---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/22/08: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:40 AM - Re Lift Struts (Graham & Robin Hewitt) 2. 05:06 AM - Re: Re Lift Struts (Phillips, Jack) 3. 05:43 AM - Corvair College #12 (Oscar Zuniga) 4. 05:43 AM - Re: Re Lift Struts (Jim Ash) 5. 07:52 AM - Re: Re Lift Struts (Phillips, Jack) 6. 08:13 AM - Re: Re Lift Struts (Jim Ash) 7. 08:35 AM - Re: Re Lift Struts (Phillips, Jack) 8. 08:43 AM - Re: Re Lift Struts (John Hofmann) 9. 09:45 AM - Lift Struts (Oscar Zuniga) 10. 09:49 AM - Re: Corvair College #12 (Gardiner Mason) 11. 10:24 AM - Re: Lift Struts (Isablcorky@aol.com) 12. 11:13 AM - Lift Struts (Oscar Zuniga) 13. 11:19 AM - Corvair College #12 (Oscar Zuniga) 14. 11:38 AM - Re: Lift Struts (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 15. 12:27 PM - Re: Lift Struts (Isablcorky@aol.com) 16. 12:45 PM - Re: Lift Struts (Jim Ash) 17. 01:39 PM - Re: Lift Struts (Ben Williams) 18. 02:29 PM - Re: Lift Struts (Gene & Tammy) 19. 03:59 PM - Re: Pietenpol Bomber (Lagowski Morrow) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:41 AM PST US From: "Graham & Robin Hewitt" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts Hi Builders I would appreciate some feed back on Lift struts for Pietenpols Some plans show all four struts to be 2.68 inches X 1.44 inches with a wall of .049 Am sure that many Cubs and similar types have the rear strut much smaller in section than the front And the front strut much less than 2 inches wide. Has any one considered Alloy , I believe that some Ballanca planes use this with fittings bolted to the ends. Your views would be appreciated Regards Graham Hewitt ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:36 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts From: "Phillips, Jack" Graham, Much of this is in the Archives, for these are common questions. Some planes have smaller rear lift struts than front lift struts. However, most planes have a rear spar much smaller and further aft than the Pietenpol's rear spar. In most planes the rear spar carries less than half the load of the front spar. In the Pietenpol design, the two spars are the same size and the rear spar is relatively far forward, suggesting that it carries a substantial part of the wing load. As for alloy, I assume you are referring to aluminum alloy. These have been used with success in the past (interplane struts on a Stearman are aluminum) and several Piet builders are using SkyTek aluminum strut material. Again, check the archives. Several Pietenpols are flying with wooden struts as well. I used lift struts from a couple of J-3 Cubs (a recent AD made a LOT of Cub struts available for very little money) because they were cheap and readily available. Also, being steel, they were readily weldable to incorporate the fittings to attach to the spars and the fuselage (and the jury struts). Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham & Robin Hewitt Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts Hi Builders I would appreciate some feed back on Lift struts for Pietenpols Some plans show all four struts to be 2.68 inches X 1.44 inches with a wall of .049 Am sure that many Cubs and similar types have the rear strut much smaller in section than the front And the front strut much less than 2 inches wide. Has any one considered Alloy , I believe that some Ballanca planes use this with fittings bolted to the ends. Your views would be appreciated Regards Graham Hewitt _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:13 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair College #12 >From William Wynne: We've posted an update on our Web site at http://FlyCorvair.com/hangar.html with all the information for Corvair College #12 to be held Nov. 7-9 just outside Columbia, S.C. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:54 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts Please be careful if you're going to use old Cub struts. The original struts breathed, which allowed moisture into them, especially during temperature changes. This moisture would condense inside, run down, and accumulate at the bottom of the strut. The strut would rust from the inside-out, leaving little or no indication of a problem until it was structurally unsound. The AD requires the old struts to be punch tested at stations within a specified distance from the bottom and rolled with (hot) linseed oil. The rolling consequently requires their removal. The AD is satisfied permanently if the struts are replaced with sealed struts, available from Univair. The on-going cost and hassle of the AD has incented a lot of Cub people to just bite the bullet, replace their struts, and be done with it, which is what I did with mine maybe 6-8 years ago. This is why there is a glut of old Cub struts around. This is a well-known AD for the Cub, and sealed struts add value to a Cub when doing a pre-purchase inspection. The last time I saw mine they were in a junk pile next to the A&P's hangar with a number of others, but I haven't lived in the area for 6+ years, that A&P is gone, and the airport (X55) has changed hands since then. I always meant to grab them and take them home, but I'd be willing to wager they're gone now. Non-sealed Cub struts may certainly be used like Jack did. Cub fronts and backs are the same. I'll probably use some myself. But the lower end should probably be hacked off and a new lower fitting welded onto the slightly shorter strut, if a visual inspection of the internals of the strut comes up relatively clean. I might also be inclined to dry them out somehow, roll them once, then fill in the oil filler hole, effectively sealing them. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: "Phillips, Jack" >Sent: Oct 22, 2008 8:05 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts > >Graham, > > > >Much of this is in the Archives, for these are common questions. > > > >Some planes have smaller rear lift struts than front lift struts. >However, most planes have a rear spar much smaller and further aft than >the Pietenpol's rear spar. In most planes the rear spar carries less >than half the load of the front spar. In the Pietenpol design, the two >spars are the same size and the rear spar is relatively far forward, >suggesting that it carries a substantial part of the wing load. > > > >As for alloy, I assume you are referring to aluminum alloy. These have >been used with success in the past (interplane struts on a Stearman are >aluminum) and several Piet builders are using SkyTek aluminum strut >material. Again, check the archives. Several Pietenpols are flying >with wooden struts as well. > > > >I used lift struts from a couple of J-3 Cubs (a recent AD made a LOT of >Cub struts available for very little money) because they were cheap and >readily available. Also, being steel, they were readily weldable to >incorporate the fittings to attach to the spars and the fuselage (and >the jury struts). > > > >Jack Phillips > >NX899JP > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham & >Robin Hewitt >Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:40 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts > > > > > > > > > >Hi Builders > >I would appreciate some feed back on Lift struts for Pietenpols > > > >Some plans show all four struts to be 2.68 inches X 1.44 inches with a > >wall of .049 > > > >Am sure that many Cubs and similar types have the rear strut much > >smaller in section than the front > > > >And the front strut much less than 2 inches wide. > > > >Has any one considered Alloy , I believe that some Ballanca planes use > >this with fittings bolted to the ends. > > > >Your views would be appreciated > > > >Regards Graham Hewitt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________ > >or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts From: "Phillips, Jack" Everything Jim said is true, except that the front and rear struts are the same on a Cub. The front struts are bigger, and have fairlead lugs for the aileron cables welded to the strut. Since Cub struts are a little over 10' long and a Pietenpol strus is typically about 8', you can safely cut off the bottom 2' where the rust is and then eiather seal or oil the struts. When I cut mine, there was a big wad of oil goo in the bottom, but no rust. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:44 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts Please be careful if you're going to use old Cub struts. The original struts breathed, which allowed moisture into them, especially during temperature changes. This moisture would condense inside, run down, and accumulate at the bottom of the strut. The strut would rust from the inside-out, leaving little or no indication of a problem until it was structurally unsound. The AD requires the old struts to be punch tested at stations within a specified distance from the bottom and rolled with (hot) linseed oil. The rolling consequently requires their removal. The AD is satisfied permanently if the struts are replaced with sealed struts, available from Univair. The on-going cost and hassle of the AD has incented a lot of Cub people to just bite the bullet, replace their struts, and be done with it, which is what I did with mine maybe 6-8 years ago. This is why there is a glut of old Cub struts around. This is a well-known AD for the Cub, and sealed struts add value to a Cub when doing a pre-purchase inspection. The last time I saw mine they were in a junk pile next to the A&P's hangar with a number of others, but I haven't lived in the area for 6+ years, that A&P is gone, and the airport (X55) has changed hands since then. I always meant to grab them and take them home, but I'd be willing to wager they're gone now. Non-sealed Cub struts may certainly be used like Jack did. Cub fronts and backs are the same. I'll probably use some myself. But the lower end should probably be hacked off and a new lower fitting welded onto the slightly shorter strut, if a visual inspection of the internals of the strut comes up relatively clean. I might also be inclined to dry them out somehow, roll them once, then fill in the oil filler hole, effectively sealing them. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: "Phillips, Jack" >Sent: Oct 22, 2008 8:05 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts > >Graham, > > > >Much of this is in the Archives, for these are common questions. > > > >Some planes have smaller rear lift struts than front lift struts. >However, most planes have a rear spar much smaller and further aft than >the Pietenpol's rear spar. In most planes the rear spar carries less >than half the load of the front spar. In the Pietenpol design, the two >spars are the same size and the rear spar is relatively far forward, >suggesting that it carries a substantial part of the wing load. > > > >As for alloy, I assume you are referring to aluminum alloy. These have >been used with success in the past (interplane struts on a Stearman are >aluminum) and several Piet builders are using SkyTek aluminum strut >material. Again, check the archives. Several Pietenpols are flying >with wooden struts as well. > > > >I used lift struts from a couple of J-3 Cubs (a recent AD made a LOT of >Cub struts available for very little money) because they were cheap and >readily available. Also, being steel, they were readily weldable to >incorporate the fittings to attach to the spars and the fuselage (and >the jury struts). > > > >Jack Phillips > >NX899JP > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham & >Robin Hewitt >Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:40 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts > > > > > > > > > >Hi Builders > >I would appreciate some feed back on Lift struts for Pietenpols > > > >Some plans show all four struts to be 2.68 inches X 1.44 inches with a > >wall of .049 > > > >Am sure that many Cubs and similar types have the rear strut much > >smaller in section than the front > > > >And the front strut much less than 2 inches wide. > > > >Has any one considered Alloy , I believe that some Ballanca planes use > >this with fittings bolted to the ends. > > > >Your views would be appreciated > > > >Regards Graham Hewitt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________ > >or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:26 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts They're not the same? I've owned that plane for 15 years and never noticed. And I do a really long and thorough pre-flight, so it's that much more embarrassing. I never thought about the cable leads, but now that you mention it, you're right. When I ordered the sealed struts, I just ordered a set, assuming it was 4x of the same thing, not thinking it was 2x2. I had them shipped straight to my A&P, so I never saw the invoice; just a healthy charge on a card. I stand corrected. When you say the front struts are bigger, is that only in length, or cross-section as well? Jim -----Original Message----- >From: "Phillips, Jack" >Sent: Oct 22, 2008 10:49 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts > > >Everything Jim said is true, except that the front and rear struts are >the same on a Cub. The front struts are bigger, and have fairlead lugs >for the aileron cables welded to the strut. > >Since Cub struts are a little over 10' long and a Pietenpol strus is >typically about 8', you can safely cut off the bottom 2' where the rust >is and then eiather seal or oil the struts. When I cut mine, there was >a big wad of oil goo in the bottom, but no rust. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash >Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:44 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com; pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts > > >Please be careful if you're going to use old Cub struts. > >The original struts breathed, which allowed moisture into them, >especially during temperature changes. This moisture would condense >inside, run down, and accumulate at the bottom of the strut. The strut >would rust from the inside-out, leaving little or no indication of a >problem until it was structurally unsound. The AD requires the old >struts to be punch tested at stations within a specified distance from >the bottom and rolled with (hot) linseed oil. The rolling consequently >requires their removal. The AD is satisfied permanently if the struts >are replaced with sealed struts, available from Univair. The on-going >cost and hassle of the AD has incented a lot of Cub people to just bite >the bullet, replace their struts, and be done with it, which is what I >did with mine maybe 6-8 years ago. This is why there is a glut of old >Cub struts around. This is a well-known AD for the Cub, and sealed >struts add value to a Cub when doing a pre-purchase inspection. > >The last time I saw mine they were in a junk pile next to the A&P's >hangar with a number of others, but I haven't lived in the area for 6+ >years, that A&P is gone, and the airport (X55) has changed hands since >then. I always meant to grab them and take them home, but I'd be willing >to wager they're gone now. > >Non-sealed Cub struts may certainly be used like Jack did. Cub fronts >and backs are the same. I'll probably use some myself. But the lower end >should probably be hacked off and a new lower fitting welded onto the >slightly shorter strut, if a visual inspection of the internals of the >strut comes up relatively clean. I might also be inclined to dry them >out somehow, roll them once, then fill in the oil filler hole, >effectively sealing them. > >Jim > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: "Phillips, Jack" >>Sent: Oct 22, 2008 8:05 AM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts >> >>Graham, >> >> >> >>Much of this is in the Archives, for these are common questions. >> >> >> >>Some planes have smaller rear lift struts than front lift struts. >>However, most planes have a rear spar much smaller and further aft than >>the Pietenpol's rear spar. In most planes the rear spar carries less >>than half the load of the front spar. In the Pietenpol design, the two >>spars are the same size and the rear spar is relatively far forward, >>suggesting that it carries a substantial part of the wing load. >> >> >> >>As for alloy, I assume you are referring to aluminum alloy. These have >>been used with success in the past (interplane struts on a Stearman are >>aluminum) and several Piet builders are using SkyTek aluminum strut >>material. Again, check the archives. Several Pietenpols are flying >>with wooden struts as well. >> >> >> >>I used lift struts from a couple of J-3 Cubs (a recent AD made a LOT of >>Cub struts available for very little money) because they were cheap and >>readily available. Also, being steel, they were readily weldable to >>incorporate the fittings to attach to the spars and the fuselage (and >>the jury struts). >> >> >> >>Jack Phillips >> >>NX899JP >> >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham >& >>Robin Hewitt >>Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:40 AM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Hi Builders >> >>I would appreciate some feed back on Lift struts for Pietenpols >> >> >> >>Some plans show all four struts to be 2.68 inches X 1.44 inches with a >> >>wall of .049 >> >> >> >>Am sure that many Cubs and similar types have the rear strut much >> >>smaller in section than the front >> >> >> >>And the front strut much less than 2 inches wide. >> >> >> >>Has any one considered Alloy , I believe that some Ballanca planes use >> >>this with fittings bolted to the ends. >> >> >> >>Your views would be appreciated >> >> >> >>Regards Graham Hewitt >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_________________________________________________ >> >>or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, >please notify the sender >> >>Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands >- Norsk - Portuguese > > > > >_________________________________________________ > >or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts From: "Phillips, Jack" They are bigger in cross section. I opted to use the front struts for my Pietenpol, so used the struts from 2 different J-3's. I used the fronts because they are bigger and stronger even though it meant cutting off the fairlead lugs and grinding down the welds. Most people use the rear struts for that reason. I sold the rear struts that I had (I got the complete sets of struts from two Cubs) to Rick Holland for use on his Piet. If I had it to do over again, I would probably just buy new streamline tubing and make them from scratch. New tubing is 4130 and considerably stronger than the 1018 steel used in the J-3. Those struts are only .035" wall also, whereas new stuff is .049". What is the saying, "The sour taste of poor quality lasts a lot longer than the sweet taste of low price."? Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts They're not the same? I've owned that plane for 15 years and never noticed. And I do a really long and thorough pre-flight, so it's that much more embarrassing. I never thought about the cable leads, but now that you mention it, you're right. When I ordered the sealed struts, I just ordered a set, assuming it was 4x of the same thing, not thinking it was 2x2. I had them shipped straight to my A&P, so I never saw the invoice; just a healthy charge on a card. I stand corrected. When you say the front struts are bigger, is that only in length, or cross-section as well? Jim -----Original Message----- >From: "Phillips, Jack" >Sent: Oct 22, 2008 10:49 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts > > >Everything Jim said is true, except that the front and rear struts are >the same on a Cub. The front struts are bigger, and have fairlead lugs >for the aileron cables welded to the strut. > >Since Cub struts are a little over 10' long and a Pietenpol strus is >typically about 8', you can safely cut off the bottom 2' where the rust >is and then eiather seal or oil the struts. When I cut mine, there was >a big wad of oil goo in the bottom, but no rust. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash >Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:44 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com; pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts > > >Please be careful if you're going to use old Cub struts. > >The original struts breathed, which allowed moisture into them, >especially during temperature changes. This moisture would condense >inside, run down, and accumulate at the bottom of the strut. The strut >would rust from the inside-out, leaving little or no indication of a >problem until it was structurally unsound. The AD requires the old >struts to be punch tested at stations within a specified distance from >the bottom and rolled with (hot) linseed oil. The rolling consequently >requires their removal. The AD is satisfied permanently if the struts >are replaced with sealed struts, available from Univair. The on-going >cost and hassle of the AD has incented a lot of Cub people to just bite >the bullet, replace their struts, and be done with it, which is what I >did with mine maybe 6-8 years ago. This is why there is a glut of old >Cub struts around. This is a well-known AD for the Cub, and sealed >struts add value to a Cub when doing a pre-purchase inspection. > >The last time I saw mine they were in a junk pile next to the A&P's >hangar with a number of others, but I haven't lived in the area for 6+ >years, that A&P is gone, and the airport (X55) has changed hands since >then. I always meant to grab them and take them home, but I'd be willing >to wager they're gone now. > >Non-sealed Cub struts may certainly be used like Jack did. Cub fronts >and backs are the same. I'll probably use some myself. But the lower end >should probably be hacked off and a new lower fitting welded onto the >slightly shorter strut, if a visual inspection of the internals of the >strut comes up relatively clean. I might also be inclined to dry them >out somehow, roll them once, then fill in the oil filler hole, >effectively sealing them. > >Jim > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: "Phillips, Jack" >>Sent: Oct 22, 2008 8:05 AM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts >> >>Graham, >> >> >> >>Much of this is in the Archives, for these are common questions. >> >> >> >>Some planes have smaller rear lift struts than front lift struts. >>However, most planes have a rear spar much smaller and further aft than >>the Pietenpol's rear spar. In most planes the rear spar carries less >>than half the load of the front spar. In the Pietenpol design, the two >>spars are the same size and the rear spar is relatively far forward, >>suggesting that it carries a substantial part of the wing load. >> >> >> >>As for alloy, I assume you are referring to aluminum alloy. These have >>been used with success in the past (interplane struts on a Stearman are >>aluminum) and several Piet builders are using SkyTek aluminum strut >>material. Again, check the archives. Several Pietenpols are flying >>with wooden struts as well. >> >> >> >>I used lift struts from a couple of J-3 Cubs (a recent AD made a LOT of >>Cub struts available for very little money) because they were cheap and >>readily available. Also, being steel, they were readily weldable to >>incorporate the fittings to attach to the spars and the fuselage (and >>the jury struts). >> >> >> >>Jack Phillips >> >>NX899JP >> >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham >& >>Robin Hewitt >>Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:40 AM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Hi Builders >> >>I would appreciate some feed back on Lift struts for Pietenpols >> >> >> >>Some plans show all four struts to be 2.68 inches X 1.44 inches with a >> >>wall of .049 >> >> >> >>Am sure that many Cubs and similar types have the rear strut much >> >>smaller in section than the front >> >> >> >>And the front strut much less than 2 inches wide. >> >> >> >>Has any one considered Alloy , I believe that some Ballanca planes use >> >>this with fittings bolted to the ends. >> >> >> >>Your views would be appreciated >> >> >> >>Regards Graham Hewitt >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_________________________________________________ >> >>or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, >please notify the sender >> >>Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands >- Norsk - Portuguese > > > > >_________________________________________________ > >or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese > > _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:07 AM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts Cross section is bigger on the front strut as well. Not the best picture but you can see the difference here. These are the sealed struts with the big forks on my Cub. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Oct 22, 2008, at 10:11 AM, Jim Ash wrote: > > They're not the same? I've owned that plane for 15 years and never > noticed. And I do a really long and thorough pre-flight, so it's > that much more embarrassing. I never thought about the cable leads, > but now that you mention it, you're right. When I ordered the sealed > struts, I just ordered a set, assuming it was 4x of the same thing, > not thinking it was 2x2. I had them shipped straight to my A&P, so I > never saw the invoice; just a healthy charge on a card. I stand > corrected. > > When you say the front struts are bigger, is that only in length, or > cross-section as well? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- >> From: "Phillips, Jack" >> Sent: Oct 22, 2008 10:49 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts >> >> > >> >> Everything Jim said is true, except that the front and rear struts >> are >> the same on a Cub. The front struts are bigger, and have fairlead >> lugs >> for the aileron cables welded to the strut. >> >> Since Cub struts are a little over 10' long and a Pietenpol strus is >> typically about 8', you can safely cut off the bottom 2' where the >> rust >> is and then eiather seal or oil the struts. When I cut mine, there >> was >> a big wad of oil goo in the bottom, but no rust. >> >> Jack Phillips >> NX899JP >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim >> Ash >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:44 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com; pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts >> >> >> Please be careful if you're going to use old Cub struts. >> >> The original struts breathed, which allowed moisture into them, >> especially during temperature changes. This moisture would condense >> inside, run down, and accumulate at the bottom of the strut. The >> strut >> would rust from the inside-out, leaving little or no indication of a >> problem until it was structurally unsound. The AD requires the old >> struts to be punch tested at stations within a specified distance >> from >> the bottom and rolled with (hot) linseed oil. The rolling >> consequently >> requires their removal. The AD is satisfied permanently if the struts >> are replaced with sealed struts, available from Univair. The on-going >> cost and hassle of the AD has incented a lot of Cub people to just >> bite >> the bullet, replace their struts, and be done with it, which is >> what I >> did with mine maybe 6-8 years ago. This is why there is a glut of old >> Cub struts around. This is a well-known AD for the Cub, and sealed >> struts add value to a Cub when doing a pre-purchase inspection. >> >> The last time I saw mine they were in a junk pile next to the A&P's >> hangar with a number of others, but I haven't lived in the area for >> 6+ >> years, that A&P is gone, and the airport (X55) has changed hands >> since >> then. I always meant to grab them and take them home, but I'd be >> willing >> to wager they're gone now. >> >> Non-sealed Cub struts may certainly be used like Jack did. Cub fronts >> and backs are the same. I'll probably use some myself. But the >> lower end >> should probably be hacked off and a new lower fitting welded onto the >> slightly shorter strut, if a visual inspection of the internals of >> the >> strut comes up relatively clean. I might also be inclined to dry them >> out somehow, roll them once, then fill in the oil filler hole, >> effectively sealing them. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Phillips, Jack" >>> Sent: Oct 22, 2008 8:05 AM >>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts >>> >>> Graham, >>> >>> >>> >>> Much of this is in the Archives, for these are common questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> Some planes have smaller rear lift struts than front lift struts. >>> However, most planes have a rear spar much smaller and further aft >>> than >>> the Pietenpol's rear spar. In most planes the rear spar carries >>> less >>> than half the load of the front spar. In the Pietenpol design, >>> the two >>> spars are the same size and the rear spar is relatively far forward, >>> suggesting that it carries a substantial part of the wing load. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for alloy, I assume you are referring to aluminum alloy. These >>> have >>> been used with success in the past (interplane struts on a >>> Stearman are >>> aluminum) and several Piet builders are using SkyTek aluminum strut >>> material. Again, check the archives. Several Pietenpols are flying >>> with wooden struts as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> I used lift struts from a couple of J-3 Cubs (a recent AD made a >>> LOT of >>> Cub struts available for very little money) because they were >>> cheap and >>> readily available. Also, being steel, they were readily weldable to >>> incorporate the fittings to attach to the spars and the fuselage >>> (and >>> the jury struts). >>> >>> >>> >>> Jack Phillips >>> >>> NX899JP >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> Graham >> & >>> Robin Hewitt >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:40 AM >>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Builders >>> >>> I would appreciate some feed back on Lift struts for Pietenpols >>> >>> >>> >>> Some plans show all four struts to be 2.68 inches X 1.44 inches >>> with a >>> >>> wall of .049 >>> >>> >>> >>> Am sure that many Cubs and similar types have the rear strut much >>> >>> smaller in section than the front >>> >>> >>> >>> And the front strut much less than 2 inches wide. >>> >>> >>> >>> Has any one considered Alloy , I believe that some Ballanca planes >>> use >>> >>> this with fittings bolted to the ends. >>> >>> >>> >>> Your views would be appreciated >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards Graham Hewitt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________ >>> >>> or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, >> please notify the sender >>> >>> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - >>> Nederlands >> - Norsk - Portuguese >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________ >> >> or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, >> please notify the sender >> >> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - >> Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:47 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts 41CC has the larger size strut on the main and the smaller one of the rear. The bottoms are welded closed very much like the Cub picture that John posted, but the top ends of the struts are open in order to fit the attach straps as detailed in the plans. I'm not sure I've ever noticed any drain holes in the bottoms of the struts but then again the top ends of the struts are under the wings so I would not expect to ever get rain in them. And since I never wash the airplane, there is no fear of wash water getting in them either ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:03 AM PST US From: "Gardiner Mason" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair College #12 Is camping under the wing allowed at the college? Also, is there a toilet available? Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:42 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair College #12 > > >>From William Wynne: > > We've posted an update on our Web site at > > http://FlyCorvair.com/hangar.html with all the information for Corvair > College #12 to be held Nov. 7-9 just > outside Columbia, S.C. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:02 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts Oscar, Had planned to drill a small hole on lower extreme of all four struts but that was before ole Al set in so you will have to do it. Fronts are NEW stuf f. Rears, only God knows. CMC Do Not Archive **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites , no registration required and great graphics =93 check it out! http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:52 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts Corky wrote- >Had planned to drill a small hole on lower extreme of all four struts but >that was before ole Al set in so you will have to do it. >Fronts are NEW stuff. Ok, Corky- I'll take care of it but you know they say you can keep Mr. Alzheimer at bay by keeping your mind challenged. For example of a good mental challenge, have you ever wondered how much water an empty milk jug would displace, and how many of them it might take to float a Piet at full gross if it were to go down in Calcasieu Lake? By the way, I know your eyesight is pretty fair, judging by the AARP eye chart you sent me a while ago ;o) Oscar Zuniga current caretaker of Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:04 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair College #12 Gardiner asks- >Is camping under the wing allowed at the college? >Also, is there a toilet available? Since the event is taking place at an airpark and being hosted by residents of the park, I assume that there will be toilets available in their home or hangar. I would also assume people could camp under their wing. However, you can get that info from William Wynne if there is any doubt. Oscar Zuniga current caretaker of Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:12 AM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts Hey Corky! - When you having a good old brisket cookout so's I can come down and visit y ou's southern folk. Bout time I take a trip down your way. Maybe a nice "Pi etenpol Inexcuseable Southern Stir"..........A "PISS" flyin.... - - Yankee Ken Fargo, ND- - --- On Wed, 10/22/08, Isablcorky@aol.com wrote: From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts Oscar, Had planned to drill a small hole on lower extreme of all four struts but t hat was before ole Al set in so you will have to do it. Fronts are NEW stuf f. Rears, only God knows. CMC - - Do Not Archive Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registra tion required and 1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?n cid=emlcntusgame00000001"> check it out! =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:37 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts Do not archive We would love to host a PISS but let's wait a couple of weeks. If Minnesota and any other Pietenpol state falls in the Demoncratic column you yankee b------ds can starve as far as we real Americans are concerned. We love you Ken. David is always asking about you. I tell him I think you are angry with us. CMC Do not archive **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites , no registration required and great graphics =93 check it out! http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:43 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts Rain ain't the problem; it's condensation. If the tops of your struts are open (and have been for years), do yourself the favor and inspect the bottoms. If they're really open, maybe you could get a fiberscope down there for a look-see. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga >Sent: Oct 22, 2008 12:44 PM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts > > > >41CC has the larger size strut on the main and the smaller one of the rear. The bottoms are welded closed very much like the Cub picture that John posted, but the top ends of the struts are open in order to fit the attach straps as detailed in the plans. I'm not sure I've ever noticed any drain holes in the bottoms of the struts but then again the top ends of the struts are under the wings so I would not expect to ever get rain in them. And since I never wash the airplane, there is no fear of wash water getting in them either ;o) > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:27 PM PST US From: Ben Williams Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts How about this? The price is for 10'.... http://store.leadingedgeairfoils.com/product_info.php?products_id=6425 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:30 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts Corky. I, for one, am getting tired of your beating around the bush. Why don't you just come out and tell us what you think?? Gene in Tennessee Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts Do not archive We would love to host a PISS but let's wait a couple of weeks. If Minnesota and any other Pietenpol state falls in the Demoncratic column you yankee b------ds can starve as far as we real Americans are concerned. We love you Ken. David is always asking about you. I tell him I think you are angry with us. CMC Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and 1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001"> check it out! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 10/20/2008 7:25 AM ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:28 PM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Bomber Jack, Wonderful story--Jim lagowski, NX221PT Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Bomber Ahhh, reminds me of the days of my youth. Back when I was 18, my Dad bought a J-3. My brother and I were going to enter it in a flour-sack bombing contest at an airshow in Memphis, so we asked a local farmer who had an airstrip if we could practice bombing at his place. He said he'd rather we'd use lime than flour so it would do his fields some good and let us go. We started practicing with various altitudes and weren't being very successful. I decided to try the dive-bomb approach. I took the Cub up to 1,000', chopped the throttle to idle and stood it on its nose, watching the airspeed to keep it out of the redline (125 mph on a Cub). I tossed the bomb out at about 100' and pulled back on the stick. You know, it takes just about 100' to pull a Cub out of a terminal velocity dive. I pointed the nose to the sky and gave it full throttle and it kept going down! It finally began to climb as the tailwheel kissed the grass. I decided right then and there that dive bombing is not my preferred technique. As he was watching this from the saftey of the ground, my brother kept wondering "how am I going to get home if he crashes the airplane?" The farmer watched us practice day after day and finally said "Boys, I've got 40 acres in watermelons. There are always a few that the crows have pecked holes in that I can't sell. I sure would enjoy watching you drop them." We took the stick out of the back, and my brother flew the Cub from the front seat while I sat in the back with a watermelon under each arm and 3 of them on the floorbards. I made an adjustable bombsight that proved to be pretty accurate, as long as the altitude was constant and the wind wasn't blowing too hard. I would lean out the door and shout instructions to him, as he maintained a constant altitude. I'd shout "Left a bit. Steady. Steady. A little bit to the right - Bomb's Away! We got where we could consistently hit a target the size of a car from 500'. Let me tell you, when you drop a watermelon 500' it digs a crater about 6' in daimeter and a foot deep and just fills it with mud. It throws a shower of mud and dirt about 30' in the air. Spectacular! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 2:36 PM To: Pietenpol Discussion Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Bomber Hello guys, we had a blast this past saturday with a little airport hanger party/fly-in. We were going to have a spot landing competition, and bomb drop, but just did the bombdrop. It was windy and a little bit cold but we still had fun. A friend of mine I work with came by in time for his 1st ride in the piet, little did he know he was getting drafted into the Pietenpol Airforce. He was my bombbardier. Water balloons were the ordenance, and a blue barrel the target. That is the 1st time I have tried that, we did one low torpedo type run, and a 900ft high, B-29 style approach. Of course the B-29's bombsight was waaaaay off. Earl, with his blue Stinson 108 actually hit the barrel, with his girlfriend as his bombadier, and the Eckles boys in the cub got close with the "stuka" dive bomb aproach. Next year I will try to plan a little better and get a few more invites out so we can have team bombdrop, Piets vs ???? (I bet RV's would have a heck of a time throwing stuff out.) Safe building and water bombing, _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 10/21/2008 9:10 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.