me fits..... Actually I have some ideas on the subject. Lets get this straight, you're just flying, she's just driving, I'm the one doing a great stunt, that why you're getting all the glory son John _____ Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today . href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:34 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles That all makes sense to me. I wonder,though, given your worse case scenerio , if a pully would break free from the wood long before a cable letting go? Just curious...things to ponder, I guess. --- On Fri, 8/1/08, hvandervoo@aol.com wrote: From: hvandervoo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles Load on the control cables cables is easy to calculate The control stick is nothing more than a lever, I do not have the drawings in front of me, but let us assume a 1: 10 ratio (it is lower) Stick forces in my Pietenpol are fairly light, never measured it but my guess would be between 1- 3 pounds. But again lets assume a worst case scenario of 10 Lbs. That would be 10 x 10 = 100 Lbs of force on a cable rated for 2000. (1/8") One reason why I have 3/32 cable on my controls (rated for 1000 Lbs) to save weight If you reverse the calculation I need to lean on the controls with more than 100 Lbs to break the cable. An air plane that needs 100+ Lbs at the stick to control it has something else wrong. Now why do we use cable that is rated 10 times load, simply because some unseen damage (corrosion or chafing) can reduce the cable strenght and you want enough left to save your butt. My 2 cents Hans -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez Sent: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 6:28 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles I wonder about that exact subject...the loads on a control surface/turn buckle/cable in a Piet. Say 90 MPH and a sharp "full deflection" pull of the elevator...what kind of load does that put on the-cables, etc? For that matter, the hindges, w ood at the attaching points, etc. I have NO idea, but curious. I would think a wood component would let go long before a steel cable/tunbuckle...? --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Oscar Zuniga wrote: From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possible alternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Found some surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraft cable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MS turnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on the other, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs. so it's a good match for that cable. Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum "screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find that it might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum body and the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body. Move on to galvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, still very affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steel turnbuckles, which are available in both open and closed body and seem to engage maybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also have a caution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say "fails rather sharply"? The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot more attractive but the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Is the aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don't know. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loadings on any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred, someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners. I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these things against their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainless turnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, but I would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads with at least a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10 turnbuckle. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =0 A ************************************** ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:28 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles I like your logical approach, Hans. When talking about the strength of any system, we always go back to the old adage of "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link". In the case of the control cables, as Oscar had pointed out, 1/8" aircraft cable is rated at 2000lb, and a 1/4" (AN4) turnbuckle has the same rating. Sounds plenty strong. However, are the sheet metal control horns the cables are tied to rated for 2000lb? Is the connection of that control horn to the wood rated for 2000 lb? Not even close! So, your choice of using 3/32" cables (and I would assume AN3 turnbuckles) makes sense to me. If the system is loaded anywhere near 1000 lb it will fail somewhere else other than the cable/turnbuckle . Even if you were to exert a 50 lb force at the stick (which would be 500 lb of tension on the cable and the control horns), your choice of cable still has a factor of safety of 2. Of course, regardless of what size cable is used, regular inspections are critical. This is the same type of logic I was applying when looking at the possibility of making the "homemade turnbuckles" that started this thread. It has always been my intention to do controlled, real world testing of any assembly that I come up with before I would even consider putting them in my plane. After the design is refined, I plan to build several sample assemblies which would be placed in tension, with the load incrementally increased to the point of failure. If the result is not satisfactory, the idea goes in the trash bin, and we move on. Regarding hardware store turnbuckles, these things are crudely made, and I would stay away from them. Regarding the actual cables, I would NOT buy my "aircraft" cables at the hardware store. The cable they sell is more likely "commercial" cable (although it might be referred to as aircraft cable) which is not lubricated, and will be far less resistant to fatigue failure. Just bite the bullet and buy the real thing. Also, if a cable is running over a pulley, be sure to use galvanized cable, rather than stainless steel, as the stainless steel cable will fail before the galvanized. If the cables do not change direction, stainless is okay (like tail bracing wires or landing gear bracing wires, etc.) Bill C. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper From: "John Recine" QWxsIHRocmVlDQoNCg0KU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZlcml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3MgQmxhY2tCZXJyeQ0K DQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogIkJpbGwgQ2h1cmNoIiA8ZW5nQGNh bmFkaWFucm9nZXJzLmNvbT4NCg0KRGF0ZTogRnJpLCAxIEF1ZyAyMDA4IDA5OjM1OjMyIA0KVG86 IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1M aXN0OiBXYWxkbyBQZXBwZXINCg0KDQpXaGF0IHdlIHJlYWxseSBuZWVkIGlzIHNvbWUgY29ubmVj dGlvbiBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCB0aGUgcmVwbHkuDQogDQpUYWxrIGFib3V0IGEg bm9uLXNlcXVpdHVyLg0KIA0KRG8gTm90IEFyY2hpdmUgdGhpcyBlaXRoZXIuDQoNCiAgX19fX18g IA0KDQpGcm9tOiBvd25lci1waWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KW21h aWx0bzpvd25lci1waWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV0gT24gQmVoYWxm IE9mIERhdmUNCkFicmFtc29uDQpTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIEF1Z3VzdCAwMSwgMjAwOCA5OjE5IEFN DQpUbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFBpZXRlbnBv bC1MaXN0OiBXYWxkbyBQZXBwZXINCg0KDQpXZSBuZWVkIHRoZSBjaGFyYWN0b3IgbmFtZXMgYmVm b3JlIHRoZWlyIGxpbmVzISEhISANCiANCkF4ZWwsIE1hcnktQmV0aCwgYW5kIFdhbGRvISEhDQog DQpEbyBub3QgQXJjaGl2ZQ0KIA0KIA0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJv bTogb3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NClttYWlsdG86b3du ZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21dT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mDQpBTXNh ZmV0eUNAYW9sLmNvbQ0KU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIEp1bHkgMzEsIDIwMDggNjo0OSBQTQ0KVG86 IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlz dDogV2FsZG8gUGVwcGVyDQoNCg0KDQogDQogDQpJbiBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgZGF0ZWQgNy8zMS8yMDA4 IDk6Mzg6NDUgUC5NLiBFYXN0ZXJuIERheWxpZ2h0IFRpbWUsDQptaW5veHBob3RvZ3JhcGhlckB5 YWhvby5jb20gd3JpdGVzOg0KDQpGb3IgdGhvc2Ugd2hvIG1pZ2h0IHRoaW5rIGEgV3lubmUgbWFu dWFsIGlzIGV4cGVuc2l2ZSwgYSAkNDAgbW92aWUgY2VydGFpbmx5DQp3b3VsZCBiZSEgDQoNCiAN CiANCg0KSSBkb3VidCB5b3UnbGwgZXZlciBoZWFyIGFueW9uZSBxdW90ZSBsaW5lcyBmb3IgdGhl IGhlYWQgdG9ycXVlIHBhdHRlcm4gb3INCnRpbWluZyBnZWFyIHNlY3Rpb25zIG9mIHRoZSBib29r DQoNCldoYXQgYXJlIHlvdSBkb2luZywgSSdtIGJvcnJvd2luZyB5b3VyIHBsYW5lIHNvbiwgaXRz IGFuIGluZmVyaW9yIG1vZGVsIGJ1dA0KaXQgaWxsIGRvLCBEaWxsaG9mZmVyIHByb21pc2VkIG1l IGEgam9iLCB5b3UgJ3JlIG5vdCBnb2luZyBhbnl3aGVyZSB3aXRoIG15DQpwbGFuZS4uLiBZb3Un cmUgYm90aCBzdGFydmluZyB3aHkgbm90IGhlbHAgZWFjaCBvdGhlcg0KV2hhdCB3b3VsZCB3ZSBk bz8geW91ciBwbGFuZSBpcyBkb3duIGZvciByZXBhaXIgYW5kIG15IGVuZ2luZSBpcyBnaXZpbmcg bWUNCmZpdHMuLi4uLiBBY3R1YWxseSBJIGhhdmUgc29tZSBpZGVhcyBvbiB0aGUgc3ViamVjdC4N CiANCkxldHMgZ2V0IHRoaXMgc3RyYWlnaHQsIHlvdSdyZSBqdXN0IGZseWluZywgc2hlJ3MganVz dCBkcml2aW5nLCBJJ20gdGhlIG9uZQ0KZG9pbmcgYSBncmVhdCBzdHVudCwgdGhhdCB3aHkgeW91 J3JlIGdldHRpbmcgYWxsIHRoZSBnbG9yeSBzb24NCiANCiANCiANCkpvaG4NCg0KDQogDQoNCg0K DQoNCg0KICBfX19fXyAgDQoNCkdldCBmYW50YXN5IGZvb3RiYWxsIHdpdGggZnJlZSBsaXZlIHNj b3JpbmcuIFNpZ24gdXAgZm9yIEZhbkhvdXNlIEZhbnRhc3kNCkZvb3RiYWxsIHRvZGF5DQo8aHR0 cDovL3d3dy5mYW5ob3VzZS5jb20vZmFudGFzeWFmZmFpcj9uY2lkPWFvbHNwcjAwMDUwMDAwMDAw MDIwPiAuDQoNCg0KDQoNCmhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/ UGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QiPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWMNCnMuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0 ZW5wb2wtTGlzdA0KDQpocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20iPmh0dHA6Ly9m b3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KDQpocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29u dHJpYnV0aW9uIj5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vYw0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:15 AM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper sorry for me being nieve, but what or who is the great waldo pepper? never seen the movie so I don't know. As far as my project I have 9 ribs and I ha ve more to do so I will be at the-number-10 mark. I will only be making -14 regular ribs then after that then I move I onto the ailerons. Which r eminds me I will have to order more glue I think.=0Atake care,=0ABen =0APie t in progress........To Be Continued.=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message --- -=0AFrom: Dave Abramson =0ATo: pietenpol-list@m atronics.com=0ASent: Friday, August 1, 2008 8:19:19 AM=0ASubject: RE: Piete npol-List: Waldo Pepper=0A=0A=0AWe need the charactor names before their li nes!!!! =0A-=0AAxel, Mary-Beth, and Waldo!!!=0A-=0ADo not Archive=0A- =0A-=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat ronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A MsafetyC@aol.com=0ASent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:49 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-li st@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper=0A=0A-=0A- =0AIn a message dated 7/31/2008 9:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, minoxph otographer@yahoo.com writes:=0AFor those who might think a Wynne manual is expensive, a $40 movie certainly would be! =0A-=0A-=0AI doubt you'll ev er hear anyone quote lines for the head torque pattern or timing gear secti ons of the book=0AWhat are you doing, I'm borrowing your plane son, its an inferior model but it ill do, Dillhoffer promised me a job, you 're not goi ng anywhere with my plane... You're both starving why not help each other =0AWhat would we do? your plane is down for repair and my engine is giving me fits..... Actually I have some ideas on the subject.=0A-=0ALets get th is straight, you're just flying, she's just driving, I'm the one doing a gr eat stunt, that why you're getting all the glory son=0A-=0A-=0A-=0AJo hn=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AGet fantasy fo otball with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. =0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronic s.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contr =======================0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:29 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper ?????? (just shoot me now) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Recine Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper All three Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _____ From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper What we really need is some connection between the message and the reply. Talk about a non-sequitur. Do Not Archive this either. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Abramson Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 9:19 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper We need the charactor names before their lines!!!! Axel, Mary-Beth, and Waldo!!! Do not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper In a message dated 7/31/2008 9:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, minoxphotographer@yahoo.com writes: For those who might think a Wynne manual is expensive, a $40 movie certainly would be! I doubt you'll ever hear anyone quote lines for the head torque pattern or timing gear sections of the book What are you doing, I'm borrowing your plane son, its an inferior model but it ill do, Dillhoffer promised me a job, you 're not going anywhere with my plane... You're both starving why not help each other What would we do? your plane is down for repair and my engine is giving me fits..... Actually I have some ideas on the subject. Lets get this straight, you're just flying, she's just driving, I'm the one doing a great stunt, that why you're getting all the glory son John _____ Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today . href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD,=DE=AE=E9=A2=A2=EF =BDP ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper From: "John Recine" SSBkb24ndCBrbm93IG9mIGFueW9uZSBpbiB0aGUgbW92aWUgc2F5aW5nIHRoYXQNCj8/Pz8/Pz8N Cg0KU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZlcml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3MgQmxhY2tCZXJyeQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdp bmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogIkJpbGwgQ2h1cmNoIiA8ZW5nQGNhbmFkaWFucm9nZXJz LmNvbT4NCg0KRGF0ZTogRnJpLCAxIEF1ZyAyMDA4IDExOjMxOjUyIA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wt bGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBXYWxkbyBQ ZXBwZXINCg0KDQo/Pz8/Pz8NCiANCihqdXN0IHNob290IG1lIG5vdykNCg0KX19fX18gIA0KDQpG cm9tOiBvd25lci1waWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSBbbWFpbHRvOm93 bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgSm9o biBSZWNpbmUNClNlbnQ6IEZyaWRheSwgQXVndXN0IDAxLCAyMDA4IDEwOjU0IEFNDQpUbzogcGll dGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBX YWxkbyBQZXBwZXINCg0KDQpBbGwgdGhyZWUNCg0KDQoNClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdp cmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCg0KDQpfX19fXyAgDQoNCkZyb206ICJCaWxsIENodXJjaCIgPGVu Z0BjYW5hZGlhbnJvZ2Vycy5jb20+DQpEYXRlOiBGcmksIDEgQXVnIDIwMDggMDk6MzU6MzIgLTA0 MDANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBQaWV0 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ZXRzIGdldCB0aGlzIHN0cmFpZ2h0LCB5b3UncmUganVzdCBmbHlpbmcsIHNoZSdzIGp1c3QgZHJp dmluZywgSSdtIHRoZSBvbmUgZG9pbmcgYSBncmVhdCBzdHVudCwgdGhhdCB3aHkgeW91J3JlIGdl dHRpbmcgYWxsIHRoZSBnbG9yeSBzb24NCiANCiANCiANCkpvaG4NCg0KDQogDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K X19fX18gIA0KDQpHZXQgZmFudGFzeSBmb290YmFsbCB3aXRoIGZyZWUgbGl2ZSBzY29yaW5nLiBT aWduIHVwIGZvciBGYW5Ib3VzZSBGYW50YXN5IEZvb3RiYWxsIHRvZGF5IDxodHRwOi8vd3d3LmZh bmhvdXNlLmNvbS9mYW50YXN5YWZmYWlyP25jaWQ9YW9sc3ByMDAwNTAwMDAwMDAwMjA+IC4NCiAg aHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCI+ aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBocmVmPSJo dHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20iPmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSBo cmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uIj5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1h dHJvbmljcy5jb20vYw0KDQogIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0 b3I/UGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QiPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/UGll dGVucG9sLUxpc3QgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIj5odHRwOi8vZm9y dW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1 dGlvbiI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2MNCiAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3Mu Y29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29u dHJpYnV0aW9uID09PT09PT09PT09IA0K77+977+977+9fu+/ve+/ve+/vSzerumiou+/vVANCg0K ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:04 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper Waldo Pepper (Robert Redford) feels he has missed out on the glory of aerial combat in World War I after being made a flight instructor. When the fighting ends, Waldo has taken up barnstorming to make a living. He soon tangles with rival barnstormer Axel Olsson (Bo Svenson). The two eventually wind up flying for the traveling air show owned by Dillhoefer (Philip Bruns). In an effort to attract bigger crowds, Dillhoefer introduces several young ladies into the show, including Mary Beth (Susan Sarandon) and Patsy (Kelly Jean Peters). As the show moves from town to town, and the crew practices new stunts, they experience problems, errors, and crashes. As a result of the death of Mary Beth during a wing walking stunt, Waldo is grounded by a federal aviation inspector, a man from Waldo's past named Newt (Geoffrey Lewis). Waldo ultimately loses his pilot's license, but this doesn't stop him from flying for very long. Under an alias, Waldo gets a job as a stunt pilot in a Hollywood film depicting the air battles of the Great War. Famous German air ace Ernst Kessler (Bo Brundin) has also been hired by the producers, as a consultant and to fly a Fokker Dr. I replica. The disillusioned, bitter and heavy drinking depiction of Kessler is based on the real German ace and stunt flier Ernst Udet. During filming of a famous wartime duel, though their fighters are unarmed, Waldo and Kessler begin dogfighting in deadly earnest, using their airplanes as weapons. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:24 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper From: "Phillips, Jack" Ben, there is no difference between the ribs at the ailerons and the rest of them. The wing is built intact, then the airlerons are cut free. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper sorry for me being nieve, but what or who is the great waldo pepper? never seen the movie so I don't know. As far as my project I have 9 ribs and I have more to do so I will be at the number 10 mark. I will only be making 14 regular ribs then after that then I move I onto the ailerons. Which reminds me I will have to order more glue I think. take care, Ben Piet in progress........To Be Continued. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave Abramson Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 8:19:19 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper We need the charactor names before their lines!!!! Axel, Mary-Beth, and Waldo!!! Do not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:49 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper In a message dated 7/31/2008 9:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, minoxphotographer@yahoo.com writes: For those who might think a Wynne manual is expensive, a $40 movie certainly would be! I doubt you'll ever hear anyone quote lines for the head torque pattern or timing gear sections of the book What are you doing, I'm borrowing your plane son, its an inferior model but it ill do, Dillhoffer promised me a job, you 're not going anywhere with my plane... You're both starving why not help each other What would we do? your plane is down for repair and my engine is giving me fits..... Actually I have some ideas on the subject. Lets get this straight, you're just flying, she's just driving, I'm the one doing a great stunt, that why you're getting all the glory son John _____ Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today . href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href= "http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:08 AM PST US From: "Dave Abramson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper That's it in a nutshell!!!!!!!!!!!! do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of H RULE Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:09 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper Waldo Pepper (Robert Redford) feels he has missed out on the glory of aerial combat in World War I after being made a flight instructor. When the fighting ends, Waldo has taken up barnstorming to make a living. He soon tangles with rival barnstormer Axel Olsson (Bo Svenson). The two eventually wind up flying for the traveling air show owned by Dillhoefer (Philip Bruns). In an effort to attract bigger crowds, Dillhoefer introduces several young ladies into the show, including Mary Beth (Susan Sarandon) and Patsy (Kelly Jean Peters). As the show moves from town to town, and the crew practices new stunts, they experience problems, errors, and crashes. As a result of the death of Mary Beth during a wing walking stunt, Waldo is grounded by a federal aviation inspector, a man from Waldo's past named Newt (Geoffrey Lewis). Waldo ultimately loses his pilot's license, but this doesn't stop him from flying for very long. Under an alias, Waldo gets a job as a stunt pilot in a Hollywood film depicting the air battles of the Great War. Famous German air ace Ernst Kessler (Bo Brundin) has also been hired by the producers, as a consultant and to fly a Fokker Dr. I replica. The disillusioned, bitter and heavy drinking depiction of Kessler is based on the real German ace and stunt flier Ernst Udet. During filming of a famous wartime duel, though their fighters are unarmed, Waldo and Kessler begin dogfighting in deadly earnest, using their airplanes as weapons. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:45 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper It certainly looses a bunch in the nutshell version In a message dated 8/1/2008 2:06:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, davea@symbolicdisplays.com writes: That's it in a nutshell!!!!!!!!!!!! do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of H RULE Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:09 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:The Great Waldo Pepper Waldo Pepper (Robert Redford) feels he has missed out on the glory of aerial combat in _World War I_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I) after being made a flight instructor. When the fighting ends, Waldo has taken up _barnstorming_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnstorming) to make a living. He soon tangles with rival barnstormer Axel Olsson (_Bo Svenson_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Svenson) ). The two eventually wind up flying for the traveling air show owned by Dillhoefer (_Philip Bruns_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Bruns) ). In an effort to attract bigger crowds, Dillhoefer introduces several young ladies into the show, including Mary Beth (_Susan Sarandon_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Sarandon) ) and Patsy (Kelly Jean Peters). As the show moves from town to town, and the crew practices new stunts, they experience problems, errors, and crashes. As a result of the death of Mary Beth during a _wing walking_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_walking) stunt, Waldo is grounded by a federal aviation inspector, a man from Waldo's past named Newt (_Geoffrey Lewis_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Lewis_(actor)) ). Waldo ultimately loses his pilot's license, but this doesn't stop him from flying for very long. Under an alias, Waldo gets a job as a stunt pilot in a _Hollywood_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood) film depicting the air battles of the Great War. Famous German air ace Ernst Kessler (Bo Brundin) has also been hired by the producers, as a consultant and to fly a _Fokker Dr. I_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_Triplane) replica. The disillusioned, bitter and heavy drinking depiction of Kessler is based on the real German ace and stunt flier _Ernst Udet_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Udet) . During filming of a famous wartime duel, though their fighters are unarmed, Waldo and Kessler begin _dogfighting_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfight) in deadly earnest, using their airplanes as weapons. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures From: "Phillips, Jack" OK, I'll try again to post some low resolution pictures (out of respect for those who suffer from dial-up modems) from last weekend's Brodhead Pietenpol Extravaganza: The grass was green, the mosquitos were plentiful and hungry, and the Pietenpols were in abundance (at least more so than the Hatz Biplanes). Here is a picture of the field: <> Here is what it looked like from my Pietenpol at 300' AGL: <> There was good food, and good camaraderie. And lots of Piet builders taking pictures and making notes from every flying Pietenpol on the field (I think there were a total of 14 Piets there): <> By the way, on the way home I went by Jackson, TN to visit my Mom. Coming out of there Monday morning, Flight Service forecast "a few clouds at 600' ". By the time I got to the Tennessee River at Clifton, this is what I found: <> Shortly after that picture was taken, it walled in all around me and I was suddenly in full IMC. If I didn't have a Turn & Bank indicator I don't know what I would have done. As it was, I did a 180 and went back to Jackson to wait for it to clear up. Made it back home Tuesday afternoon. In 5 days I put a little over 34 hours on the airplane and flew just over 1900 miles. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:58 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures Didn't know a Piet could go that high! That's encouraging...;<) Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (11 ribs down.) _____ <> Shortly after that picture was taken, it walled in all around me and I was suddenly in full IMC. If I didn't have a Turn & Bank indicator I don't know what I would have done. As it was, I did a 180 and went back to Jackson to wait for it to clear up. Made it back home Tuesday afternoon. In 5 days I put a little over 34 hours on the airplane and flew just over 1900 miles. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:41 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures Jack:Great photos! I especially enjoyed the one looking down on the field from your 'camper. I am curious though about the two runways that are marked closed with the big "X's". Was this just a traffic control issue or were they actually in bad shape? Tom Stinemetze do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:10 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures From: "Phillips, Jack" Actually, I was at about 2,000' when that picture was made. Those clouds were really low (or I would have just gone under them when they started forming). I was near the Tennessee River and I suspect that over the river they went all the way down to the deck Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures Didn't know a Piet could go that high! That's encouraging.....;<) Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (11 ribs down...) _____ <> Shortly after that picture was taken, it walled in all around me and I was suddenly in full IMC. If I didn't have a Turn & Bank indicator I don't know what I would have done. As it was, I did a 180 and went back to Jackson to wait for it to clear up. Made it back home Tuesday afternoon. In 5 days I put a little over 34 hours on the airplane and flew just over 1900 miles. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:41 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures From: "Phillips, Jack" They always close those runways during the fly-in and use them as taxiways and for transient aircraft parking. They leave the long (2400') runway open and use it, regardless of wind direction. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures Jack:Great photos! I especially enjoyed the one looking down on the field from your 'camper. I am curious though about the two runways that are marked closed with the big "X's". Was this just a traffic control issue or were they actually in bad shape? Tom Stinemetze do not archive _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:59 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: I've decided to "bump up" the top of my center section fuel tank, moth style, to get another hour. Now that the top will visible, I want it to look decent. My problem is that when I weld the cap flange to the top of the curved section, it distorts the top something fierce. I'm tig welding aluminum. I'm going to try again with the top flat on my welding table and the flange clamped down. I was thinking I'd cut the hole later which might help keep things in position. Any ideas on how to get a nice distortion free top? Douwe ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title From: "Bill Church" Douwe, Any chance you could snap a picture to show what kind of distortion you're getting, and what the application looks like? It would really help in terms of offering pertinent advise. Is the tank fully welded other than the filler, or is the top of the tank not yet attached to the rest of the tank? The usual way to deal with welding distortion is twofold, especially with aluminum, which requires more heat to weld than steel or stainless. First, you should expect that there will be some distortion. If you are expecting to have a perfect, smooth, distortion-free weld that requires no post-weld correction, you are likely to be disappointed every time. Knowing the ways that welds will act allows you to use methods that can minimize that distortion. Using TIG will help, because the weld is more concentrated. The first step is to tack-weld the two pieces together in as many places as possible, to minimize movement as you do the final seam welding. After the pieces are tacked together, check for positioning, and adjust with a small hammer as required. When you are happy with the positioning, you can weld off the entire joint. Since this weld's primary function is to be liquid-proof, rather than structural, make the welds as small as possible. Secondly, the most effective method of removing weld distortion is through the use of a sophisticated set of instruments called a hammer and a backing bar (or block). The extreme, localized heat of welding puts a lot of stresses into the metal in and around the weld. In the areas where the weld shrinks the metal, you need to stretch it back to it's pre-weld state. This is where the hammer and backing bar come in. Of course, the best approach might be to take an entirely different approach, and install a flanged filler neck, which would be attached with mechanical fasteners - eliminating the welding, and all the distortion that goes with it. Here's a link to the way Jim Markle did his. Looks good to me. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=396&PlaneID=52 Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196081#196081 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:28 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Pietenpol-List: test test walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:35 PM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: Pietenpol-List: my project Evening Everyone, I want to apologize and take back the statement when I said that we were shortening the wing. That indeed was a misstep on my part and I wanted to clarify. What I am going is that after the 14th rib is made dad and I would look at what is the best to proceed in the rib construction. My dad would would like to modify the jig and build the ribs where the aileron will be place. Alternatively we could do what Ben C and Hans have suggested and just take a saw to it we will just have to wait and see. On another note who what the great waldo pepper. I gather that its a movie but thats all I know I have never seen it. take care & Happy Building or flying, Ben in MN ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:48 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Pietenpol-List: project progress Everyone: Had a wonderful time at Brodhead, but didn't get to talk to everyone, always a disappointment. It is amazing that no matter how many times you go and look at often the same Piets, depending on what point you are in on your own project, you see new details that you never noticed before. I learned a LOT this trip! After returning, I blasted, primed, and painted all of my steel parts (well, almost all). Today, I started bolting things on PERMANENTLY!! Before I did, though, I weighed my fuselage. Mine is a short fuselage, with only minor modifications. No fittings whatsoever, only wood and varnish, my completed fuselage weighs 33.6 lbs. according to my digital bathroom scale. I know there have been postings on here with fuselage weights, but I am too lazy to look them up right now. How does this compare to others??? My biggest problem is that I will not have another day off until next Thursday to go out and work again, bummer!! Gene ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title From: "mr-fix-all" I was reading you post about the aluminum warping when you weld it, a friend of mine works for LifeLine ambulance where they scratch build ambulances. they had the same problem when welding the window and door frames in the large panels of aluminum. The solution was surprisingly low tech. They have large pieces of 2x6 rectangular aluminum tubing that they have capped on both ends which they filled with water then freeze them they clamp the frozen tubes about 1 inch away from the seam and weld. works like a charm. Jake -------- "Be who you are and say what you think, those that mind don't matter, and those that matter don't mind" Dr. Seuss Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196111#196111 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:04 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:13 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.