Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:51 AM - How hard is it to get into the front seat (charles loomis)
2. 04:13 AM - Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (gcardinal)
3. 04:24 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (gcardinal)
4. 04:26 AM - Re: Re: Ribs and sanding (Phillips, Jack)
5. 04:28 AM - Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (John Recine)
6. 05:43 AM - Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (walt)
7. 07:06 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Pieti Lowell)
8. 07:24 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Tim Willis)
9. 07:35 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Phillips, Jack)
10. 07:38 AM - Re: fuel drain locations (Pieti Lowell)
11. 07:56 AM - Re: best movie scenes (Pieti Lowell)
12. 08:06 AM - Re: Frued table saw blades (Pieti Lowell)
13. 08:23 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Bill Church)
14. 08:29 AM - Re: Roll Call (Pieti Lowell)
15. 08:37 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Tim Willis)
16. 09:23 AM - ribs and ailerons (Ben Ramler)
17. 09:39 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Kip and Beth Gardner)
18. 10:02 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (John Franklin)
19. 10:05 AM - Model A mag timing (HelsperSew@aol.com)
20. 10:08 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Phillips, Jack)
21. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: project (Rick Holland)
22. 10:57 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Ed G.)
23. 11:33 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Tom Bernie)
24. 11:48 AM - Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Tom Anderson)
25. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Kip and Beth Gardner)
26. 02:07 PM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Ben Ramler)
27. 02:07 PM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Ben Ramler)
28. 02:39 PM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Bill Church)
29. 02:59 PM - Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Don Emch)
30. 03:06 PM - Just for kicks (Don Emch)
31. 03:16 PM - Re: Model A mag timing (Pieti Lowell)
32. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (walt)
33. 03:23 PM - Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Jim Ash)
34. 03:27 PM - Re: Just for kicks (walt)
35. 03:29 PM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Ben Ramler)
36. 03:32 PM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Ben Ramler)
37. 03:54 PM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Bill Church)
38. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: Roll Call (Chet's Mail)
39. 04:28 PM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Rick Holland)
40. 04:32 PM - Re: Just for kicks (Rick Holland)
41. 05:21 PM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Jack Phillips)
42. 05:33 PM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (charles loomis)
43. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Jeff Boatright)
44. 07:29 PM - Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Kip and Beth Gardner)
45. 07:45 PM - Re: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (gcardinal)
46. 09:15 PM - intercom (Dick Navratil)
47. 09:34 PM - Re: intercom (Peter W Johnson)
48. 09:45 PM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Ben Ramler)
49. 10:04 PM - Re: Re: Ribs and sanding (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | How hard is it to get into the front seat |
I think I remember seeing a video showing that it was pretty difficult. The reason
I ask is because my misses is not the most flexible person and she has a bad
back. I really wish to build a Pietenpol with a Model A engine, but I also
want to take her flying and show her why there is nothing else like it.
Charley
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Charley,
Keri-Ann Price sells plans for a modification to add a door to the passenger
seat. Her website is:
http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Pietenpol_Plan_Packages.html
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "charles loomis" <rameses32@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How hard is it to get into the front seat
>
> I think I remember seeing a video showing that it was pretty difficult.
> The reason I ask is because my misses is not the most flexible person and
> she has a bad back. I really wish to build a Pietenpol with a Model A
> engine, but I also want to take her flying and show her why there is
> nothing else like it.
> Charley
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Homemade Turnbuckles |
Bill,
Dale Johnson built a pull tester for testing the cables on NX18235. We
also used it to test some homemade turnbuckle barrels.
Dale would be happy to do a test on one or more of your turnbuckles.
Let me know if you are interested.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:34 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Ken,
I kind of got sidetracked away from the homemade turnbuckles for a
while, and I've actually been building my tailfeathers. So, the short
answer to your question is "No, I haven't".
Having said that, here's the long answer.
I didn't do any strength calculations, but I have a strong feeling
that the turnbuckles as I made them will be sufficient in strength, but
I have yet to do some real-world pull testing to see what they can
safely handle. Before I do the pull test I wanted to refine the design a
bit to make them a bit more user friendly. That way I'll be testing the
proper part, not just something similar. I still plan to do it, just not
right now. If you need an answer right now, I think just about anyone
could make up a set of these in a short period of time, and then do
their own testing using a simple apparatus (lever and pivot). When I do
get around to revising the design and doing the pull-testing, I'll share
the results with the list.
If you want more details about how I made the prototype, let me know.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide,
BA, CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:37 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Bill,
Have you nailed down the materials (thickness, width, length,
rod size, etc) to manufacture the turnbuckles for the tail section?
After seeing the price for the turnbuckles on Aircraft Spruce and
others, I think making my own would be a great idea... any assistance?
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ribs and sanding |
Look on the back. Most quality sandpaper will have the grit size printed on the
back. It will be a number ranging from 60 (very coarse) to 600 (extremely fine).
Do you have the Tony Bingelis books? If not, you should buy them.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs and sanding
Sorry Everyone,
Yep that is what I was asking. just dealing with sanding then gluing. I am building
with douglas fir so spruce is of no concern to me. Another question I am
unsure of what grit of sandpaper I am using, and my dad is unsure to. If I can
describe it by its color the sandpaper I am using is a grey color.
take care,
Ben
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 9:30:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs and sanding
Not sure if I should step into this one, since it looks like there is some confusion,
but here goes anyway.
I'm going to assume that Ben's question has to do with sanding the bonding surface
of the plywood gussets for his wing ribs. If that's right, then Glenn's reply
is what you're looking for. Just scuff up the surface, since plywood can have
a "glazed" surface as it is received. This glazed surface just needs to be
scratched a bit to permit the epoxy to penetrate the plywood and make a decent
bond. You shouldn't really be removing material from the plywood, just making
it more bond-able.
Gary's comments refer more to glue joints for end-grain spruce (or whatever softwood
you are building with). When spruce is sawn, the end grain has open pores
which will absorb the adhesive. If the end is sanded (and especially if the
wood gets burned in sanding), the pores tend to get clogged, which impedes the
absorption of the adhesive. If the epoxy doesn't "bite" into the wood, the joint
will not achieve the strength that is needed. That is a bad thing.
So, Ben, if you are asking about sanding the "gluing side" of the plywood gussets,
then, yes you should sand them, like Glenn said. If that's not what you're
asking, then maybe you need to re-state your question more clearly.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196540#196540
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Charley
For what its worth I was considering the door also. I was just really concerned
reluctant to cut the upper longeron weakening the structure for an occasional
rider. That thought was reaffirmed by my tech councelor. You may want to reconsider
that also
John
------Original Message------
From: gcardinal
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Aug 5, 2008 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How hard is it to get into the front seat
Charley,
Keri-Ann Price sells plans for a modification to add a door to the passenger
seat. Her website is:
http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Pietenpol_Plan_Packages.html
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "charles loomis" <rameses32@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How hard is it to get into the front seat
>
> I think I remember seeing a video showing that it was pretty difficult.
> The reason I ask is because my misses is not the most flexible person and
> she has a bad back. I really wish to build a Pietenpol with a Model A
> engine, but I also want to take her flying and show her why there is
> nothing else like it.
> Charley
>
>
>
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Charley,
I've found that if a person really wants to get in they will.
I added a step on the rear gear leg that really helps.
Good friend of mine of 35 years, was the last of the people not to get polio
shots.
His legs are shriveled and only 50% there.
But he wanted to get in and he did. Had a great time.
But then he couldn't get out! Me and a friend, grabbed him and lifted him
out.
A fun time was had by all.
Big thing about the Piet that no one had discussed, is the tight room for
your feet on the rudder with a big butt sitting there.
Once had to make up a feeble excuse about the winds aloft, cause I couldn't
take a big-butted lady, who would have loved a ride
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "charles loomis" <rameses32@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How hard is it to get into the front seat
>
> I think I remember seeing a video showing that it was pretty difficult.
> The reason I ask is because my misses is not the most flexible person and
> she has a bad back. I really wish to build a Pietenpol with a Model A
> engine, but I also want to take her flying and show her why there is
> nothing else like it.
> Charley
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Homemade Turnbuckles |
Has anyone talked with Frank Pavliga ? His Piet used 3/32 cable to cross angle
support the cabanes, and had to keep tightening because of stretch, and replaced
them after a few hours of flight. Do other applications of 3/32 cable experience
the same problem ? Don't chance it.
Allen Rudolf's piet still flys with 1/8 Th" cables and the plane weights under
640 Lbs. And will fly two people on a 90 Deg. day with a standard Ford A just
turning 1950 RPM.
Pieti Lowell[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196610#196610
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Homemade Turnbuckles |
In theory, we should be able to build stronger turnbuckles than standard aircraft
ones. The A/C turnbuckles are made of brass. Their male threads are rolled,
making them stronger than the cut threads we would make. However, I believe
the female (tapped) threads are cut. That would likely be the wekaer link,
and more likely to strip in tension. Moreover, brass is has less tensile and
shering strength than either steel or stainless steel.
Building our own turnbuckles out of stainless steel (female) and a cap bolt (male)
might be the best of all worlds. The high quality steel cap bolt (socket
head) has rolled threads and is case hardened, as well. The mating female part
(homemade) has cut threads, but the S.S. material is much stronger than the
brass. Moreover, the builder might experiment with slightly undersize tap drills
to achieve nearly interference fit (more thread-to-thread surface). This
last step might not be practical, and a real tap-breaker, but perhaps a worthy
experiment.
Also, as in the demontrated design, the homebuilder can make the straps that carry
the loads on the ends of the entire turnbuckle assembly as thick and wide
as needed.
Of course, as stated first in this note... this is only THEORY, and that is why
testing is so important.
If it works, the proper homemade turnbuckle would be not only cheaper, but better
than store-bought aircraft quality. It would also be more in keeping with
the barndoor hinge, baling wire, and oatmeal carton LE heritage of the Piet itself.
Note, though, that this is definitely NOT an appeal for Home Depot turnbuckles.
Tim in central Texas
-----Original Message-----
>From: gcardinal <gcardinal@comcast.net>
>Sent: Aug 5, 2008 6:22 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>Bill,
>
>Dale Johnson built a pull tester for testing the cables on NX18235. We also used
it to test some homemade turnbuckle barrels.
>Dale would be happy to do a test on one or more of your turnbuckles.
>Let me know if you are interested.
>
>Greg Cardinal
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Church
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:34 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>
> Ken,
>
> I kind of got sidetracked away from the homemade turnbuckles for a while, and
I've actually been building my tailfeathers. So, the short answer to your question
is "No, I haven't".
> Having said that, here's the long answer.
> I didn't do any strength calculations, but I have a strong feeling that the
turnbuckles as I made them will be sufficient in strength, but I have yet to do
some real-world pull testing to see what they can safely handle. Before I do
the pull test I wanted to refine the design a bit to make them a bit more user
friendly. That way I'll be testing the proper part, not just something similar.
I still plan to do it, just not right now. If you need an answer right now,
I think just about anyone could make up a set of these in a short period of
time, and then do their own testing using a simple apparatus (lever and pivot).
When I do get around to revising the design and doing the pull-testing, I'll
share the results with the list.
> If you want more details about how I made the prototype, let me know.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:37 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Have you nailed down the materials (thickness, width, length, rod size,
etc) to manufacture the turnbuckles for the tail section? After seeing the price
for the turnbuckles on Aircraft Spruce and others, I think making my own
would be a great idea... any assistance?
>
>
> Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Homemade Turnbuckles |
Maybe this would be an area for the CozyGirrrls to make some parts.
There are several dozen turnbuckles required to build a Pietenpol, and
they could offer a turnbuckle kit.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Willis
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
In theory, we should be able to build stronger turnbuckles than standard
aircraft ones. The A/C turnbuckles are made of brass. Their male
threads are rolled, making them stronger than the cut threads we would
make. However, I believe the female (tapped) threads are cut. That
would likely be the wekaer link, and more likely to strip in tension.
Moreover, brass is has less tensile and shering strength than either
steel or stainless steel.
Building our own turnbuckles out of stainless steel (female) and a cap
bolt (male) might be the best of all worlds. The high quality steel cap
bolt (socket head) has rolled threads and is case hardened, as well.
The mating female part (homemade) has cut threads, but the S.S. material
is much stronger than the brass. Moreover, the builder might experiment
with slightly undersize tap drills to achieve nearly interference fit
(more thread-to-thread surface). This last step might not be practical,
and a real tap-breaker, but perhaps a worthy experiment.
Also, as in the demontrated design, the homebuilder can make the straps
that carry the loads on the ends of the entire turnbuckle assembly as
thick and wide as needed.
Of course, as stated first in this note... this is only THEORY, and that
is why testing is so important.
If it works, the proper homemade turnbuckle would be not only cheaper,
but better than store-bought aircraft quality. It would also be more in
keeping with the barndoor hinge, baling wire, and oatmeal carton LE
heritage of the Piet itself. Note, though, that this is definitely NOT
an appeal for Home Depot turnbuckles.
Tim in central Texas
-----Original Message-----
>From: gcardinal <gcardinal@comcast.net>
>Sent: Aug 5, 2008 6:22 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>Bill,
>
>Dale Johnson built a pull tester for testing the cables on NX18235. We
also used it to test some homemade turnbuckle barrels.
>Dale would be happy to do a test on one or more of your turnbuckles.
>Let me know if you are interested.
>
>Greg Cardinal
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Church
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:34 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>
> Ken,
>
> I kind of got sidetracked away from the homemade turnbuckles for a
while, and I've actually been building my tailfeathers. So, the short
answer to your question is "No, I haven't".
> Having said that, here's the long answer.
> I didn't do any strength calculations, but I have a strong feeling
that the turnbuckles as I made them will be sufficient in strength, but
I have yet to do some real-world pull testing to see what they can
safely handle. Before I do the pull test I wanted to refine the design a
bit to make them a bit more user friendly. That way I'll be testing the
proper part, not just something similar. I still plan to do it, just not
right now. If you need an answer right now, I think just about anyone
could make up a set of these in a short period of time, and then do
their own testing using a simple apparatus (lever and pivot). When I do
get around to revising the design and doing the pull-testing, I'll share
the results with the list.
> If you want more details about how I made the prototype, let me know.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide,
BA, CPO, FAAOP
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:37 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Have you nailed down the materials (thickness, width, length,
rod size, etc) to manufacture the turnbuckles for the tail section?
After seeing the price for the turnbuckles on Aircraft Spruce and
others, I think making my own would be a great idea... any assistance?
>
>
> Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: fuel drain locations |
Hi Douwe,
I have placed fuel outlets in most locations and finally just use the rear right,
because a boarding passenger will hit the left rear with his shoulder, and
if you fly with the ball in the center either rear locations will work. The center
location, "Allen Rudolf's " will get tagged very often by a passenger boarding.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196620#196620
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: best movie scenes |
If you want to see some neat Piet flying, take a gander at " Red Betsy ", Ted Davis
did the flights in this movie. Type the title in the search web.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196625#196625
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Frued table saw blades |
You are quite right, I use a 80 tooth carbide to saw my spars from a 6"X 2-1/2"
X 14 Ft. Lg. Sitkus, when I flipped the beam over and reversed ends the surface
never needed a plane job.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196627#196627
Message 13
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| Subject: | Homemade Turnbuckles |
Tim,
Now you've got me re-energized and ready to get back to work on the
turnbuckle prototyping, with a new twist.
I'm going to try making one from oatmeal cartons and stove bolts!
Or not.
Actually there's no need to make them stronger than A/C turnbuckles, just
equal. But the use of higher strength materials (st.st. vs brass) could
allow for some weight savings, based on a strength to weight basis.
Stainless steel will provide necessary corrosion resistance, like brass,
since most of the turnbuckles are exposed to the elements. Using smaller tap
drills will definitely become a source of extreme frustration for anyone
working with stainless steel, and the cost of broken taps will very quickly
exceed the cost of buying A/C turnbuckles.
One feature that I have not yet figured out is a method to safety wire such
a homemade turnbuckle.
I don't actually anticipate doing any further development on my prototypes
until sometime later in the fall, when it gets too cold out in the garage
for epoxy to cure. When I have some results, I'll share them with the list.
But that doesn't mean someone else can't go ahead with their own ideas /
prototypes / testing.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
--> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
In theory, we should be able to build stronger turnbuckles than standard
aircraft ones. The A/C turnbuckles are made of brass. Their male threads
are rolled, making them stronger than the cut threads we would make.
However, I believe the female (tapped) threads are cut. That would likely
be the wekaer link, and more likely to strip in tension. Moreover, brass is
has less tensile and shering strength than either steel or stainless steel.
Building our own turnbuckles out of stainless steel (female) and a cap bolt
(male) might be the best of all worlds. The high quality steel cap bolt
(socket head) has rolled threads and is case hardened, as well. The mating
female part (homemade) has cut threads, but the S.S. material is much
stronger than the brass. Moreover, the builder might experiment with
slightly undersize tap drills to achieve nearly interference fit (more
thread-to-thread surface). This last step might not be practical, and a
real tap-breaker, but perhaps a worthy experiment.
Also, as in the demontrated design, the homebuilder can make the straps that
carry the loads on the ends of the entire turnbuckle assembly as thick and
wide as needed.
Of course, as stated first in this note... this is only THEORY, and that is
why testing is so important.
If it works, the proper homemade turnbuckle would be not only cheaper, but
better than store-bought aircraft quality. It would also be more in keeping
with the barndoor hinge, baling wire, and oatmeal carton LE heritage of the
Piet itself. Note, though, that this is definitely NOT an appeal for Home
Depot turnbuckles.
Tim in central Texas
Message 14
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Chet,
Have you:
Set timing at 28 Deg ?
Cleaned the casting out from the water inlet with a stiff wire ?
Use a Ford T water pump in place of the A pump ?
Check head gasket and H2O openings.in castings ?
Radiator clean and large enough ?
Auto fuel ?
I run a Ford B supped- up to 90 HP and when it ran hot,In the water pump I found
one impeller of two broke off, welded it on, solved problem, I use a Funk pump,
externally mounted, like the "T" pump, which I have used in the past with
success.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196633#196633
Message 15
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| Subject: | Homemade Turnbuckles |
Bill, you won't need to safety wire them-- use oatmeal itself as "loctite."
Tim
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>Sent: Aug 5, 2008 10:20 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>Tim,
>
>Now you've got me re-energized and ready to get back to work on the
>turnbuckle prototyping, with a new twist.
>I'm going to try making one from oatmeal cartons and stove bolts!
>
>Or not.
>
>Actually there's no need to make them stronger than A/C turnbuckles, just
>equal. But the use of higher strength materials (st.st. vs brass) could
>allow for some weight savings, based on a strength to weight basis.
>Stainless steel will provide necessary corrosion resistance, like brass,
>since most of the turnbuckles are exposed to the elements. Using smaller tap
>drills will definitely become a source of extreme frustration for anyone
>working with stainless steel, and the cost of broken taps will very quickly
>exceed the cost of buying A/C turnbuckles.
>
>One feature that I have not yet figured out is a method to safety wire such
>a homemade turnbuckle.
>
>I don't actually anticipate doing any further development on my prototypes
>until sometime later in the fall, when it gets too cold out in the garage
>for epoxy to cure. When I have some results, I'll share them with the list.
>But that doesn't mean someone else can't go ahead with their own ideas /
>prototypes / testing.
>
>Bill C.
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
>Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:22 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>--> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
>In theory, we should be able to build stronger turnbuckles than standard
>aircraft ones. The A/C turnbuckles are made of brass. Their male threads
>are rolled, making them stronger than the cut threads we would make.
>However, I believe the female (tapped) threads are cut. That would likely
>be the wekaer link, and more likely to strip in tension. Moreover, brass is
>has less tensile and shering strength than either steel or stainless steel.
>
>
>Building our own turnbuckles out of stainless steel (female) and a cap bolt
>(male) might be the best of all worlds. The high quality steel cap bolt
>(socket head) has rolled threads and is case hardened, as well. The mating
>female part (homemade) has cut threads, but the S.S. material is much
>stronger than the brass. Moreover, the builder might experiment with
>slightly undersize tap drills to achieve nearly interference fit (more
>thread-to-thread surface). This last step might not be practical, and a
>real tap-breaker, but perhaps a worthy experiment.
>
>Also, as in the demontrated design, the homebuilder can make the straps that
>carry the loads on the ends of the entire turnbuckle assembly as thick and
>wide as needed.
>
>Of course, as stated first in this note... this is only THEORY, and that is
>why testing is so important.
>
>If it works, the proper homemade turnbuckle would be not only cheaper, but
>better than store-bought aircraft quality. It would also be more in keeping
>with the barndoor hinge, baling wire, and oatmeal carton LE heritage of the
>Piet itself. Note, though, that this is definitely NOT an appeal for Home
>Depot turnbuckles.
>
>Tim in central Texas
Message 16
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
Afternoon Group,
Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the ribs need to be
set aside for the ailerons?
73,
Ben in MN
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
Ben,
Check the plans, the ailerons are built integral with the wing and
cut out after you have completed building & trammeling the wing. I'm
not there yet, but maybe someone else on the list can expain the
process.
Kip Gardner
On Aug 5, 2008, at 12:20 PM, Ben Ramler wrote:
> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> Afternoon Group,
> Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the
> ribs need to be set aside for the ailerons?
> 73,
> Ben in MN
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Homemade Turnbuckles |
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Aug 5, 2008 9:21 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>
>In theory, we should be able to build stronger turnbuckles than standard aircraft
ones. The A/C turnbuckles are made of brass. Their male threads are rolled,
making them stronger than the cut threads we would make. However, I believe
the female (tapped) threads are cut. That would likely be the wekaer link,
and more likely to strip in tension. Moreover, brass is has less tensile and
shering strength than either steel or stainless steel.
Tim,
I also thought this was the case regarding the SS turnbuckles, but check out the
ones that McMaster-Carr sells:
http://www.mcmaster.com/ p/n 3082T21
These are SS turnbuckles comparable to the AN130-16S that AS&S sells, but they
are longer. For some reason the SS turnbuckles at McMaster are rated at 400lbs
whereas the AN130-16S are rated at 1600lbs. I don't understand how the brass
turnbuckles could be 4X as strong as the SS but perhaps some of the mechanical
gurus can enlighten us. It may be the type of SS that is used, or perhaps
the eyelet is not welded. That said, I would think 400lbs would be plenty strong
for a low & slow Aircamper. BTW, the AN130-16S sells for about $27 and the
McMaster SS one is just over $17.
Regards,
John F.
Richmond, TX (Eduordo was a bust!)
GN-1 Aircamper
Corvair 164cid
________________________________________
Message 19
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| Subject: | Model A mag timing |
Lowell,
I have my mags set to 30 degrees, per what Ken Perkins recommends. What do
you think?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
Message 20
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
Count them. You do have the plans, don't you?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Afternoon Group,
Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the ribs need to be
set aside for the ailerons?
73,
Ben in MN
Message 21
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William Wynne told me the ready to fly weight of the Corvair including wood
prop and around 6 lbs for a mount comes to 240 lbs (with starter). Sounds
like yours will come to more than that.
Rick
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:21 PM, skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net> wrote:
>
> yes the weight did include oil in the case.,but not the carb or the exhaust
> stacks except the cast iron headers.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196521#196521
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 22
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
Ben I built the entire wing except for the wing tip bow, diagonals and
plywood leading edge covering. then I made up the three airleron spars and
slid them into place from the wing end and glued them in with T-88. The wing
has to be square when this is done. I used the plumb bob method which is
described at the top of page 66 of the " EAA Aircraft building Techniques
WOOD" book checking the alighnment continuously during construction. If you
don't have one it is available through EAA book store and well worth it but
there are other methods of squareing the wing. I did one set of airleron
spars with the wing verticle as shown in the book and the other wing
horizontal on saw horses, the horizontal one was much easier to work with.
All 30 ribs are identicle thanks to the genious of Mr. B. Pietenpol but the
airleron spars only pick up the outer six/seven. Once the airleron spars
were glued in I used my rib jig to make the inside end rib for the airleron.
I used the wing tip bow to mark the airleron spar ends and carefully cut
them to match up to the tip bow with a good sharp box saw. I then glued on
the wing tip bow, the airleron diagonals. the inner end blocking and even
installed my airleron hinges. I then cut the airleron free with my box saw.
since it was part of the wing when it was built it fits perfectly. This is
the way I did it and it worked perfectly I'm sure there are other valuable
opinions from people on the list. Hope this helps.
Ed Grentzer
>From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Afternoon Group,
> Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the ribs
>need to be set aside for the ailerons?
>73,
>Ben in MN
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Homemade Turnbuckles |
I made my own turnbuckles. They are a pain to adjust, but strong -- pull tested
to almost 2000# when the test rig broke.
Tom Bernie
GN-1 Gloucester Mass
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Aug 5, 2008 11:35 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>
>
>Bill, you won't need to safety wire them-- use oatmeal itself as "loctite."
>Tim
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>>Sent: Aug 5, 2008 10:20 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>>
>>Tim,
>>
>>Now you've got me re-energized and ready to get back to work on the
>>turnbuckle prototyping, with a new twist.
>>I'm going to try making one from oatmeal cartons and stove bolts!
>>
>>Or not.
>>
>>Actually there's no need to make them stronger than A/C turnbuckles, just
>>equal. But the use of higher strength materials (st.st. vs brass) could
>>allow for some weight savings, based on a strength to weight basis.
>>Stainless steel will provide necessary corrosion resistance, like brass,
>>since most of the turnbuckles are exposed to the elements. Using smaller tap
>>drills will definitely become a source of extreme frustration for anyone
>>working with stainless steel, and the cost of broken taps will very quickly
>>exceed the cost of buying A/C turnbuckles.
>>
>>One feature that I have not yet figured out is a method to safety wire such
>>a homemade turnbuckle.
>>
>>I don't actually anticipate doing any further development on my prototypes
>>until sometime later in the fall, when it gets too cold out in the garage
>>for epoxy to cure. When I have some results, I'll share them with the list.
>>But that doesn't mean someone else can't go ahead with their own ideas /
>>prototypes / testing.
>>
>>Bill C.
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:22 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
>>
>>--> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>>
>>In theory, we should be able to build stronger turnbuckles than standard
>>aircraft ones. The A/C turnbuckles are made of brass. Their male threads
>>are rolled, making them stronger than the cut threads we would make.
>>However, I believe the female (tapped) threads are cut. That would likely
>>be the wekaer link, and more likely to strip in tension. Moreover, brass is
>>has less tensile and shering strength than either steel or stainless steel.
>>
>>
>>Building our own turnbuckles out of stainless steel (female) and a cap bolt
>>(male) might be the best of all worlds. The high quality steel cap bolt
>>(socket head) has rolled threads and is case hardened, as well. The mating
>>female part (homemade) has cut threads, but the S.S. material is much
>>stronger than the brass. Moreover, the builder might experiment with
>>slightly undersize tap drills to achieve nearly interference fit (more
>>thread-to-thread surface). This last step might not be practical, and a
>>real tap-breaker, but perhaps a worthy experiment.
>>
>>Also, as in the demontrated design, the homebuilder can make the straps that
>>carry the loads on the ends of the entire turnbuckle assembly as thick and
>>wide as needed.
>>
>>Of course, as stated first in this note... this is only THEORY, and that is
>>why testing is so important.
>>
>>If it works, the proper homemade turnbuckle would be not only cheaper, but
>>better than store-bought aircraft quality. It would also be more in keeping
>>with the barndoor hinge, baling wire, and oatmeal carton LE heritage of the
>>Piet itself. Note, though, that this is definitely NOT an appeal for Home
>>Depot turnbuckles.
>>
>>Tim in central Texas
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
walt,
How big-butted are you talking about here?
Furthermore, is the Piet a truly capable 2-seater at all?
--------
Location: Eastern N.C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196707#196707
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Tom,
There is a saying that you may not have heard since you are fairly
new to the list - "This plane was designed when midgets ruled the
earth!" Bernard, by all accounts, was about 5'4" and weighed maybe
140 lbs. Now that's just about my size, and my wife is about the
same, and our daughter will probably be about equal or less as an
adult, so for us, yes, it's a capable 2-seater. Heck, we could even
carry 50-60 lbs of baggage if there was space for it! For two 200+
lb. guys, add in a full load of fuel and you're close to gross, if
not over, depending on how light or heavy you built your plane.
Kip G.
On Aug 5, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
> <tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
>
> walt,
> How big-butted are you talking about here?
> Furthermore, is the Piet a truly capable 2-seater at all?
>
> --------
> Location: Eastern N.C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196707#196707
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
yes at least page 1 page.
----- Original Message ----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 12:03:57 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Count them. You do have the plans, don't you?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Afternoon Group,
Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the ribs need to be
set aside for the ailerons?
73,
Ben in MN
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
not sure where the rest of the plans went to though. I have hard time reading plans
though to be honest.
----- Original Message ----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 12:03:57 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Count them. You do have the plans, don't you?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Afternoon Group,
Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the ribs need to be
set aside for the ailerons?
73,
Ben in MN
Message 28
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
Yikes!
Ben, what are you doing trying to build a plane without having or reading
the plans???
The plans is all there is.
There ain't no other way to do it.
Maybe it's time to order a new set of plans (or put the project to rest).
Or are you just pulling our collective leg?
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
--> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
not sure where the rest of the plans went to though. I have hard time
reading plans though to be honest.
----- Original Message ----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 12:03:57 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
--> <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
Count them. You do have the plans, don't you?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
--> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
Afternoon Group,
Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the ribs need
to be set aside for the ailerons?
73,
Ben in MN
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Build light!
Somewhere I once saw "Simplicate and add lightness!"
Just for some numbers, I have an A-65 Continental and it weighs in at 626lbs. empty.
Full fuel is just under 15 gallons. I regularly carry a 230lb. passenger
with full fuel and me at nearly 185 lbs. It doesn't exactly claw for altitude
at that weight, but basically I know if I can get the passenger into the front
hole I can lift them out of a respectable field.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196754#196754
Message 30