---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/12/08: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:21 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle) 1. 05:21 AM - photoshare ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 2. 06:02 AM - Re: Veterans Day (Robert Gow) 3. 06:35 AM - Re: Veterans Day (Jonathan Ragle) 4. 08:33 AM - Re: Veterans Day (Ryan Mueller) 5. 08:58 AM - Pietenpol : [ Michael D. Cuy ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! (Email List PhotoShares) 6. 11:59 AM - Spars arrived from Public Lumber (Michael Perez) 7. 01:35 PM - Elevator Trim (TOM STINEMETZE) 8. 01:46 PM - Re: Veterans Day (walt) 9. 02:12 PM - Re: Spars arrived from Public Lumber (Catdesigns) 10. 02:16 PM - Re: Spars arrived from Public Lumber (Bill Church) 11. 02:24 PM - Re: Spars arrived from Public Lumber (ALAN LYSCARS) 12. 02:39 PM - Re: Elevator Trim (Bill Church) 13. 02:42 PM - Re: Veterans Day (Robert Gow) 14. 03:00 PM - Re: Elevator Trim (walt) 15. 03:23 PM - Re: Dual mags on Model A (Robert Gow) 16. 04:59 PM - Re: Veterans Day (walt) 17. 06:18 PM - Re: Elevator Trim (Ryan Mueller) 18. 11:09 PM - Re: Elevator Trim (Jonathan Ragle) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:22 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: photoshare ? From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Hello Matt, About 3 weeks ago I sent you photos to your photoshare web e-mail address to be added to the Pietenpol list Photoshare web site and have asked you via private e-mail since if you rec'd them and if you could post them but with no reply. I've never had any issues with posting photos to Photoshare in the past so perhaps you could assist some way in getting these posted ? If you would like me to re-send them I will gladly do that. Thank you, Mike Cuy Pietenpol List ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:46 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day Wow. You need permission to salute your flag? I never thought of that. I wonder if that is true in the Great White North as well? Bob Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Patrick Panzera Sent: November 11, 2008 8:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day > WASHINGTON, D.C. - VETERANS CAN RENDER HAND SALUTE > > Its official, Veterans of the Armed Forces, and not in uniform, may render > the military salute during hoisting, lowering and/or passing of the United > States Flag. Section 9 of Title 4 United States Code, was amended to > reflect such action when the US President signed HR4986 National Defense > Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 into law on 28 January 2008. > > U.S. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) praised the passage by unanimous consent > of his bill (S.1877) clarifying U.S. law to allow veterans and servicemen > not in uniform to salute the flag > > "I look forward to seeing those who have served saluting proudly at > baseball games, parades, and formal events. I believe this is an > appropriate way to honor and recognize the 25 million veterans in the > United States who have served in the military and remain as role models to > others citizens. Those who are currently serving or have served in the > military have earned this right, and their recognition will be an > inspiration to others." > > ALL Veterans should 'Hand Salute' the flag, instead of holding hand over > heart, to show to all that they are a Veteran and not a civilian. > > You do not have to remove your hat if covered, Salute, in an honored > respect for your military service. Indoors or outdoors, this rule applies. > In uniform, or in civilian clothes, this rule applies. > > Civilians should still remove their covers and hold it over their breast. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:24 AM PST US From: Jonathan Ragle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day Most people=2C myself included=2C do not know the "proper" way to salute. I only know what I have learned from Scent of a Woman. Jon do not archive> From: rgow@avionicsdesign.ca> To: pietenpol-list@matronics. com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day> Date: Wed=2C 12 Nov 2008 08 ionicsdesign.ca>> > Wow. You need permission to salute your flag? I never t hought of that. I> wonder if that is true in the Great White North as well? > > Bob> > Do not archive.> > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-piete npol-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matroni cs.com]On Behalf Of Patrick> Panzera> Sent: November 11=2C 2008 8:00 PM> To : pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day> > > tal-aviation.com>> > > WASHINGTON=2C D.C. - VETERANS CAN RENDER HAND SALUTE > >> > Its official=2C Veterans of the Armed Forces=2C and not in uniform =2C may render> > the military salute during hoisting=2C lowering and/or pa ssing of the United> > States Flag. Section 9 of Title 4 United States Code =2C was amended to> > reflect such action when the US President signed HR49 86 National Defense> > Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 into law on 2 8 January 2008.> >> > U.S. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) praised the passage by unanimous consent> > of his bill (S.1877) clarifying U.S. law to allow veterans and servicemen> > not in uniform to salute the flag> >> > "I look forward to seeing those who have served saluting proudly at> > baseball gam es=2C parades=2C and formal events. I believe this is an> > appropriate way to honor and recognize the 25 million veterans in the> > United States who have served in the military and remain as role models to> > > others citiz ens. Those who are currently serving or have served in the> > military have earned this right=2C and their recognition will be an> > inspiration to ot hers."> >> > ALL Veterans should 'Hand Salute' the flag=2C instead of holdi ng hand over> > heart=2C to show to all that they are a Veteran and not a c ivilian.> >> > You do not have to remove your hat if covered=2C Salute=2C i n an honored> > respect for your military service. Indoors or outdoors=2C t his rule applies.> > > In uniform=2C or in civilian clothes=2C this rule ap plies.> >> > Civilians should still remove their covers and hold it over th => > > _________________________________________________________________ Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious emai l. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safe ty_112008 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:19 AM PST US From: "Ryan Mueller" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day The Flag Code is a set of advisory federal laws that dictate how to display/care for/render honor to the flag. Follow them if you wish, but you don't have to. There are no penalties for "breaking the law" in this case. do not archive On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:57 AM, Robert Gow wrote: > > > > Wow. You need permission to salute your flag? I never thought of that. I > wonder if that is true in the Great White North as well? > > Bob > > Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol : [ Michael D. Cuy ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! From: Email List PhotoShares A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: Michael D. Cuy Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Shad Bell's visit to Lorain County Airport, Ohio http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov.11.12.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:01 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars arrived from Public Lumber All of my spar material came today. I received 4 lengths for the wings and a 6' piece for the two center section spars. - They were all between 4.97" to 5.025" wide and .755" to .770" thick. I meas ured from end to end along the length at various spots on all pieces and ca me up with the numbers above as an average. - I think they are fairly straight except that one has a bow in it from one e nd about 2-3 feet long. I set the spar up on the .750" edge and I can see t he space under it where the bow is. (The 5" measurement is vertical.) At th e highest spot, is sits about .5" or so off the floor. - I have attached pictures of my only real concern. This "knot", if you will, is located at the 9'-5" length of the spar. My questions are these: - Can I use this spar as a rear spar on the wing? Should I have this not closer to the center section, or closer to the wing tip? Can I fill this knot with epoxy and use it? Should I cut out the knot, fill and epoxy? Should I use this board for other things and buy a new spar? - Also, on the very end, about 2"-is starting to crack off the board. I won der if I can epoxy this in place and move on. - Over all I am pleased, I only have this one "spot" that concerns me. Any he lp would be appreciated. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:33 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Trim I worked all weekend on a trim system and, now that it is done, I am wondering if I wasted my time. I used screen door springs from the local Ace Hardware connected to a trim wheel mounted underneath the pilot's seat by cables. It seems to work OK but I am concerned by two things: 1) the weight of the springs/cables; and 2) stiffness of the springs. This in turn brings up two questions for the group: 1) Is a trim system really necessary; and 2) How stiff do the springs need to be? Actually there's a third question as well: 3) Do you need springs on both the up and down sides of the bellcrank? HELP! Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:35 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day Bob, Before, you were taught in Boot Camp that if you, as a sailor were home and not in uniform, you did not salute the flag, but put your hand over your heart like a civilian. They recently changed it to this, and it's good. I was recently at a cerimony where they explained this and during the flag part I saluted along with maybe 30 others in a large crowd. It was a good feeling. During Viet Nam I spent 4 years in the North Atlantic, more that 1 year submerged, total time, and I'm very proud of it. Go Navy walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gow" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:57 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day > > > Wow. You need permission to salute your flag? I never thought of that. > I > wonder if that is true in the Great White North as well? > > Bob > > Do not archive. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Patrick > Panzera > Sent: November 11, 2008 8:00 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day > > > > >> WASHINGTON, D.C. - VETERANS CAN RENDER HAND SALUTE >> >> Its official, Veterans of the Armed Forces, and not in uniform, may >> render >> the military salute during hoisting, lowering and/or passing of the >> United >> States Flag. Section 9 of Title 4 United States Code, was amended to >> reflect such action when the US President signed HR4986 National Defense >> Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 into law on 28 January 2008. >> >> U.S. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) praised the passage by unanimous >> consent >> of his bill (S.1877) clarifying U.S. law to allow veterans and servicemen >> not in uniform to salute the flag >> >> "I look forward to seeing those who have served saluting proudly at >> baseball games, parades, and formal events. I believe this is an >> appropriate way to honor and recognize the 25 million veterans in the >> United States who have served in the military and remain as role models >> to > >> others citizens. Those who are currently serving or have served in the >> military have earned this right, and their recognition will be an >> inspiration to others." >> >> ALL Veterans should 'Hand Salute' the flag, instead of holding hand over >> heart, to show to all that they are a Veteran and not a civilian. >> >> You do not have to remove your hat if covered, Salute, in an honored >> respect for your military service. Indoors or outdoors, this rule >> applies. > >> In uniform, or in civilian clothes, this rule applies. >> >> Civilians should still remove their covers and hold it over their breast. > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spars arrived from Public Lumber From: "Catdesigns" Looks more like pitch pocket. I have attached a portion of ANC-19 that might help. You can download more information from ANC-19 about selecting wood at http://www.westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm look for a link to ANC-19 pg 118-126 (9.5mb). About mid page. Chris -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=213820#213820 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/anc_19_pg_118_to_126_page_6_403.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:04 PM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spars arrived from Public Lumber Mike, When in doubt, refer to AC 43.13-1B (available here, if you don't have it) http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular .nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument &Highlight=43.13 >From the photos, it looks like you might have a "pitch pocket", rather than a knot. And according to AC 43.13-1B (Chapter 1, paragraph 1-2): Notes for Table 1-1 1. Defects Permitted. e. Pitch pockets. Acceptable in center portion of a beam providing they are at least 14 inches apart when they lie in the same growth ring and do not exceed 1-1/2 inches length by 1/8 inch width by 1/8 inch depth, and providing they are not along the projecting portions of I-beams, along the edges of rectangular or beveled unrouted beams, or along the edges of the flanges of box beams. >From the photo, it looks like the defect is roughly 2" long, and 3/16" wide, and probably deeper than 1/8" (hard to tell). So it appears to be outside of acceptable limits. Since this is going to be the main structural component of your wings, I don't think I would take a chance on it. What's the cost of a new spar - $100 or so? I would buy a new piece. You will be able to use the board for other parts. The wood looks nice. What does the end grain look like? Bill C. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:56 PM PST US From: "ALAN LYSCARS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars arrived from Public Lumber Michael, Can you post pics of the end grain on your spar material? Al Lyscars Manchester, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 2:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars arrived from Public Lumber All of my spar material came today. I received 4 lengths for the wings and a 6' piece for the two center section spars. They were all between 4.97" to 5.025" wide and .755" to .770" thick. I measured from end to end along the length at various spots on all pieces and came up with the numbers above as an average. I think they are fairly straight except that one has a bow in it from one end about 2-3 feet long. I set the spar up on the .750" edge and I can see the space under it where the bow is. (The 5" measurement is vertical.) At the highest spot, is sits about .5" or so off the floor. I have attached pictures of my only real concern. This "knot", if you will, is located at the 9'-5" length of the spar. My questions are these: Can I use this spar as a rear spar on the wing? Should I have this not closer to the center section, or closer to the wing tip? Can I fill this knot with epoxy and use it? Should I cut out the knot, fill and epoxy? Should I use this board for other things and buy a new spar? Also, on the very end, about 2" is starting to crack off the board. I wonder if I can epoxy this in place and move on. Over all I am pleased, I only have this one "spot" that concerns me. Any help would be appreciated. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:47 PM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Trim Tom, Just curious, but why are you asking whether a trim system is necessary AFTER you have designed and built one? Since there is none in the plans, you must have felt it to be necessary. In any case, from what I have read, a trim system really only gets used if you have your fuel tank in the fuselage, rather than the wing. As the weight of the fuel (located ahead of the CG) is depleted, the CG shifts, and having a flight-adjustable elevator trim helps to ease the stick forces required to compensate for the shift in weight. When the fuel is in the wing, the weight is centered pretty much on the CG, so, once the plane is trimmed properly, fuel burn does not have a major effect. As with all "added features" on the Pietenpol, a trim system comes with a "price" - added weight. I haven't yet heard a Pietenpol builder regret making his plane too light. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:36 PM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day Interesting. Stuff I never knew. Vietnam. Funny, I saw Arlo Guthrie in concert a couple of weeks ago. He told a story about spending a couple of nights in a hotel where Vietnam war vets were gathered. He was asked to talk to the group and wound up giving a mini-concert. He was surprised when he received a requests from the audience for "Alice's Restaurant", which the audience joined in singing. As he said, over the years he found he had more in common with those who cared about an issue regardless of the side of the issue they were on than those who didn't care enough but took the side of convenience. You should be proud of following the course of action that your heart and conscience dictates. You care enough to lead an examined life. And you do not need to justify that to anyone. Bob Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of walt Sent: November 12, 2008 4:40 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day Bob, Before, you were taught in Boot Camp that if you, as a sailor were home and not in uniform, you did not salute the flag, but put your hand over your heart like a civilian. They recently changed it to this, and it's good. I was recently at a cerimony where they explained this and during the flag part I saluted along with maybe 30 others in a large crowd. It was a good feeling. During Viet Nam I spent 4 years in the North Atlantic, more that 1 year submerged, total time, and I'm very proud of it. Go Navy walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gow" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:57 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day > > > Wow. You need permission to salute your flag? I never thought of that. > I > wonder if that is true in the Great White North as well? > > Bob > > Do not archive. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Patrick > Panzera > Sent: November 11, 2008 8:00 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day > > > > >> WASHINGTON, D.C. - VETERANS CAN RENDER HAND SALUTE >> >> Its official, Veterans of the Armed Forces, and not in uniform, may >> render >> the military salute during hoisting, lowering and/or passing of the >> United >> States Flag. Section 9 of Title 4 United States Code, was amended to >> reflect such action when the US President signed HR4986 National Defense >> Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 into law on 28 January 2008. >> >> U.S. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) praised the passage by unanimous >> consent >> of his bill (S.1877) clarifying U.S. law to allow veterans and servicemen >> not in uniform to salute the flag >> >> "I look forward to seeing those who have served saluting proudly at >> baseball games, parades, and formal events. I believe this is an >> appropriate way to honor and recognize the 25 million veterans in the >> United States who have served in the military and remain as role models >> to > >> others citizens. Those who are currently serving or have served in the >> military have earned this right, and their recognition will be an >> inspiration to others." >> >> ALL Veterans should 'Hand Salute' the flag, instead of holding hand over >> heart, to show to all that they are a Veteran and not a civilian. >> >> You do not have to remove your hat if covered, Salute, in an honored >> respect for your military service. Indoors or outdoors, this rule >> applies. > >> In uniform, or in civilian clothes, this rule applies. >> >> Civilians should still remove their covers and hold it over their breast. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:55 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Trim Bill, I'm with you, cause I'm one of the light ones. No more white knuckles for me!! Empty wt 595# baby. I'm so glad that I had a mentor that drilled that into my head. I wound up using 2 aluminum tabs on the horz stab to get the pressure off the stick. Works OK, but still with variations due to the nose tank. I don't really fly long distances, or it would be more of a neusance. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Trim Tom, Just curious, but why are you asking whether a trim system is necessary AFTER you have designed and built one? Since there is none in the plans, you must have felt it to be necessary. In any case, from what I have read, a trim system really only gets used if you have your fuel tank in the fuselage, rather than the wing. As the weight of the fuel (located ahead of the CG) is depleted, the CG shifts, and having a flight-adjustable elevator trim helps to ease the stick forces required to compensate for the shift in weight. When the fuel is in the wing, the weight is centered pretty much on the CG, so, once the plane is trimmed properly, fuel burn does not have a major effect. As with all "added features" on the Pietenpol, a trim system comes with a "price" - added weight. I haven't yet heard a Pietenpol builder regret making his plane too light. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:16 PM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dual mags on Model A Where did you get the head? I'm at the point where I'm thinking to get an engine built with some "improvements". Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: November 3, 2008 6:03 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dual mags on Model A Gene (Rambo), Yes I have an aftermarket head with 8 plug holes. I have one mag driven off the end of the crank, and the other off the camshaft. Photo attached. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:02 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day Bob, Ah Alice's Restaurant,,,I haven't heard that since 1968. Thanks for your note,,,I guess. Not really sure what you said. But if you agreed with me,,,thanks. PS What's an examined life? Let me know. do not archive walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gow" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day > > > > Interesting. Stuff I never knew. > > Vietnam. Funny, I saw Arlo Guthrie in concert a couple of weeks ago. He > told a story about spending a couple of nights in a hotel where Vietnam > war > vets were gathered. He was asked to talk to the group and wound up giving > a > mini-concert. He was surprised when he received a requests from the > audience > for "Alice's Restaurant", which the audience joined in singing. As he > said, > over the years he found he had more in common with those who cared about > an > issue regardless of the side of the issue they were on than those who > didn't > care enough but took the side of convenience. > > You should be proud of following the course of action that your heart and > conscience dictates. You care enough to lead an C. And you do > not need to justify that to anyone. > > > Bob > > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of walt > Sent: November 12, 2008 4:40 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day > > > > Bob, > Before, you were taught in Boot Camp that if you, as a sailor were home > and > not in uniform, you did not salute the flag, but put your hand over your > heart like a civilian. > They recently changed it to this, and it's good. > I was recently at a cerimony where they explained this and during the flag > part I saluted along with maybe 30 others in a large crowd. > It was a good feeling. > During Viet Nam I spent 4 years in the North Atlantic, more that 1 year > submerged, total time, and I'm very proud of it. > > Go Navy > walt evans > NX140DL > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Gow" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:57 AM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day > > >> >> >> Wow. You need permission to salute your flag? I never thought of that. >> I >> wonder if that is true in the Great White North as well? >> >> Bob >> >> Do not archive. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Patrick >> Panzera >> Sent: November 11, 2008 8:00 PM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Veterans Day >> >> >> >> >>> WASHINGTON, D.C. - VETERANS CAN RENDER HAND SALUTE >>> >>> Its official, Veterans of the Armed Forces, and not in uniform, may >>> render >>> the military salute during hoisting, lowering and/or passing of the >>> United >>> States Flag. Section 9 of Title 4 United States Code, was amended to >>> reflect such action when the US President signed HR4986 National Defense >>> Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 into law on 28 January 2008. >>> >>> U.S. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) praised the passage by unanimous >>> consent >>> of his bill (S.1877) clarifying U.S. law to allow veterans and >>> servicemen >>> not in uniform to salute the flag >>> >>> "I look forward to seeing those who have served saluting proudly at >>> baseball games, parades, and formal events. I believe this is an >>> appropriate way to honor and recognize the 25 million veterans in the >>> United States who have served in the military and remain as role models >>> to >> >>> others citizens. Those who are currently serving or have served in the >>> military have earned this right, and their recognition will be an >>> inspiration to others." >>> >>> ALL Veterans should 'Hand Salute' the flag, instead of holding hand over >>> heart, to show to all that they are a Veteran and not a civilian. >>> >>> You do not have to remove your hat if covered, Salute, in an honored >>> respect for your military service. Indoors or outdoors, this rule >>> applies. >> >>> In uniform, or in civilian clothes, this rule applies. >>> >>> Civilians should still remove their covers and hold it over their >>> breast. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:56 PM PST US From: "Ryan Mueller" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Trim The simplest, lightest trim system would seem to be the Adel clamp around the stick, with a bungee/spring attached at or near the base of the seat: PF Beck's Piet, for example: http://picasaweb.google.com/ron.lendon/CorvairCollege12#5267207094409184402 I'm pretty sure Bill Rewey did something similar on his. On a side note, if you look to the left of his seat cushion you can see that it appears he has used a split bolt connector to secure the tailwheel steering cable to the rudder cable (top right corner has a "magnify" button). Both the trim and the cable connection done simple and light. Ryan On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Bill Church wrote: > Tom, > > Just curious, but why are you asking whether a trim system is necessary > AFTER you have designed and built one? Since there is none in the plans, you > must have felt it to be necessary. > > In any case, from what I have read, a trim system really only gets used if > you have your fuel tank in the fuselage, rather than the wing. As the weight > of the fuel (located ahead of the CG) is depleted, the CG shifts, and having > a flight-adjustable elevator trim helps to ease the stick forces required to > compensate for the shift in weight. When the fuel is in the wing, the weight > is centered pretty much on the CG, so, once the plane is trimmed properly, > fuel burn does not have a major effect. > > As with all "added features" on the Pietenpol, a trim system comes with a > "price" - added weight. > I haven't yet heard a Pietenpol builder regret making his plane too light. > > Bill C. > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:29 PM PST US From: Jonathan Ragle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Trim Hmm. I've yet to fly my Gregga (this weekend=2C crossed fingers) but it ha s no trim and the fuel tank is in front of the passenger's cockpit. From s peaking to those that have flown it (my dad and 2 previous owners) it reall y doesn't present any sort of problem. JonJon From: eng@canadianrogers.comTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Pi etenpol-List: Elevator TrimDate: Wed=2C 12 Nov 2008 17:39:09 -0500 Tom=2C Just curious=2C but why are you asking whether a trim system is necessary A FTER you have designed and built one? Since there is none in the plans=2C y ou must have felt it to be necessary. In any case=2C from what I have read=2C a trim system really only gets used if you have your fuel tank in the fuselage=2C rather than the wing. As the weight of the fuel (located ahead of the CG) is depleted=2C the CG shifts =2C and having a flight-adjustable elevator trim helps to ease the stick fo rces required to compensate for the shift in weight. When the fuel is in th e wing=2C the weight is centered pretty much on the CG=2C so=2C once the pl ane is trimmed properly=2C fuel burn does not have a major effect. As with all "added features" on the Pietenpol=2C a trim system comes with a "price" - added weight. I haven't yet heard a Pietenpol builder regret making his plane too light. Bill C. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fast er_112008 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.