---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/05/08: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:20 AM - List Fund Raiser (Matt Dralle) 1. 03:50 AM - Re: Piet - GN! differences (kmccune) 2. 03:54 AM - Re: Spars (Michael Perez) 3. 05:12 AM - Re: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? (Tom Anderson) 4. 05:36 AM - Re: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? (Jim Ash) 5. 05:48 AM - Re: Some thoughts on building an airplane (Jonathan Ragle) 6. 05:52 AM - Re: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? (Tom Anderson) 7. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? (Jim Ash) 8. 07:45 AM - Re: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 9. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: Piet - GN! differences (Tim Willis) 10. 11:45 AM - FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS (Brady) 11. 12:12 PM - Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS (Jonathan Ragle) 12. 12:23 PM - EGT probe (Douwe Blumberg) 13. 12:54 PM - Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS (Brady) 14. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS (ALAN LYSCARS) 15. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Piet - GN! differences (H RULE) 16. 02:11 PM - Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS (Brady) 17. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS (Gene & Tammy) 18. 03:22 PM - Re: Piet - GN! differences (kmccune) 19. 03:51 PM - Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS (Brady) 20. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Piet - GN! differences (Ryan Mueller) 21. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS (Jonathan Ragle) 22. 06:10 PM - Re: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? (Lagowski Morrow) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:19 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: List Fund Raiser A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet - GN! differences From: "kmccune" >From the horses mouth... http://web.archive.org/web/20040607133619/gregagn-1.com/faq.php Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212463#212463 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:53 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars I agree Ryan. I was not trying to single anyone one person out. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:26 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? From: "Tom Anderson" I'm encouraged by the responses, gents - thanks! -------- Location: Wilson, NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212473#212473 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:45 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? Might I suggest: 1. Initially doing it on grass, maybe even wet grass, like in morning dew. Grass doesn't have the stick-em of asphalt or concrete. If you happen to land a little sideways (if you're just learning, or otherwise) the stresses on your landing gear and its attach points are less. If you happen to be in a tricycle, the nose will snap straight, and (hopefully) no harm, no foul. In a taildragger, this is a setup for a bad landing and lots of subsequent badness from there. There'll be time for hard surfaces later. 2. Avoid days with crosswinds initially. You'll have your hands (actually more feet) full without the extra help, until you get the feel of the aircraft. Sometimes when people ask me what's so special about taildraggers, I liken it to trying to push a shopping cart backwards (try it sometime). If the prevailing winds are crosswind at your local airport, consider taking it somewhere else where they're up and down the runway. 3. Fly frequently, but not a lot (sounds dumb, huh?). In any given training session, everybody has a limit, beyond which their learning ability is diminished. In my flight training experience, and depending on the instructor, aircraft, and subject du jour, I'm usually good for 1 to 1 1/2 hours before I start to get numb and any further attempts at education are pointless. My record short time has been about 20 minutes IIRC, doing recoveries under the hood from cruel and unusual attitudes (I've got a very sensitive equilibrium; nausea trumps brain almost every time, except maybe in emergencies). Don't even think about going out there and playing with your new toy for 6-8 hours at a time. But do this at least 2-3 times a week. Go back for another short session while you still remember some of the details of the last one. If not, you're going to spend some portion of your time (maybe even all of it) re-learning what you did the last time. This was one of my big mistakes with initial flight training, and it cost me a lot more time and money than it should have. 4. Find an instructor you can communicate with. Don't assume that the local guy, your father or somebody in your EAA chapter is the right guy for you, just because they're convenient to you or the price is right. If you can't learn from them, for whatever reasons, its a grand waste of your time and money. Some flight instructors are Dr. Jekyll on the ground and Mr. Hyde in the air. The one noteworthy one for me was a nice guy on the ground, but a screamer in the air. He was actually a good flight instructor, but his yelling and screaming at me got under my skin and I started screaming back after a couple sessions. After my initial screaming back, we had a conversation on the ground about our verbal communications and things went well after that. We both yelled and swore at each other, but we agreed it wasn't personal. Although I don't necessarily recommend this particular style for everyone (and I'm glad there were no cockpick voice recorders), I learned a lot from that point on, and we got along well from there. I also avoid flight instructors with habits I consider bad, but not without hearing their side of the story first. I went for an initial lesson in Manahawkin, NJ. We flew for an hour or so out over Long Beach Island, but then this guy had me hugging the trees (BIG trees, at that altitude) for the last several miles back to the airport. I was already glider rated at the time and adding on ASEL. When I questioned him about his options if the engine were to decide to play by its own rules, he pointed to a field and said we'd go there. The field was 2 miles and 200' from us; gliders don't fly that clean, let alone that plane; there's no way we'd have made it. I quietly got him to sign my log for the time and never went back. Having had a close friend die because of airplane stupidity, and having had my share of airborne emergencies, safety is a big, big thing with me, and that includes hoarding as much altitude, airspeed and runway as I can get. I had another one in Ocean City, NJ. He was slightly crippled and he had an attitude about it. (His being crippled was not personally a big deal for me - One of the better instructors I've had was a paraplegic, but he still teaches, flies arial advertising, and does some Part 135.) Maybe this poor guy was just having a bad day, but his personal attitude reflected on his flying and I just didn't feel like putting up with it and paying dearly for the privelege. 4. Once you've reached your personal comfort level, then start removing 1 or 2 above (3 and 4 will never go away). Not at the same time, and not in extreme. Ease into it, but always keep pushing the limits of what you've learned. At this phase, if you didn't learn something new today, you screwed up. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Boatright >Sent: Nov 4, 2008 10:36 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? > > >Best advice of the day, IMO. > > >> DON'T TAKE CHANCES IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE, GET AN EXPERIANCED >>T/W PILOT TO DO THE TEST FLIGHT IF YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH IT! >> >>Just my 2 cents worth >>Shad >> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:16 AM PST US From: Jonathan Ragle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Some thoughts on building an airplane Wow. Just wow. That's a very truthful post. Do not archive ol-list@matronics.comSubject: Pietenpol-List: Some thoughts on building an airplaneSince we are building a Corvair powered Piet=2C I am also subscribe d to the Corvaircraft mailing list. A discussion about alternative cams has popped up lately due to one gentleman having had a cam gear failure in his engine. All of the banter elicited the following post from William Wynne =2C the Corvair expert. I think a number of things that he says in his post are relevant to some of our recent discussions. There are some things that do not apply=2C but in the interest of continuity I did not chop up his or iginal line of thought. I apologize for the length=2C but I thought it was worthwhile.Ryan------------------------------------ CorvAircraft> Cams=2C Archives=2C Gears and reality check (Long)Friends:I j ust got an email from PF Beck=2C who said that he will be flying hisCorvair powered Pietenpol into CC#12 on Friday. If your a Piet builder or just afa n=2C try to get in early because this may be the only day PF is on hand. He lives not far away and will be headed back home at sunset. PF is a superfri endly guy who has flown something like 100 passengers in his plane since he finished it in 2004.For anyone interested in reading about Delta cams=2C I would first suggestlooking in the very easy to use archives of this list. I n October of 2003=2C Iwrote a long post called "the mother of all cam posts ". It covered the Deltacam. Read the parts about indexing and diagnosing po or running on engines withunique cams. It should tell you something that th is post is more than 5 yearsold and still no one has flown one. I would be willing to bet that 120OT-10's have gone airborne in the last 5 years. For super experienced guys LikeSteve Makish the Delta is an interesting test: For new guys building their first engine it is a detour: for people who are not putting one in their enginewho just want to talk about it=2C maybe ju st look it up in the archives insteadof rehashing it. There are a handful of topics like this that come back like a merry go-round every 18 months or so. They are brought up before newbuilders like they are a revelation=2C when in reality they have been covered beforeand not much new has be done o n them. Mark Langfords sunset pictures always impress me at first=2C and a fewminutes later they stress me out. "Why am I not aloft in our project pla ne to seethat same sunset from Florida?" I take Grace's Taylorcraft up for the last 15minutes of light. It's nice=2C This plane was built by craftsm en in AllianceOhio 62 years ago. Orbiting at 1=2C500'=2C the cockpit is bat hed in yellow light. Ilook at the welds in the tubing and think that the pe ople who made thesewelds are mostly gone now. The runway lights clicking on below signal the veryend of the day. Gliding in on final I think "How m any more months and daysuntil I am doing this in our Corvair/Buttercup? Wh at good excuse did I have forletting this day go by without getting a day closer to done?"Maybe you have a plane in your shop and you think the same things when youlook at Mark's photos=2C I can't tell you how many months and days it will takeyou=2C but three things are true: Work on the plane a little every day=3B Don'ttake unproven detours=3B and It will be well wort h the time and treasure youinvested when your done. If you doubt this=2C re ad between the lines on Mark Jonesposts. He has 230 hours aloft savoring th e rewards of this labor. Even thoughhe just had a dead stick landing=2C Ma rk isn't about to let go of what he gets out of flying a plane he built wit h his own hands.If every homebuilt started was completed=2C then we could b elieve that theirwere infinite paths to successfully completing a plane. I f every new ideacame from a builder who had finished a plane=2C we would kn ow that the writerunderstood how few innovations are actual improvements =2C and how much time eachone adds to your project. In reality=2C less tha n 10% of plans built and 20% ofkits are finished in the first 5 years. Aft er 10 years the numbers only get to15% and 25%. So if you want to increase the odds of seeing that sunset fromthe plane your creating in your shop=2C think this over...I have a pretty good idea what caused the two broken cam gears=2C and I have aplan to test my idea=2C for now=2C I don't think eve ryone else has much to worryabout. Jack wrote in that he has some ideas on the subject=3B I put the cam inhis engine 3 years ago=2C and it is fine =2C his plane was almost done a longtime ago=2C and for him=2C like almost every one else this is a non issue. However=2Cif someone really doesn't wan t to see that sunset=2C the cam gear is as good anout as any other. Likew ise=2C stay off the merry go round of ideas thatpeople talk about but neve r do. Incorporating several of these makes your projecttake longer and mak es you a test pilot=2C a title that's probably not on yourbusiness card. P ut 10 or 15 of these ideas in your project=2C and you willcreate the safes t kind of plane...the ones that never get finished=2C never fly=2C andther efore never expose their pilot to any risk.There is someone reading this r ight now=2C just like you are. He is not asyoung as he used to be. He has b een building his plane for a lot of years. Hejust read the same words you d id=2C but he is really attached to all theinnovations he has got in this pr oject. He has a bunch of pet theories=2C and hedoesn't want to change his w ay of thinking=2C He is a good guy=2C and he is going toread some more new stuff on the net tonight instead of going out and getting anhour in on the project. 12 years from now=2C his widow will sell the project to a guy fro m anotherstate who never knew him. The new guy will strip out most of the innovationsand get the bare bones plane ready to fly in a few months. He w ill take it upin the 15 minutes before sunset. Flying in smooth air=2C wit h the cockpit bathedin yellow light=2C the pilot will look down at the sou nd basic constructionand the good craftsmanship. The pilot will look at the holes that were going tomount an autopilot and a big artificial horizon =2C and a row of holes for adozen circuit breakers and the wires that went to the 3rd fuel pump. The planeflies along hands off as the pilot thinks about the builder=2C about how greatit would be to land the plane=2C put i t away=2C and spend an hour on the phonewith the builder telling him how w ell it flew. As the runway lights come onbelow=2C the pilots last though b efore heading down is "he's gone now"All the builders now flying their pla nes are not exceptional supermen. Thedifferences between builders headed f or success and those going elsewhere haslittle to do with skills=2C tools =2C wallet thickness=2C workshop space=2C or flightexperience. The most si gnificant difference is the choices people make and ifthey are going to ge t that hour of work in tonight.Thank you.William Wynne5000-18 HWY 17 #247O range Park=2C FL 32003 USA_http://FlyCorvair.com/hangar.html_ (http://www.f lycorvair.com/hangar.html)- October Update 2008 _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC=2C the Web=2C and your mobile phone with Windows Live ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:56 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? From: "Tom Anderson" Thanks, Jim - that sounds like excellent advice. I really appreciate you taking the time to post it. FWIW, I don't tolerate screaming under any situation. I had enough of that while at West Point and I don't need it in my life now. -------- Location: Wilson, NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212487#212487 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:00 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? Once upon a time, I had a manager who was a really large (both up and out) dude. He did active time in the army before, and was in the reserves when I was under him. This guy didn't know whisper; he was always loud, mostly just due to his physiological makeup. He was a nice guy with a much better than average sense of humor, and had an unconventional view of how to conduct business. I've got a good lung capacity and the ability to use it beind my voice myself. This guy and I used to go nose-to-nose in his office sometimes; that whole side of the office floor could hear it when we did. I generally try to avoid being obnoxiously loud, but those interactions with him were fun, and we both kinda enjoyed it as a way to blow off some steam. But several times, concerned co-workers approached me after those meetings, asking if I was ok. It was nice they were genuinely concerned for my well-being, but I just told them that's how Chuck and I did business sometimes. We both had a few good laughs over it. Some people work that way, some don't. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Tom Anderson >Sent: Nov 5, 2008 8:52 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? > > >Thanks, Jim - that sounds like excellent advice. I really appreciate you taking the time to post it. > >FWIW, I don't tolerate screaming under any situation. I had enough of that while at West Point and I don't need it in my life now. > >-------- >Location: Wilson, NC > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212487#212487 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:01 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? To paraphrase my instructor's advice on learning to fly or practicing flying: "Don't fly if you don't feel good or the plane or the weather is not acceptable. Flying should be fun." "If you are practicing landings and it is about time to stop and you have a great landing, Stop on that landing, It will remain in your memory and that will be the landing that you consider to be the standard." "If your landings are consistantly off, stop and tie the plane down, no reason to practice bad landings." 'If you go up and it does not feet right and you are not doing things right, Land and tie the plane down. You are paying to fly and enjoy it and hone your skill. Don't waste time and money on bad flying." He did push me on learning. He did not want me to just fly around paying for dead weight in the right seat. I was a Grad student and did not have a lot of money. Once I was signed off to solo when I wanted he told me to practice but that it was OK to go fly for fun sometimes. It sure kept my enthusium up. If he had a student with whom he was not being effective (rare) he did not take it personally. He had the club Senior flight instructor meet with him and the student and discuss who might do a better job. Too bad he now flys for Transavia in Holland and is not instructing. Blue skies Steve D ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:31 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet - GN! differences Reaction to the claims. First the claims. Q: What is the difference between the GN-1 Aircamper and the the original Pietenpol Aircamper? A: Here's what's different between the GN-1 Aircamper and the Pietenpol Aircamper: Modified the structure to accept Piper, Aeronca and early Cessna wing panels. Modified the airfoil leading edge from the front spar forward to give better stall characteristics. Relocated the CG to acceptable limits. Redesigned fuselage structure to accept flat-four aircraft engines, 65 to 85 hp. Redesigned entire structure to accept Piper landing gear and Piper firewall forward, which in the fifties were in plentiful supply new and used. If not available today, no problem, these can be fabricated, plans show how. Designed a steel tube, welded fuselage structure. The plans show both wood and steel tube fuselages. Raised the wing position to allow easier entry and exit for both pilot and passenger. =========================== My reaction: The plans that Don Pietenpol sells today offer some of these same items, e.g.: --welded steel tubing fuze option, --optional Piper-style LG (although the Grega has added side-to-side and "W" members below the fuze)... [IMO, the Grega LG is stronger but heavier...], --drawings for engine mounts for the Continental and the Corvair engine. Otherwise, --Lengthened cabanes, cited obliquely in this old FAQ, is something many have done on Piets. --If you use the Grega design wooden rib (as opposed to actual Piper panels), you still have the shape of the Piet lower surface, but a rounder (larger dia.) nose than BP's. It is sort of a half-ass Clark Y, half BP. (I am using that airfoil myself.) Interpreting remarks by H. Riblett, the Grega airfoil might still separate airflow at nearly 12 percent climbing attitude (maybe another 2-3 degrees more, IMO), and at the same minus-2 percent [2 degree down-angle (glide)] as the BP airfoil. I don't know what Mr. Grega did about CG and would like to know. I think the Grega design uses Cub lift struts with their common single attach point. If that is so, I think it would sure would make it more difficult to swing the wing back to achieve tolerable CG for fatboys like me. Your reactions, pls. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: kmccune >Sent: Nov 5, 2008 6:50 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet - GN! differences > > >>From the horses mouth... > >http://web.archive.org/web/20040607133619/gregagn-1.com/faq.php > >Kevin > >-------- >Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212463#212463 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:07 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS From: "Brady" Gentlemen, This morning at 10:00 am FedEx left with us the first and only 3 forged 4340 Corvair crankshafts in existence that we aware of. Today is a day that will go down in Corvair-powered aircraft history as these are one of the most important developments for our engines. We are very excited about their long awaited arrival and we are, so far, very pleased with the results. More information and pictures are forthcoming this week. For inquiring minds, as measured this morning, the main bearing journal radii are .125", and the rod bearing journals radii are .100". Check our website often for updates on this exciting and long-awaited project! www.magnificentmachine.com Thank you, -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212533#212533 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:35 PM PST US From: Jonathan Ragle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS Nice. Callies? Looks like a very nice part. I'm suprised that the price is as reasonable as it is for a freakin billet crank for such an off the wa ll application as a 'vair. Way to go man. Wait=2C hang on... just re-read your post. Are they forged or billet? Eit her way I'm sure tey will be a hot item. Jonathan Do not archive> Subject: Pietenpol-List: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS> F rom: brady@magnificentmachine.com> Date: Wed=2C 5 Nov 2008 11:43:45 -0800> Brady" > > Gentlemen=2C> > This morning at 10 :00 am FedEx left with us the first and only 3 forged 4340 Corvair cranksha fts in existence that we aware of. Today is a day that will go down in Corv air-powered aircraft history as these are one of the most important develop ments for our engines. We are very excited about their long awaited arrival and we are=2C so far=2C very pleased with the results. More information an d pictures are forthcoming this week. > > For inquiring minds=2C as measure d this morning=2C the main bearing journal radii are .125"=2C and the rod b earing journals radii are .100". > > Check our website often for updates on this exciting and long-awaited project!> www.magnificentmachine.com> > Tha nk you=2C> > --------> Brady McCormick> Poulsbo=2C WA> www.magnificentmachi ne.com> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com =======> > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fast er_112008 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:26 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: EGT probe Hey everyone, I am trying to dial in the mixture on my Ford, and really need a probe style EGT gauge so I can really get it right. Does anyone have one I could borrow for a few days and return? I'll pay all the shipping and to insure it. Douwe ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS From: "Brady" Jon, Thank you for your kind words. I was offering the Billet crankshafts at a reduced price until the Forged Cranks are available. The price of the Billet Cranks will be adjusted soon, now that the Forged samples are here. The Billet cranks are very nice, but they are expensive. The forged Cranks will be available in a 3" stroke, a 3.125" & a 3.25" stroke. They are not made by Callies. They are made over seas by one of the largest crankshaft manufacturers. ISO 9001 & QS 9000 certified. -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212552#212552 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:44 PM PST US From: "ALAN LYSCARS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS Brady, are these Chinese cranks? Al Lyscars ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brady" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS > > > Jon, > > Thank you for your kind words. > I was offering the Billet crankshafts at a reduced price until the Forged > Cranks are available. > The price of the Billet Cranks will be adjusted soon, now that the Forged > samples are here. > > The Billet cranks are very nice, but they are expensive. > > The forged Cranks will be available in a 3" stroke, a 3.125" & a 3.25" > stroke. > They are not made by Callies. > They are made over seas by one of the largest crankshaft manufacturers. > ISO 9001 & QS 9000 certified. > > -------- > Brady McCormick > Poulsbo, WA > www.magnificentmachine.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212552#212552 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:19 PM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet - GN! differences I fly a GN-1 Aircamper and if you say that the wing was modified to allow e asy access for the front passenger then I say it is still easier for a midg et to get in than a full grown person and I can't imagine how tough it must have been for the Pietenpol.They must have crawled in somehow!They must ha ve been smaller than midgets.If I could and I won't ;I wouldn't put a passe nger in my front seat.Too dangerous.=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---- =0AFrom: Tim Willis =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matr onics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, November 5, 2008 12:02:56 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pi etenpol-List: Re: Piet - GN! differences=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message po sted by: Tim Willis =0A=0AReaction to the clai ms.- First the claims.=0A=0AQ: What is the difference between the GN-1 Ai rcamper and the the original Pietenpol Aircamper? =0A=0AA: Here's what's di fferent between the GN-1 Aircamper and the Pietenpol Aircamper: =0AModified the structure to accept Piper, Aeronca and early Cessna wing panels. =0AMo dified the airfoil leading edge from the front spar forward to give better stall characteristics. =0ARelocated the CG to acceptable limits. =0ARedesig ned fuselage structure to accept flat-four aircraft engines, 65 to 85 hp. =0ARedesigned entire structure to accept Piper landing gear and Piper firew all forward, which in the fifties were in plentiful supply new and used. If not available today, no problem, these can be fabricated, plans show how. =0ADesigned a steel tube, welded fuselage structure. The plans show both wo od and steel tube fuselages. =0ARaised the wing position to allow easier en try and exit for both pilot and passenger. =0A========= ====================0AMy reaction:=0A =0AThe plans that Don Pietenpol sells today offer some of these same items, e.g.:=0A=0A--welded steel tubing fuze option, =0A--optional Piper-style LG (although the Grega has added side-to-side and "W" members below the fuze) ... [IMO, the Grega LG is stronger but heavier...],=0A--drawings for engine mounts for the Continental and the Corvair engine.=0A=0AOtherwise, =0A--Le ngthened cabanes, cited obliquely in this old FAQ, is something many have d one on Piets.=0A--If you use the Grega design wooden rib (as opposed to act ual Piper panels), you still have the shape of the Piet lower surface, but a rounder (larger dia.) nose than BP's.- It is sort of a half-ass Clark Y , half BP.- (I am using that airfoil myself.)- =0A=0AInterpreting remar ks by H. Riblett, the Grega airfoil might still separate airflow at nearly 12 percent climbing attitude (maybe another 2-3 degrees more, IMO), and at the same minus-2 percent [2 degree down-angle (glide)] as the BP airfoil. =0A=0AI don't know what Mr. Grega did about CG and would like to know.=0A =0AI think the Grega design uses Cub lift struts with their common single a ttach point.- If that is so, I think it would sure would make it more dif ficult to swing the wing back to achieve tolerable CG for fatboys like me. - =0A=0AYour reactions, pls.=0A=0ATim in central TX=0A-----Original Messa ge-----=0A>From: kmccune =0A>Sent: Nov 5, 2008 6:50 AM =0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet - ccune@somtel.net>=0A>=0A>>From the horses mouth... =0A>=0A>http://web.archi ve.org/web/20040607133619/gregagn-1.com/faq.php=0A>=0A>Kevin=0A>=0A>------- -=0A>Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bo wlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails . Explore. Dream. Discover.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here: =0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212463#212463=0A>=0A> ================= ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS From: "Brady" Al, These Crankshafts are manufactured in a facility that is ISO9001 & QS9000 Certified. QS9000 is a quality control standard developed by the "Big Three" Ford, GM & Chrysler. This same manufacture produces Crankshafts for Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler, VW, Caterpillar, Nissan, Toyota, Cleveland Diesel, and a few others that have slipped my mind at the moment. This Facility Is in Beijing China. If you have a philosophical opposition to Chinese products you should not buy one. You should also carefully research where the rest of the products in your life and their components are manufactured. You may be terribly surprised. We have had the First crankshaft we received from this manufacturer thoroughly tested for both Chemical composition and Heat Treating by a reputable Metallurgical laboratory here in Seattle WA. This Company does a lot of work for the Boeing Company. The results were beyond our expectations. These are very high quality Crankshafts. Thank you, -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212573#212573 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:15 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS Probably as safe as their milk. Wonder how many Americans that put out of work? Gene Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brady" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS > > > Al, > These Crankshafts are manufactured in a facility that is ISO9001 & QS9000 > Certified. > QS9000 is a quality control standard developed by the "Big Three" Ford, GM > & Chrysler. > This same manufacture produces Crankshafts for Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler, > VW, Caterpillar, Nissan, Toyota, Cleveland Diesel, and a few others that > have slipped my mind at the moment. > > This Facility Is in Beijing China. > > If you have a philosophical opposition to Chinese products you should not > buy one. > You should also carefully research where the rest of the products in your > life and their components are manufactured. > You may be terribly surprised. > > We have had the First crankshaft we received from this manufacturer > thoroughly tested for both Chemical composition and Heat Treating by a > reputable Metallurgical laboratory here in Seattle WA. > This Company does a lot of work for the Boeing Company. > > The results were beyond our expectations. > These are very high quality Crankshafts. > > Thank you, > > -------- > Brady McCormick > Poulsbo, WA > www.magnificentmachine.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212573#212573 > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 8:26 AM > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet - GN! differences From: "kmccune" I hope your not directing any questions towards me and wanting answers. I just was researching my next project and went to the web archive. It seemed to fit the question asked. It would seem that the "modern Pietenpol" has some of these features? I traded emails with someone from the family and I still don't have a good idea what they are selling. No slight intended, I just want more info before I lay down any cash. Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212580#212580 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:14 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS From: "Brady" Gene, You can rest assured that my crankshafts are not made in a Chinese dairy farm. However, that being said the crankshafts are still not safe for human consumption. Please do not put these crankshafts in you mouth. Do not let your children or pets put these crankshafts in their mouths either. Thank you, :) -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212584#212584 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:45 PM PST US From: "Ryan Mueller" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet - GN! differences By "family" are you referring to Grega or Pietenpol? Ryan do not archive On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:20 PM, kmccune wrote: > > ....I traded emails with someone from the family and I still don't have a > good idea what they are selling.... ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:08 PM PST US From: Jonathan Ragle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS I will say that almost all of the SBF and SBC 4340 cranks coming out of Chi na are top notch=2C and I doubt you will find an American company just dyin g to churn out rotating assemblies for an obsolete Chevy. :) > From: zharvey@bellsouth.net> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: R e: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS> Date: Wed=2C 5 Nov > > Probably as safe as their milk.> Wonder how man y Americans that put out of work?> Gene> > Do Not Archive> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brady" > To: > Sent: Wednesday=2C November 05=2C 2008 4:09 PM> Sub ject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORGED 4340 CORVAIR CRANKSHAFTS> > > > --> Pieten pol-List message posted by: "Brady" > > > >> > Al=2C> > These Crankshafts are manufactured in a facility that is ISO9001 & QS9000 > > Certified.> > QS9000 is a quality control standard developed by the "Big Three" Ford=2C GM > > & Chrysler.> > This same manufacture prod uces Crankshafts for Chevrolet=2C Ford=2C Chrysler=2C > > VW=2C Caterpillar =2C Nissan=2C Toyota=2C Cleveland Diesel=2C and a few others that > > have slipped my mind at the moment.> >> > This Facility Is in Beijing China.> >> > If you have a philosophical opposition to Chinese products you should no t > > buy one.> > You should also carefully research where the rest of the products in your > > life and their components are manufactured.> > You may be terribly surprised.> >> > We have had the First crankshaft we received from this manufacturer > > thoroughly tested for both Chemical composition and Heat Treating by a > > reputable Metallurgical laboratory here in Seatt le WA.> > This Company does a lot of work for the Boeing Company.> >> > The results were beyond our expectations.> > These are very high quality Crank shafts.> >> > Thank you=2C> >> > --------> > Brady McCormick> > Poulsbo=2C WA> > www.magnificentmachine.com> >> >> >> >> > Read this topic online here :> >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212573#212573> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- > > Checked by AVG.> > 8:26 AM> >> > > > ==================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_ 112008 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:27 PM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? Good advice-Jim Lagowski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Ash" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? > > Might I suggest: > > 1. Initially doing it on grass, maybe even wet grass, like in morning dew. > Grass doesn't have the stick-em of asphalt or concrete. If you happen to > land a little sideways (if you're just learning, or otherwise) the > stresses on your landing gear and its attach points are less. If you > happen to be in a tricycle, the nose will snap straight, and (hopefully) > no harm, no foul. In a taildragger, this is a setup for a bad landing and > lots of subsequent badness from there. There'll be time for hard surfaces > later. > > 2. Avoid days with crosswinds initially. You'll have your hands (actually > more feet) full without the extra help, until you get the feel of the > aircraft. Sometimes when people ask me what's so special about > taildraggers, I liken it to trying to push a shopping cart backwards (try > it sometime). If the prevailing winds are crosswind at your local airport, > consider taking it somewhere else where they're up and down the runway. > > 3. Fly frequently, but not a lot (sounds dumb, huh?). In any given > training session, everybody has a limit, beyond which their learning > ability is diminished. In my flight training experience, and depending on > the instructor, aircraft, and subject du jour, I'm usually good for 1 to 1 > 1/2 hours before I start to get numb and any further attempts at education > are pointless. My record short time has been about 20 minutes IIRC, doing > recoveries under the hood from cruel and unusual attitudes (I've got a > very sensitive equilibrium; nausea trumps brain almost every time, except > maybe in emergencies). Don't even think about going out there and playing > with your new toy for 6-8 hours at a time. > > But do this at least 2-3 times a week. Go back for another short session > while you still remember some of the details of the last one. If not, > you're going to spend some portion of your time (maybe even all of it) > re-learning what you did the last time. This was one of my big mistakes > with initial flight training, and it cost me a lot more time and money > than it should have. > > 4. Find an instructor you can communicate with. Don't assume that the > local guy, your father or somebody in your EAA chapter is the right guy > for you, just because they're convenient to you or the price is right. If > you can't learn from them, for whatever reasons, its a grand waste of your > time and money. > > Some flight instructors are Dr. Jekyll on the ground and Mr. Hyde in the > air. The one noteworthy one for me was a nice guy on the ground, but a > screamer in the air. He was actually a good flight instructor, but his > yelling and screaming at me got under my skin and I started screaming back > after a couple sessions. After my initial screaming back, we had a > conversation on the ground about our verbal communications and things went > well after that. We both yelled and swore at each other, but we agreed it > wasn't personal. Although I don't necessarily recommend this particular > style for everyone (and I'm glad there were no cockpick voice recorders), > I learned a lot from that point on, and we got along well from there. > > I also avoid flight instructors with habits I consider bad, but not > without hearing their side of the story first. I went for an initial > lesson in Manahawkin, NJ. We flew for an hour or so out over Long Beach > Island, but then this guy had me hugging the trees (BIG trees, at that > altitude) for the last several miles back to the airport. I was already > glider rated at the time and adding on ASEL. When I questioned him about > his options if the engine were to decide to play by its own rules, he > pointed to a field and said we'd go there. The field was 2 miles and 200' > from us; gliders don't fly that clean, let alone that plane; there's no > way we'd have made it. I quietly got him to sign my log for the time and > never went back. Having had a close friend die because of airplane > stupidity, and having had my share of airborne emergencies, safety is a > big, big thing with me, and that includes hoarding as much altitude, > airspeed and runway as I can get. > > I had another one in Ocean City, NJ. He was slightly crippled and he had > an attitude about it. (His being crippled was not personally a big deal > for me - One of the better instructors I've had was a paraplegic, but he > still teaches, flies arial advertising, and does some Part 135.) Maybe > this poor guy was just having a bad day, but his personal attitude > reflected on his flying and I just didn't feel like putting up with it and > paying dearly for the privelege. > > 4. Once you've reached your personal comfort level, then start removing 1 > or 2 above (3 and 4 will never go away). Not at the same time, and not in > extreme. Ease into it, but always keep pushing the limits of what you've > learned. At this phase, if you didn't learn something new today, you > screwed up. > > Jim Ash > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Jeff Boatright >>Sent: Nov 4, 2008 10:36 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How do you learn to fly a Pietenpol? >> >> >>Best advice of the day, IMO. >> >> >> >> >>> DON'T TAKE CHANCES IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE, GET AN EXPERIANCED >>>T/W PILOT TO DO THE TEST FLIGHT IF YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH IT! >>> >>>Just my 2 cents worth >>>Shad >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 7:17 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.