---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/03/08: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:03 AM - Re: extra power ? (charles loomis) 2. 05:18 AM - Re: extra power ? (Jonathan Ragle) 3. 05:52 AM - Kansas Piets (skellytown flyer) 4. 06:12 AM - Re: Kansas Piets (TOM STINEMETZE) 5. 07:02 AM - Re: extra power ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 6. 12:15 PM - Lights (outofthebox50@yahoo.com) 7. 01:06 PM - Re: extra power ? (Jonathan Ragle) 8. 01:44 PM - Re: Lights (Bill Church) 9. 03:48 PM - Re: Lights (Jack Phillips) 10. 04:32 PM - Re: Lights (Jim Ash) 11. 04:46 PM - Re: Lights (Jack Phillips) 12. 05:18 PM - Re: Lights (outofthebox50@yahoo.com) 13. 05:19 PM - Re: Lights (Jim Ash) 14. 05:38 PM - Re: Lights (Jim Ash) 15. 06:45 PM - Re: Lights (outofthebox50@yahoo.com) 16. 07:01 PM - Re: Lights (Jim Ash) 17. 07:36 PM - Re: Re: Lights (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:58 AM PST US From: charles loomis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: extra power ? So, my idea of beefing up the fuselage a little at the engine mounts and mounting a Wasp Jr on the front is a bad Idea? Dang! I was looking at 3000 ft a minute climb fully loaded, but on the down side, if I had an engine failure, the glide path would be slightly worse than a Brick. Engine torque could be an issue as well, but could prolly be cured with a rudder trim tab(about 10 square feet should do.) Hmm, while I'm at it I better beef up the landing gear and add a bit larger fuel tank, what if I fully glass both wings, a set of wet wings should keep me in the air for a nice cross county tour. Charley --- On Wed, 9/3/08, walt wrote: > From: walt > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: extra power ? > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 8:10 AM > Jonathan, > If you build to the plans, an A-65 will take you anywhere > you want to go. > Did you see my "youtube" where I took me (210#) > and a friend (190#) up with a 65hp? > Not a problem. > Build light, and you will be good to go. > My runway is 2550ft. > > PS What's a GF? > > > walt evans > NX140DL > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jonathan Ragle > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:07 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ? > > > Mike, > > No problem whatsoever one up, but I would love to be able > to take my GF up with me and not worry to much about shorter > fields. No problem with 65HP for fun factor, just safety. > > Jonathan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ? > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:46:22 -0500 > From: Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > Jonathan, > > Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are > potentially going in halves with your Dad on isn't > sufficient power for you ? You mention > that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why > not just get current, get your tailwheel endorsement and > 'fly' for a while as you're deciding > on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm > just asking because it seems there has been a renewed > interest in the Piet by a number > of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without > modifying it a whole bunch and installing bigger engines. > (nothing wrong with that, just > making an observation) > > Mike C. > > > > > st" > target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get thousands of games on your PC, your > mobiT/go/108588800/direct/01/' > target='_new'>Game with Windows ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:00 AM PST US From: Jonathan Ragle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ? Walt=2C I'm just going off of what the fellow that is selling me the bird says=2C t hat it is not a very good airplane 2 up. Send me a link to the vid! I'm a bout 200lbs but I'm not normaly quite this "healthy". Just that I quit smo king several months ago and the munchies have been killing me. And a GF is something that grows to roughly 145lbs after you have lived wit h it for to long. Jonathan Pietenpol-List: extra power ?To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Jonathan=2C If you build to the plans=2C an A-65 will take you anywhere you want to go. Did you see my "youtube" where I took me (210#) and a friend (190#) up with a 65hp? Not a problem. Build light=2C and you will be good to go. My runway is 2550ft. PS What's a GF? walt evansNX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Ragle Sent: Tuesday=2C September 02=2C 2008 5:07 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ? Mike=2C No problem whatsoever one up=2C but I would love to be able to take my GF up with me and not worry to much about shorter fields. No problem w ith 65HP for fun factor=2C just safety. Jonathan Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?Date: Tue=2C 2 Sep 2008 11:46:22 -050 0From: Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.govTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Jonathan=2C Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are potentially going in h alves with your Dad on isn't sufficient power for you ? You mention that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why not just get current=2C ge t your tailwheel endorsement and 'fly' for a while as you're deciding on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm just asking because it seems there has been a renewed interest in the Piet by a number of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without modifying it a whole bunch and installing bigger engines. (nothing wrong with that=2C just making an observation) Mike C. st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobiT/go/108588800/direct/01/' ta rget='_new'>Game with Windows href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:54 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Kansas Piets From: "skellytown flyer" Are there any of you guys in the central Kansas area that have a flying or project Piet that might be willing to let me look it over if I get a chance next week or the week after? I will most likely be working around the Great Bend, Bushton area next week and supposed to got to Tescot the following week if it goes to schedule.I may be putting in so many hours I won't even be able to get away but never know till the time comes. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2294#202294 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:02 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Kansas Piets Raymond: Mine's not flying by a long shot but you're welcome to come by, sit in it, and make airplane noises if you want to. I'm in McPherson, KS which is around 60 miles from Great Bend. e-mail me off-line at toms@mcpcity.com during the day or call 620-241-6460 in the evening and we can work out any details. Tom Stinemetze >>> "skellytown flyer" 9/3/2008 7:52 AM >>> Are there any of you guys in the central Kansas area that have a flying or project Piet that might be willing to let me look it over if I get a chance next week or the week after? I will most likely be working around the Great Bend, Bushton area next week and supposed to got to Tescot the following week if it goes to schedule.I may be putting in so many hours I won't even be able to get away but never know till the time comes. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2294#202294 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ? From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Makes sense Jonathan if you'd like a little more power by having a 75 or 80 hp engine to give you a little extra climb with a passenger over some trees on warmer or hot days. One thing I have found is that you can have on 65hp Piet totally out climb another and sometimes the only difference is that one is a tired, low compression 65 and the other might have just been top overhauled and tight giving better power. Makes a difference. Mine doesn't climb like it did when the engine had 100 hours on it so I'm more selective about who I take and when---conditions--density altitude, amount of fuel on board, headwind for takeoff roll, trees/wires, runway length. It all adds up and like Don E. said you just try to make good judgment calls. A 60 F day can make your 65 hp engine feel like 80 compared to an 85 degree day. Other airplanes might not be affected as much but ours are. I contend that if you have to seriously modify a Piet to fit your weight or height that you might be just as well off to go buy a Champ which has about six more feet of wing and can lift a big boy and his big girlfriend as well....or wife... or mistress...or to be totally PC....his or her partner. Being a bit heavy myself I can (unfortunately...) take young, thin women for rides. One must know one's aircraft limitations. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet and didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in an open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome feeling to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of darkness! We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly it at night. Jeremy in Dallas Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:07 PM PST US From: Jonathan Ragle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ? Walt=2C Maybe my friend that is selling me the piet is just a bit spoiled for RV6s and 757s. Also here in TX we deal with a lot of heat and density altitude. Not sure how many mid day chapter meetings I could make it to on hot days . Dissappointing=2C but I guess OK since most of the old farts around here don't care about flying anymore just talking about flying and complaining about local politics. I do like visiting a lot of remote fields though (or at least I did years ago when I was current). And a GF similar to a tumor=2C often one will increase in size when you hav e lived with it for to long. In my case=2C my once small GF is now an inop erable 145Lbs. :( So where is that youtube video? My dad and I (180+200) are going to load up and firewall this thing on a lo ng runway and see what happens. On a hot day an 80HP Sonex or a 100HP Cess na makes for a sluggish ride. We are gonna see. I didn't mean to cause th is many people to jump but I guess if they are all saying that it's a legit imate 2 place bird then it's a good thing. Jonathan Pietenpol-List: extra power ?To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Jonathan=2C If you build to the plans=2C an A-65 will take you anywhere you want to go. Did you see my "youtube" where I took me (210#) and a friend (190#) up with a 65hp? Not a problem. Build light=2C and you will be good to go. My runway is 2550ft. PS What's a GF? walt evansNX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Ragle Sent: Tuesday=2C September 02=2C 2008 5:07 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ? Mike=2C No problem whatsoever one up=2C but I would love to be able to take my GF up with me and not worry to much about shorter fields. No problem w ith 65HP for fun factor=2C just safety. Jonathan Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?Date: Tue=2C 2 Sep 2008 11:46:22 -050 0From: Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.govTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Jonathan=2C Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are potentially going in h alves with your Dad on isn't sufficient power for you ? You mention that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why not just get current=2C ge t your tailwheel endorsement and 'fly' for a while as you're deciding on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm just asking because it seems there has been a renewed interest in the Piet by a number of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without modifying it a whole bunch and installing bigger engines. (nothing wrong with that=2C just making an observation) Mike C. st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobiT/go/108588800/direct/01/' ta rget='_new'>Game with Windows href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part of your life. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:02 PM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights Jeremy, Lights in Pietenpols are not too common, but it has been done, on occasion. It is a feature that adds weight for something that likely is rarely going to be used. There are two Piets that have lights that are based close to Brodhead and regularily attend the annual Piet gathering there. They were built together, and are practically identical. These planes are both powered by O-200, so they have a bit more power to carry the extra weight. Here's a link to one photo from WestcoastPiet that shows a light in the wing of N57TL (it's twin is N58TL). http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Tim%20Mickel/IMG_2151.JPG Bill C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:39 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of outofthebox50@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet and didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in an open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome feeling to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of darkness! We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly it at night. Jeremy in Dallas Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:00 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell, although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator requirement? Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Jack Phillips >Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a >method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a >battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of >weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >outofthebox50@yahoo.com >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet and >didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in an >open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome feeling >to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar >could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of >darkness! > >We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly it >at night. > >Jeremy in Dallas >Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:37 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could find are the following: 91.209 Aircraft Lights No person may: (a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... - (1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or (b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off. And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell, although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator requirement? Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Jack Phillips >Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a >method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a >battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of >weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >outofthebox50@yahoo.com >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet and >didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in an >open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome feeling >to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar >could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of >darkness! > >We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly it >at night. > >Jeremy in Dallas >Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com Actually, I'm in the process of manufacturing a line of LED aircraft lights. I have a mass of most confusing FARs and FAA info on getting lights certified, at work. I'll try to post the numbers tomorow. The rules for experimentals are based on the year finished. The cut off for the latest year group starts in like 1976 or so. Everything after that requires wing tip lights, one red one green, a tail light, and a belly light. The tail can strobe. The tail and belly can strobe, or the wing tips can both strobe. And that's if I can remember it right. Jeremy in Dallas Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could find are the following: 91.209 Aircraft Lights No person may: (a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... - (1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or (b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off. And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell, although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator requirement? Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Jack Phillips >Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a >method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a >battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of >weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >outofthebox50@yahoo.com >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet and >didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in an >open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome feeling >to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar >could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of >darkness! > >We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly it >at night. > >Jeremy in Dallas >Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:04 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights A few points I didn't mention: 1. This is one of those cases where what's legal and what's smart might be different things. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable living on just a battery, but that's me. I've driven a car home at night with no charging system and a near-dead battery; certainly don't wanna do it in a plane. 2. I've seen some pretty cool belly-mounted turbine generators. While I haven't researched this, I suspect there's a few out there that might weigh less than a big dry cell. 3. When I first bought the Cub, I was concerned with my mode-C requirements, so I dug into the FAR's for this stuff. IIRC, the term 'engine-driven' charging system was used in some verbage, so I was grandfathered in. It would kinda suck to install something in your Piet for lights, only to find out you were consequently on the hook for mode-C as a result. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Jack Phillips >Sent: Sep 3, 2008 7:45 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could >find are the following: > >91.209 Aircraft Lights > >No person may: > >(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... - > >(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or >(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system >unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision >lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, >because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to >turn the lights off. > >And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated >lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell, >although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was >anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could >this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator >requirement? > >Jim Ash > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Jack Phillips >>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights >> > >> >>The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a >>method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a >>battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of >>weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year. >> >>Jack Phillips >>NX899JP >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>outofthebox50@yahoo.com >>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights >> >> >>Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet >and >>didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in >an >>open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome >feeling >>to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar >>could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of >>darkness! >> >>We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly >it >>at night. >> >>Jeremy in Dallas >>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:31 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights Watch this one closely; once upon a time, I was involved in a discussion of the FAA-acceptable frequencies of light acceptable for nav lights. IIRC the red-orange spectrum from the old-style GaAs led's didn't cut it. Lots more dopants and spectrums have hit the market since then, so make sure you've got this one nailed down before you get too deep into it. Power output and light-intensity per viewing angle might also be issues. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com >Sent: Sep 3, 2008 8:19 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >Actually, I'm in the process of manufacturing a line of LED aircraft lights. I have a mass of most confusing FARs and FAA info on getting lights certified, at work. I'll try to post the numbers tomorow. The rules for experimentals are based on the year finished. The cut off for the latest year group starts in like 1976 or so. Everything after that requires wing tip lights, one red one green, a tail light, and a belly light. The tail can strobe. The tail and belly can strobe, or the wing tips can both strobe. And that's if I can remember it right. > >Jeremy in Dallas > >Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Jack Phillips" > >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:45:51 >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > > >I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could >find are the following: > >91.209 Aircraft Lights > >No person may: > >(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... - > >(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or >(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system >unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision >lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, >because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to >turn the lights off. > >And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated >lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell, >although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was >anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could >this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator >requirement? > >Jim Ash > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Jack Phillips >>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights >> > >> >>The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a >>method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a >>battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of >>weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year. >> >>Jack Phillips >>NX899JP >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>outofthebox50@yahoo.com >>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights >> >> >>Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet >and >>didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in >an >>open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome >feeling >>to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar >>could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of >>darkness! >> >>We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly >it >>at night. >> >>Jeremy in Dallas >>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com Getting within the color spectrum coordinates is doable. The intensity and angles is also doable, but will take some work. My goal is to be able to make a set of legal lights and keep the whole thing under 1 amp at 12V. I got into this because our rotax powered Rans has really low source voltage while running two old school wing tip lights, two whelen strobes, radio, transponder, and GPS. Dad was going to buy a set of led lights from AS&S to the tune of $1000. I teach electronics at night and decided to convert his lights to the tune of $40. Now it has progressed to: I've drawn the circuit boards in cad, can have them printed for $6 ea, $5 for the LEDs in each light, retired military electronics engineer to do the soldering, and I meet with the plastic molders next Friday to iron out the price of the housings. Then a load of paperwork, jump through a bunch of FAA hoops, and baby they said I have to fly these lights for 150 hrs! When it comes to me making money she always says ok! Jeremy in Dallas Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights Watch this one closely; once upon a time, I was involved in a discussion of the FAA-acceptable frequencies of light acceptable for nav lights. IIRC the red-orange spectrum from the old-style GaAs led's didn't cut it. Lots more dopants and spectrums have hit the market since then, so make sure you've got this one nailed down before you get too deep into it. Power output and light-intensity per viewing angle might also be issues. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com >Sent: Sep 3, 2008 8:19 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >Actually, I'm in the process of manufacturing a line of LED aircraft lights. I have a mass of most confusing FARs and FAA info on getting lights certified, at work. I'll try to post the numbers tomorow. The rules for experimentals are based on the year finished. The cut off for the latest year group starts in like 1976 or so. Everything after that requires wing tip lights, one red one green, a tail light, and a belly light. The tail can strobe. The tail and belly can strobe, or the wing tips can both strobe. And that's if I can remember it right. > >Jeremy in Dallas > >Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Jack Phillips" > >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:45:51 >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > > >I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could >find are the following: > >91.209 Aircraft Lights > >No person may: > >(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... - > >(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or >(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system >unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision >lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, >because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to >turn the lights off. > >And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated >lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell, >although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was >anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could >this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator >requirement? > >Jim Ash > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Jack Phillips >>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights >> > >> >>The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a >>method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a >>battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of >>weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year. >> >>Jack Phillips >>NX899JP >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>outofthebox50@yahoo.com >>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights >> >> >>Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet >and >>didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in >an >>open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome >feeling >>to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar >>could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of >>darkness! >> >>We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly >it >>at night. >> >>Jeremy in Dallas >>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:35 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights Cool - If you've gone this far are you going to run it throught some DO-160 stuff and get it certified, too? While we're here, it seems to me Jim Weir just wrote up an article in the last month or two of Kitplanes talking about a low-loss switching supply that might work for your purposes instead of just the basic current-limiting resistors. Didn't really read it yet. Chances are, that if you doodle with electronics it's a pretty simple design. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com >Sent: Sep 3, 2008 9:44 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > >Getting within the color spectrum coordinates is doable. The intensity and angles is also doable, but will take some work. My goal is to be able to make a set of legal lights and keep the whole thing under 1 amp at 12V. I got into this because our rotax powered Rans has really low source voltage while running two old school wing tip lights, two whelen strobes, radio, transponder, and GPS. Dad was going to buy a set of led lights from AS&S to the tune of $1000. I teach electronics at night and decided to convert his lights to the tune of $40. Now it has progressed to: I've drawn the circuit boards in cad, can have them printed for $6 ea, $5 for the LEDs in each light, retired military electronics engineer to do the soldering, and I meet with the plastic molders next Friday to iron out the price of the housings. Then a load of paperwork, jump through a bunch of FAA hoops, and baby they said I have to fly these lights for 150 hrs! When it comes to me making money she al ! > ways says ok! > > >Jeremy in Dallas > > >Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Ash > >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 20:38:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > > >Watch this one closely; once upon a time, I was involved in a discussion of the FAA-acceptable frequencies of light acceptable for nav lights. IIRC the red-orange spectrum from the old-style GaAs led's didn't cut it. Lots more dopants and spectrums have hit the market since then, so make sure you've got this one nailed down before you get too deep into it. Power output and light-intensity per viewing angle might also be issues. > >Jim > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com >>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 8:19 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights >> >> >>Actually, I'm in the process of manufacturing a line of LED aircraft lights. I have a mass of most confusing FARs and FAA info on getting lights certified, at work. I'll try to post the numbers tomorow. The rules for experimentals are based on the year finished. The cut off for the latest year group starts in like 1976 or so. Everything after that requires wing tip lights, one red one green, a tail light, and a belly light. The tail can strobe. The tail and belly can strobe, or the wing tips can both strobe. And that's if I can remember it right. >> >>Jeremy in Dallas >> >>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: "Jack Phillips" >> >>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:45:51 >>To: >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights >> >> >> >>I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could >>find are the following: >> >>91.209 Aircraft Lights >> >>No person may: >> >>(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... - >> >>(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or >>(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system >>unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision >>lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, >>because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to >>turn the lights off. >> >>And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated >>lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO. >> >>Jack Phillips >>NX899JP >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash >>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights >> >> >>Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell, >>although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was >>anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could >>this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator >>requirement? >> >>Jim Ash >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Jack Phillips >>>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM >>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights >>> >> >>> >>>The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a >>>method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a >>>battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of >>>weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year. >>> >>>Jack Phillips >>>NX899JP >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>>outofthebox50@yahoo.com >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM >>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights >>> >>> >>>Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet >>and >>>didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in >>an >>>open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome >>feeling >>>to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar >>>could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of >>>darkness! >>> >>>We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly >>it >>>at night. >>> >>>Jeremy in Dallas >>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:50 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights How about a wind generator? Not hooked to the engine and just enough to run lights. Blue Skies Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ash Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell, although the systems were few and far between. I don't think > there was anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, > and if so, could this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the > alternator/generator requirement? > > Jim Ash > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Jack Phillips < > >Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > > > > >The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a > >method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a > >battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of > >weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year. > > > >Jack Phillips > >NX899JP > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > >outofthebox50@yahoo.com > >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights > > > > > >Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet and > >didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in an > >open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome feeling > >to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar > >could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of > >darkness! > > > >We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly it > >at night. > > > >Jeremy in Dallas > >Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.