Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Re: Homemade Turnbuckles (Marc Davis)
2. 02:07 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Gene & Tammy)
3. 02:53 AM - Re: intercom (Jack Phillips)
4. 03:31 AM - Re: Just for kicks (Don Emch)
5. 03:50 AM - intercom/headsets (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
6. 03:57 AM - turnbuckles (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
7. 05:04 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Phillips, Jack)
8. 05:32 AM - intercom (JERRY GROGAN)
9. 06:43 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Ben Ramler)
10. 07:01 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Phillips, Jack)
11. 07:03 AM - Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Tom Anderson)
12. 07:12 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Ben Ramler)
13. 07:20 AM - Re: intercom (Jim Ash)
14. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Dave Abramson)
15. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Jose Soto)
16. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (TOM STINEMETZE)
17. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Dick Navratil)
18. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Phillips, Jack)
19. 08:03 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Bill Church)
20. 08:16 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Dick Navratil)
21. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Dave Abramson)
22. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA FORSCOM)
23. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Jose Soto)
24. 08:30 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Michael Perez)
25. 09:16 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Bill Church)
26. 09:17 AM - fuselage weight (Gene Rambo)
27. 09:26 AM - Re: fuselage weight (Kip and Beth Gardner)
28. 09:34 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (ALAN LYSCARS)
29. 09:41 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Bill Church)
30. 10:03 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Michael Perez)
31. 10:09 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Gene Rambo)
32. 10:16 AM - Wing Spars (Robert Gow)
33. 10:19 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Bill Church)
34. 10:20 AM - Re: fuselage weight (outofthebox50@yahoo.com)
35. 10:31 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (ALAN LYSCARS)
36. 10:37 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (ALAN LYSCARS)
37. 11:06 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Gene Rambo)
38. 11:15 AM - Re: Wing Spars (Gene Rambo)
39. 11:21 AM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Ben Williams)
40. 11:47 AM - Re: Wing Spars (HelsperSew@aol.com)
41. 12:36 PM - Re: ribs and ailerons (gcardinal@comcast.net)
42. 01:02 PM - intercom (Oscar Zuniga)
43. 01:54 PM - Re: intercom (walt)
44. 02:09 PM - my progress (Ben Ramler)
45. 04:59 PM - Re: fuselage weight (Gene & Tammy)
46. 06:13 PM - Re: turnbuckles (Ben Charvet)
47. 06:18 PM - Auto Gas in an A-65 (with ethanol) (Ben Charvet)
48. 07:18 PM - Re: Auto Gas in an A-65 (with ethanol) (Marc Davis)
49. 07:32 PM - The work has started. (Marc Davis)
50. 09:32 PM - intercom (Dick Navratil)
51. 10:21 PM - Re: fuselage weight (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
52. 11:03 PM - Re: ribs and ailerons (Clif Dawson)
53. 11:41 PM - Re: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Homemade Turnbuckles |
I've seen the following idea used to save money on turnbuckles. The turnbu
ckles for the cross bracing inside the wing are eliminated.
This is done by preloading the cables before crimping the nicopress. The w
ing is first trammeled. Then the first end of the cable is installed as nor
mal. The second end of the cable is run through the nicopress=2C around th
e thimble and back through the nicopress. It then continues about half wa
y towards the first end. At this point it passes over a pulley and down th
rough a hole in the table that the wing is on. At the end of the cable han
g weights to tension the cable. Both cables in a pair are setup like this.
When everything is set the second nicopress is crimed and the excess cab
le is cut off. No turnbuckles needed. The down side is that you have to r
eplace the cables to re trammel the wing but I don't think this is done ver
y often.
Marc
_________________________________________________________________
Get Windows Live and get whatever you need=2C wherever you are. Start here
.
http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home_082008
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
Ben, I thought you came to this list to learn and get advice? If you only
came to hear what you want to hear, then maybe you would be better going
elsewhere. The builders here were asked for their advice and they gave it.
They didn't blast you at all. I've belonged to this groug for several years
and have yet seen anyone blast anybody. I have seen an outstanding exchange
of ideas. When I first came to the group "I" thought one of the old timers
was blasting me. Others set me straight and the "old timer" (sorry Corky)
has been a mentor and a friend.
If you stick around, you just might learn a thing or two AND make some great
mentors/friends.
Gene in Tennessee having a great time flying N502R (sure glad I didn't let
false pride get in my way and I stuck around)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> Bill,
> If you are going to blast me for what I am going to do maybe I should
> consider dropping off the list.
> Ben in MN
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 5:53:25 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>
> Ben, Ben, Ben.
>
> Yes, it is possible to build an Air Camper from the Flying and Glider
> Manual
> drawings. I wouldn't want to, but it's been done. Those drawings are so
> small I find them pretty hard to read, though. Nonetheless, those are your
> plans. I assume you "splurged" for the $8 for the EAA reprint of the FGM.
> Use those plans to deternmine how many ribs are affected by the ailerons.
>
> As for $150 being too much to spend, how do you plan to build the rest of
> the plane if $150 for a set of plans is too much money? How are you going
> to
> come up with the cash for a motor? How about a propellor? Wheels?
> Instruments? The cheapest recent build that I can recall hearing about was
> around $5,000. Assuming someone gave you all of the materials to build the
> plane, and you live on a property big enough to have your own runway, what
> are you going to do when it comes time to fill the tank at $5 a gallon (or
> more)? The Pietenpol is one of the most economical "real" aircraft you can
> build. It can be built cheaply, but it still ain't free.
>
> Building an airplane from plans drawn in 1934 is a challenge.
> Building an airplane without using those plans, and not spending any money
> is called dreaming.
>
> Pleasant dreams, Ben.
>
>
> BC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 6:30 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> nope. Dad said the flyer and glider manual is what to use.
>
> you have 150 to spend??? I don't!
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 4:39:04 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>
> Yikes!
>
> Ben, what are you doing trying to build a plane without having or reading
> the plans???
> The plans is all there is.
> There ain't no other way to do it.
>
> Maybe it's time to order a new set of plans (or put the project to rest).
>
> Or are you just pulling our collective leg?
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:08 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> not sure where the rest of the plans went to though. I have hard time
> reading plans though to be honest.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 12:03:57 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
>
> Count them. You do have the plans, don't you?
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:21 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> Afternoon Group,
> Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the ribs need
> to be set aside for the ailerons?
> 73,
> Ben in MN
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 4:05 PM
>
Message 3
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Hi Dick,
I've got one and it works to some extent. It is a panel mount (I think it
is Sigtronics but will have to check it to make sure). It did not work well
using regular headphones, but when I use the leather flying helmets from
Gibson & Barnes that have headsets built in with noise cancelling
microphones, it works fairly well. The squelch is always open, but you can
at least hear each other talk. Sure is nice when taking passengers for a
ride.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: intercom
Does anyone have a intercom installed? I tried a portable Sigtronics and it
didnt work, it kept the mic open because of wind noise. I'm thinking it
might work if I installed a PTT in the front cockpit and we talked but
broadcast the conversation, but I dont want that.
Dick N.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Just for kicks |
Andrew King sent me this shot after flying it back from Brodhead. He needed to
make a pit stop and the freshly cut wheat looked just right! The farmer will
never know he owned an airstrip for a short time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196846#196846
Message 5
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| Subject: | intercom/headsets |
Dick,
I have a 9 volt battery powered 2-place Sigtronics intercom w/ squelch
and volume control. Microphone sponges/covers are a must
to cut wind noise and if possible use noise cancelling head sets. I
just purchased a Flightcom Classic ANR (active noise reduction)
headset to replace my very old Pilot Avionics at Oshkosh and tried it
last weekend and could hear unicom frequencies 75% better
than I did with my old Pilot Avionics units. Transmissions were so much
more clear as well. I'm sold on ANR headsets.
I'm now saving up for a second set of the Flightcom Classics.
By the way I shopped every vendor at OSH for the best price on the
Flightcom Classic ANR's and Gulfcoast Avionics was the best
at $269. Steer clear from the Pilotmall.com
Mike C.
PS-- I have a very new Lightspeed ANR headset for sale (which is
fantastic) but the ear shape doesn't fit my khaki cloth helmet style.
I forget what model but they are nice.
Message 6
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B&B Aircraft Supplies - This is a mom and pop shop with a whole
warehouse full of new aircraft parts. Nice people and great prices.
Check here before you go elsewhere. No website, so you need to call or
fax your order. Phone - 913-884-5930. Fax 913-84-6533.
Many of you on the list know this to be the most cost effective place to
purchase brass turnbuckles but the point was driven home
again when I visited them at Oshkosh. No frills, no web site, but
excellent prices on turnbuckles if you want to cut to the chase
and speed up your process.
Message 7
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
Ben,
I think you've gotten some good advice from those on the list,
particularly Bill Church.. More than once you have posted a note to the
effect that you want to make different ribs for the ailerons than the
rest of the wing, and several people (myself included) have said as
nicely as possible that the way you build this wing (which is mentioned
in the F&GM) is to build the wing then cut the ailerons free. Yet you
seem to persist in wanting to do it differently.
People on this list are primarily interested in helping others to build
good SAFE Pietenpols. There is a good deal of bantering and a lot of
humor but basically, most people want to help others as they themselves
were helped at various stages of their projects. It is a bit
frustrating when a new builder comes along, asks for advice, then
discards it, seeming to say "I know better how to do this than all those
who have actually built and flown one of these planes".
Remember, the purpose of allowing amateur built airplanes to be licensed
as "Experimental", according to the FAA is to encourage "Education and
Recreation". It is NOT necessarily to allow people to build a plane as
cheaply as possible. You can build a Pietenpol for as little as $5,000
or so, if you really know what you are doing and are a very good
"scrounger". More likely it will cost something between $10,000 and
$15,000. Remember that this will be spread over several years. I've
got about $15,000 in mine but that was spread over 8 years of building,
so I tell people that I spent as much on this airplane as a 2-pack a day
smoker would have spent on cigarettes in the same timeframe.
There are several areas that should NOT be scrimped on. I would include
the plans and builders manual in that category. If you have built
airplanes before, it is possible to build a flying Pietenpol from the
F&GM plans, but it would be difficult - especially if you are trying to
do things cheaply. For example, the F&GM plans only show the straight
axle, wire wheel type of landing gear. Having built that, I can assure
you that it is NOT the cheapest gear you can build. My wheels alone
cost nearly $1,000.
My recommendation is to buy the improved (1934) plans from the Pietenpol
family. You really also need the Tony Bingelis books to explain 95% of
the procedures you will need to learn to be able to build this airplane.
A Pietenpol is a fairly simple design, but you will need to know more
techniques than a high school shop class will teach. It is not exactly
like building a birdhouse - there is a lot more to it, such as welding
and trammeling, and rigging and aligning. Remember - your life will
depend on the quality of your workmanship. This list will offer worlds
of good advice, but it does no good unless you heed it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
<zharvey@bellsouth.net>
Ben, I thought you came to this list to learn and get advice? If you
only
came to hear what you want to hear, then maybe you would be better going
elsewhere. The builders here were asked for their advice and they gave
it.
They didn't blast you at all. I've belonged to this groug for several
years
and have yet seen anyone blast anybody. I have seen an outstanding
exchange
of ideas. When I first came to the group "I" thought one of the old
timers
was blasting me. Others set me straight and the "old timer" (sorry
Corky)
has been a mentor and a friend.
If you stick around, you just might learn a thing or two AND make some
great
mentors/friends.
Gene in Tennessee having a great time flying N502R (sure glad I didn't
let
false pride get in my way and I stuck around)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> Bill,
> If you are going to blast me for what I am going to do maybe I should
> consider dropping off the list.
> Ben in MN
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 5:53:25 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>
> Ben, Ben, Ben.
>
> Yes, it is possible to build an Air Camper from the Flying and Glider
> Manual
> drawings. I wouldn't want to, but it's been done. Those drawings are
so
> small I find them pretty hard to read, though. Nonetheless, those are
your
> plans. I assume you "splurged" for the $8 for the EAA reprint of the
FGM.
> Use those plans to deternmine how many ribs are affected by the
ailerons.
>
> As for $150 being too much to spend, how do you plan to build the rest
of
> the plane if $150 for a set of plans is too much money? How are you
going
> to
> come up with the cash for a motor? How about a propellor? Wheels?
> Instruments? The cheapest recent build that I can recall hearing about
was
> around $5,000. Assuming someone gave you all of the materials to build
the
> plane, and you live on a property big enough to have your own runway,
what
> are you going to do when it comes time to fill the tank at $5 a gallon
(or
> more)? The Pietenpol is one of the most economical "real" aircraft you
can
> build. It can be built cheaply, but it still ain't free.
>
> Building an airplane from plans drawn in 1934 is a challenge.
> Building an airplane without using those plans, and not spending any
money
> is called dreaming.
>
> Pleasant dreams, Ben.
>
>
> BC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ramler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 6:30 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> nope. Dad said the flyer and glider manual is what to use.
>
> you have 150 to spend??? I don't!
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 4:39:04 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>
> Yikes!
>
> Ben, what are you doing trying to build a plane without having or
reading
> the plans???
> The plans is all there is.
> There ain't no other way to do it.
>
> Maybe it's time to order a new set of plans (or put the project to
rest).
>
> Or are you just pulling our collective leg?
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ramler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:08 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> not sure where the rest of the plans went to though. I have hard time
> reading plans though to be honest.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 12:03:57 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
>
> Count them. You do have the plans, don't you?
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ramler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:21 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> Afternoon Group,
> Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the ribs
need
> to be set aside for the ailerons?
> 73,
> Ben in MN
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 4:05 PM
>
Message 8
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Dick I have a open cockpit Skybolt with the same or louder noise
problem. I used a Micro-Air radio with a built in intercom. I installed
a centering togle switch in both cockpits. If you push it down you talk
to each other. And if you push it up you talk to the world. It works
very well. Glad I could finaly give some advice.
Jerry Grogan
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:52 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: intercom
Hi Dick,
I've got one and it works to some extent. It is a panel mount (I
think it is Sigtronics but will have to check it to make sure). It did
not work well using regular headphones, but when I use the leather
flying helmets from Gibson & Barnes that have headsets built in with
noise cancelling microphones, it works fairly well. The squelch is
always open, but you can at least hear each other talk. Sure is nice
when taking passengers for a ride.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:14 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: intercom
Does anyone have a intercom installed? I tried a portable Sigtronics
and it didnt work, it kept the mic open because of wind noise. I'm
thinking it might work if I installed a PTT in the front cockpit and we
talked but broadcast the conversation, but I dont want that.
Dick N.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
Jack,
I have never ever implied that I know more than the rest of the people on this
list and I am a little offended that you would even suggest a such a thing. Just
because I always try to do things differently doesn't that I am ignoreing
you.
Ben in MN
----- Original Message ----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 6:58:22 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Ben,
I think you've gotten some good advice from those on the list,
particularly Bill Church.. More than once you have posted a note to the
effect that you want to make different ribs for the ailerons than the
rest of the wing, and several people (myself included) have said as
nicely as possible that the way you build this wing (which is mentioned
in the F&GM) is to build the wing then cut the ailerons free. Yet you
seem to persist in wanting to do it differently.
People on this list are primarily interested in helping others to build
good SAFE Pietenpols. There is a good deal of bantering and a lot of
humor but basically, most people want to help others as they themselves
were helped at various stages of their projects. It is a bit
frustrating when a new builder comes along, asks for advice, then
discards it, seeming to say "I know better how to do this than all those
who have actually built and flown one of these planes".
Remember, the purpose of allowing amateur built airplanes to be licensed
as "Experimental", according to the FAA is to encourage "Education and
Recreation". It is NOT necessarily to allow people to build a plane as
cheaply as possible. You can build a Pietenpol for as little as $5,000
or so, if you really know what you are doing and are a very good
"scrounger". More likely it will cost something between $10,000 and
$15,000. Remember that this will be spread over several years. I've
got about $15,000 in mine but that was spread over 8 years of building,
so I tell people that I spent as much on this airplane as a 2-pack a day
smoker would have spent on cigarettes in the same timeframe.
There are several areas that should NOT be scrimped on. I would include
the plans and builders manual in that category. If you have built
airplanes before, it is possible to build a flying Pietenpol from the
F&GM plans, but it would be difficult - especially if you are trying to
do things cheaply. For example, the F&GM plans only show the straight
axle, wire wheel type of landing gear. Having built that, I can assure
you that it is NOT the cheapest gear you can build. My wheels alone
cost nearly $1,000.
My recommendation is to buy the improved (1934) plans from the Pietenpol
family. You really also need the Tony Bingelis books to explain 95% of
the procedures you will need to learn to be able to build this airplane.
A Pietenpol is a fairly simple design, but you will need to know more
techniques than a high school shop class will teach. It is not exactly
like building a birdhouse - there is a lot more to it, such as welding
and trammeling, and rigging and aligning. Remember - your life will
depend on the quality of your workmanship. This list will offer worlds
of good advice, but it does no good unless you heed it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
<zharvey@bellsouth.net>
Ben, I thought you came to this list to learn and get advice? If you
only
came to hear what you want to hear, then maybe you would be better going
elsewhere. The builders here were asked for their advice and they gave
it.
They didn't blast you at all. I've belonged to this groug for several
years
and have yet seen anyone blast anybody. I have seen an outstanding
exchange
of ideas. When I first came to the group "I" thought one of the old
timers
was blasting me. Others set me straight and the "old timer" (sorry
Corky)
has been a mentor and a friend.
If you stick around, you just might learn a thing or two AND make some
great
mentors/friends.
Gene in Tennessee having a great time flying N502R (sure glad I didn't
let
false pride get in my way and I stuck around)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> Bill,
> If you are going to blast me for what I am going to do maybe I should
> consider dropping off the list.
> Ben in MN
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 5:53:25 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>
> Ben, Ben, Ben.
>
> Yes, it is possible to build an Air Camper from the Flying and Glider
> Manual
> drawings. I wouldn't want to, but it's been done. Those drawings are
so
> small I find them pretty hard to read, though. Nonetheless, those are
your
> plans. I assume you "splurged" for the $8 for the EAA reprint of the
FGM.
> Use those plans to deternmine how many ribs are affected by the
ailerons.
>
> As for $150 being too much to spend, how do you plan to build the rest
of
> the plane if $150 for a set of plans is too much money? How are you
going
> to
> come up with the cash for a motor? How about a propellor? Wheels?
> Instruments? The cheapest recent build that I can recall hearing about
was
> around $5,000. Assuming someone gave you all of the materials to build
the
> plane, and you live on a property big enough to have your own runway,
what
> are you going to do when it comes time to fill the tank at $5 a gallon
(or
> more)? The Pietenpol is one of the most economical "real" aircraft you
can
> build. It can be built cheaply, but it still ain't free.
>
> Building an airplane from plans drawn in 1934 is a challenge.
> Building an airplane without using those plans, and not spending any
money
> is called dreaming.
>
> Pleasant dreams, Ben.
>
>
> BC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ramler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 6:30 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> nope. Dad said the flyer and glider manual is what to use.
>
> you have 150 to spend??? I don't!
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 4:39:04 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>
> Yikes!
>
> Ben, what are you doing trying to build a plane without having or
reading
> the plans???
> The plans is all there is.
> There ain't no other way to do it.
>
> Maybe it's time to order a new set of plans (or put the project to
rest).
>
> Or are you just pulling our collective leg?
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ramler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:08 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> not sure where the rest of the plans went to though. I have hard time
> reading plans though to be honest.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 12:03:57 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
>
> Count them. You do have the plans, don't you?
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ramler
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:21 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
>
> --> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> Afternoon Group,
> Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the ribs
need
> to be set aside for the ailerons?
> 73,
> Ben in MN
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 4:05 PM
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
No offense intended, Ben, any more than you intended to offend people by asking
their advice and then ignoring what they told you. Now go spend less time sending
emails and more time making sawdust!
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Jack,
I have never ever implied that I know more than the rest of the people on this
list and I am a little offended that you would even suggest a such a thing. Just
because I always try to do things differently doesn't that I am ignoreing
you.
Ben in MN
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
This is very interesting stuff.
BTW, how does a Piet's useful load compare to some other small planes like a C-152
and J-3 Cub? I mean "real world" usefulness, not the published numbers.
I just don't want to spend years building an aircraft only to find out that I (6'2"
and 195 lbs) can't carry a 180 lb. passenger without scaring the schit out
of myself. I'd be kinda heartbroken if I couldn't share the ride with others.
Jack,
I think you're probably a gold nugget for my research. What's the best way for
me to get in touch with you?
--------
Location: Eastern N.C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196872#196872
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
agian I wasn't ignoreing anyone!
later
Ben
----- Original Message ----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:59:18 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
No offense intended, Ben, any more than you intended to offend people by asking
their advice and then ignoring what they told you. Now go spend less time sending
emails and more time making sawdust!
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Jack,
I have never ever implied that I know more than the rest of the people on this
list and I am a little offended that you would even suggest a such a thing. Just
because I always try to do things differently doesn't that I am ignoreing
you.
Ben in MN
Message 13
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|
When I was getting the taildragger endorsement maybe 15 years ago, I was in a rented
J-3 with the instructor up front. As is common in Cubs, we never shut the
door. He had a voice-activated portable which I found annoying because there
was only one squelch control, but the noise levels between the two seat were
very different. Your squelch choices were nobody talks, or both mics were always
open. Plus a single volume control was never quite balanced between front and
back seats, although I admittedly have a volume control on my headset. When
I bought my Cub, I went looking for a voice-activated portable that had individual
squelch and volume controls. IIRC there weren't a lot of choices at the
time, and I ended up with PS Engineering's Aerocom II (which I don't think is
made any more). The separate squelch and volume controls did the trick for me.
One down side is that my passengers don't have access to their controls, so I
have to adjust them for both of us. I also have a PTT, which is used just for
radio transmitting. If memory serves, I can also rig a radio PTT for my passenger,
but I've never done it.
I haven't really kept up with the improvements in intercoms in the last 10 years
or so because mine works just fine for my purposes. I spoke with the folks at
PS Engineering 4 or 5 years ago at Sun 'n Fun and I guess their squelch circuits
are automatic now, at least for the models I cared about. The down side to
letting an engineer decide how a circuit should behave is the risk that the
choices he made and built into the design might not work for your specific needs.
I'm not a fan of one-size fits all / one size fits nobody engineering, and
I resent having the squelch control removed. My concern would be that they tailored
the circuits towards spam can airplanes with enclosed environments, possibly
at the expense of open-cockpits, because they probably move more units in
that market space. But to be fair, if the engineering is truly that sophisticated
and works the way I would like it to, then I might actually concede and
join the 21st century come time to purchase my next intercom.
Granted it ain't open cockpit, but Cubs are notoriously noisy. After having flown
only once without a headset or any hearing protection, I'll never do it again.
I'm frankly amazed how anybody can communicate at all over the din, let alone
with a voice-activated system.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dick Navratil <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>Sent: Aug 6, 2008 12:13 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: intercom
>
>Does anyone have a intercom installed? I tried a portable Sigtronics and it didnt
work, it kept the mic open because of wind noise. I'm thinking it might
work if I installed a PTT in the front cockpit and we talked but broadcast the
conversation, but I dont want that.
>Dick N.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Hello All!
I am building the short fuselage version.... I sat in it and said NO
WAY!!!! (I am 6'2") I then removed the front seat, moved the rudder bar
forward. Now I fit! But it is now a single seat with baggage in front.
Maybe I will make a Mail Plane out of her!!!!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:28 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat
And the long fuselage version gives you a bit more cockpit length and you
can always widen the fuselage as many have done (widened mine two inches).
Of course that doesn't necessarily increase your gross weight.
Rick
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Kip and Beth Gardner
<kipandbeth@earthlink.net> wrote:
<kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
Tom,
There is a saying that you may not have heard since you are fairly new
to the list - "This plane was designed when midgets ruled the earth!"
Bernard, by all accounts, was about 5'4" and weighed maybe 140 lbs. Now
that's just about my size, and my wife is about the same, and our daughter
will probably be about equal or less as an adult, so for us, yes, it's a
capable 2-seater. Heck, we could even carry 50-60 lbs of baggage if there
was space for it! For two 200+ lb. guys, add in a full load of fuel and
you're close to gross, if not over, depending on how light or heavy you
built your plane.
Kip G.
On Aug 5, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
<tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
walt,
How big-butted are you talking about here?
Furthermore, is the Piet a truly capable 2-seater at all?
--------
Location: Eastern N.C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196707#196707
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Dave, let me know how it works as I am also 6'2", but I have not begun the
building process yet! I am getting the engine ready first and reading as mu
ch as I can. I helped build a Piet back in 87, it was just the ribs, so I h
ave a long way to learn, but I am having so much fun I don't think I'll eve
r build another R/C aircraft! Thanks for the posts, they are a real help!!!
Joser
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Abramson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front sea
t
Hello All!
I am building the short fuselage version.... I sat in it and said NO WAY
!!!! (I am 6'2") I then removed the front seat, moved the rudder bar forw
ard. Now I fit! But it is now a single seat with baggage in front. Maybe
I will make a Mail Plane out of her!!!!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol
-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:28 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front s
eat
And the long fuselage version gives you a bit more cockpit length and y
ou can always widen the fuselage as many have done (widened mine two inches
). Of course that doesn't necessarily increase your gross weight.
Rick
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthl
ink.net> wrote:
h@earthlink.net>
Tom,
There is a saying that you may not have heard since you are fairly ne
w to the list - "This plane was designed when midgets ruled the earth!" Be
rnard, by all accounts, was about 5'4" and weighed maybe 140 lbs. Now tha
t's just about my size, and my wife is about the same, and our daughter wil
l probably be about equal or less as an adult, so for us, yes, it's a capab
le 2-seater. Heck, we could even carry 50-60 lbs of baggage if there was s
pace for it! For two 200+ lb. guys, add in a full load of fuel and you're
close to gross, if not over, depending on how light or heavy you built you
r plane.
Kip G.
On Aug 5, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
c@yahoo.com>
walt,
How big-butted are you talking about here?
Furthermore, is the Piet a truly capable 2-seater at all?
--------
Location: Eastern N.C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196707#196707
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Joser:
An Air Camper is a radio controlled (i.e. R/C) aircraft - - assuming your
wife is on the other end of the intercom circuit.
Stinemetze
>I am having so much fun I don't think I'll ever build another R/C
aircraft! Thanks for the posts, they are a real help!!!
>Joser
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
If you have the long fuselage plans, have a good look at the mods I made.
Use the long fuse plan, but refer to the short fuse plan for building the
bridge decks and turtle deck. If you do that, the front cockpit stays the
same but you will gain approx 9 inches in the rear cockpit. I also reclined
the rear seat by 1 1/2" for comfort.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Anderson" <tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat
> <tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
>
> This is very interesting stuff.
> BTW, how does a Piet's useful load compare to some other small planes like
> a C-152 and J-3 Cub? I mean "real world" usefulness, not the published
> numbers.
>
> I just don't want to spend years building an aircraft only to find out
> that I (6'2" and 195 lbs) can't carry a 180 lb. passenger without scaring
> the schit out of myself. I'd be kinda heartbroken if I couldn't share the
> ride with others.
>
> Jack,
> I think you're probably a gold nugget for my research. What's the best
> way for me to get in touch with you?
>
> --------
> Location: Eastern N.C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196872#196872
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Tom,
Useful load of a Pietenpol is kind of a nebulous term since the builder
can specify what the gross weight of the airplane is. I can only speak
to my own plane's performance. With a Continental A65, and a Sensenich
72x40 prop I have taken a passenger as heavy as 205 in it on a 93F day.
I am 6'2" and weigh 200. We had full fuel that day so our total weight
was 745 (empty weight) + 8 (oil) + 90 (fuel) + 200 (me) + 205
(passenger) = 1,248 lbs. We got off the ground in about 500' and then
slogged upwards at the blistering rate of about 100 - 150 fpm. We were
flying from a 6,000' runway. You can do it, and if your home field has
a long runway you will have no problems. If you fly out of the typical
North Carolina grass strip you will be lucky to have 2500 feet before
you get to the tall skinny pines we have around here. A Piet doesn't
work so well on such a strip - at least when carrying passengers.
If you build your Piet lightly, your performance will be much enhanced.
Most Piets are at least 100 lbs lighter than mine. The things that
added weight to mine are:
1. Long fuselage
2. Fuselage 1" wider than plans
3. Straight axle
4. Wire Wheels
5. Polyurethane paint (added at least 60 lbs)
6. Semi-electrical system (battery, no generator, radio, transponder,
intercom)
7. Instruments in the front cockpit (maybe 4 lbs added)
8. Seat cushions (sure was nice for the 34 hour round trip to Brodhead)
Build it Light! Every time I have to turn a passenger down for a ride
from a short runway I'm reminded of the features that added weight to
mine (of course, flying it by myself, I LOVE those features).
Best way to get in touch with me is through this email address, the
phone number below, or by my cellphone (919) 427-4440. You can email me
at home: pietflyr@bellsouth.net but I don't check it every day.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposable Products Research & Development
Cardinal Health Clinical Technologies & Services
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat
<tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
This is very interesting stuff.
BTW, how does a Piet's useful load compare to some other small planes
like a C-152 and J-3 Cub? I mean "real world" usefulness, not the
published numbers.
I just don't want to spend years building an aircraft only to find out
that I (6'2" and 195 lbs) can't carry a 180 lb. passenger without
scaring the schit out of myself. I'd be kinda heartbroken if I couldn't
share the ride with others.
Jack,
I think you're probably a gold nugget for my research. What's the best
way for me to get in touch with you?
--------
Location: Eastern N.C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196872#196872
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
Message 19
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
Ben,
When I read your reply, I thought that maybe the words I wrote were not
clear, and could be taken the wrong way, but I see that a few other listers
have confirmed that what I wrote was not out of line (Thanks Gene and Jack
for the support).
My comments were not intended to "blast" you. Sorry to hear you took them
that way. They were offered in the spirit of helping. You asked for advice,
and that is what I gave. Based on your comments, it seemed as though you did
not grasp the size or complexity of the project. As with any advice, it is
yours to do with as you please.
But, honestly Ben, are you planning to build a Pietenpol with only one page
of the plans, which you find hard to follow? If you are, I suggest that you
really need to find a local experienced mentor to guide you through the
building process on a one-on-one basis. These plans have (almost) all the
information needed to build an airplane, but there are a lot of areas that
are a challenge to decipher. I read and interpret drawings every day as part
of my job, and even I find some parts of these plans a bit difficult, so I
can't imagine how hard it would be for someone who finds plans hard to
follow.
If you really intend to build yourself an Air Camper, you will not want to
drop off the list, because this list is a wealth of information, with lots
of members who have tons of experience (lots more than me), which most are
willing and eager to share. On the other hand, if you are going to get
offended by someone's reply to your questions, maybe you need to give your
questions a bit more thought before throwing them out there for a reply.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
--> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
Bill,
If you are going to blast me for what I am going to do maybe I should
consider dropping off the list.
Ben in MN
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
Ben
We all like to put our mark on our planes and I'm certainly one who has done
that. But you have to realize that anything you do to this plane will have
a major effect on the flight characterisics, including the most minor
changes. If you make changes without knowing what those effects might be,
you may be headed for a plane that doesnt perform well or is just dangerous.
If you make changes, draw on the experience of others. The first one is the
question of ailereons. A number of others have encouraged you to build the
wing with ailereons attached, that is the only way to get a true surface.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Jack,
I have never ever implied that I know more than the rest of the people on
this list and I am a little offended that you would even suggest a such a
thing. Just because I always try to do things differently doesn't that I am
ignoreing you.
Ben in MN
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Make a note to put more of an angle on the seat back.... It is a little too
vertical.
Too late for mine, but I have read about alot of people doing it! Wish I
knew before I built mine!
Cheers!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jose Soto
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 7:39 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat
Dave, let me know how it works as I am also 6'2", but I have not begun the
building process yet! I am getting the engine ready first and reading as
much as I can. I helped build a Piet back in 87, it was just the ribs, so I
have a long way to learn, but I am having so much fun I don't think I'll
ever build another R/C aircraft! Thanks for the posts, they are a real
help!!! Joser
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Abramson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front
seat
Hello All!
I am building the short fuselage version.... I sat in it and said NO
WAY!!!! (I am 6'2") I then removed the front seat, moved the rudder bar
forward. Now I fit! But it is now a single seat with baggage in front.
Maybe I will make a Mail Plane out of her!!!!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:28 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front
seat
And the long fuselage version gives you a bit more cockpit length and
you can always widen the fuselage as many have done (widened mine two
inches). Of course that doesn't necessarily increase your gross weight.
Rick
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Kip and Beth Gardner
<kipandbeth@earthlink.net> wrote:
<kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
Tom,
There is a saying that you may not have heard since you are fairly
new to the list - "This plane was designed when midgets ruled the earth!"
Bernard, by all accounts, was about 5'4" and weighed maybe 140 lbs. Now
that's just about my size, and my wife is about the same, and our daughter
will probably be about equal or less as an adult, so for us, yes, it's a
capable 2-seater. Heck, we could even carry 50-60 lbs of baggage if there
was space for it! For two 200+ lb. guys, add in a full load of fuel and
you're close to gross, if not over, depending on how light or heavy you
built your plane.
Kip G.
On Aug 5, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
<tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
walt,
How big-butted are you talking about here?
Furthermore, is the Piet a truly capable 2-seater at all?
--------
Location: Eastern N.C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196707#196707
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
About a week ago I climbed into the front seat of Oscar Zuniga's
"Improved" (long) Piet. I am 5ft 8in and 203 LBS and my legs are not
limber. It was a job but not too hard. I kind of climbed thru and then
backed into the hole. Sitting in the front I had my knees up higher than
normal. It felt much better when I put my feet on the rudders. It was
fun and comfortable enough for a normal short Piet Flight, but I would
not want to spend hours in it. Raising the bottom of the Instrument
(that is singular, Oscar only has one guage up front) panel would help
for someone taller.
The Piet climbed out much better than my friends Aeronca Champ with the
same Roaring C-65. It was about 95degrees or more. Oscar is much smaller
than me. he did note that the size of the passenger does not affect CG
since the PAX is on the center of Gravity.
M2C
Steve D
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat
--> <tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
This is very interesting stuff.
BTW, how does a Piet's useful load compare to some other small planes
like a C-152 and J-3 Cub? I mean "real world" usefulness, not the
published numbers.
I just don't want to spend years building an aircraft only to find out
that I (6'2" and 195 lbs) can't carry a 180 lb. passenger without
scaring the schit out of myself. I'd be kinda heartbroken if I couldn't
share the ride with others.
Jack,
I think you're probably a gold nugget for my research. What's the best
way for me to get in touch with you?
--------
Location: Eastern N.C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196872#196872
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
Thanks! I'll note it now.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Abramson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front sea
t
Make a note to put more of an angle on the seat back.... It is a little
too vertical.
Too late for mine, but I have read about alot of people doing it! Wish I
knew before I built mine!
Cheers!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol
-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jose Soto
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 7:39 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front s
eat
Dave, let me know how it works as I am also 6'2", but I have not begun
the building process yet! I am getting the engine ready first and reading a
s much as I can. I helped build a Piet back in 87, it was just the ribs, so
I have a long way to learn, but I am having so much fun I don't think I'll
ever build another R/C aircraft! Thanks for the posts, they are a real hel
p!!! Joser
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Abramson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front
seat
Hello All!
I am building the short fuselage version.... I sat in it and said NO
WAY!!!! (I am 6'2") I then removed the front seat, moved the rudder bar
forward. Now I fit! But it is now a single seat with baggage in front. M
aybe I will make a Mail Plane out of her!!!!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-piete
npol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:28 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the fro
nt seat
And the long fuselage version gives you a bit more cockpit length a
nd you can always widen the fuselage as many have done (widened mine two in
ches). Of course that doesn't necessarily increase your gross weight.
Rick
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@ea
rthlink.net> wrote:
dbeth@earthlink.net>
Tom,
There is a saying that you may not have heard since you are fairl
y new to the list - "This plane was designed when midgets ruled the earth!"
Bernard, by all accounts, was about 5'4" and weighed maybe 140 lbs. Now
that's just about my size, and my wife is about the same, and our daughter
will probably be about equal or less as an adult, so for us, yes, it's a c
apable 2-seater. Heck, we could even carry 50-60 lbs of baggage if there w
as space for it! For two 200+ lb. guys, add in a full load of fuel and yo
u're close to gross, if not over, depending on how light or heavy you built
your plane.
Kip G.
On Aug 5, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
on_nc@yahoo.com>
walt,
How big-butted are you talking about here?
Furthermore, is the Piet a truly capable 2-seater at all?
--------
Location: Eastern N.C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196707#196707
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 24
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
If I may, I believe this is a case of "It's not WHAT you say, it is HOW you
say it." Email is not the best way to comunicate as it were...no tone, no
emotion, body language, etc. It is easy to "read into" and misread what is
being said. My opinion, nothing more.
-
-
-
--- On Wed, 8/6/08, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
<eng@canadianrogers.com>
Ben,
When I read your reply, I thought that maybe the words I wrote were not
clear, and could be taken the wrong way, but I see that a few other listers
have confirmed that what I wrote was not out of line (Thanks Gene and Jack
for the support).
My comments were not intended to "blast" you. Sorry to hear you took
them
that way. They were offered in the spirit of helping. You asked for advice,
and that is what I gave. Based on your comments, it seemed as though you di
d
not grasp the size or complexity of the project. As with any advice, it is
yours to do with as you please.
But, honestly Ben, are you planning to build a Pietenpol with only one page
of the plans, which you find hard to follow? If you are, I suggest that you
really need to find a local experienced mentor to guide you through the
building process on a one-on-one basis. These plans have (almost) all the
information needed to build an airplane, but there are a lot of areas that
are a challenge to decipher. I read and interpret drawings every day as par
t
of my job, and even I find some parts of these plans a bit difficult, so I
can't imagine how hard it would be for someone who finds plans hard to
follow.
If you really intend to build yourself an Air Camper, you will not want to
drop off the list, because this list is a wealth of information, with lots
of members who have tons of experience (lots more than me), which most are
willing and eager to share. On the other hand, if you are going to get
offended by someone's reply to your questions, maybe you need to give your
questions a bit more thought before throwing them out there for a reply.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
--> <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
Bill,
--- If you are going to blast me for what I am going to do maybe I sh
ould
consider dropping off the list.
Ben in MN
Message 25
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
Hey Mike,
Why are you SHOUTING the words "what" and "how"?
(sorry, couldn't resist that one.)
Actually, I always try to take great care in composing my posts, in order to
make sure that what I write is what I really mean to say. Typically, I will
write my question or reply, and then I proofread it (and usually edit it)
and then I proofread it again (and edit again, and so on, until I am
satisfied with my words) before I hit the send button. And, in re-reading my
post to Ben, I fail to see how it could be interpreted as a "blast". All I
did was state a few facts and ask a few important questions. I stand by my
comments, and I stand by my assertion that my posting was intended to help
Ben. I'm not sure how it would be possible to misread what I wrote.
The funny thing is that in today's email and texting world, written
communication is used more than ever before, yet the average person's
writing skills today are poorer than they were thirty years ago. If one
writes with care and forethought, it is possible to impart tone and emotion
(but not body language) into one's writing. The misuse or absence of
punctuation in writing is a big contributor to misinterpretation of what is
written. A properly placed comma can make a world of difference with regards
to the message being conveyed. Listen to me, I sound like a bitter, old
English teacher.
So, anyway Mike, how's your information gathering going? Ready to take the
plunge and join the rest of us "crazies" building and flying Pietenpols?
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
If I may, I believe this is a case of "It's not WHAT you say, it is HOW you
say it." Email is not the best way to comunicate as it were...no tone, no
emotion, body language, etc. It is easy to "read into" and misread what is
being said. My opinion, nothing more.
Message 26
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OK, how come nobody raised the BS flag on me when I posted that my bare
fuselage weighed 33 lbs??? The more I thought about it, I realized that
it could not possibly be right, but I KNEW I weighed it correctly.
Well, my wife just asked me why our bathroom scale was set on kg instead
of lbs . . . DOH!!!!
I don't know how to reset the scale, but somehow I must have. A quick
google converts 33.6 kg into 74.0 lbs, which sounds much more
reasonable.
And there I thought I was losing a lot of weight on my beer and pizza
diet.
Damn.
Gene
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage weight |
Gene,
Sounds like you need to keep a scientist handy to think in metric for
you. :)
Actually, I said 'hmmm...." when I saw your post, but I said to
myself, 'this is Gene talking, so that weight MUST be right' - Damn!
you've disappointed me!
My fuse weighs in right at about the same as yours IN POUNDS.
Kip
On Aug 6, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> OK, how come nobody raised the BS flag on me when I posted that my
> bare fuselage weighed 33 lbs??? The more I thought about it, I
> realized that it could not possibly be right, but I KNEW I weighed
> it correctly. Well, my wife just asked me why our bathroom scale
> was set on kg instead of lbs . . DOH!!!!
>
> I don't know how to reset the scale, but somehow I must have. A
> quick google converts 33.6 kg into 74.0 lbs, which sounds much more
> reasonable.
>
> And there I thought I was losing a lot of weight on my beer and
> pizza diet.
>
> Damn.
>
> Gene
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
Bill, I had to throw my 2cents into it..
Al
"Listen to me: I sound like a bitter, old English teacher".
Message 29
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
Good catch, Al.
I knew there was something wrong there, and I couldn't put my finger on it.
Oh, by the way, you only need one period at the end of a sentence. (Gotcha!)
Bill
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN LYSCARS
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Bill, I had to throw my 2cents into it..
Al
"Listen to me: I sound like a bitter, old English teacher".
Message 30
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
I took the plunge a few weeks ago. I have the 3 sets of plans from the Piet
enpols, I have a plan for the Jenny style gear, I have the 4 book set, (can
't remember authors name at the moment) from the EAA on their way and I hav
e the Riblett plan on its way as well.- I hope to begin construction as s
oon as the Riblett shows up. I have made 64 cap strips to get started. Once
I have the plan, the rib jig and bending jig will be made.
-
Looking ahead, I am trying to get a plan together for making the spars, (ma
terial, method, size...) as well as a list of metals that will need to be p
urchased. As always, the Corvair engine is being tossed around as an option
and all the things I need to find out about that.
-
With the making of the rib jig, the bending jig,-gussets, and building th
e ribs themselves, I will be quite busy once I get the plan. CAN'T WAIT! (s
houting) 8^)
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
. . . and the period goes inside the quotations.
gotcha
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church<mailto:eng@canadianrogers.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Good catch, Al.
I knew there was something wrong there, and I couldn't put my finger
on it.
Oh, by the way, you only need one period at the end of a sentence.
(Gotcha!)
Bill
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-ser
ver@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of ALAN LYSCARS
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:31 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Bill, I had to throw my 2cents into it..
Al
"Listen to me: I sound like a bitter, old English teacher".
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 32
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I've got a Piet project which came with material for the spars (3 piece
wing). The Guy obviously intended to glue up spar blanks from a thinner
piece of web material and cap strips added to both sides of the main piece
top and bottom. The grain run-out on the cap strips (if that is what they
are called) do not have very good grain characteristics. I'm thinking to
just scrap the material and buy solid spar blanks of the correct dimension.
I'm also wondering if it is worth the effort to rout out the areas between
the ribs as detailed in the plans.
Second question - Did we resolve the motorcycle wheel issue? Have they been
used successfully? What about the size? The plans show 24 inches but I see
some folks are using different sizes.
Bob
Message 33
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| Subject: | ribs and ailerons |
That sounds like a plunge.
Good to hear that you are making progress. Time never seems to pass as
slowly as it does during the time between the moment you decide to build a
Pietenpol and the time you can actually start to build. There's always lots
of planning, and many different ways to solve every challenge. That's half
the fun of a project like this. Enjoy the journey.
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
I took the plunge a few weeks ago. I have the 3 sets of plans from the
Pietenpols, I have a plan for the Jenny style gear, I have the 4 book set,
(can't remember authors name at the moment) from the EAA on their way and I
have the Riblett plan on its way as well. I hope to begin construction as
soon as the Riblett shows up. I have made 64 cap strips to get started. Once
I have the plan, the rib jig and bending jig will be made.
Looking ahead, I am trying to get a plan together for making the spars,
(material, method, size...) as well as a list of metals that will need to be
purchased. As always, the Corvair engine is being tossed around as an option
and all the things I need to find out about that.
With the making of the rib jig, the bending jig, gussets, and building the
ribs themselves, I will be quite busy once I get the plan. CAN'T WAIT!
(shouting) 8^)
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage weight |
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anVzdCB0byB3ZWlnaCBpdC4gIEkgZmVlbCBiZXR0ZXIgbm93LiAgSSB0aGluayBJJ2xsIHdhaXQg
dGlsbCBpdHMgYSBsaXR0bGUgY29vbGVyLiAgIA0KDQoNCkplcmVteSBpbiBEYWxsYXMgDQpTZW50
IHZpYSBCbGFja0JlcnJ5IGZyb20gVC1Nb2JpbGUNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0t
LS0NCkZyb206IEtpcCBhbmQgQmV0aCBHYXJkbmVyIDxraXBhbmRiZXRoQGVhcnRobGluay5uZXQ+
DQoNCkRhdGU6IFdlZCwgNiBBdWcgMjAwOCAxMjoyNjowMSANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RA
bWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogZnVzZWxhZ2Ugd2Vp
Z2h0DQoNCg0KDQo
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
Nope. And that wasn't a sentence...only a thought.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
. . . and the period goes inside the quotations.
gotcha
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Good catch, Al.
I knew there was something wrong there, and I couldn't put my finger
on it.
Oh, by the way, you only need one period at the end of a sentence.
(Gotcha!)
Bill
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN
LYSCARS
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:31 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Bill, I had to throw my 2cents into it..
Al
"Listen to me: I sound like a bitter, old English teacher".
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
Gene,
I stand corrected. As much as I find it conversationally awkward, the
period DOES go inside the quotation marks.
Al
AP Stylebook 2008
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
. . . and the period goes inside the quotations.
gotcha
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Good catch, Al.
I knew there was something wrong there, and I couldn't put my finger
on it.
Oh, by the way, you only need one period at the end of a sentence.
(Gotcha!)
Bill
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN
LYSCARS
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:31 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Bill, I had to throw my 2cents into it..
Al
"Listen to me: I sound like a bitter, old English teacher".
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
I have always thought it was awkward too, that is why I noticed it.
----- Original Message -----
From: ALAN LYSCARS<mailto:alyscars@verizon.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Gene,
I stand corrected. As much as I find it conversationally awkward, the
period DOES go inside the quotation marks.
Al
AP Stylebook 2008
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo<mailto:generambo@msn.com>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
. . . and the period goes inside the quotations.
gotcha
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church<mailto:eng@canadianrogers.com>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Good catch, Al.
I knew there was something wrong there, and I couldn't put my
finger on it.
Oh, by the way, you only need one period at the end of a sentence.
(Gotcha!)
Bill
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-ser
ver@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of ALAN LYSCARS
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:31 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Bill, I had to throw my 2cents into it..
Al
"Listen to me: I sound like a bitter, old English teacher".
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 38
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You could just order new capstrip material if the main web is OK. I
priced ordering it all to build up an I beam like you describe, and I
priced full size spars. Full size was cheaper. I think the built up
would be great and probably stronger. One thing I could never find any
guidance on is whether it would be acceptable to splice the capstrips
and use shorter pieces to buld them up. I can think of no reason why
not, as long as any splices are staggered.
For what it is worth, it just cost me $1100 (shipping included) for four
15 foot 1x4.75 spars and enough spar material for the ailerons and
aileron false spars. All from Wicks, shipped within two weeks of
ordering, shipping took two days to get here (VA). I know it is
expensive, but I figured this was the one place not to scrimp. I plan
on my little boy flying this, and I never want to have to wonder.
I am making the one piece wing, and I am routing the spars, for one
reason, because it makes the center splice easier. (I can explain why if
anyone is seriously planning on building one-piece wing)
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Gow<mailto:rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Spars
I've got a Piet project which came with material for the spars (3
piece wing). The Guy obviously intended to glue up spar blanks from a
thinner piece of web material and cap strips added to both sides of the
main piece top and bottom. The grain run-out on the cap strips (if that
is what they are called) do not have very good grain characteristics.
I'm thinking to just scrap the material and buy solid spar blanks of the
correct dimension. I'm also wondering if it is worth the effort to
rout out the areas between the ribs as detailed in the plans.
Second question - Did we resolve the motorcycle wheel issue? Have
they been used successfully? What about the size? The plans show 24
inches but I see some folks are using different sizes.
Bob
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
You guys are forgetting to write "do not archive".
Message 40
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Gene,
How are you planning to cut the taper for your spar splices? I made a "ramp"
type affair for my router to ride on, and it worked pretty good. I can dig
up some pictures if you need it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
Ben,
Where in Minnesota are you located?
Contact me off list and we'll see if we can arrange a project visit.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
<html><body>
<DIV>Ben,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Where in Minnesota are you located?</DIV>
<DIV>Contact me off list and we'll see if we can arrange a project visit. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Greg Cardinal</DIV>
<DIV>Minneapolis</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 42
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Here's a re-post from an earlier post on this subject by Walt Evans. I haven't
tried it yet. I have a portable intercom, I think it's an older PS Engineering
unit. works OK but it's very easy to open the mic if you turn your head or
lift your head up out of the protection of the windscreen. I have yet to try
my brother's intercom set... he flies a trike, which is completely open, and his
intercoms are integral to the flight helmets. My headsets are Pacific Coast
Avionics with the foam muff on the mic (knockoff of David Clarks) and work great.
Here's Walt's tip:
Got a great idea from somebody, and the cost is free! Get the plastic 35mm
film containers. Cut an "X" in the lid and slide it on the mic arm. Then
wrap some foam around the mic and slide on the 35mm can after you have
drilled a 1/4" hole in the side. Line up the hole with your mouth. Better
than sliced bread. Just keep the hole tight against your mouth to keep out
engine noise.
My engine noise keeps my intercom open, but makes for a pleasant ride with
me as the tour guide.
walt evans
NX140DL
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 43
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Hey Oscar,
I'll top that,,,
Look here, and you'll see my 35mm film case on the rear mike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLrIDeDLR48
But if you look at the last few seconds of this vid, you'll see the front
mic.
The plastic container from a prize from the vending machine, at the local
diner.
Hey, if it ain't broke,,,don't fix it.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: intercom
>
>
> Here's a re-post from an earlier post on this subject by Walt Evans. I
> haven't tried it yet. I have a portable intercom, I think it's an older
> PS Engineering unit. works OK but it's very easy to open the mic if you
> turn your head or lift your head up out of the protection of the
> windscreen. I have yet to try my brother's intercom set... he flies a
> trike, which is completely open, and his intercoms are integral to the
> flight helmets. My headsets are Pacific Coast Avionics with the foam muff
> on the mic (knockoff of David Clarks) and work great.
>
> Here's Walt's tip:
>
> Got a great idea from somebody, and the cost is free! Get the plastic 35mm
> film containers. Cut an "X" in the lid and slide it on the mic arm. Then
> wrap some foam around the mic and slide on the 35mm can after you have
> drilled a 1/4" hole in the side. Line up the hole with your mouth. Better
> than sliced bread. Just keep the hole tight against your mouth to keep out
> engine noise.
> My engine noise keeps my intercom open, but makes for a pleasant ride with
> me as the tour guide.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
Message 44
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Afternoon group,
Well I went down stairs and touched the glue to see if it was hard enough for
me to pull the rib out of this and its still drying but it was good enough for
me to take so that was # 12 for me.
later,
MN Ben
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage weight |
Gene, I did the same thing with my scales. I found a switch near the
battery that changes it from lb to kg. Don't know how I tripped it but
I did. As you said, it does make a difference.
The other Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight
OK, how come nobody raised the BS flag on me when I posted that my
bare fuselage weighed 33 lbs??? The more I thought about it, I realized
that it could not possibly be right, but I KNEW I weighed it correctly.
Well, my wife just asked me why our bathroom scale was set on kg instead
of lbs . . DOH!!!!
I don't know how to reset the scale, but somehow I must have. A quick
google converts 33.6 kg into 74.0 lbs, which sounds much more
reasonable.
And there I thought I was losing a lot of weight on my beer and pizza
diet.
Damn.
Gene
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
7/22/2008 4:05 PM
Message 46
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I have to agree with Mike on this one. I've bought all my turnbuckles
from B&B. I bought 6 at Oshkosh last week for $8 each, ($3 for the
barrel and $2.50 for the ends. They still add up to one of the most
expensive hardware investments in the project, but I didn't think I
could come up with a home-made alternative that would be any cheaper if
you considered the time involved at all. I've enjoyed some of the
ideas for alternatives presented so far. Some of you guys are a lot
more creative than I am. (But I'm a lot more creative than I was 4
years ago when I started)
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote:
>
> *B&B* *Aircraft* Supplies - This is a mom and pop shop with a whole
> warehouse full of new *aircraft* parts. Nice people and great prices.
> Check here before you go elsewhere. No website, so you need to call or
> fax your order. Phone - 913-884-5930. Fax 913-84-6533.
>
>
>
> Many of you on the list know this to be the most cost effective place
> to purchase brass turnbuckles but the point was driven home
>
> again when I visited them at Oshkosh. No frills, no web site, but
> excellent prices on turnbuckles if you want to cut to the chase
>
> and speed up your process.
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 47
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| Subject: | Auto Gas in an A-65 (with ethanol) |
Well, my last source of ethanol free auto gas seems to have switched
over. Right now I'm switching over to 100 LL in my Baby Ace. Anybody
out there been brave enough to try the gas/ethanol mix in a small
continental in a low and slow airplane?
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Message 48
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| Subject: | Auto Gas in an A-65 (with ethanol) |
Here in Oregon the car gas has ethanol in it. This ethanol is mixed in as
the truck is loaded with fuel at the distributor. If you have a large tank
(300 gal.) they will deliver ethanol free gas at about the same as the loca
l stations
are charging.
Marc> Date: Wed=2C 6 Aug 2008 21:18:38 -0400> From: bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Auto Gas in an
charvet@bellsouth.net>> > Well=2C my last source of ethanol free auto gas s
eems to have switched > over. Right now I'm switching over to 100 LL in my
Baby Ace. Anybody > out there been brave enough to try the gas/ethanol mix
in a small > continental in a low and slow airplane? > > Ben Charvet> Mims
===========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Get more from your digital life. Find out how.
http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home2_082008
Message 49
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| Subject: | The work has started. |
I've started working on my 'new' piet. Here's the list so far: elevators w
ill have to be rebuiltnew tail brace wiresLower lingering replace for the l
ast 25'Move seat back back a few inchesbuild new motor mount For those of
you with a short fuselage and a C65=2C how long a mount did you build and
did you have to move the wing back? Marc
_________________________________________________________________
Your PC=2C mobile phone=2C and online services work together like never bef
ore.
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Message 50
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Thanks all for the responses. I'll keep working on it. I need to do
something about the open mike problem. I now have info to start.
Dick N.
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage weight |
Gene....
-
I thought I was the village idiot......tee-hee-hee (no emotions displayed i
n this post)
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
-
--- On Wed, 8/6/08, Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com> wrote:
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage weight
OK, how come nobody raised the BS flag on me when I posted that my bare fus
elage weighed 33 lbs???- The more I thought about it, I realized that it
could not possibly be right, but I KNEW I weighed it correctly.- Well, my
wife just asked me why our bathroom scale was set on kg instead of lbs . .
DOH!!!!-
-
I don't know how to reset the scale, but somehow I must have.- A quick go
ogle converts 33.6-kg into 74.0 lbs, which sounds much more reasonable.
-
And there I thought I was losing a lot of weight on-my beer and pizza die
t.
-
Damn.
-
Gene
=0A=0A=0A
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: ribs and ailerons |
Try telling that to your wife. :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
. . . and the period goes inside the quotations.
gotcha
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to get into the front seat |
And put the Pitcairn Mailwing logo on the side.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Abramson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 7:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the front
seat
Hello All!
I am building the short fuselage version.... I sat in it and said NO
WAY!!!! (I am 6'2") I then removed the front seat, moved the rudder
bar forward. Now I fit! But it is now a single seat with baggage in
front. Maybe I will make a Mail Plane out of her!!!!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:28 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How hard is it to get into the
front seat
And the long fuselage version gives you a bit more cockpit length
and you can always widen the fuselage as many have done (widened mine
two inches). Of course that doesn't necessarily increase your gross
weight.
Rick
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Kip and Beth Gardner
<kipandbeth@earthlink.net> wrote:
<kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
Tom,
There is a saying that you may not have heard since you are fairly
new to the list - "This plane was designed when midgets ruled the
earth!" Bernard, by all accounts, was about 5'4" and weighed maybe 140
lbs. Now that's just about my size, and my wife is about the same, and
our daughter will probably be about equal or less as an adult, so for
us, yes, it's a capable 2-seater. Heck, we could even carry 50-60 lbs
of baggage if there was space for it! For two 200+ lb. guys, add in a
full load of fuel and you're close to gross, if not over, depending on
how light or heavy you built your plane.
Kip G.
On Aug 5, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
<tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
walt,
How big-butted are you talking about here?
Furthermore, is the Piet a truly capable 2-seater at all?
--------
Location: Eastern N.C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196707#196707
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8/6/2008 4:55 PM
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