---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/15/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:11 AM - Re: Lockable Tailwheels (H RULE) 2. 06:37 AM - Re: Lockable Tailwheels (Jim Ash) 3. 03:09 PM - Re: Lockable Tailwheels (shad bell) 4. 03:20 PM - Re: build vs. buy? (Tom Anderson) 5. 03:27 PM - Re: Lockable Tailwheels (dwilson) 6. 03:31 PM - Re: Lockable Tailwheels (Richard Schreiber) 7. 04:24 PM - Re: Lockable Tailwheels (Jim Ash) 8. 04:40 PM - Re: Lockable Tailwheels (Lloyd Smith) 9. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: build vs. buy? (Gene & Tammy) 10. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: build vs. buy? (Jeff Boatright) 11. 05:20 PM - Re: Lockable Tailwheels (Jim Ash) 12. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: build vs. buy? (Jim Ash) 13. 05:28 PM - condition insp. vs. annual insp. (Oscar Zuniga) 14. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: build vs. buy? (Jim Ash) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:28 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels I don't have a lock and it's not steerable as yet.I use the-brakes and th e rudder to steer.I'm thinking of installing a steering mechanism using cab les to the rudder cables as others have done.-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________ ____________________=0AFrom: Richard Schreiber =0ATo : pietenpol-list =0ASent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:28:36 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels=0A=0A =0AFellow Pieters,=0A=0AI have a question for those who have built your own steerable tailwheels. Did you make them lockable or not? If they are steer able, without locking for takeoff, how do they behave in a crosswind? Most of the homemade assemblies I have seen appear to be non-lockable, while the purchased units like Matco or the ACSS Homebuilders special are lockable. =0A=0A=0ARicK Schreiber=0AValparaiso, IN=0A=0Almforge@earthlink.net=0A=0A =======0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:34 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels Your choices for tailwheels (once you exclude skids) are a full-swivel but not steerable, steerable but not full swivel, or lockable, which is a compromise between both. (Did I forget anything?) I have a lockable pneumatic (I don't recall if it's 6" or 8") Scott on my Cub. That after the little steerable solid rubber wheel with the bad bearings that was more skid than wheel. I didn't ask for a lockable tailwheel; it's what my A&P got for me and installed. But I'm glad he did. One of my hassles with the old tailwheel was ground handling. Rolling backwards pretty much necessitated me lifting the rear of the plane and walking it. With the new one, I can roll the plane backwards on all its wheels without having to lift it any more. It's never caused me any problems in a crosswind. The only goofiness to it is that when I want to unlock it, sometimes it takes a determined kick on the pedals to get it to 'snap out' of being locked. I don't know if the force required to get it to unlock is adjustable or not; I've gotten used to it and haven't bothered screwing with it. As I think about it, my next choice would be a full-swivel over a steerable. My brakes are good enough, and I can goose the throttle and wash the rudder to bring it around also. I got pretty good at it with the old lousy tailwheel, which steered rather poorly anyhow. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Richard Schreiber >Sent: Nov 15, 2008 12:28 AM >To: pietenpol-list >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels > >Fellow Pieters, > >I have a question for those who have built your own steerable tailwheels. Did you make them lockable or not? If they are steerable, without locking for takeoff, how do they behave in a crosswind? Most of the homemade assemblies I have seen appear to be non-lockable, while the purchased units like Matco or the ACSS Homebuilders special are lockable. > > >RicK Schreiber >Valparaiso, IN > >lmforge@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:09:37 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels We flew NX92GB for the 1st 2 years with a fixed non steerable t/w.- Taxi was a "think 5 min ahead" type of ordeal.- It was fine on grass, but coul d get dicy on a paved runway with a crosswind.- All was well untill that transition time where the rudder became inefective, but you still had forwa rd speed, and it would weather vane.- The brakes are not really strong so a blast of power and rudder was required to keep it on the runway.- The 1st time I experianced it I had to think quickly, after flying champs I was used to the tailwheel traction to steer in that situation.- I would reco mend at least a steerable T/W for your piet, unless you plan on never landi ng on hard surfaced runways. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: build vs. buy? From: "Tom Anderson" Thanks to all for your responses. John, I may make a "vacation" trip to WI to learn to fly that Cub. I may be in touch requesting some additional info. on it. -------- Location: Wilson, NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214394#214394 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lockable Tailwheels From: "dwilson" You need to see Ken Perkins steerable tailwheel... Look at his Mykitplanes site. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214396#214396 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:27 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels I have only had 1 landing in a tailwheel aircraft, a Luscomb about a month ago. Due to my inexperience in tailwheel landings what I was wondering (or maybe not understanding) is this. I plan on installing a steerable tailwheel. Do I need to have or is it desirable to have the tailwheel lockable. Will I gain that much stability in crosswind takeoffs and landings if the tailwheel will lock? I am not that concerned about having the wheel be full castering for ground maneuvering when I need to put the Piet in a hangar. Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell Sent: 11/15/2008 5:13:05 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels We flew NX92GB for the 1st 2 years with a fixed non steerable t/w. Taxi was a "think 5 min ahead" type of ordeal. It was fine on grass, but could get dicy on a paved runway with a crosswind. All was well untill that transition time where the rudder became inefective, but you still had forward speed, and it would weather vane. The brakes are not really strong so a blast of power and rudder was required to keep it on the runway. The 1st time I experianced it I had to think quickly, after flying champs I was used to the tailwheel traction to steer in that situation. I would recomend at least a steerable T/W for your piet, unless you plan on never landing on hard surfaced runways. Shad ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:04 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels For clarification's sake, my Scott tailwheel is called a locking tailwheel. By that definition, there is an additional moving mechanism between the wheel and the bellcrank. The 'locked' state means that this mechanism is engaged and locks the bellcrank to the wheel, becoming a steerable tailwheel. The 'unlocked' position disengages the bellcrank from the wheel and allows it to caster a full 360 degrees. 'Full 360 degrees' is actually kind of a lie. If the tailwheel is castered around to the straight rear positon, it will automatically lock again. This is how to get it to lock. To unlock it requires side pressure to 'break it loose'. Sometimes snapping the pedals quickly (with the wheel on the ground) will unlock it also. I suspect there's a littel ball-and-sprint detent mechanism inside it. Locked, by this definition does not imply 'locked straight forward' so much as 'locked to the bellcrank'. Is this everybody else's understanding? Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Richard Schreiber >Sent: Nov 15, 2008 6:30 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels > >I have only had 1 landing in a tailwheel aircraft, a Luscomb about a month ago. Due to my inexperience in tailwheel landings what I was wondering (or maybe not understanding) is this. I plan on installing a steerable tailwheel. Do I need to have or is it desirable to have the tailwheel lockable. Will I gain that much stability in crosswind takeoffs and landings if the tailwheel will lock? I am not that concerned about having the wheel be full castering for ground maneuvering when I need to put the Piet in a hangar. > >Rick Schreiber >----- Original Message ----- >From: shad bell >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Sent: 11/15/2008 5:13:05 PM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels > > >We flew NX92GB for the 1st 2 years with a fixed non steerable t/w. Taxi was a "think 5 min ahead" type of ordeal. It was fine on grass, but could get dicy on a paved runway with a crosswind. All was well untill that transition time where the rudder became inefective, but you still had forward speed, and it would weather vane. The brakes are not really strong so a blast of power and rudder was required to keep it on the runway. The 1st time I experianced it I had to think quickly, after flying champs I was used to the tailwheel traction to steer in that situation. I would recomend at least a steerable T/W for your piet, unless you plan on never landing on hard surfaced runways. > >Shad > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:10 PM PST US From: "Lloyd Smith" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels I think this clarifies some confusion, because there were aircraft that had true "locking tailwheels" that locked in the straight forward position when the stick was held in a certain position (something makes me think full forward). Anyone with high horse power tailwheel time can probably clarify this. Your style of "locking tailwheel" can be forced out of it's detent by a particularly strong gust, just the same as pushing sideways on the tail in order to get it to swivel into position to push into the hangar. On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Jim Ash wrote: > > For clarification's sake, my Scott tailwheel is called a locking tailwheel. > By that definition, there is an additional moving mechanism between the > wheel and the bellcrank. The 'locked' state means that this mechanism is > engaged and locks the bellcrank to the wheel, becoming a steerable > tailwheel. The 'unlocked' position disengages the bellcrank from the wheel > and allows it to caster a full 360 degrees. > > 'Full 360 degrees' is actually kind of a lie. If the tailwheel is castered > around to the straight rear positon, it will automatically lock again. This > is how to get it to lock. To unlock it requires side pressure to 'break it > loose'. Sometimes snapping the pedals quickly (with the wheel on the ground) > will unlock it also. I suspect there's a littel ball-and-sprint detent > mechanism inside it. > > Locked, by this definition does not imply 'locked straight forward' so much > as 'locked to the bellcrank'. > > Is this everybody else's understanding? > > Jim Ash > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Richard Schreiber > >Sent: Nov 15, 2008 6:30 PM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels > > > >I have only had 1 landing in a tailwheel aircraft, a Luscomb about a month > ago. Due to my inexperience in tailwheel landings what I was wondering (or > maybe not understanding) is this. I plan on installing a steerable > tailwheel. Do I need to have or is it desirable to have the tailwheel > lockable. Will I gain that much stability in crosswind takeoffs and landings > if the tailwheel will lock? I am not that concerned about having the wheel > be full castering for ground maneuvering when I need to put the Piet in a > hangar. > > > >Rick Schreiber > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: shad bell > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Sent: 11/15/2008 5:13:05 PM > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels > > > > > > > >We flew NX92GB for the 1st 2 years with a fixed non steerable t/w. Taxi > was a "think 5 min ahead" type of ordeal. It was fine on grass, but could > get dicy on a paved runway with a crosswind. All was well untill that > transition time where the rudder became inefective, but you still had > forward speed, and it would weather vane. The brakes are not really strong > so a blast of power and rudder was required to keep it on the runway. The > 1st time I experianced it I had to think quickly, after flying champs I was > used to the tailwheel traction to steer in that situation. I would recomend > at least a steerable T/W for your piet, unless you plan on never landing on > hard surfaced runways. > > > >Shad > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:47 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: build vs. buy? Tom, If your an EAA member give them a call and they can give you a full list of all instructors that instruct in tail wheel aircraft and where their at. There is also a web site anyone can go to that EAA has listed all of that info also but I don't remember what it is. If you need it just let me know and I'll call the EAA and find out. Gene ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:10 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: build vs. buy? That's right, and that's how I found mine who is willing, and has been, instructing me, in my Piet! > >Tom, If your an EAA member give them a call and they can give you a >full list of all instructors that instruct in tail wheel aircraft >and where their at. There is also a web site anyone can go to that >EAA has listed all of that info also but I don't remember what it >is. If you need it just let me know and I'll call the EAA and find >out. >Gene ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:03 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels My particular tailwheel takes quite a bit to unlock it; sometimes you really have to work at it to break it loose, to the point where I wonder if I shouldn't loosen the detent a bit. I can't imagine even being IN my plane in the kind of crosswind it would take to break it loose. Maybe others' tailwheels aren't so 'stiff'. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Lloyd Smith >Sent: Nov 15, 2008 7:39 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels > >I think this clarifies some confusion, because there were aircraft that had >true "locking tailwheels" that locked in the straight forward position when >the stick was held in a certain position (something makes me think full >forward). Anyone with high horse power tailwheel time can probably clarify >this. Your style of "locking tailwheel" can be forced out of it's detent by >a particularly strong gust, just the same as pushing sideways on the tail in >order to get it to swivel into position to push into the hangar. > >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Jim Ash wrote: > >> >> For clarification's sake, my Scott tailwheel is called a locking tailwheel. >> By that definition, there is an additional moving mechanism between the >> wheel and the bellcrank. The 'locked' state means that this mechanism is >> engaged and locks the bellcrank to the wheel, becoming a steerable >> tailwheel. The 'unlocked' position disengages the bellcrank from the wheel >> and allows it to caster a full 360 degrees. >> >> 'Full 360 degrees' is actually kind of a lie. If the tailwheel is castered >> around to the straight rear positon, it will automatically lock again. This >> is how to get it to lock. To unlock it requires side pressure to 'break it >> loose'. Sometimes snapping the pedals quickly (with the wheel on the ground) >> will unlock it also. I suspect there's a littel ball-and-sprint detent >> mechanism inside it. >> >> Locked, by this definition does not imply 'locked straight forward' so much >> as 'locked to the bellcrank'. >> >> Is this everybody else's understanding? >> >> Jim Ash >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: Richard Schreiber >> >Sent: Nov 15, 2008 6:30 PM >> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels >> > >> >I have only had 1 landing in a tailwheel aircraft, a Luscomb about a month >> ago. Due to my inexperience in tailwheel landings what I was wondering (or >> maybe not understanding) is this. I plan on installing a steerable >> tailwheel. Do I need to have or is it desirable to have the tailwheel >> lockable. Will I gain that much stability in crosswind takeoffs and landings >> if the tailwheel will lock? I am not that concerned about having the wheel >> be full castering for ground maneuvering when I need to put the Piet in a >> hangar. >> > >> >Rick Schreiber >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: shad bell >> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >Sent: 11/15/2008 5:13:05 PM >> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lockable Tailwheels >> > >> > >> > >> >We flew NX92GB for the 1st 2 years with a fixed non steerable t/w. Taxi >> was a "think 5 min ahead" type of ordeal. It was fine on grass, but could >> get dicy on a paved runway with a crosswind. All was well untill that >> transition time where the rudder became inefective, but you still had >> forward speed, and it would weather vane. The brakes are not really strong >> so a blast of power and rudder was required to keep it on the runway. The >> 1st time I experianced it I had to think quickly, after flying champs I was >> used to the tailwheel traction to steer in that situation. I would recomend >> at least a steerable T/W for your piet, unless you plan on never landing on >> hard surfaced runways. >> > >> >Shad >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:12 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: build vs. buy? I've got friends in central Fl who make their living teaching tailwheels: http://www.flytailwheel.com/ They used to have an L-3 (Champ), but I don't know any more. He's still flying the J-3. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Boatright >Sent: Nov 15, 2008 8:15 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: build vs. buy? > > >That's right, and that's how I found mine who is willing, and has >been, instructing me, in my Piet! > > >> >>Tom, If your an EAA member give them a call and they can give you a >>full list of all instructors that instruct in tail wheel aircraft >>and where their at. There is also a web site anyone can go to that >>EAA has listed all of that info also but I don't remember what it >>is. If you need it just let me know and I'll call the EAA and find >>out. >>Gene > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:35 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: condition insp. vs. annual insp. >From a guy who I greatly respect... A&P=2C Tech Counselor=2C builder=2C pil ot=2C and guru Jeff Scott:> Saying that they are pretty much the same about sums it up. Most mechanics > treat them the same=2C although technically s peaking an annual inspection is > an inspection for airworthiness while a c ondition inspection for an > Experimental is an inspection for serviceabili ty.> > Amateur built planes are not signed off as airworthy=2C but instead are > signed off as serviceable. It's actually a fine nit to pick as servic eable > and airworthy typically mean the same thing=2C but it doesn't put t he > professional mechanic in the position of making an airworthiness state ment > about your go fast special built with lumber from the local yard=2C gorilla > glue=2C Radio Shack electronics and hardware store bolts and plum bing=2C then > built from plans that were only used as a suggestive guideli ne. By stating > in the logs that upon inspection the airframe and engine a re serviceable=2C > the mechanic is not stating that those parts should be in the air or are > airworthy. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:16 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: build vs. buy? Brain fart - They moved their operation to Griffin, Ga this year. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Jim Ash >Sent: Nov 15, 2008 8:23 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: build vs. buy? > > >I've got friends in central Fl who make their living teaching tailwheels: > >http://www.flytailwheel.com/ > >They used to have an L-3 (Champ), but I don't know any more. He's still flying the J-3. > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Jeff Boatright >>Sent: Nov 15, 2008 8:15 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: build vs. buy? >> >> >>That's right, and that's how I found mine who is willing, and has >>been, instructing me, in my Piet! >> >> >>> >>>Tom, If your an EAA member give them a call and they can give you a >>>full list of all instructors that instruct in tail wheel aircraft >>>and where their at. There is also a web site anyone can go to that >>>EAA has listed all of that info also but I don't remember what it >>>is. If you need it just let me know and I'll call the EAA and find >>>out. >>>Gene >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.