Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Mon 08/25/08


Total Messages Posted: 34



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:14 AM - Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general  (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
     2. 07:48 AM - Motorcycle chain shackles (Jack T. Textor)
     3. 08:47 AM - Re: Side by each Piet (Allan Macklem)
     4. 09:18 AM - Re: Motorcycle chain shackles (Bill Church)
     5. 09:36 AM - Re: Side by each Piet (Michael Silvius)
     6. 09:36 AM - Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general  (Rob Stapleton, Jr.)
     7. 10:47 AM - Re: tail wheel (Allan Macklem)
     8. 10:48 AM - Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general  (CozyGirrrl@aol.com)
     9. 11:16 AM - auto engines in general  (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
    10. 12:36 PM - Re: auto engines in general  (CozyGirrrl@aol.com)
    11. 01:02 PM - Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
    12. 01:04 PM - side by each piet (Lawrence Williams)
    13. 01:18 PM - Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general (shad bell)
    14. 01:36 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (walt)
    15. 01:51 PM - Re: auto engines in general  (Dave Abramson)
    16. 02:02 PM - Re: auto engines in general (Robert Gow)
    17. 02:14 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Michael Silvius)
    18. 02:21 PM - Re: side by each piet (Jonathan Ragle)
    19. 02:22 PM - Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general (Ryan Mueller)
    20. 02:39 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Jonathan Ragle)
    21. 02:41 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Michael Silvius)
    22. 02:57 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Jack Phillips)
    23. 03:14 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (walt)
    24. 03:17 PM - Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general (walt)
    25. 03:19 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (walt)
    26. 03:21 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Lagowski Morrow)
    27. 03:32 PM - commercial pilot (RBush96589@aol.com)
    28. 03:36 PM - Re: Commercial Ticket (HelsperSew@aol.com)
    29. 04:02 PM - plywood (Steve Singleton)
    30. 04:33 PM - Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips)
    31. 05:02 PM - Julius Junge (Bill Church)
    32. 06:31 PM - Re: Commercial Ticket (Jim Ash)
    33. 07:39 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (amsafetyc@aol.com)
    34. 11:19 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Clif Dawson)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:14:28 AM PST US
    Subject: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov>
    Shad, group, I really feel for you guys after all the trouble, toils, and inconveniences that engine has caused you. Corvairs seems to be great when they are running well but the trend seems to be that the trade off in cost savings using an auto engine don't equate with giving owners warm fuzzies regarding long term reliability. Even guys who are following William Wynne's methods and Wynne himself are having troubles from time to time. I flew behind a Great Planes 1835cc VW aero kit engine for the past 4.5 years and despite the engine never having missed a beat I just felt very uncomfortable with an engine turning 3200 rpm in cruise. I had numerous little issues with that engine but all were detected and resolved before they became dangerous. The beauty of homebuilding is that you can put whatever engine you want in your Pietenpol and this post in no way is meant to sound elitist or arrogant for all the amazingly knowledgeable auto engine guys out there like William Wynne and you guys who know Corvairs inside and out but I just can't help feel uncomfortable in thinking about flying behind one. I think about John Dilatush from Colorado who built a gorgeous Pietenpol with a turbo Subaru that ran like a Swiss watch and put out the power he needed at his high field elevations only to have the engine die on him returning from Wisconsin because of some kind of ECU or electronic issue with the engine controls. Busted up a wing but walked away healthy. Could have killed him. Mike C.


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:48:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Motorcycle chain shackles
    From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
    This weekend I bought some 520 (I thought a substitute for size 50 chain) motorcycle chain to use for shackles. I disassembled a couple of links to measure the hole size. The outside couplers had a hole size of .208 and the inside couplers had a larger hole at .283. It doesn't appear that either of these will work with 1/8th or 3/16th pins. For those that have used chain links do the pins fit fairly tight? Or is 520 completely different than 50? Thanks! Jack www.textors.com


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:47:30 AM PST US
    From: "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Side by each Piet
    Does anyone have plans or pictures of the empennage push-pull control rods? Allan


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:18:14 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Subject: Motorcycle chain shackles
    Jack, >From what I could find (after doing a quick web search), your assumption was right. #520 is a size of motorcycle chain, and the "5" refers to the pitch (5/8"), same as the 5 in ANSI#50 roller chain. From what I could find, the pin diameter for the outer links in both cases is listed as 5.08mm (or 0.200"). This should give a nice non-binding fit with a 3/16 clevis pin. You don't need a tight fit - and likely wouldn't even want the fit to be tight (for ease of assembly). I believe the motorcycle chain is even tougher than standard roller chain. Bill C _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T. Textor Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle chain shackles This weekend I bought some 520 (I thought a substitute for size 50 chain) motorcycle chain to use for shackles. I disassembled a couple of links to measure the hole size. The outside couplers had a hole size of .208 and the inside couplers had a larger hole at .283. It doesn't appear that either of these will work with 1/8th or 3/16th pins. For those that have used chain links do the pins fit fairly tight? Or is 520 completely different than 50? Thanks! Jack www.textors.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:36:53 AM PST US
    From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius@gwi.net>
    Subject: Re: Side by each Piet
    Allan: No it is a one of thing designed by the builder but if you want to figure it out you could likely get hold of Mike Soucy who owns the side by each Piet now. He my provide some photos. mksoucy@yahoo.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06_I-of-XhM Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem@cox.net> > > Does anyone have plans or pictures of the empennage push-pull control rods? > > Allan >


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:36:55 AM PST US
    From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto@alaska.net>
    Subject: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general
    Group, Just for the record one of the EAA technical advisors that is an A&P told me, "If you are going to hang anything automotive on that airplane then I am not going to waste my time with you. That's for those guys in the Lower 48 who can land in a corn field or out on a farm road when their engine quits-and it will quit-so I recommend you put something reliable like a Continental or Lycoming on that, and forget about a car engine. Up here if your engine quits it will take you a week to walk to where someone could give you some help!" I am putting the Corvair conversion on anyway! Rob Anchorage, Alaska Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, Alaska 907-230-9425 KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr IM Windows Live Messenger: foto@alaska.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general Shad, group, I really feel for you guys after all the trouble, toils, and inconveniences that engine has caused you. Corvairs seems to be great when they are running well but the trend seems to be that the trade off in cost savings using an auto engine don't equate with giving owners warm fuzzies regarding long term reliability. Even guys who are following William Wynne's methods and Wynne himself are having troubles from time to time. I flew behind a Great Planes 1835cc VW aero kit engine for the past 4.5 years and despite the engine never having missed a beat I just felt very uncomfortable with an engine turning 3200 rpm in cruise. I had numerous little issues with that engine but all were detected and resolved before they became dangerous. The beauty of homebuilding is that you can put whatever engine you want in your Pietenpol and this post in no way is meant to sound elitist or arrogant for all the amazingly knowledgeable auto engine guys out there like William Wynne and you guys who know Corvairs inside and out but I just can't help feel uncomfortable in thinking about flying behind one. I think about John Dilatush from Colorado who built a gorgeous Pietenpol with a turbo Subaru that ran like a Swiss watch and put out the power he needed at his high field elevations only to have the engine die on him returning from Wisconsin because of some kind of ECU or electronic issue with the engine controls. Busted up a wing but walked away healthy. Could have killed him. Mike C.


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:47:03 AM PST US
    From: "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: tail wheel
    Dan, Apparently I missed earlier discussion of your tailwheel. Would you please tell me what you have (off line)? Allan Macklem AWMacklem@cox.net


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:48:00 AM PST US
    From: CozyGirrrl@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general
    Rob, I do not have an axe to grind on either side of this argument, I do take issue with people who, like your cocky "EAA tech advisor/A&P", FORCES their opinion on other individuals. Maybe you should forward him this URL to open his naive myopic eyes: _http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html_ (http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html) on certified engine bloopers and blu nders. I guess his version of "Experimental Aviation" is a dazzling choice of accent stripe colors and interior fabrics? Regards, Chrissi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ====== In a message dated 8/25/2008 11:38:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, foto@alaska.net writes: Group, Just for the record one of the EAA technical advisors that is an A&P told me, =9CIf you are going to hang anything automotive on that airplane then I am not going to waste my time with you. That=99s for those guys in the L ower 48 who can land in a corn field or out on a farm road when their engine quits =94and it will quit=94so I recommend you put something reliable like a Continen tal or Lycoming on that, and forget about a car engine. Up here if your engine qui ts it will take you a week to walk to where someone could give you some help! =9D I am putting the Corvair conversion on anyway! Rob Anchorage, Alaska Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, Alaska 907-230-9425 KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr IM Windows Live Messenger: foto@alaska.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general Shad, group, I really feel for you guys after all the trouble, toils, and inconveniences that engine has caused you. Corvairs seems to be great when they are running well but the trend seems to be that the trade off in cost savings using an auto engine don't equate with giving owners warm fuzzies regarding long term reliability. Even guys who are following William Wynne's methods and Wynne himself are having troubles from time to time. I flew behind a Great Planes 1835cc VW aero kit engine for the past 4.5 years and despite the engine never having missed a beat I just felt very uncomfortable with an engine turning 3200 rpm in cruise. I had numerous little issues with that engine but all were detected and resolved before they became dangerous. The beauty of homebuilding is that you can put whatever engine you want in your Pietenpol and this post in no way is meant to sound elitist or arrogant for all the amazingly knowledgeable auto engine guys ou t there like William Wynne and you guys who know Corvairs inside and out but I just can't help feel uncomfortable in thinking about flying behind one. I think about John Dilatush from Colorado who built a gorgeous Pietenpol with a turbo Subaru that ran like a Swiss watch and put out the power he needed at his high field elevations only to have the engine di e on him returning from Wisconsin because of some kind of ECU or electronic issue with the engine controls. Busted up a wing but walked away healthy. Could have killed him. Mike C. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your trave l deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:16:36 AM PST US
    Subject: auto engines in general
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov>
    I couldn't agree with Chrissi more about her post about that myopic technical counselor and his statement about auto engines. Just as many errors can be made building up an aircraft engine as an auto engine and just as many pilots will have trouble running out of fuel or flying into weather they can't handle. I wouldn't rubber stamp or paint with such a wide brush as to rule out anything for a homebuilt or any option 'just like that'. That's what draws me to a plans-built airplane: the freedom of flexibility and choice in almost everything you choose or fabricate. There are guys like Ken Perkins and Lowell Frank who have flown hundreds if not thousands of hours behind very nicely built Model A Ford /Funk automotive engines with good reliability and performance....but they really, really know what they are doing. There was an old saying of an engineer I used to work with when things would break or not work he would look at me with all the seriousness and sarcasm he could muster: "inanimate objects are out to get me." Mike C.


    Message 10


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    Time: 12:36:35 PM PST US
    From: CozyGirrrl@aol.com
    Subject: Re: auto engines in general
    Well said Mike, I was amused coming into this group in that here we have one of the original pioneer homebuilts with what for the original choice of engines? The Model A? It does not get much more fundamentally alternative or automotive than that. ....or simpler. That is what I admire about the "certified solution"; simplicity. They've done everything possible with an aircraft engine to be sure that by default, it runs. Hard to beat that or argue with it anyway. I did not say anything about cheap, cost effective or reliable. It always seems that when your alternative engine has a fault that it fully meets the expectations of your certified friends and ramp quarterbacks, yet when their certified engine swallows a valve, breaks a crank, or throws an entire cylinder assembly out through the side of the cowling (do not laugh this has happened) that this is perfectly ok and normal because it is a known modality of failure. I guess there is satisfaction and comfort in knowing your failure modes? So now somebody tell me who is ahead here, the guy walking out of the Alaskan wilderness because he has discovered a new way his alternative engine can stop running or the other guy walking out of the Alaskan wilderness thankful only his certified crankshaft broke? Regards, Chrissi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ============================== **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:02:43 PM PST US
    Subject: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov>
    A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a nice Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis. One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite often. That was his choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood, steel, welding practices, and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't want to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists. Mike C.


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:04:40 PM PST US
    From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com>
    Subject: side by each piet
    Wow....with 15 yrs of collecting Pietenpol memorabilia and every BPANewslet ter ever published, I never saw mention of plans from BHP for a "side by ea ch" design. The Pietenpol family doesn't even list them. That must be a rea lly rare and valuable prototype that should be preserved in a museum. - On a more serious note; with the herd thundering to replace original (awful , dangerous and out-dated) airfoil with newer and better ones, how is the d ecalage being determined? Seems to me that just bolting the new one up woul d mean a great deal more positive incidence unless the cabanes were altered . WWLD? (What Would Lowell Do). - Larry W.=0A=0A=0A


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:18:51 PM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general
    Group, machines break, thats what they do.- Thats why we do preflight ins pections, 50hr, 100hr and so on.- I work on airliners, with 100's of thou sands of dollars in one little box.- We change engines almost every night ,and only a fleet of 200 airplanes. Believe it or not they ARE aircraft tur bine engines.- I guess maybe some might think people flying chevys, fords , suburu and so on are loose cannons.- We have never had our corvair quit , even when the crank broke it would still run.- (Don't fly down on the d eck if you that concerned, have plenty of-altitude to glide to a safe lan ding)- Never had any trouble starting it up.- Working out the grimlins is part of building anything, from a streetrod to a motercycle, and occasio nally you do get a bad part, Hell I remember getting 2 bad vacume pumps for a 172 I was working on years ago, that was a nightmare to trouble shoot, b ut luckly for the customer the vender he bought them from verified the factory defect.-Even the million dollar airliner parts come "bad from st ock", once in a while.-As for getting stranded in the back country or wil derness of Alaska, I personally would not put myself in a situation where a smooth, safe forced landing would be a deadly situation, due to starvation freezing etc.- Don't get to big for your britches, no matter what you fl y.- As soon as you start thinking your engine is unstopable, you are aski ng for trouble.- OK off my soapbox now, but in short yes you will probabl y have to tinker with an auto conversion more than a Cont, Lyc, but as long as you do regular, thorough inspections, the same safety margin can be mai ntained. - My 2 1/2 cents Shad=0A=0A=0A


    Message 14


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    Time: 01:36:51 PM PST US
    From: "walt" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolThanks Mike, You always put things into chrystal clear perspective. Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard". I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices, and Morals. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a nice Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis. One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite often. That was his choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood, steel, welding practices, and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't want to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists. Mike C.


    Message 15


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    Time: 01:51:40 PM PST US
    From: "Dave Abramson" <davea@symbolicdisplays.com>
    Subject: auto engines in general
    A buddy of mine with an Aeronca Chief was recently flying to a fly in..... had his A-65 split the case in the wrong direction all by itself. I think it was 300 hours SMOH.... I heard the suspected failer was that a con rod broke, and in the few seconds it took to shutdown was enough for it to go thru the case. Parts and oil everywhere! He was lucky to be going past an airfield at the time, and put it down on the #'s. (just) If it's mechanical it can break...... Just some things break sooner, or more often than others...... I kind of think it is best to use the right tool for the right job. I want to fly, so I will use an aircraft engine..... Just my 2 cents Cheers! 140 Dave...... soon to be Pietenpol Dave..... followed by WW1 fighter Dave!!!!!! do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of CozyGirrrl@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 12:30 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: auto engines in general Well said Mike, I was amused coming into this group in that here we have one of the original pioneer homebuilts with what for the original choice of engines? The Model A? It does not get much more fundamentally alternative or automotive than that. ....or simpler. That is what I admire about the "certified solution"; simplicity. They've done everything possible with an aircraft engine to be sure that by default, it runs. Hard to beat that or argue with it anyway. I did not say anything about cheap, cost effective or reliable. It always seems that when your alternative engine has a fault that it fully meets the expectations of your certified friends and ramp quarterbacks, yet when their certified engine swallows a valve, breaks a crank, or throws an entire cylinder assembly out through the side of the cowling (do not laugh this has happened) that this is perfectly ok and normal because it is a known modality of failure. I guess there is satisfaction and comfort in knowing your failure modes? So now somebody tell me who is ahead here, the guy walking out of the Alaskan wilderness because he has discovered a new way his alternative engine can stop running or the other guy walking out of the Alaskan wilderness thankful only his certified crankshaft broke? Regards, Chrissi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ============================== ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.


    Message 16


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    Time: 02:02:53 PM PST US
    From: "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
    Subject: auto engines in general
    The right tool for a Pietenpol is a Ford. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Abramson Sent: August 25, 2008 4:51 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: auto engines in general A buddy of mine with an Aeronca Chief was recently flying to a fly in..... had his A-65 split the case in the wrong direction all by itself. I think it was 300 hours SMOH.... I heard the suspected failer was that a con rod broke, and in the few seconds it took to shutdown was enough for it to go thru the case. Parts and oil everywhere! He was lucky to be going past an airfield at the time, and put it down on the #'s. (just) If it's mechanical it can break...... Just some things break sooner, or more often than others...... I kind of think it is best to use the right tool for the right job. I want to fly, so I will use an aircraft engine..... Just my 2 cents Cheers! 140 Dave...... soon to be Pietenpol Dave..... followed by WW1 fighter Dave!!!!!! do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of CozyGirrrl@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 12:30 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: auto engines in general Well said Mike, I was amused coming into this group in that here we have one of the original pioneer homebuilts with what for the original choice of engines? The Model A? It does not get much more fundamentally alternative or automotive than that. ....or simpler. That is what I admire about the "certified solution"; simplicity. They've done everything possible with an aircraft engine to be sure that by default, it runs. Hard to beat that or argue with it anyway. I did not say anything about cheap, cost effective or reliable. It always seems that when your alternative engine has a fault that it fully meets the expectations of your certified friends and ramp quarterbacks, yet when their certified engine swallows a valve, breaks a crank, or throws an entire cylinder assembly out through the side of the cowling (do not laugh this has happened) that this is perfectly ok and normal because it is a known modality of failure. I guess there is satisfaction and comfort in knowing your failure modes? So now somebody tell me who is ahead here, the guy walking out of the Alaskan wilderness because he has discovered a new way his alternative engine can stop running or the other guy walking out of the Alaskan wilderness thankful only his certified crankshaft broke? Regards, Chrissi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ============================== ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 17


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    Time: 02:14:11 PM PST US
    From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius@gwi.net>
    Subject: Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolMike: I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and back about 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on the back 40, milled it and started building. About six months from tree to finished flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I hear tell it is still out there flying. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a nice Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis. One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite often. That was his choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood, steel, welding practices, and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't want to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists. Mike C.


    Message 18


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    Time: 02:21:31 PM PST US
    From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>
    Subject: side by each piet
    The airfoil is kind of a conversation piece=2C but it seems that a Piet wit h a Cub wing would be a much better flying machine. But with continentals =2C a new wing=2C modern prop etc at what point is it still a piet? npol-List: side by each pietTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Wow....with 15 yrs of collecting Pietenpol memorabilia and every BPANewslet ter ever published=2C I never saw mention of plans from BHP for a "side by each" design. The Pietenpol family doesn't even list them. That must be a r eally rare and valuable prototype that should be preserved in a museum. On a more serious note=3B with the herd thundering to replace original (awf ul=2C dangerous and out-dated) airfoil with newer and better ones=2C how is the decalage being determined? Seems to me that just bolting the new one u p would mean a great deal more positive incidence unless the cabanes were a ltered. WWLD? (What Would Lowell Do). Larry W. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D _________________________________________________________________ Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_P hoto_Gallery_082008


    Message 19


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    Time: 02:22:52 PM PST US
    From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general
    I second Crissi on this. You are a technical counselor for the *Experimental* Aircraft Association, and you do not want some to use an experimental engine solely because of your narrow minded, prejudicial point of view? If this gentleman is your Tech Counselor on your project, you may want to seek out a new one. Ryan On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, <CozyGirrrl@aol.com> wrote: > Rob, I do not have an axe to grind on either side of this argument, I do > take issue with people who, like your cocky "EAA tech advisor/A&P", FORCES > their opinion on other individuals. Maybe you should forward him this URL to > open his naive myopic eyes: http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html on > certified engine bloopers and blunders. > I guess his version of "Experimental Aviation" is a dazzling choice of > accent stripe colors and interior fabrics? > > Regards, Chrissi > > CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware > www.CozyGirrrl.com > Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo > Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details > ============================== >


    Message 20


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    Time: 02:39:22 PM PST US
    From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    He should have taken a pic of the tree and then the airplane for a before a nd after. That would be awesome. On one hand I don't want a ride in it on the other hand that is the true Pietenpol spirit. Bernard himself would h ave been more ballsy that me. He would have flown it. Jonathan From: silvius@gwi.netTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol -List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolDate: Mon=2C 25 Aug 2008 17:12:38 -0500 Mike: I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and back abo ut 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on the back 40 =2C milled it and started building. About six months from tree to finished flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I hear tell it is st ill out there flying. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy=2C Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Monday=2C August 25=2C 2008 3:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a ni ce Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis. One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survive d with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine th at you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for year s=2C given many rides=2C and gone cross country quite often. That was hi s choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe air plane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood=2C steel=2C welding pr actices=2C and other fabrication methods that are known=2C tried=2C and tru e. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't w ant to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I too k artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulk heads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more stability=2C made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Cha mp....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists. Mike C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with Windows=AE.


    Message 21


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    Time: 02:41:46 PM PST US
    From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius@gwi.net>
    Subject: Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolAnd then theres this fellow in Brazil. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1dMyonbPY0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGmlH64hBLw 4 months from start to finish. he skipped the plans part, not a sheet of paper was used, made it up in his own head as he went along. powered by a 73 hp 1978 Ford Corcel engine note the "instrument panel" The fisherman from Belize has nothing on this guy. Michael


    Message 22


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    Time: 02:57:58 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    Mike has morals? Since when? Jack Phillips NX899JP Finally an honest to goodness certified Commercial Pilot today. Passed the checkride this afternoon, only 38 ' =BD years after I got my Private license. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol Thanks Mike, You always put things into chrystal clear perspective. Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard". I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices, and Morals. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, <mailto:Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov> Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a nice Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis. One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite often. That was his choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood, steel, welding practices, and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't want to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists. Mike C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 23


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    Time: 03:14:28 PM PST US
    From: "walt" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolMichael , Sounds like "Poplar Piet" Fellow who had a picture of himself next to a poplar tree then next to the plane he made out of it. But alas, think he crashed it. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Silvius To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol Mike: I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and back about 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on the back 40, milled it and started building. About six months from tree to finished flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I hear tell it is still out there flying. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a nice Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis. One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite often. That was his choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood, steel, welding practices, and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't want to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists. Mike C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 24


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    Time: 03:17:56 PM PST US
    From: "walt" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general
    Nah, shouldn't be too hard on the Tech Councelor, In days past he could have supported a similar engine, and could have lost someone in a crash. You never know. Can't judge a guys opinion on things that you are not aware of. A tech is entitled to his opinions too! My mentor of many years, and was Desgner and AP for Leo Laudenschleger <sp> Won't fly in a metal airplane,,,only fabric,,,Go figure. But for me, his opinion goes,,,for everything. Ain't Life Grand! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:22 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general I second Crissi on this. You are a technical counselor for the *Experimental* Aircraft Association, and you do not want some to use an experimental engine solely because of your narrow minded, prejudicial point of view? If this gentleman is your Tech Counselor on your project, you may want to seek out a new one. Ryan On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, <CozyGirrrl@aol.com> wrote: Rob, I do not have an axe to grind on either side of this argument, I do take issue with people who, like your cocky "EAA tech advisor/A&P", FORCES their opinion on other individuals. Maybe you should forward him this URL to open his naive myopic eyes: http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html on certified engine bloopers and blunders. I guess his version of "Experimental Aviation" is a dazzling choice of accent stripe colors and interior fabrics? Regards, Chrissi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details =====


    Message 25


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    Time: 03:19:18 PM PST US
    From: "walt" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolGood one. Morals are better than lessals. :^) do not archive walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:57 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol Mike has morals? Since when? Jack Phillips NX899JP Finally an honest to goodness certified Commercial Pilot today. Passed the checkride this afternoon, only 38 - =BD years after I got my Private license. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:36 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol Thanks Mike, You always put things into chrystal clear perspective. Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard". I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices, and Morals. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a nice Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis. One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite often. That was his choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood, steel, welding practices, and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't want to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists. Mike C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 26


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    Time: 03:21:24 PM PST US
    From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolCONGRATS!!- Jim Lagowski Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:57 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol Mike has morals? Since when? Jack Phillips NX899JP Finally an honest to goodness certified Commercial Pilot today. Passed the checkride this afternoon, only 38 - =BD years after I got my Private license. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:36 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol Thanks Mike, You always put things into chrystal clear perspective. Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard". I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices, and Morals. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a nice Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis. One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite often. That was his choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood, steel, welding practices, and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't want to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists. Mike C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 8/24/2008 12:15 PM


    Message 27


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    Time: 03:32:06 PM PST US
    From: RBush96589@aol.com
    Subject: commercial pilot
    congratulations Jack,that has to be a satisfying accomplishment! Randy Bush do not archive **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


    Message 28


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    Time: 03:36:19 PM PST US
    From: HelsperSew@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Commercial Ticket
    Jack, Congratulations on your commercial ticket!!! Now tell us what you are planning to do with it. I got mine when I was 18 years old, and it took me till age 51 to actually exercise my privileges. I have a photo of myself holding the first check for $56.00 that I earned legally, taking a guy out to do aerial photography. That is the first (and only) money I ever "made" flying. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


    Message 29


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    Time: 04:02:15 PM PST US
    From: "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton@cvalley.net>
    Subject: plywood
    Hi everyone. I've been lurking for sometime now and really enjoy the site. I have decided to use birch plywood but am wondering which type to buy. Birch Basswood or Birch Popular or does it matter. Also what is your thought on ordering 1/4in number one grade exterior Birch from the local lumber yard. Thanks for your help. Steve Singleton


    Message 30


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    Time: 04:33:40 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Commercial Ticket
    Main reason I wanted the commercial is to get my CFI ticket, and do tailwheel endorsements. Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Commercial Ticket Jack, Congratulations on your commercial ticket!!! Now tell us what you are planning to do with it. I got mine when I was 18 years old, and it took me till age 51 to actually exercise my privileges. I have a photo of myself holding the first check for $56.00 that I earned legally, taking a guy out to do aerial photography. That is the first (and only) money I ever "made" flying. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> here.


    Message 31


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    Time: 05:02:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Julius Junge
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Just received word from Dee Mosher of the passing of Julius Junge. For those of you that are not aware of Julius, he was a regular contributor to the Brodhead Pietenpol Association Newsletter. A very knowledgable man in the field of aviation and homebuilts. Limited details (which will be updated when available) can be found the the BPA website. http://pietenpols.org/ I will definitely miss Julius' contributions to the newsletters. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0571#200571


    Message 32


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    Time: 06:31:25 PM PST US
    From: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Commercial Ticket
    Is the instrument still optional for the commercial? Did you get the instrument, too? Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> >Sent: Aug 25, 2008 7:33 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Commercial Ticket > >Main reason I wanted the commercial is to get my CFI ticket, and do >tailwheel endorsements. > > > >Jack > > > > _____ > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >HelsperSew@aol.com >Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:36 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Commercial Ticket > > > >Jack, > > > >Congratulations on your commercial ticket!!! Now tell us what you are >planning to do with it. I got mine when I was 18 years old, and it took me >till age 51 to actually exercise my privileges. I have a photo of myself >holding the first check for $56.00 that I earned legally, taking a guy out >to do aerial photography. That is the first (and only) money I ever "made" >flying. > > > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL. > > > _____ > >It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal ><http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> here. > >


    Message 33


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    Time: 07:39:37 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    From: amsafetyc@aol.com
    Tm90IGEgdmVyeSBzZXR0bGluZyB0aG91Z2h0IGZvciBzb21lb25lIGJ1aWxkaW5nIHdpdGggcG9w bGFyDQoNCkxpa2UgbWUNCg0KSm9obg0KU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZlcml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3MgQmxh Y2tCZXJyeQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogIndhbHQiIDx3YWx0 ZGFrQHZlcml6b24ubmV0Pg0KDQpEYXRlOiBNb24sIDI1IEF1ZyAyMDA4IDE4OjEwOjU0IA0KVG86 IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1M aXN0OiBFbG1lcidzIHdoaXRlIGdsdWUgYW5kIEhvbWUgRGVwb3QgcGluZSBQaWV0ZW5wb2wNCg0K DQpFbG1lcidzIHdoaXRlIGdsdWUgYW5kIEhvbWUgRGVwb3QgcGluZSBQaWV0ZW5wb2xNaWNoYWVs ICwNClNvdW5kcyBsaWtlICJQb3BsYXIgUGlldCINCkZlbGxvdyB3aG8gaGFkIGEgcGljdHVyZSBv ZiBoaW1zZWxmIG5leHQgdG8gYSBwb3BsYXIgdHJlZSB0aGVuIG5leHQgdG8gdGhlIHBsYW5lIGhl IG1hZGUgb3V0IG9mIGl0Lg0KQnV0IGFsYXMsIHRoaW5rIGhlIGNyYXNoZWQgaXQuDQp3YWx0IGV2 YW5zDQpOWDE0MERMDQoNCg0KICAtLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KICBGcm9t OiBNaWNoYWVsIFNpbHZpdXMgDQogIFRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0K ICBTZW50OiBNb25kYXksIEF1Z3VzdCAyNSwgMjAwOCA2OjEyIFBNDQogIFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQ aWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogRWxtZXIncyB3aGl0ZSBnbHVlIGFuZCBIb21lIERlcG90IHBpbmUgUGll dGVucG9sDQoNCg0KICBNaWtlOg0KDQogIEkga25vdyBhIGZhcm1lciBhIHJlYWwgb2xkIHRpbWVy IHdobyBnb2VzIGJ5IHRoZSBuYW1lIG9mIEx1Y2t5IGFuZCBiYWNrIGFib3V0IDE5ODUgaGUgYnVp bHQgaGltc2VsZiBhIFBpZXQuIEhlIGN1dCBkb3duIGEgcG9wbGFyIHRyZWUgb24gdGhlIGJhY2sg NDAsIG1pbGxlZCBpdCBhbmQgc3RhcnRlZCBidWlsZGluZy4gQWJvdXQgc2l4IG1vbnRocyBmcm9t IHRyZWUgdG8gZmluaXNoZWQgZmx5aW5nIHBsYW5lLiBOb3QgbXVjaCBmb3IgY29zbWV0aWNzIG9u IGhpcyByZW5kaXRpb24uIEkgaGVhciB0ZWxsIGl0IGlzIHN0aWxsIG91dCB0aGVyZSBmbHlpbmcu IA0KDQogIE1pY2hhZWwgDQoNCg0KICAgIC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQog ICAgRnJvbTogQ3V5LCBNaWNoYWVsIEQuIChHUkMtUlhEMClbQVNSQ10gDQogICAgVG86IHBpZXRl bnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gDQogICAgU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgMjUsIDIw MDggMzowMCBQTQ0KICAgIFN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBFbG1lcidzIHdoaXRlIGds dWUgYW5kIEhvbWUgRGVwb3QgcGluZSBQaWV0ZW5wb2wNCg0KDQoNCg0KICAgIEEgbnVtYmVyIG9m IHllYXJzIGFnbyB3aGVuIEkgZmlyc3Qgc3RhcnRlZCBnb2luZyB0byBCcm9kaGVhZCBJIG5vdGlj ZWQgYSBuaWNlIENvbnRpbmVudGFsIHBvd2VyZWQgUGlldCANCiAgICBidWlsdCBieSBzby1hbmQt c28uICAgSXQgd2FzIGEgYml0IHN0cmVhbWxpbmVkIGFuZCBoYWQgd2hlZWwgcGFudHMgYW5kIGF0 dGVuZGVkIG9uIGEgcmVndWxhciBiYXNpcy4gDQoNCiAgICBPbmUgeWVhciBhZnRlciBJIGxlZnQg dGhlIGZseS1pbiBJIGdvdCBhIHBob25lIGNhbGwgZnJvbSBhIGZyaWVuZCB3aG8gc2FpZCB0aGF0 IG9sZSBzby1hbmQtc28gc3RhbGwtc3B1biBoaXMgUGlldCANCiAgICBpbnRvIHRoZSB0cmVlcyBu ZWFyYnkgdGhlIGFpcnBvcnQgYXQgQnJvZGhlYWQuICBUaGUgdGFsbCBwaW5lcyBjdXNoaW9uZWQg dGhlIGltcGFjdCBhbmQgdGhlIG93bmVyL3BpbG90IA0KICAgIHN1cnZpdmVkIHdpdGggbm8gaG9z cGl0YWwgdmlzaXQgcmVxdWlyZWQuICAgVGhlIHJlY292ZXJ5IGNyZXcgc2FpZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBl bnRpcmUgYWlycGxhbmUgd2FzIGJ1aWx0IHdpdGggDQogICAgd2hpdGUgRWxtZXIncyBnbHVlIGFu ZCByZWd1bGFyIHdoaXRlIGdyYWRlIHBpbmUgdGhhdCB5b3UnZCBnZXQgYXQgTG93ZSdzIG9yIEhv bWUgRGVwb3QuICAgSGUnZCBiZWVuIGZseWluZyANCiAgICBsaWtlIHRoYXQgZm9yIHllYXJzLCBn aXZlbiBtYW55IHJpZGVzLCBhbmQgZ29uZSBjcm9zcyBjb3VudHJ5IHF1aXRlIG9mdGVuLiAgICBU aGF0IHdhcyBoaXMgY2hvaWNlIGFuZCBoZSANCiAgICBmbGV3IG1hbnkgZW5qb3lhYmxlIGhvdXJz IGJ1dC4uLi4uYWdhaW4gaXQgaXMgdGhlIGJ1aWxkZXIncyBjaG9pY2UgYW5kIGlmIHlvdSBrbm93 IGhvdyB0byBwaWNrIG91dCB3b29kIA0KICAgIHlvdSBjYW4gaGF2ZSBhIHByZXR0eSBzYWZlIGFp cnBsYW5lLi4ub3RoZXJ3aXNlIHVzZSB0aGUgYWNjZXB0ZWQgc3RhbmRhcmRzIG9mIHdvb2QsIHN0 ZWVsLCB3ZWxkaW5nIHByYWN0aWNlcywgDQogICAgYW5kIG90aGVyIGZhYnJpY2F0aW9uIG1ldGhv ZHMgdGhhdCBhcmUga25vd24sIHRyaWVkLCBhbmQgdHJ1ZS4gICAgSSBkaWRuJ3Qgd2FudCB0byBy ZXNlYXJjaCBldmVyeSBzaW5nbGUgZGVjaXNpb24gDQogICAgYWQtbmF1c2V1bSBzbyBJIHN0dWNr IHRvIHdoYXQgd2FzIHByZXR0eSBtdWNoIEZBQSBhY2NlcHRlZCBwcmFjdGljZXMgYW5kIG1hdGVy aWFscy4gICBJIGRpZG4ndCB3YW50IHRvIGh1cnQgDQogICAgbXkgYnJhaW4gYnkgcmUtaW52ZW50 aW5nIHRoZSB3aGVlbC4gICBDb3NtZXRpY2FsbHkgdGhvdWdoIEkgdG9vayBhcnRpc3RpYyBsaWNl bnNlIHdpdGggdGhpbmdzIGxpa2UgcmFpc2luZyB0aGUgDQogICAgdHVydGxlZGVjayBhbmQgY29j a3BpdCBidWxraGVhZHMgYnkgMSIgZm9yIGEgbW9yZSByb3VuZGVkIGxvb2suLi4uLm1hZGUgbXkg bGFuZGluZyBnZWFyIHdpZGVyIGZvciBtb3JlIA0KICAgIHN0YWJpbGl0eSwgbWFkZSBteSBkZWNr IGFuZ2xlIHRoYXQgb2Ygd2hhdCBJIHdhcyB1c2VkIHRvLi5hbiBBZXJvbmNhIENoYW1wLi4uLnB1 dCBteSBsdWdnYWdlIHdoZXJlIFBpZXRlbnBvbCANCiAgICBwdXQgZ2Fzb2xpbmUgYW5kIGluc3Rh bGxlZCBhIG5vc2UgdGFuayBpbnN0ZWFkLi4uYW5kIGNocm9tZWQgdXAgYSBmZXcgaXRlbXMganVz dCB0byBhbm5veSB0aGUgcHVyaXN0cy4gDQoNCiAgICBNaWtlIEMuIA0KDQoNCg0KaHJlZj0iaHR0 cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCI+aHR0cDovL3d3 dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdA0KaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2Zv cnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIj5odHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCmhyZWY9Imh0 dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24iPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNz LmNvbS9jDQoNCg0KDQo


    Message 34


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    Time: 11:19:02 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
    Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolSince the last rain. They're growing in his back yard. :-) I'm using the equivalent to T-88 but when you think about it how much moisture is going to get past the varnish encasing everything? Eventually yes but it could be many years. Possibly never for a hangered AC. Good for you Jack. That's a lot of work crammed into a half a year. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 2:57 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol Mike has morals? Since when? Jack Phillips NX899JP Finally an honest to goodness certified Commercial Pilot today. Passed the checkride this afternoon, only 38 - =BD years after I got my Private license. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:36 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol Thanks Mike, You always put things into chrystal clear perspective. Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard". I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices, and Morals. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a nice Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis. One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite often. That was his choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood, steel, welding practices, and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't want to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists. Mike C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 8/25/2008 8:48 PM




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