---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/28/08: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:57 AM - Small quantities of spruce for sale- Weldwood glue (HelsperSew@aol.com) 2. 06:05 AM - Re: Small quantities of spruce for sale- Weldwood glue (amsafetyc@aol.com) 3. 06:59 AM - Re: Propeller pics soon (HelsperSew@aol.com) 4. 07:48 AM - Re: Propeller pics soon (amsafetyc@aol.com) 5. 07:51 AM - Re: Propeller pics soon (amsafetyc@aol.com) 6. 08:39 AM - Re: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce (Rick Holland) 7. 08:47 AM - Re: Landing gear (Rick Holland) 8. 09:07 AM - Re: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce (shad bell) 9. 01:58 PM - front seat repairs (Oscar Zuniga) 10. 04:11 PM - Re: front seat repairs (HelsperSew@aol.com) 11. 04:17 PM - Re: front seat repairs (Gene Rambo) 12. 05:34 PM - Re: front seat repairs (Gary Boothe) 13. 06:18 PM - Re: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce () 14. 08:58 PM - Paper cutter arrived! (Ryan Mueller) 15. 09:15 PM - Re: Paper cutter arrived! (Ryan Mueller) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:23 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Small quantities of spruce for sale- Weldwood glue Steve, Aircraft Spruce has for sale their "bargain bag" of spruce. This consists of a pretty good size bundle, many pieces 5 ft long, of all kinds of spar and cap strip cut-offs that they can't sell. I actually bought two of these along the way and I am so glad I did. I think I paid about $12.00 each for them at the time. I would highly recommend it. I made many many parts from this. Of course you have to have a way to cut and plane them to the size you need. I think Wicks has a similar bundle for sale. I'm glad to hear that the Weldwood Plastic Resin glue held so well. It is the glue that I used to hold the laminations of my prop together. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Small quantities of spruce for sale- Weldwood glue From: amsafetyc@aol.com RGFuDQoNCkFueSBwaWNzIG9mIHRoZSBwcm9wIHlldD8gSSB3b3VsZCByZWFsbHkgZW5qb3kgc2Vl aW5nIHRoZW0gbWF5YmUgb3RoZXJzIHdvdWxkIGFsc28NCg0KSm9obg0KU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZl cml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3MgQmxhY2tCZXJyeQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0K RnJvbTogSGVsc3BlclNld0Bhb2wuY29tDQoNCkRhdGU6IFN1biwgMjggU2VwIDIwMDggMDg6NTY6 MTkgDQpUbzogPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBQaWV0ZW5w b2wtTGlzdDogU21hbGwgcXVhbnRpdGllcyBvZiBzcHJ1Y2UgZm9yIHNhbGUtIFdlbGR3b29kIGds dWUNCg0KDQpTdGV2ZSwNCiANCkFpcmNyYWZ0IFNwcnVjZSBoYXMgZm9yIHNhbGUgdGhlaXIgImJh cmdhaW4gYmFnIiBvZiBzcHJ1Y2UuIFRoaXMgY29uc2lzdHMgIG9mIA0KYSBwcmV0dHkgZ29vZCBz aXplIGJ1bmRsZSwgbWFueSBwaWVjZXMgNSBmdCBsb25nLCBvZiBhbGwga2luZHMgb2Ygc3BhciBh bmQgIA0KY2FwIHN0cmlwIGN1dC1vZmZzIHRoYXQgdGhleSBjYW4ndCBzZWxsLiBJIGFjdHVhbGx5 IGJvdWdodCB0d28gb2YgdGhlc2UgYWxvbmcgIA0KdGhlIHdheSBhbmQgSSBhbSBzbyBnbGFkIEkg ZGlkLiBJIHRoaW5rIEkgcGFpZCBhYm91dCAkMTIuMDAgZWFjaCBmb3IgdGhlbSBhdCANCnRoZSAg dGltZS4gSSB3b3VsZCBoaWdobHkgcmVjb21tZW5kIGl0LiBJIG1hZGUgbWFueSBtYW55IHBhcnRz IGZyb20gdGhpcy4gT2YgDQpjb3Vyc2UgIHlvdSBoYXZlIHRvIGhhdmUgYSB3YXkgdG8gY3V0IGFu ZCBwbGFuZSB0aGVtIHRvIHRoZSBzaXplIHlvdSBuZWVkLiBJIA0KdGhpbmsgV2lja3MgIGhhcyBh IHNpbWlsYXIgYnVuZGxlIGZvciBzYWxlLg0KIA0KSSdtIGdsYWQgdG8gaGVhciB0aGF0IHRoZSBX ZWxkd29vZCBQbGFzdGljIFJlc2luIGdsdWUgaGVsZCBzbyB3ZWxsLiBJdCBpcyAgDQp0aGUgZ2x1 ZSB0aGF0IEkgdXNlZCB0byBob2xkIHRoZSBsYW1pbmF0aW9ucyBvZiBteSBwcm9wIHRvZ2V0aGVy Lg0KIA0KRGFuICBIZWxzcGVyDQpQb3BsYXIgR3JvdmUsIElMLg0KDQoNCg0KKioqKioqKioqKioq KipMb29raW5nIGZvciBzaW1wbGUgc29sdXRpb25zIHRvIHlvdXIgcmVhbC1saWZlIGZpbmFuY2lh bCANCmNoYWxsZW5nZXM/ICBDaGVjayBvdXQgV2FsbGV0UG9wIGZvciB0aGUgbGF0ZXN0IG5ld3Mg YW5kIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCB0aXBzIGFuZCANCmNhbGN1bGF0b3JzLiAgICAgIChodHRwOi8vd3d3 LndhbGxldHBvcC5jb20vP05DSUQ9ZW1sY250dXN3YWxsMDAwMDAwMDEpDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:15 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propeller pics soon John, Stay tuned for the photos of my just completed prop. This for me has been without a doubt the most rewarding part of the whole project so far. Last year at OSH I observed an old-timer (Jerry Thornhill from Hampshire IL) do a prop carving demonstration using all power tools- electric chain saw, 7 in. angle grinder w/ rubber backing pad and velcro sanding disc, and then finally a 5" DeWalt vibrating/rotary sander. This is the prop that is on the Bleriot engine that was run-up daily at Osh this year. The only hand tool I used was a metal file to knock off the high spots on the summer wood on the ash that I used. It looks very nice but now has to perform with some good thrust. The dimensions are 76 x 46 pitch. I arrived at this pitch by asking around and looking at the archives. For those who don't know I am using a model A. Yesterday I drilled the bolt holes. Very scary but all worked out OK. Now I have to counter bore out the back side of those holes to accept the Continental-style prop hub that I bought from Ken Perkins. Very exciting times here at this Pietenpol factory. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propeller pics soon From: amsafetyc@aol.com RGFuDQoNCkkgYW0gaW1wcmVzc2VkIGNlcnRhaW5seSBhIGd1dHN5IHVuZGVydGFraW5nLiBJIGtu b3cgSSB3b3VsZG4ndCBldmVuIHRoaW5rIGFib3V0IGF0dGVtcHRpbmcgc3VjaCBhIGZlaXQuIFRo YXQgYWxsIGdvZXMgdG8gdGhlIHNraWxsIGFuZCBjb25maWRlbmNlIGxldmVscyBvZiB0aGUgYnVp bGRlci4gSSBjYW4ndCB3YWl0IHRvIHNlZSBpdCwgc291bmRzIGxpa2UgeW91J2xsIGJlIHJlYWR5 IGZvciBPc2hrb3NoIHdpdGggdGltZSB0byBzcGFyZS4gDQoNCkkgYW0gbG9va2luZyBmb3J3YXJk IHRvIHNlZWluZyBpdCBpbiBCcm9kaGVhZCB0aGlzIEp1bHkNCg0KDQpKb2huDQpTZW50IGZyb20g bXkgVmVyaXpvbiBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0t LS0tDQpGcm9tOiBIZWxzcGVyU2V3QGFvbC5jb20NCg0KRGF0ZTogU3VuLCAyOCBTZXAgMjAwOCAw OTo1ODoyMCANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJl 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Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propeller pics soon From: amsafetyc@aol.com RGFuDQoNCkJ0dyBJIGFtIGluIG5lZWQgb2Ygc29tZSBjdXN0b20gc2VhdCBiZWx0cyBoYXJuZXNz IHN5c3RlbS4gQW55IG9uZSB5b3UgY2FuIHRoaW5rIG9mIHRoYXQgbWF5IGJlIGluIHRoZSBzZXdp bmcgYnVzaW5lc3MgZmFtaWxpYXIgd2l0aCB0aGUgUGlldCBkZXNpZ24gdGhhdCBjb3VsZCBkbyB0 aGF0IGZvciBtZT8NCg0KUGxlYXNlIGFkdmlzZQ0KDQpKb2huDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVyaXpv biBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9t OiBIZWxzcGVyU2V3QGFvbC5jb20NCg0KRGF0ZTogU3VuLCAyOCBTZXAgMjAwOCAwOTo1ODoyMCAN ClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQaWV0ZW5w b2wtTGlzdDogUHJvcGVsbGVyIHBpY3Mgc29vbg0KDQoNCkpvaG4sDQogDQpTdGF5IHR1bmVkIGZv ciB0aGUgcGhvdG9zIG9mIG15IGp1c3QgY29tcGxldGVkIHByb3AuIFRoaXMgZm9yIG1lIGhhcyBi ZWVuICANCndpdGhvdXQgYSBkb3VidCB0aGUgbW9zdCByZXdhcmRpbmcgcGFydCBvZiB0aGUgd2hv bGUgcHJvamVjdCBzbyBmYXIuIExhc3QgeWVhciAgDQphdCBPU0ggSSBvYnNlcnZlZCBhbiBvbGQt 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ZWQgb3V0IE9LLiBOb3cgSSBoYXZlIHRvIGNvdW50ZXIgDQpib3JlIG91dCB0aGUgIGJhY2sgc2lk ZSBvZiB0aG9zZSBob2xlcyB0byBhY2NlcHQgdGhlIENvbnRpbmVudGFsLXN0eWxlIHByb3AgDQpo dWIgdGhhdCBJIGJvdWdodCAgZnJvbSBLZW4gUGVya2lucy4gVmVyeSBleGNpdGluZyB0aW1lcyBo ZXJlIGF0IHRoaXMgUGlldGVucG9sIA0KZmFjdG9yeS4gIA0KDQpEYW4gIEhlbHNwZXINClBvcGxh ciBHcm92ZSwgSUwuDQoNCg0KDQoNCioqKioqKioqKioqKioqTG9va2luZyBmb3Igc2ltcGxlIHNv bHV0aW9ucyB0byB5b3VyIHJlYWwtbGlmZSBmaW5hbmNpYWwgDQpjaGFsbGVuZ2VzPyAgQ2hlY2sg b3V0IFdhbGxldFBvcCBmb3IgdGhlIGxhdGVzdCBuZXdzIGFuZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgdGlwcyBh bmQgDQpjYWxjdWxhdG9ycy4gICAgICAoaHR0cDovL3d3dy53YWxsZXRwb3AuY29tLz9OQ0lEPWVt bGNudHVzd2FsbDAwMDAwMDAxKQ0KDQo ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:41 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce Funny thing is your seat was "built to the plans". If you look at drawing #4 the side view shows both front and back seats built exactly the way your broken seat is built. I was nervous that the "Piet Gods" would strike me down when I did the *blasphemous *act of modifying the design to set each end of the front-to-back pieces on top of a vertical support on both of my seats. Rick On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Steve Ruse wrote: > I had an interesting failure on my airplane today. I was taking a 180 > pound passenger up for a ride, and about halfway through our takeoff roll, > the rudder locked in place. I immediately throttled to idle and rolled to a > stop. Turned out his seat had broken going over a bump, and fell directly > on top of the rudder pedals, which then supported all of his weight. > Could've been dangerous during a landing, as I had no rudder control. > > The interesting thing was the mode of failure. The seat was improperly > made, the 1"x1" stringers under the seat that run from front to back on the > seat bottom did not sit ON the rear support. Instead, they butted up > against another 1"x1" that sat on the rear support. They should've been > extended beside the rear stringer, so they would've carried the load all the > way to the rear support. I hope that makes sense, if not let me know and > I'll clarify. > > The interesting part is that the glue did not fail, the wood did in almost > all joints. It even split one of the 3/4" x 1" stringers nearly in half. > I've been wondering how well the glue joints maintain their strength over > time in an airplane like mine. Hopefully the pictures will explain better. > > Pictures are here: > http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/brokenseat/ > > Steve Ruse > Norman, OK > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:45 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:10 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce Sory to hear of your seat-failure.- At least it should be an easy fix. - As far as being a true purist, I say we reserve the right to get smarte r.- It's a great design but some tweaking here and there can go a long wa y (for better or worse).- Just be sure to get all the varnish off before re-gluing anything.- That will be the most uninjoyable part of the repair .- I usually use the side of a good wood chisle with a pulling motion, or a piece of glass to shave off the old finish.- Has anyone had any luck w ith chemical strippers on airplanes?-(for repairing glue joints already v arnished)-The unknown reaction, (if any) to the glue scares me.- Good l uck and keep yer chin up. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:58 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs The front seat in 41CC failed due to the nose-over, in a peculiar way. Forward impact by the pilot's feet jammed the seat forward and separated some of the joints. When I rebuilt the front seat, I found much the same thing as you guys... the glaring need for some uprights to support the ends of the seat pieces. Since getting into the front cockpit almost invariably involves standing on the front seat, those little uprights are really needed. It's amazing what a couple of 4" long pieces of wood will do. Picture of my seat framing is at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/seat.html, second photo from the bottom, and if you're a Piet purist, save yourself a rise in blood pressure and don't look because my seat is a departure from plans. Oh, and you'll also notice in the picture that 41CC has the tailwheel steering cables run all the way from rudder bar to the tailwheel, as per plans. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:11 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs Oscar, The best part of your seat repair was without a doubt the notation you put on the back. Without His blessings we would all be in trouble. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:23 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs I saw in the plans that there was no support for the rear of the seat, and I think it is one of those points where the plans are incomplete. My correction for the plans looks exactly like your fix, I added the two uprights on the sides, as they should be. I also added a "saddle gusset" to the rear of the center brace. I took a number of photos of the seat, but I am on the raod now. I will attach some photos of my fix for the seat when I get home. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs > The front seat in 41CC failed due to the nose-over, in a peculiar way. Forward impact by the pilot's feet jammed the seat forward and separated some of the joints. When I rebuilt the front seat, I found much the same thing as you guys... the glaring need for some uprights to support the ends of the seat pieces. Since getting into the front cockpit almost invariably involves standing on the front seat, those little uprights are really needed. It's amazing what a couple of 4" long pieces of wood will do. Picture of my seat framing is at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/seat.html, second photo from the bottom, and if you're a Piet purist, save yourself a rise in blood pressure and don't look because my seat is a departure from plans. Oh, and you'll also notice in the picture that 41CC has the tailwheel steering cables run all the way from rudder bar to the tailwheel, as per plans. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:05 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs Here is my installation of the front seat.I've never posted a picture before.hope it's not stripped! Front seat rear support. After seeing Oscar's pictures, I think I will add another support to carry the sides. But I did add gussets on the sides and center to help distribute the 'load.' Front supports are wide enough to help carry load. Note: Gussets. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (11 ribs down.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs The front seat in 41CC failed due to the nose-over, in a peculiar way. Forward impact by the pilot's feet jammed the seat forward and separated some of the joints. When I rebuilt the front seat, I found much the same thing as you guys... the glaring need for some uprights to support the ends of the seat pieces. Since getting into the front cockpit almost invariably involves standing on the front seat, those little uprights are really needed. It's amazing what a couple of 4" long pieces of wood will do. Picture of my seat framing is at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/seat.html, second photo from the bottom, and if you're a Piet purist, save yourself a rise in blood pressure and don't look because my seat is a departure from plans. Oh, and you'll also notice in the picture that 41CC has the tailwheel steering cables run all the way from rudder bar to the tailwheel, as per plans. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net http://www.matp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:49 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce How much do you need? I might have some extra I can send you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Ruse To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce As a side note, I now need a very small quantity of 1/4" spruce plywood and a few feet of 1"x1" spruce stock. Where would be a good place to find such a small quantity? Should I just try to find some from a local builder? Thanks, Steve Ruse Norman, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Ruse To: Pietenpol List Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 7:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce I had an interesting failure on my airplane today. I was taking a 180 pound passenger up for a ride, and about halfway through our takeoff roll, the rudder locked in place. I immediately throttled to idle and rolled to a stop. Turned out his seat had broken going over a bump, and fell directly on top of the rudder pedals, which then supported all of his weight. Could've been dangerous during a landing, as I had no rudder control. The interesting thing was the mode of failure. The seat was improperly made, the 1"x1" stringers under the seat that run from front to back on the seat bottom did not sit ON the rear support. Instead, they butted up against another 1"x1" that sat on the rear support. They should've been extended beside the rear stringer, so they would've carried the load all the way to the rear support. I hope that makes sense, if not let me know and I'll clarify. The interesting part is that the glue did not fail, the wood did in almost all joints. It even split one of the 3/4" x 1" stringers nearly in half. I've been wondering how well the glue joints maintain their strength over time in an airplane like mine. Hopefully the pictures will explain better. Pictures are here: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/brokenseat/ Steve Ruse Norman, OK href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:41 PM PST US From: "Ryan Mueller" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Paper cutter arrived! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:39 PM PST US From: "Ryan Mueller" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paper cutter arrived! (Sorry about the blank post) The paper cutter I purchased from the Michigan State University "Surplus Store" arrived while we were gone this weekend. Sturdy wood table, steel arm for $29 + $11 shipping. I unboxed it this evening and I am very pleased. The table is not perfect (nor did I expect it to be), but it is flat. The blades are actually still relatively sharp. They have surface rust from being in storage, but no pitting. I cut a small test piece of ply, and it worked great. A little clean-up and a light stoning and it will be good as new. http://www.flickr.com/photos/rmueller23/2897052933/ So, if you are looking to pick up a used paper cutter and can't find one, I would suggest calling your local/regional University or School District, and see if they have a storefront or department that is in charge of disposing of their surplus. A Google search for the same may also get results. Have a good night, Ryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.