---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/27/08: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:16 AM - Any Australians on this list? (charles loomis) 2. 01:25 AM - Re: Any Australians on this list? (Peter W Johnson) 3. 08:18 AM - steering horn (skellytown flyer) 4. 08:52 AM - Re: Steering horn (TOM STINEMETZE) 5. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: Steering horn (CozyGirrrl@aol.com) 6. 09:46 AM - Re: steering horn (Skip Gadd) 7. 09:54 AM - Pietenpol joke (Michael Perez) 8. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: Steering horn (TOM STINEMETZE) 9. 02:19 PM - Re: steering horn (skellytown flyer) 10. 02:54 PM - Re: Pietenpol joke (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 11. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: steering horn (H RULE) 12. 05:18 PM - Re: steering horn (H RULE) 13. 05:41 PM - Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) (donald lane) 14. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) (Jack Phillips) 15. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: steering horn (Skip Gadd) 16. 07:09 PM - Re: steering horn (Wizzard187@aol.com) 17. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) (Kirk Huizenga) 18. 08:15 PM - Re: Re: Steering horn (Gene Hubbard) 19. 08:29 PM - Re: steering horn (gcardinal) 20. 08:52 PM - Re: Re: From print to jig...how? (Allan Macklem) 21. 09:37 PM - Re: Re: From print to jig...how? (Allan Macklem) 22. 09:40 PM - Re: Weight and balance question (Allan Macklem) 23. 09:55 PM - Re: Re: From print to jig...how? (Ryan Mueller) 24. 10:42 PM - Re: Re: From print to jig...how? (johnwoods@westnet.com.au) 25. 10:45 PM - Rear seat install (Marc Davis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:26 AM PST US From: charles loomis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Any Australians on this list? And if so do you know if any Pietenpols will be at the Coffs Harbour Air Show? Or if there are any Piets in Northern NSW, or even NSW at all? Charley ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:31 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Any Australians on this list? Charley, There were a couple of Piet's in Noosa I believe. There are a few being built in QLD and WA. I finished mine in 2006. You are welcome to come and look if you are down in Vic. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Vic http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles loomis Sent: Wednesday, 27 August 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Any Australians on this list? And if so do you know if any Pietenpols will be at the Coffs Harbour Air Show? Or if there are any Piets in Northern NSW, or even NSW at all? Charley ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: steering horn From: "skellytown flyer" I( don't know how many are flying the GN-1 design that are on this list.maybe I can get some answers,the plans call for a separate steering horn for the tailwheel the way I see it.Mine has a set if extra cables attached to the rudder cables to pull the tailwheel horns but I also made a set of the horns the plans called for to be bolted to the bottom of the rudder to go to the tailwheel. What is the best way to go here-have the extra cables going through the fuselage fabric all the way back or use the horns on the rudder and a short set of cables? I expect that there are good and bad with either but I would appreciate some advice from anybody that has tried it.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0918#200918 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:45 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steering horn > What is the best way to go here-have the extra cables going through the fuselage fabric all the way back or use the horns on the rudder and a short set of cables? < I am ready to ask that same question. It appears that an extra control horn on the rudder would add extra weight just where you don't want it but, overall, an extra set of cables running all the way to the rudder bar would weigh more. Is there a way to attach the steering cables to the rudder cables about half way back (i.e. just aft or forward of the pulleys?) Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:49 AM PST US From: CozyGirrrl@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steering horn I have seen this done poorly on a KR-2 with Nicopress sleeves, if I were to do this though I would prefer to make a loop around an eye, add the Nicopress sleeve, run one leg to the rudder and one to the tail wheel. Run a new cable forward to the rudder pedals. The question I would have is what is the greatest angle allowable for two cable ends exiting from a Nicopress fitting? Seems to me there would be a lot of "working" of the fittings here caused by the tail wheel that would be better absorbed by the "idler bar" inside the fueselage? ...Chrissi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ============================== If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires we fill out a form you will not hear from us. Please do not make your spam problem ours. In a message dated 8/27/2008 10:54:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time, TOMS@mcpcity.com writes: > What is the best way to go here-have the extra cables going through the fuselage fabric all the way back or use the horns on the rudder and a short set of cables? < I am ready to ask that same question. It appears that an extra control horn on the rudder would add extra weight just where you don't want it but, overall, an extra set of cables running all the way to the rudder bar would weigh more. Is there a way to attach the steering cables to the rudder cables about half way back (i.e. just aft or forward of the pulleys?) Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:08 AM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: steering horn Felix the GN-1 I bought has the extra horn per plans. It seems to work fine. Tom is right there may be more weight aft. There is also more wood as you have to fill in the corner gusset with spruce to help out with the extra stress that horn puts on the rudder. This method is more simple though, and that is good. Skip > [Original Message] > From: skellytown flyer > To: > Date: 8/27/2008 11:22:13 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: steering horn > > > I( don't know how many are flying the GN-1 design that are on this list.maybe I can get some answers,the plans call for a separate steering horn for the tailwheel the way I see it.Mine has a set if extra cables attached to the rudder cables to pull the tailwheel horns but I also made a set of the horns the plans called for to be bolted to the bottom of the rudder to go to the tailwheel. What is the best way to go here-have the extra cables going through the fuselage fabric all the way back or use the horns on the rudder and a short set of cables? I expect that there are good and bad with either but I would appreciate some advice from anybody that has tried it.Raymond > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0918#200918 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:08 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol joke A good friend of mine just dropped this on me. I thought it was funny.- W hat happens to a Pietenpol that sits too long? - - It gathers piet moss!- BADUM-PA! Thank you! I'll be here all night! ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:49 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steering horn >Seems to me there would be a lot of "working" of the fittings here caused by the tail wheel that would be better absorbed by the "idler bar" inside the fueselage? ...Chrissi> Hmmm. Obviously some room for cogitatin' here. I don't like the idea of two cables running back from the rudder bar. Maybe a single, larger, cable running back to a splitter fitting or a loop which in turn attaches to two separate cables running back to the rudder and steering assembly through some shimmy damper springs. That tail wheel is going to be "working" something either way and I really don't like the idea of it working the rudder directly, even with shimmy damper springs in between. Any way you look at it though, any cable loops should have grommets or shackles to keep the rubbing from being cable to cable. Tom S. ____ | ____ \8/ / \ BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:STINEMETZE, TOM TEL;WORK:620-245-2548 ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS@MCPCITY.COM N:STINEMETZE;TOM TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN. END:VCARD BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:STINEMETZE, TOM TEL;WORK:620-245-2548 ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS@MCPCITY.COM N:STINEMETZE;TOM TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN. END:VCARD ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steering horn From: "skellytown flyer" Skip-is your airplane flying now? I would sure like to hear from GN-1 flyers as to how the plane is doing .Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0999#200999 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:40 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol joke "You re going straight to hell for that one"! (_Adrian Cronauer_ (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000245/) :Good Morning Vietnam) Robin Williams voice of Pvt Gomer Pyle USMC, Jim Nabors In a message dated 8/27/2008 12:54:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, speedbrake@sbcglobal.net writes: A good friend of mine just dropped this on me. I thought it was funny. What happens to a Pietenpol that sits too long? It gathers piet moss! BADUM-PA! Thank you! I'll be here all night! ======== (mip://04d63948/3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List") ======== (mip://04d63948/3D"http://forums.matronics.com") ======== (mip://04d63948/3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution") ======== **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:29 PM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steering horn My GN-1 is doing just fine since I found out the gap on the plugs was too w ide.I've had really great flights with her except the other night after wor k was a bit too cool.I should have worn a heavier coat.It will soon be time to drain the run in oil and put regular oil into her.It should be interest ing to see what changes occur if any.Having a wonderful time of it up here in Ottawa Canada.=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: skellytown flyer =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday , August 27, 2008 5:18:54 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steering horn et>=0A=0ASkip-is your airplane flying now? I would sure like to hear from G N-1 flyers as to how the plane is doing .Raymond=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this to pic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0999# =========================0A ============ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:05 PM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steering horn I originally had mine going from- the horn on the wheel to a horn on the rudder with springs but I figured there was too much pressure on the rudder so I took it off.To steer I just use rudder and brakes and it works just f ine.Better braking and turning counter clockwise than clockwise though.I th ink it may have something to do with the gyro scopic progression from the p rop.That's my two cents worth.-=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0A From: skellytown flyer =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:17:36 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: =0A=0AI( don't know how many are flying the GN-1 design tha t are on this list.maybe I can get some answers,the plans call for a separa te steering horn for the tailwheel the way I see it.Mine has a set if extra cables attached to the rudder cables to pull the tailwheel horns but I als o made a set of the horns the plans called for to be bolted to the bottom o f the rudder to go to the tailwheel. What is the best way to go here-have t he extra cables going through the fuselage fabric all the way back or use t he horns on the rudder and a short set of cables? I expect that there are g ood and bad with either but I would appreciate some advice from anybody tha t has tried it.Raymond=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp ://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0918#200918=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List ====== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:05 PM PST US From: "donald lane" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) Congratulations Jack, When you get the CFI, I would like to be your student, for the taildragger endorsement, especially if it would be in your Piet. Is that legal? Don Lane ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:49 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) Yep. Transition training is legal in Experimental aircraft. Primary instruction is not (at least, that's my understanding). That's my primary purpose in getting the CFI - tailwheel endorsements and transition training. I might have to add brakes in the front seat of my Piet if I'm going to use it for transition training. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of donald lane Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) Congratulations Jack, When you get the CFI, I would like to be your student, for the taildragger endorsement, especially if it would be in your Piet. Is that legal? Don Lane ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:59 PM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: steering horn Raymond, Yes the Piet, I mean GN-1 is flying. This past weekend we flew from WV to Merrys Pymatunning on the OH/PA border. It was 3 hours each way. Went with a Colt, Chief and Cub. The Piet and Cub fly about the same in cruise, the Chief a little faster and the Colt went ahead and checked out the restaurant at the fuel stop. First actual camp out in the aircamper, great trip. Skip > [Original Message] > From: skellytown flyer > To: > Date: 8/27/2008 5:23:09 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steering horn > > > Skip-is your airplane flying now? I would sure like to hear from GN-1 flyers as to how the plane is doing .Raymond > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0999#200999 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:28 PM PST US From: Wizzard187@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steering horn Pieter's I have been making taxi test and last night ended in the government set=aside acres. What weight do you guys on the tail wheel when in the cockpit. Also I have 19 in motorcycle wheels with modified cleveland brakes and they are about like a stick in a soapbox car. When taxing down the run way it seems to take a long time for my correction to kick in. My springs are pretty tight but had them loose when i got into the tall (6 ft) grass. Thanks. Ken Conrad in Iowa with great weather **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:24 PM PST US From: Kirk Huizenga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) Why not become a Sport-Pilot CFI (CFI-SP) - at least as a start? Don't even need the commercial license or an instrument rating. The Piet fits (or at least should fit) the LSA category also. Only need 150 hours of flight time (with some sub category times) plus the normal CFI tests and sign-offs. Check out FAR 61.4xx. The ability to teach tailwheel needs nothing more than the endorsement you already have and the CFI-SP. I think this is all accurate, but could be wrong Cheers Kirk On Aug 27, 2008, at 8:26 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > Yep. Transition training is legal in Experimental aircraft. > Primary instruction is not (at least, that=92s my understanding). > That=92s my primary purpose in getting the CFI ' tailwheel > endorsements and transition training. I might have to add brakes in > the front seat of my Piet if I=92m going to use it for transition > training. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of donald lane > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:43 PM > To: piet list matronics > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) > > Congratulations Jack, > When you get the CFI, I would like to be your student, for the > taildragger endorsement, especially if it would be in your Piet. Is > that legal? > Don Lane > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:48 PM PST US From: Gene Hubbard Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steering horn Think about the torque on the rudder spar. On 421GN, I ran the tailwheel cables all the way from the rudder bar, but joining them somewhere aft with a nicopress should also work. One problem is that with a "Y" connection, there will be more side-to-side cable motion than with strictly fore-and-aft motion. Gene Hubbard NX421GN San Diego TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > > What is the best way to go here-have the extra cables going through > the fuselage fabric all the way back or use the horns on the rudder > and a short set of cables? < > > I am ready to ask that same question. It appears that an extra > control horn on the rudder would add extra weight just where you don't > want it but, overall, an extra set of cables running all the way to > the rudder bar would weigh more. Is there a way to attach the > steering cables to the rudder cables about half way back (i.e. just > aft or forward of the pulleys?) > > Tom Stinemetze > McPherson, KS > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:58 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steering horn Ken, On NX18235 with me in the cockpit (190#) it brings the aircraft weight to 811#. The weight on the tailwheel is 116#. The mains are 19" spoked wheels and the axle is positioned 20" aft of the firewall. It is equipped with a tailskid and no brakes. Ground handling is generally docile. The most trouble I have is when I try to taxi in a crosswind or downwind when the wind gets above 12mph. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Wizzard187@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steering horn Pieter's I have been making taxi test and last night ended in the government set=aside acres. What weight do you guys on the tail wheel when in the cockpit. Also I have 19 in motorcycle wheels with modified cleveland brakes and they are about like a stick in a soapbox car. When taxing down the run way it seems to take a long time for my correction to kick in. My springs are pretty tight but had them loose when i got into the tall (6 ft) grass. Thanks. Ken Conrad in Iowa with great weather ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:32 PM PST US From: "Allan Macklem" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: From print to jig...how? Lowell, Two years ago at Brodhead I listened to your conversation regarding the superiority of the GA30U-612 airfoil over BP's airfoil. In Tim Willis' posting I read about the GA3OU 613.5 airfoil. If I am understanding the thread of conversation correctly the 612 airfoil seems to be preferred over the 613.5 for aircraft with 100+ hp. I'm intending to use a WW Corvair conversion for my Piet. Who should I contact to get a print, coordinates, and any notes relating to the GA30U-612 airfoil? Please confirm my understanding in selecting the 612 airfoil. Regards, Allan Macklem ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:59 PM PST US From: "Allan Macklem" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: From print to jig...how? Roman, Do you have the print for the GA3OU 612 airfoil?\ Allan ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:00 PM PST US From: "Allan Macklem" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance question Walt, Please send me your weight/balance Excel program. Thanks, Allan ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:25 PM PST US From: "Ryan Mueller" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: From print to jig...how? Allan, Just a reminder, the Pietenpol list archive is searchable, at: http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html Pick Pietenpol from the drop down list, and then type in your search terms. There are instructions on that page as well. The archive is a good source for answers to all the questions that have been asked previously, such as your question about the Riblett print. A search for "Roman & Riblett" gets you what you are looking for in the first result. Hope that helps, Ryan On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Allan Macklem wrote: > > Roman, > > Do you have the print for the GA3OU 612 airfoil?\ > > Allan ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:33 PM PST US From: johnwoods@westnet.com.au Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: From print to jig...how? Allan, I posted this spreadsheet a while ago=2E Hope it helps=2E JohnW > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: awmacklem@cox=2Enet >To: pietenpol-list@matronics=2Ecom >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: From print to jig=2E=2E=2Ehow=3F >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:52:11 -0500 > > >> >>Lowell, >> >>Two years ago at Brodhead I listened to your conversation regarding >the >>superiority of the GA30U-612 airfoil over BP's airfoil=2E In Tim >Willis' >>posting I read about the GA3OU 613=2E5 airfoil=2E >> >>If I am understanding the thread of conversation correctly the 612 >airfoil >>seems to be preferred over the 613=2E5 for aircraft with 100+ hp=2E I' m > >>intending to use a WW Corvair conversion for my Piet=2E >> >>Who should I contact to get a print, coordinates, and any notes >relating to >>the GA30U-612 airfoil=3F >> >>Please confirm my understanding in selecting the 612 airfoil=2E >> >>Regards, >> >>Allan Macklem >> >> >>=5F-======================= =========== >>=5F-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - >>=5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse >>=5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, >>=5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >>=5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: >>=5F-= --> http://www=2Ematronics=2Ecom/Navigator=3FPietenpol-List >>=5F-======================= =========== >>=5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>=5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! >>=5F-= --> http://forums=2Ematronics=2Ecom >>=5F-======================= =========== >>=5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - >>=5F-= Thank you for your generous support! >>=5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin=2E >>=5F-= --> http://www=2Ematronics=2Ecom/contribution >>=5F-======================= =========== >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:42 PM PST US From: Marc Davis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rear seat install Campers Are you glueing in the rear seat botom and back=2C or making them removable for access to the tail cone? Thanks Marc _________________________________________________________________ Be the filmmaker you always wanted to be=97learn how to burn a DVD with Win dows=AE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.