Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:14 AM - Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
2. 07:48 AM - Motorcycle chain shackles (Jack T. Textor)
3. 08:47 AM - Re: Side by each Piet (Allan Macklem)
4. 09:18 AM - Re: Motorcycle chain shackles (Bill Church)
5. 09:36 AM - Re: Side by each Piet (Michael Silvius)
6. 09:36 AM - Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general (Rob Stapleton, Jr.)
7. 10:47 AM - Re: tail wheel (Allan Macklem)
8. 10:48 AM - Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general (CozyGirrrl@aol.com)
9. 11:16 AM - auto engines in general (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
10. 12:36 PM - Re: auto engines in general (CozyGirrrl@aol.com)
11. 01:02 PM - Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
12. 01:04 PM - side by each piet (Lawrence Williams)
13. 01:18 PM - Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general (shad bell)
14. 01:36 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (walt)
15. 01:51 PM - Re: auto engines in general (Dave Abramson)
16. 02:02 PM - Re: auto engines in general (Robert Gow)
17. 02:14 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Michael Silvius)
18. 02:21 PM - Re: side by each piet (Jonathan Ragle)
19. 02:22 PM - Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general (Ryan Mueller)
20. 02:39 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Jonathan Ragle)
21. 02:41 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Michael Silvius)
22. 02:57 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Jack Phillips)
23. 03:14 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (walt)
24. 03:17 PM - Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general (walt)
25. 03:19 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (walt)
26. 03:21 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Lagowski Morrow)
27. 03:32 PM - commercial pilot (RBush96589@aol.com)
28. 03:36 PM - Re: Commercial Ticket (HelsperSew@aol.com)
29. 04:02 PM - plywood (Steve Singleton)
30. 04:33 PM - Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips)
31. 05:02 PM - Julius Junge (Bill Church)
32. 06:31 PM - Re: Commercial Ticket (Jim Ash)
33. 07:39 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (amsafetyc@aol.com)
34. 11:19 PM - Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
Shad, group,
I really feel for you guys after all the trouble, toils, and
inconveniences that engine has caused you. Corvairs seems to be great
when they
are running well but the trend seems to be that the trade off in cost
savings using an auto engine don't equate with giving owners
warm fuzzies regarding long term reliability. Even guys who are
following William Wynne's methods and Wynne himself are having
troubles from time to time.
I flew behind a Great Planes 1835cc VW aero kit engine for the past 4.5
years and despite the engine never having missed a beat I just
felt very uncomfortable with an engine turning 3200 rpm in cruise. I
had numerous little issues with that engine but all were detected
and resolved before they became dangerous.
The beauty of homebuilding is that you can put whatever engine you want
in your Pietenpol and this post in no way is meant to sound
elitist or arrogant for all the amazingly knowledgeable auto engine guys
out there like William Wynne and you guys who know Corvairs
inside and out but I just can't help feel uncomfortable in thinking
about flying behind one.
I think about John Dilatush from Colorado who built a gorgeous Pietenpol
with a turbo Subaru that ran like a Swiss watch and put out
the power he needed at his high field elevations only to have the engine
die on him returning from Wisconsin because of some kind of
ECU or electronic issue with the engine controls. Busted up a wing but
walked away healthy. Could have killed him.
Mike C.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Motorcycle chain shackles |
This weekend I bought some 520 (I thought a substitute for size 50
chain) motorcycle chain to use for shackles. I disassembled a couple of
links to measure the hole size. The outside couplers had a hole size of
.208 and the inside couplers had a larger hole at .283. It doesn't
appear that either of these will work with 1/8th or 3/16th pins. For
those that have used chain links do the pins fit fairly tight? Or is
520 completely different than 50?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Side by each Piet |
Does anyone have plans or pictures of the empennage push-pull control rods?
Allan
Message 4
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| Subject: | Motorcycle chain shackles |
Jack,
>From what I could find (after doing a quick web search), your assumption was
right. #520 is a size of motorcycle chain, and the "5" refers to the pitch
(5/8"), same as the 5 in ANSI#50 roller chain. From what I could find, the
pin diameter for the outer links in both cases is listed as 5.08mm (or
0.200"). This should give a nice non-binding fit with a 3/16 clevis pin. You
don't need a tight fit - and likely wouldn't even want the fit to be tight
(for ease of assembly). I believe the motorcycle chain is even tougher than
standard roller chain.
Bill C
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T.
Textor
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle chain shackles
This weekend I bought some 520 (I thought a substitute for size 50 chain)
motorcycle chain to use for shackles. I disassembled a couple of links to
measure the hole size. The outside couplers had a hole size of .208 and the
inside couplers had a larger hole at .283. It doesn't appear that either of
these will work with 1/8th or 3/16th pins. For those that have used chain
links do the pins fit fairly tight? Or is 520 completely different than 50?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Side by each Piet |
Allan:
No it is a one of thing designed by the builder but if you want to figure it
out you could likely get hold of Mike Soucy who owns the side by each Piet
now. He my provide some photos.
mksoucy@yahoo.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06_I-of-XhM
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem@cox.net>
>
> Does anyone have plans or pictures of the empennage push-pull control
rods?
>
> Allan
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
Group,
Just for the record one of the EAA technical advisors that is an A&P
told
me, "If you are going to hang anything automotive on that airplane then
I am
not going to waste my time with you. That's for those guys in the Lower
48
who can land in a corn field or out on a farm road when their engine
quits-and it will quit-so I recommend you put something reliable like a
Continental or Lycoming on that, and forget about a car engine. Up here
if
your engine quits it will take you a week to walk to where someone could
give you some help!"
I am putting the Corvair conversion on anyway!
Rob
Anchorage, Alaska
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, Alaska
907-230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
IM Windows Live Messenger: foto@alaska.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general
Shad, group,
I really feel for you guys after all the trouble, toils, and
inconveniences
that engine has caused you. Corvairs seems to be great when they
are running well but the trend seems to be that the trade off in cost
savings using an auto engine don't equate with giving owners
warm fuzzies regarding long term reliability. Even guys who are
following
William Wynne's methods and Wynne himself are having
troubles from time to time.
I flew behind a Great Planes 1835cc VW aero kit engine for the past 4.5
years and despite the engine never having missed a beat I just
felt very uncomfortable with an engine turning 3200 rpm in cruise. I
had
numerous little issues with that engine but all were detected
and resolved before they became dangerous.
The beauty of homebuilding is that you can put whatever engine you want
in
your Pietenpol and this post in no way is meant to sound
elitist or arrogant for all the amazingly knowledgeable auto engine guys
out
there like William Wynne and you guys who know Corvairs
inside and out but I just can't help feel uncomfortable in thinking
about
flying behind one.
I think about John Dilatush from Colorado who built a gorgeous Pietenpol
with a turbo Subaru that ran like a Swiss watch and put out
the power he needed at his high field elevations only to have the engine
die
on him returning from Wisconsin because of some kind of
ECU or electronic issue with the engine controls. Busted up a wing but
walked away healthy. Could have killed him.
Mike C.
Message 7
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Dan,
Apparently I missed earlier discussion of your tailwheel. Would you
please tell me what you have (off line)?
Allan Macklem
AWMacklem@cox.net
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
Rob, I do not have an axe to grind on either side of this argument, I do
take issue with people who, like your cocky "EAA tech advisor/A&P", FORCES
their
opinion on other individuals. Maybe you should forward him this URL to open
his naive myopic eyes: _http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html_
(http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html) on certified engine bloopers and blu
nders.
I guess his version of "Experimental Aviation" is a dazzling choice of
accent stripe colors and interior fabrics?
Regards, Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
======
In a message dated 8/25/2008 11:38:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
foto@alaska.net writes:
Group,
Just for the record one of the EAA technical advisors that is an A&P told
me, =9CIf you are going to hang anything automotive on that airplane
then I am
not going to waste my time with you. That=99s for those guys in the L
ower 48 who
can land in a corn field or out on a farm road when their engine quits
=94and it
will quit=94so I recommend you put something reliable like a Continen
tal or
Lycoming on that, and forget about a car engine. Up here if your engine qui
ts
it will take you a week to walk to where someone could give you some help!
=9D
I am putting the Corvair conversion on anyway!
Rob
Anchorage, Alaska
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, Alaska
907-230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
IM Windows Live Messenger: foto@alaska.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general
Shad, group,
I really feel for you guys after all the trouble, toils, and inconveniences
that engine has caused you. Corvairs seems to be great when they
are running well but the trend seems to be that the trade off in cost
savings using an auto engine don't equate with giving owners
warm fuzzies regarding long term reliability. Even guys who are following
William Wynne's methods and Wynne himself are having
troubles from time to time.
I flew behind a Great Planes 1835cc VW aero kit engine for the past 4.5
years and despite the engine never having missed a beat I just
felt very uncomfortable with an engine turning 3200 rpm in cruise. I had
numerous little issues with that engine but all were detected
and resolved before they became dangerous.
The beauty of homebuilding is that you can put whatever engine you want in
your Pietenpol and this post in no way is meant to sound
elitist or arrogant for all the amazingly knowledgeable auto engine guys ou
t
there like William Wynne and you guys who know Corvairs
inside and out but I just can't help feel uncomfortable in thinking about
flying behind one.
I think about John Dilatush from Colorado who built a gorgeous Pietenpol
with a turbo Subaru that ran like a Swiss watch and put out
the power he needed at his high field elevations only to have the engine di
e
on him returning from Wisconsin because of some kind of
ECU or electronic issue with the engine controls. Busted up a wing but
walked away healthy. Could have killed him.
Mike C.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your trave
l
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 9
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| Subject: | auto engines in general |
I couldn't agree with Chrissi more about her post about that myopic
technical counselor and his statement about auto engines.
Just as many errors can be made building up an aircraft engine as an
auto engine and just as many pilots will have trouble
running out of fuel or flying into weather they can't handle. I
wouldn't rubber stamp or paint with such a wide brush as to rule
out anything for a homebuilt or any option 'just like that'. That's
what draws me to a plans-built airplane: the freedom of flexibility
and choice in almost everything you choose or fabricate. There are
guys like Ken Perkins and Lowell Frank who have flown
hundreds if not thousands of hours behind very nicely built Model A Ford
/Funk automotive engines with good reliability and
performance....but they really, really know what they are doing. There
was an old saying of an engineer I used to work with
when things would break or not work he would look at me with all the
seriousness and sarcasm he could muster: "inanimate objects
are out to get me."
Mike C.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: auto engines in general |
Well said Mike,
I was amused coming into this group in that here we have one of the original
pioneer homebuilts with what for the original choice of engines? The Model
A? It does not get much more fundamentally alternative or automotive than that.
....or simpler. That is what I admire about the "certified solution";
simplicity. They've done everything possible with an aircraft engine to be sure
that by default, it runs. Hard to beat that or argue with it anyway. I did not
say anything about cheap, cost effective or reliable.
It always seems that when your alternative engine has a fault that it fully
meets the expectations of your certified friends and ramp quarterbacks, yet
when their certified engine swallows a valve, breaks a crank, or throws an
entire cylinder assembly out through the side of the cowling (do not laugh this
has happened) that this is perfectly ok and normal because it is a known
modality of failure.
I guess there is satisfaction and comfort in knowing your failure modes?
So now somebody tell me who is ahead here, the guy walking out of the
Alaskan wilderness because he has discovered a new way his alternative engine
can
stop running or the other guy walking out of the Alaskan wilderness thankful
only his certified crankshaft broke?
Regards, Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
==============================
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a
nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and
attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who
said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned
the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that
the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's
or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and
if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and
materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made
my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few
items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
Message 12
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| Subject: | side by each piet |
Wow....with 15 yrs of collecting Pietenpol memorabilia and every BPANewslet
ter ever published, I never saw mention of plans from BHP for a "side by ea
ch" design. The Pietenpol family doesn't even list them. That must be a rea
lly rare and valuable prototype that should be preserved in a museum.
-
On a more serious note; with the herd thundering to replace original (awful
, dangerous and out-dated) airfoil with newer and better ones, how is the d
ecalage being determined? Seems to me that just bolting the new one up woul
d mean a great deal more positive incidence unless the cabanes were altered
. WWLD? (What Would Lowell Do).
-
Larry W.=0A=0A=0A
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
Group, machines break, thats what they do.- Thats why we do preflight ins
pections, 50hr, 100hr and so on.- I work on airliners, with 100's of thou
sands of dollars in one little box.- We change engines almost every night
,and only a fleet of 200 airplanes. Believe it or not they ARE aircraft tur
bine engines.- I guess maybe some might think people flying chevys, fords
, suburu and so on are loose cannons.- We have never had our corvair quit
, even when the crank broke it would still run.- (Don't fly down on the d
eck if you that concerned, have plenty of-altitude to glide to a safe lan
ding)- Never had any trouble starting it up.- Working out the grimlins
is part of building anything, from a streetrod to a motercycle, and occasio
nally you do get a bad part, Hell I remember getting 2 bad vacume pumps for
a 172 I was working on years ago, that was a nightmare to trouble shoot, b
ut luckly for the customer the vender he bought them from verified the
factory defect.-Even the million dollar airliner parts come "bad from st
ock", once in a while.-As for getting stranded in the back country or wil
derness of Alaska, I personally would not put myself in a situation where a
smooth, safe forced landing would be a deadly situation, due to starvation
freezing etc.- Don't get to big for your britches, no matter what you fl
y.- As soon as you start thinking your engine is unstopable, you are aski
ng for trouble.- OK off my soapbox now, but in short yes you will probabl
y have to tinker with an auto conversion more than a Cont, Lyc, but as long
as you do regular, thorough inspections, the same safety margin can be mai
ntained.
-
My 2 1/2 cents
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolThanks Mike,
You always put things into chrystal clear perspective.
Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard".
I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices, and
Morals.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed
a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and
attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who
said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and
if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices
and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few
items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
Message 15
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| Subject: | auto engines in general |
A buddy of mine with an Aeronca Chief was recently flying to a fly in.....
had his A-65 split the case in the wrong direction all by itself. I think it
was 300 hours SMOH.... I heard the suspected failer was that a con rod
broke, and in the few seconds it took to shutdown was enough for it to go
thru the case. Parts and oil everywhere! He was lucky to be going past an
airfield at the time, and put it down on the #'s. (just)
If it's mechanical it can break...... Just some things break sooner, or
more often than others...... I kind of think it is best to use the right
tool for the right job. I want to fly, so I will use an aircraft
engine..... Just my 2 cents
Cheers!
140 Dave...... soon to be Pietenpol Dave..... followed by WW1 fighter
Dave!!!!!!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
CozyGirrrl@aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 12:30 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: auto engines in general
Well said Mike,
I was amused coming into this group in that here we have one of the
original pioneer homebuilts with what for the original choice of engines?
The Model A? It does not get much more fundamentally alternative or
automotive than that.
....or simpler. That is what I admire about the "certified solution";
simplicity. They've done everything possible with an aircraft engine to be
sure that by default, it runs. Hard to beat that or argue with it anyway. I
did not say anything about cheap, cost effective or reliable.
It always seems that when your alternative engine has a fault that it
fully meets the expectations of your certified friends and ramp
quarterbacks, yet when their certified engine swallows a valve, breaks a
crank, or throws an entire cylinder assembly out through the side of the
cowling (do not laugh this has happened) that this is perfectly ok and
normal because it is a known modality of failure.
I guess there is satisfaction and comfort in knowing your failure modes?
So now somebody tell me who is ahead here, the guy walking out of the
Alaskan wilderness because he has discovered a new way his alternative
engine can stop running or the other guy walking out of the Alaskan
wilderness thankful only his certified crankshaft broke?
Regards, Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
==============================
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
Message 16
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| Subject: | auto engines in general |
The right tool for a Pietenpol is a Ford.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Abramson
Sent: August 25, 2008 4:51 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: auto engines in general
A buddy of mine with an Aeronca Chief was recently flying to a fly in.....
had his A-65 split the case in the wrong direction all by itself. I think it
was 300 hours SMOH.... I heard the suspected failer was that a con rod
broke, and in the few seconds it took to shutdown was enough for it to go
thru the case. Parts and oil everywhere! He was lucky to be going past an
airfield at the time, and put it down on the #'s. (just)
If it's mechanical it can break...... Just some things break sooner, or
more often than others...... I kind of think it is best to use the right
tool for the right job. I want to fly, so I will use an aircraft
engine..... Just my 2 cents
Cheers!
140 Dave...... soon to be Pietenpol Dave..... followed by WW1 fighter
Dave!!!!!!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
CozyGirrrl@aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 12:30 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: auto engines in general
Well said Mike,
I was amused coming into this group in that here we have one of the
original pioneer homebuilts with what for the original choice of engines?
The Model A? It does not get much more fundamentally alternative or
automotive than that.
....or simpler. That is what I admire about the "certified solution";
simplicity. They've done everything possible with an aircraft engine to be
sure that by default, it runs. Hard to beat that or argue with it anyway. I
did not say anything about cheap, cost effective or reliable.
It always seems that when your alternative engine has a fault that it
fully meets the expectations of your certified friends and ramp
quarterbacks, yet when their certified engine swallows a valve, breaks a
crank, or throws an entire cylinder assembly out through the side of the
cowling (do not laugh this has happened) that this is perfectly ok and
normal because it is a known modality of failure.
I guess there is satisfaction and comfort in knowing your failure modes?
So now somebody tell me who is ahead here, the guy walking out of the
Alaskan wilderness because he has discovered a new way his alternative
engine can stop running or the other guy walking out of the Alaskan
wilderness thankful only his certified crankshaft broke?
Regards, Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
==============================
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
here.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolMike:
I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and back
about 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on the
back 40, milled it and started building. About six months from tree to
finished flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I hear
tell it is still out there flying.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed
a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and
attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who
said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and
if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices
and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few
items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | side by each piet |
The airfoil is kind of a conversation piece=2C but it seems that a Piet wit
h a Cub wing would be a much better flying machine. But with continentals
=2C a new wing=2C modern prop etc at what point is it still a piet?
npol-List: side by each pietTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Wow....with 15 yrs of collecting Pietenpol memorabilia and every BPANewslet
ter ever published=2C I never saw mention of plans from BHP for a "side by
each" design. The Pietenpol family doesn't even list them. That must be a r
eally rare and valuable prototype that should be preserved in a museum.
On a more serious note=3B with the herd thundering to replace original (awf
ul=2C dangerous and out-dated) airfoil with newer and better ones=2C how is
the decalage being determined? Seems to me that just bolting the new one u
p would mean a great deal more positive incidence unless the cabanes were a
ltered. WWLD? (What Would Lowell Do).
Larry W.
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
_________________________________________________________________
Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share.
http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_P
hoto_Gallery_082008
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
I second Crissi on this. You are a technical counselor for the
*Experimental* Aircraft Association, and you do not want some to use an
experimental engine solely because of your narrow minded, prejudicial point
of view? If this gentleman is your Tech Counselor on your project, you may
want to seek out a new one.
Ryan
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, <CozyGirrrl@aol.com> wrote:
> Rob, I do not have an axe to grind on either side of this argument, I do
> take issue with people who, like your cocky "EAA tech advisor/A&P", FORCES
> their opinion on other individuals. Maybe you should forward him this URL to
> open his naive myopic eyes: http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html on
> certified engine bloopers and blunders.
> I guess his version of "Experimental Aviation" is a dazzling choice of
> accent stripe colors and interior fabrics?
>
> Regards, Chrissi
>
> CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
> www.CozyGirrrl.com
> Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
> Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
> ==============================
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
He should have taken a pic of the tree and then the airplane for a before a
nd after. That would be awesome. On one hand I don't want a ride in it on
the other hand that is the true Pietenpol spirit. Bernard himself would h
ave been more ballsy that me. He would have flown it.
Jonathan
From: silvius@gwi.netTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol
-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolDate: Mon=2C 25 Aug
2008 17:12:38 -0500
Mike:
I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and back abo
ut 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on the back 40
=2C milled it and started building. About six months from tree to finished
flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I hear tell it is st
ill out there flying.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy=2C Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Monday=2C August 25=2C 2008 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a ni
ce Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined
and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said
that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at
Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survive
d with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire
airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine th
at you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for year
s=2C given many rides=2C and gone cross country quite often. That was hi
s choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's
choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe air
plane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood=2C steel=2C welding pr
actices=2C and other fabrication methods that are known=2C tried=2C and tru
e. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck
to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't w
ant to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I too
k artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulk
heads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability=2C made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Cha
mp....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank
instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________________________
Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with
Windows=AE.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolAnd then theres this
fellow in Brazil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1dMyonbPY0
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGmlH64hBLw
4 months from start to finish.
he skipped the plans part, not a sheet of paper was used, made it up in
his own head as he went along.
powered by a 73 hp 1978 Ford Corcel engine
note the "instrument panel"
The fisherman from Belize has nothing on this guy.
Michael
Message 22
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| Subject: | Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Mike has morals? Since when?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Finally an honest to goodness certified Commercial Pilot today. Passed
the
checkride this afternoon, only 38 ' =BD years after I got my Private
license.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Thanks Mike,
You always put things into chrystal clear perspective.
Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard".
I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices, and
Morals.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, <mailto:Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov> Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a
nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and
attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who
said
that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned
the
impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that
the
entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's
or
Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often.
That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and
if
you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards
of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't
want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and
materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic
license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made
my
landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few
items
just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolMichael ,
Sounds like "Poplar Piet"
Fellow who had a picture of himself next to a poplar tree then next to
the plane he made out of it.
But alas, think he crashed it.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Silvius
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Mike:
I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and
back about 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on
the back 40, milled it and started building. About six months from tree
to finished flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I
hear tell it is still out there flying.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I
noticed a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants
and attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend
who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice
and if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices
and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a
few items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
Nah, shouldn't be too hard on the Tech Councelor, In days past he could
have supported a similar engine, and could have lost someone in a crash.
You never know. Can't judge a guys opinion on things that you are not
aware of.
A tech is entitled to his opinions too!
My mentor of many years, and was Desgner and AP for Leo Laudenschleger
<sp> Won't fly in a metal airplane,,,only fabric,,,Go figure.
But for me, his opinion goes,,,for everything.
Ain't Life Grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in
general
I second Crissi on this. You are a technical counselor for the
*Experimental* Aircraft Association, and you do not want some to use an
experimental engine solely because of your narrow minded, prejudicial
point of view? If this gentleman is your Tech Counselor on your project,
you may want to seek out a new one.
Ryan
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, <CozyGirrrl@aol.com> wrote:
Rob, I do not have an axe to grind on either side of this argument,
I do take issue with people who, like your cocky "EAA tech advisor/A&P",
FORCES their opinion on other individuals. Maybe you should forward him
this URL to open his naive myopic eyes:
http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html on certified engine bloopers and
blunders.
I guess his version of "Experimental Aviation" is a dazzling choice
of accent stripe colors and interior fabrics?
Regards, Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
=====
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolGood one.
Morals are better than lessals. :^)
do not archive
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Mike has morals? Since when?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Finally an honest to goodness certified Commercial Pilot today.
Passed the checkride this afternoon, only 38 - =BD years after I got my
Private license.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:36 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Thanks Mike,
You always put things into chrystal clear perspective.
Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard".
I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices,
and Morals.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I
noticed a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants
and attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend
who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice
and if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices
and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a
few items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolCONGRATS!!- Jim Lagowski
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Mike has morals? Since when?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Finally an honest to goodness certified Commercial Pilot today.
Passed the checkride this afternoon, only 38 - =BD years after I got my
Private license.
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From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:36 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Thanks Mike,
You always put things into chrystal clear perspective.
Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard".
I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices,
and Morals.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I
noticed a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants
and attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend
who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice
and if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices
and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a
few items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8/24/2008 12:15 PM
Message 27
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