Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Thu 11/20/08


Total Messages Posted: 21



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:32 AM - Behind By 21% - Advertising May Be Needed...? (Matt Dralle)
     1. 02:54 AM - Re: Engineering Feat (Glenn Thomas)
     2. 03:23 AM - Re: Machine Gun Plans (Richard Carden)
     3. 05:07 AM - Re: Hi again to the list from Japan (Mark Stanley)
     4. 05:15 AM - Re: Hi again to the list from Japan (Mark Stanley)
     5. 06:35 AM - Re: Hi again to the list from Japan (hvandervoo@aol.com)
     6. 06:58 AM - Re: Hi again to the list from Japan (Mark Stanley)
     7. 08:35 AM - Re: Engineering Feat (Michael Perez)
     8. 08:46 AM - Spar cuts for dihedral (Michael Perez)
     9. 08:58 AM - Re: Spar cuts for dihedral (Jack T. Textor)
    10. 09:18 AM - Re: Spar cuts for dihedral (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
    11. 09:24 AM - Center section hardware (Michael Perez)
    12. 09:49 AM - Re: Center section hardware (Bill Church)
    13. 10:50 AM - Re: Spar cuts for dihedral (Bill Church)
    14. 11:03 AM - Re: Spar cuts for dihedral (Phillips, Jack)
    15. 11:16 AM - Re: Spar cuts for dihedral (Jeff Boatright)
    16. 12:08 PM - Re: Center section hardware (Jack T. Textor)
    17. 03:09 PM - Re: Spar cuts for dihedral (Michael Perez)
    18. 03:19 PM - Re: Center section hardware (Michael Perez)
    19. 08:49 PM - Re: A huge Thank You to Chris Tracy (Rick Holland)
    20. 09:28 PM - Plexiglass Scratch Repair... (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:32:14 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Behind By 21% - Advertising May Be Needed...?
    Dear Listers, The percentage of people making a Contribution to support the Lists this year is currently lagging behind last year by approximately 21%! I'm hoping that everyone is just waiting until the last minute to show their support... ;-) Please remember that it is solely your direct Contributions that keep these Lists up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members don't want to support the Lists directly, then I will likely have to start adding advertisements to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I *really* don't want to have to start doing that. I really like the non-commercial atmosphere here and I think that a lot of the members appreciate that too. Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free operation of all these Lists: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already made their generous Contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator


    Message 1


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    Time: 02:54:17 AM PST US
    From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
    Subject: Re: Engineering Feat
    A great example of somebody using his head and being resourceful. Great video. On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:08 AM, TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com> wrote: > *Fellow Pietsters:* > ** > *Building a Piet seems to be one small challenge after another. Solving > each challenge is a thrill and really gives you a sense of accomplishment > that will be, hopefully, capped by that moment when our creations leave the > ground for the first time. The url that I am attaching has nothing to do > with building an Air Camper BUT it sure explains the feeling of > accomplishment. Enjoy!* > *http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/posts/moving_big_rocks*<http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/posts/moving_big_rocks> > ** > *Tom Stinemetze* > *McPherson, KS* > > * > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:23:22 AM PST US
    From: Richard Carden <flywrite@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Machine Gun Plans
    I was finally able to reach Mr. Story by telephone. Apparently there was some ongoing problem with my attempts by email. I placed my order for a set of his instructions, and if anyone else is interested, I suggest a telephone call to him at 913-788-5435. Dick Carden On Nov 20, 2008, at 2:57 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either > of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked > Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII > version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text > editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php? > Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-11-19&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php? > Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-11-19&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 11/19/08: 10 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:58 AM - Re: New Pictures on the web page (Jim Markle) > 2. 07:52 AM - Hi again to the list from Japan (Mark Stanley) > 3. 08:08 AM - Re: Hi again to the list from Japan (Dave > Abramson) > 4. 08:11 AM - Engineering Feat (TOM STINEMETZE) > 5. 08:34 AM - Re: Hi again to the list from Japan (Owen Davies) > 6. 11:39 AM - Re: New Pictures on the web page (Dick N.) > 7. 11:48 AM - Re: New Pictures on the web page (Gene & Tammy) > 8. 07:34 PM - Re: Machine gun plans (BScott116@aol.com) > 9. 09:12 PM - Piet on Barnstormers (gcardinal) > 10. 10:39 PM - Re: Engineering Feat (Ryan Mueller) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:58:20 AM PST US > From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Pictures on the web page > > Chris' comments about the control horns are right on the mark. I > think > they represent one of the most satisfying parts of the entire project. > When you first look at the design it's hard to imagine how easy > they are > to build and how strong they end up. That Bernhard Pietenpol > fellow was > pretty smart. > > I picked up a barely used Miller Syncrowave 250 tig machine > recently and > can hardly wait to try it out. The cost was next to nothing (it was > basically a "gift" from a friend) and the more I find out about this > thing the more I think it's WAY too much machine. But more is (in > this > case) better, right? > > In the last two weeks I finished up those 9" tall, half round cowling > support pieces that sit on the longerons and last weekend made the > pattern for the pilot's instrument panel cowling. Nice to be able to > see the cowling taped down...that's a very satisfying achievement. > > Sure is encouraging to read all the notes about people flying and > building then going out to my shop and actually making some sawdust > myself! This group is great. > > Jim in Pryor OK > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: catdesigns@att.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:04 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Pictures on the web page > > > Thanks Bill. The control horns turned out to be a very satisfying > project. These are the second set I made. The first ones were simply > bent into facets, kind of like the stealth fighter. Thanks to Jim > Markle for saying I could do better, these have the curved shape they > should. And I must admit are way better looking then the first set. > > As for welding, I had never welded an inch prior to starting to > building. I tried for 3 years to find someone to weld the fittings but > gave up and bought a gas welder and the welding video and book from > EAA. > Did some reading on the web and went at it. I can't imagine building > this plane and not being able to weld my own stuff. It comes in so > handy. And to think I was afraid of welding when I started. What was I > thinking. I like welding now so much so that I am thinking about > buying > a TIG welder. It's not worth the cost but it would be great fun to > have. > > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Church > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:06 AM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Pictures on the web page > > > Oh, in my last post I forgot to mention the great step-by-step > photos Chris added for the building of his control horns. > > To all those out there that are afraid of the built-up control > horns, you can see here that they don't take any special equipment to > make. A vise, a hammer, a couple pieces of rod, and a bit of bar. > Don't > know if Chris was an experienced welder before starting to build his > Piet, but he appears to be one now. So much nicer looking than the > flat > steel control horns (in my opinion, anyway). Well worth the extra > effort, and I would imagine a very satisfying part of the project. > > Very nice work, Chris. > > Bill C. > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http:// > www.mat > ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:52:48 AM PST US > From: "Mark Stanley" <mmrally@nifty.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hi again to the list from Japan > > > Hi everyone, > > It's been a long time with no writing. The two Piet projects over > here in > Japan land are still alive but in hibernation. > Life and work is way to busy so not much is being done on the Piets. > The 'want to' part and the 'able to' part don't quite seem to be > working as > one! > I still check the list out from time to time which helps to keep > the spirit > alive (thanks everybody) and I still fly my little R/C Piet around > the place > (it's fun) so hopefully, sometime we can get time to get the > projects moving > again. > You can't buy Stika spruce over here or 4130 so it also makes things a > little difficult. Those little luxuries need to be imported from > the USA. > My Japanese friend here managed to get some spruce for his fuz from > another > unfinished homebuilt project many years ago. > I used local Douglas Fir for my wing ribs (getting fir is no > problem) and a > friend from Australia hand carried some sticks of spruce to here > for me to > use on the tail feathers of my Piet (thanks mate!) > Just thought I would let everybody know what's happening at this > end of the > world (not that it of any importance really!) and the Piets may still > eventually, oneday, fly in Japanland. > Anyway, thanks to you all for keeping the dream alive, it really > does help! > > Mark Stanley > Japan > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:08:33 AM PST US > From: "Dave Abramson" <davea@symbolicdisplays.com> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hi again to the list from Japan > > > Hey Mark! > > I shudder to think what a hanger might cost in Japan....... any > idea????????????? > > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark > Stanley > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:50 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hi again to the list from Japan > > > Hi everyone, > > It's been a long time with no writing. The two Piet projects over > here in > Japan land are still alive but in hibernation. > Life and work is way to busy so not much is being done on the Piets. > The 'want to' part and the 'able to' part don't quite seem to be > working as > one! > I still check the list out from time to time which helps to keep > the spirit > alive (thanks everybody) and I still fly my little R/C Piet around > the place > (it's fun) so hopefully, sometime we can get time to get the > projects moving > again. > You can't buy Stika spruce over here or 4130 so it also makes things a > little difficult. Those little luxuries need to be imported from > the USA. > My Japanese friend here managed to get some spruce for his fuz from > another > unfinished homebuilt project many years ago. > I used local Douglas Fir for my wing ribs (getting fir is no > problem) and a > friend from Australia hand carried some sticks of spruce to here > for me to > use on the tail feathers of my Piet (thanks mate!) > Just thought I would let everybody know what's happening at this > end of the > world (not that it of any importance really!) and the Piets may still > eventually, oneday, fly in Japanland. > Anyway, thanks to you all for keeping the dream alive, it really > does help! > > Mark Stanley > Japan > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:11:27 AM PST US > From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engineering Feat > > Fellow Pietsters: > > Building a Piet seems to be one small challenge after another. > Solving > each challenge is a thrill and really gives you a sense of > accomplishment > that will be, hopefully, capped by that moment when our creations > leave > the ground for the first time. The url that I am attaching has > nothing to > do with building an Air Camper BUT it sure explains the feeling of > accomplishment. Enjoy! > http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/posts/moving_big_rocks > > Tom Stinemetze > McPherson, KS > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:34:15 AM PST US > From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hi again to the list from Japan > > > Among other very interesting comments, Mark Stanley wrote: >> You can't buy Stika spruce over here or 4130 so it also makes >> things a >> little difficult. Those little luxuries need to be imported from >> the USA. > Really fascinating to hear about Piets growing in such an unintuitive > environment! Please keep us informed. > > As for 4130, why not follow the designer's lead? Mr. P. undoubtedly > used > whatever steel was at hand, especially in the first planes. (Surely > someone talked to him about this issue and recorded the answer?) He > probably used 1020, which forms nearly all the structure of Piper, > Aeronca, Taylorcraft, etc., models pre-WWII. If you were building a > steel-tube fuselage, you could safely use pretty much whatever ERW > structural tubing is available at the nearest supplier. The fittings > aren't any more fragile. There really isn't any need to go to the > trouble and cost of importing 4130 unless Japanese regulations > require it. > > Owen > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:39:28 AM PST US > From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Pictures on the web page > > > Hey Oscar > We may have some snow on the ground but I haven't cleaned any bugs > off the > prop lately. With the front cockpit covered and the long undies in > place > I,m getting some good take off performance and still enjoying the > Piet. > Dick N. > in the skies over Mn and Wi. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:44 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Pictures on the web page > > > Wow, those are some nifty pictures on Chris Tracy's site! Dan > Helsper's > plane is going to be a beauty, with classic Air Camper lines and > features > and that 35 HP cabin heater up front! And the face-lift on the > Boatright > Piet is a day-and-night makeover all right! Chris' website is truly a > treasure and a beginning Piet builder could do much worse than to > spend an > hour or two just browsing the photos on that website to glean > details and > information that pictures can tell much better than words. > > PS, this past Nov. 11, Veteran's Day, marked four years since 41CC > went > nose-over. What a joy it's been to fly the airplane after getting it > repaired and back in the air though. You guys with snow on the > ground, I > feel sorry for you. We can still go out and fly anytime we want > down here > in sunny TX!!! > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:48:50 AM PST US > From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bellsouth.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Pictures on the web page > > > I'm with you Dick! No snow but it was 26 degrees and I had the engine > heater going by daylight. Winds came up before I could get the > engine > warm, so called it a day. I do love flying the Piet in cooler > weather. My > new taller windshilds helps a lot. Next project is a front cockpit > cover. > Gene in Beautiful Tennessee > > Do Not Archive > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net> > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:37 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Pictures on the web page > > >> >> Hey Oscar >> We may have some snow on the ground but I haven't cleaned any bugs >> off the >> prop lately. With the front cockpit covered and the long undies >> in place >> I,m getting some good take off performance and still enjoying the >> Piet. >> Dick N. >> in the skies over Mn and Wi. > >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:34:12 PM PST US > From: BScott116@aol.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Machine gun plans > > For machine gun instructions email this _address--- > nancystorey@aol.com-- _ > (mailto:address---nancystorey@aol.com-- ) for instructions/$20 > > > In a message dated 11/16/2008 7:28:04 A.M. Central Standard Time, > flywrite@verizon.net writes: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Richard Carden > <flywrite@verizon.net> > > I've had no success in reaching the gentleman in Kansas City who > reportedly has a booklet or set of instructions for making the > propane machine gun as per the kcdawnpatrol website. If anyone has > these instructions and is finished with them, I'd be happy to buy > them. Thanks, Dick Carden > > > **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social > networks, > and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com > %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) > > ________________________________ Message 9 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:12:20 PM PST US > From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet on Barnstormers > > Yesterday I posted a link to a project for sale. > I have pictures available for anybody who is interested. > > E-mail me off-list, I don't want to bog down the list with 8.5 mb of > pictures. > > One picture is included. > > Greg > > ________________________________ Message 10 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:39:42 PM PST US > From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engineering Feat > > Thanks Tom. Definitely not about building a Piet. But for the type > of person > that would even consider building a Piet, it's still informative and > entertaining. Thanks! > > Ryan > > do not archive > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM, TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com> > wrote: > >> *Fellow Pietsters:* >> ** >> *Building a Piet seems to be one small challenge after another. >> Solving >> each challenge is a thrill and really gives you a sense of >> accomplishment >> that will be, hopefully, capped by that moment when our creations >> leave the >> ground for the first time. The url that I am attaching has >> nothing to do >> with building an Air Camper BUT it sure explains the feeling of >> accomplishment. Enjoy!* >> *http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/posts/ >> moving_big_rocks*<http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/weblog/posts/ >> moving_big_rocks> >> ** >> *Tom Stinemetze* >> *McPherson, KS* >> > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:07:02 AM PST US
    From: "Mark Stanley" <mmrally@nifty.com>
    Subject: Re: Hi again to the list from Japan
    Hi Dave, You wrote; > I shudder to think what a hanger might cost in Japan....... any > idea????????????? Hangers here are a bit expensive. I don't know what they cost per month but if you fly into a airfield with a sealed strip and want to put your plane in the hanger overnight, it will cost you about $100 for the privilege.......I guess it's cheaper than a wrecked plane if there is a storm! The airfield where we fly from doesn't have any hangers. Allot don't, as the strips are along the river bank and each year the river floods when the typhoons pass by so everything needs to be shifted off of the airfield when that happens. Some of the aircraft have covers on them so that keeps most of the weather at bay. Generally, when the typhoons come, the planes on the field either get flown to somewhere safe or in the case of gliders or motor gliders, they get de-rigged until things get back to normal..............keeps us busy! Mark Do not archive


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:15:30 AM PST US
    From: "Mark Stanley" <mmrally@nifty.com>
    Subject: Re: Hi again to the list from Japan
    Hi Owen, Thanks for the steel idea, it is worth checking into. I guess we don't need a huge amount for the Piet anyway. Another friend of mine suggested going to a racing bicycle manufacturer as the steel that they use in the upper level bikes is of high quality. That also seems like another good idea. I think you may be correct, the Piet probably doesn't need 4130 anyway! Thanks Mark Do not archive


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:35:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Hi again to the list from Japan
    From: hvandervoo@aol.com
    Mark, 4130 is identical to: European standard steel DIN 25CrMo4, Or Japanes standard steel JIS SCM 430H BR Hans -----Original Message----- From: Mark Stanley <mmrally@nifty.com> Sent: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 7:14 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hi again to the list from Japan <mmrally@nifty.com> Hi Owen, Thanks for the steel idea, it is worth checking into. I guess we don't need a huge amount for the Piet anyway. Another friend of mine suggested going to a racing bicycle manufacturer as the steel that they use in the upper level bikes is of high quality. That also seems like another good idea. I think you may be correct, the Piet probably doesn't need 4130 anyway! Thanks Mark Do not archive =0


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:58:49 AM PST US
    From: "Mark Stanley" <mmrally@nifty.com>
    Subject: Re: Hi again to the list from Japan
    Hi Hans, Thanks for that info, I will check into it over here. Sounds like a better option than importing 4130. Useful info for repairs at work as well. Mark > 4130 is identical to: > > European standard steel DIN 25CrMo4, > > Or Japanes standard steel JIS SCM 430H > > BR > > Hans


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:35:13 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Engineering Feat
    Very cool, but I would like to know how he got the blocks to his house, how he got the blocks up on the stair case looking wood thing to roll it, how to get the blocks up on the stones to turn it, how to get the barn up on it's pivot, etc. Where there's a will...


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:46:24 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Spar cuts for dihedral
    When looking at the 3 piece wing plan, the spars are butt joined to the win g spars. For those of you who have some dihedral, did you cut an angle on t he center section spars? (or the wing spars?) From my calculations, it woul d take a very small cut to get a inch or so at the tip. It looks to me that the wing attach fitting takes the loads, so having a gap between the spars should not be a problem. This leads me to my next question:- if a gap is OK, why not cut the C.S. spar at an angle back to the first rib? Leaving, of course, material around that first bolt that attaches the fitting to the spar.


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:58:59 AM PST US
    Subject: Spar cuts for dihedral
    From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
    That's what I did Mike, about 3/16th in at the top. Also don't forget to round out underneath the wing straps so the straps from the center section can tuck behind the wing strap when bolting together. Jack www.textors.com


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:18:26 AM PST US
    From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Spar cuts for dihedral
    Wow, Mike, You re reading my mind I was contemplating an angular spar butt cut to create the dihedral so that it was a non gap fit at spar to center section. I just wasn't certain at the slight off 90 degree cut and what that number should be, 90.25, 90.5 91 or 92 degrees to yield the desired 1 to 2 inch elevation at the wing tip. I would be interested in the recommended angle to achieve optimum dihedral from the performance and appearance perspectives. Nobody really wants a limp or floppy Piet.... well maybe some do, just not me if I can avoid it. John In a message dated 11/20/2008 11:47:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, speedbrake@sbcglobal.net writes: When looking at the 3 piece wing plan, the spars are butt joined to the wing spars. For those of you who have some dihedral, did you cut an angle on the center section spars? (or the wing spars?) From my calculations, it would take a very small cut to get a inch or so at the tip. It looks to me that the wing attach fitting takes the loads, so having a gap between the spars should not be a problem. This leads me to my next question: if a gap is OK, why not cut the C.S. spar at an angle back to the first rib? Leaving, of course, material around that first bolt that attaches the fitting to the spar. ======== (mip://0460be50/3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution") ======== (mip://0460be50/3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List") ======== (mip://0460be50/3D"http://forums.matronics.com") ======== **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com ew-dp%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:24:44 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Center section hardware
    Does anyone have their center section hardware made, but not installed? I a m looking for a total weight of one center section hardware set.- The lon g wing attach strap, the welded cabane fitting and the top and bottom piece s that makeup the pulley holder.- No bolts, or pulley and only one set fo r one end of one spar. The picture attached is what I am after. This is a p icture from Jack T's website. (I hope he does not mind.)


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:49:39 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Subject: Center section hardware
    Of course, the quickest way would be to plop the parts on a scale and take the reading. But I would imagine that most of the completed fittings are mounted on spars. That being the case, it should be pretty simple to calculate: 4130 has a density of 0.283 pounds per cubic inch. A 12" x 12" piece of .080 steel has a volume of 12 x 12 x .08 = 11.52 cubic inches 11.52 x 0.283 = 3.260 pounds per square foot (or 0.0226 pounds per square inch, or 0.362 ounces per square inch.) Figure out the area (length x width) of the components (in square inches) and add them up, then multiply by the weight per square inch. Simple. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 12:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section hardware Does anyone have their center section hardware made, but not installed? I am looking for a total weight of one center section hardware set. The long wing attach strap, the welded cabane fitting and the top and bottom pieces that makeup the pulley holder. No bolts, or pulley and only one set for one end of one spar. The picture attached is what I am after. This is a picture from Jack T's website. (I hope he does not mind.)


    Message 13


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    Time: 10:50:54 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Subject: Spar cuts for dihedral
    Well, since you ask... For a 1" rise of the wingtips, the angle is 0.365 degrees For a 2" rise of the wingtips, the angle is 0.729 degrees I'm sure that information will be very helpful. Your angle setting for your miter saw (or hand saw) does adjust to three decimal places, doesn't it? _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar cuts for dihedral Wow, Mike, You re reading my mind I was contemplating an angular spar butt cut to create the dihedral so that it was a non gap fit at spar to center section. I just wasn't certain at the slight off 90 degree cut and what that number should be, 90.25, 90.5 91 or 92 degrees to yield the desired 1 to 2 inch elevation at the wing tip. I would be interested in the recommended angle to achieve optimum dihedral from the performance and appearance perspectives. Nobody really wants a limp or floppy Piet.... well maybe some do, just not me if I can avoid it. John


    Message 14


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    Time: 11:03:06 AM PST US
    Subject: Spar cuts for dihedral
    From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
    I did that calculation while building mine, knowing that I wanted about =BD " dihedral (not enough to produce any "Dihedral Effect" on stability, but t o avoid the optical illusion you get with a one piece wing that the wing is actually drooping). Once I saw the tiny angular difference, I just said t o heck with it - the spars can handle the deformation required, and I can't cut an angle that small with any accuracy. In fact, you could easily put that amount of dihedral in a one-piece wing. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:51 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spar cuts for dihedral Well, since you ask... For a 1" rise of the wingtips, the angle is 0.365 degrees For a 2" rise of the wingtips, the angle is 0.729 degrees I'm sure that information will be very helpful. Your angle setting for your miter saw (or hand saw) does adjust to three de cimal places, doesn't it? _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar cuts for dihedral Wow, Mike, You re reading my mind I was contemplating an angular spar butt cut to crea te the dihedral so that it was a non gap fit at spar to center section. I j ust wasn't certain at the slight off 90 degree cut and what that number sho uld be, 90.25, 90.5 91 or 92 degrees to yield the desired 1 to 2 inch eleva tion at the wing tip. I would be interested in the recommended angle to ac hieve optimum dihedral from the performance and appearance perspectives. Nobody really wants a limp or floppy Piet.... well maybe some do, just not me if I can avoid it. John _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese


    Message 15


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    Time: 11:16:20 AM PST US
    From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: Spar cuts for dihedral
    Our center section and wing panels are connected by the equivalent of a pair of large hinges, with hinge halves in the vertical middle of the butt ribs of the center section and each wing panel, and with pins being AN5 bolts (AN5 is by memory, so don't count on that). If the lift struts are removed, the wing panels can be raised several feet at the tip or lowered all the way to the ground. When the panels and center section are in the same plane (no dihedral), the gap between the butt ribs of a wing and the center section is about an inch. At 8:46 AM -0800 11/20/08, Michael Perez wrote: >When looking at the 3 piece wing plan, the spars are butt joined to >the wing spars. For those of you who have some dihedral, did you cut >an angle on the center section spars? (or the wing spars?) From my >calculations, it would take a very small cut to get a inch or so at >the tip. It looks to me that the wing attach fitting takes the >loads, so having a gap between the spars should not be a problem. >This leads me to my next question: if a gap is OK, why not cut the >C.S. spar at an angle back to the first rib? Leaving, of course, >material around that first bolt that attaches the fitting to the >spar. -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu


    Message 16


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    Time: 12:08:23 PM PST US
    Subject: Center section hardware
    From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
    Mike, No, I don't mind...Total hardware weight as shown in the picture is 41.7 ounces. The rear straps and pulleys come to 23.25 ounces and the front set is 18.45 ounces. For a total of 2.6 pounds or 2 pounds 9.7 ounces. It does include paint, no bolts. Jack www.textors.com


    Message 17


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    Time: 03:09:22 PM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Spar cuts for dihedral
    >From what I figured, with a 5" tall spar, 1 degree of dihedral over the length of the 158.5" long spar would place the end of the spar 2.766" higher then horizontal. The cut on the spar to get that angle would be .174" in at the top. Of course, I may had loused up the math...haven't had to do this is quite some time.


    Message 18


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    Time: 03:19:11 PM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Center section hardware
    Thank you Jack and thanks for the website picture use. What material and si ze pully is that? --- On Thu, 11/20/08, Jack T. Textor <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com> wrote: From: Jack T. Textor <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center section hardware Mike, No, I don=92t mind=85Total hardware weight as shown in the picture is 41.7 ounces.- The rear straps and pulleys come to 23.25 ounces and the front s et is 18.45 ounces.- For a total of 2.6 pounds or 2 pounds 9.7 ounces.- It does include paint, no bolts. Jack www.textors.com -


    Message 19


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    Time: 08:49:52 PM PST US
    From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: A huge Thank You to Chris Tracy
    I have worn out Mike's tape and my VCR player doing all those rewinds. Rick do not archive On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:07 PM, <catdesigns@att.net> wrote: > Thanks Mike, I have just about worn out your video tape. Its been a > great help to me. > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com > > Do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] <Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov> > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:40 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: A huge Thank You to Chris Tracy > > > Chris, > > I cannot tell you how many times I have sent the link to your photos of > Pietenpols to others. Just a fantastic wealth of > information you've compiled for us and I'm never surprised to learn a new > way that builders have come up with to build > the various parts of a Piet---totally creative and refreshing to see. > > Many others on the list maintain excellent builders logs, blogs, and web > pages and I often times will refer questions to > those other sites as well. What a talented a diverse group of guys in the > Pietenpol community. Just fantastic people > and most of them are nice even:) > > Mike C. > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado


    Message 20


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    Time: 09:28:29 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Plexiglass Scratch Repair...
    Dear Listers, During the fitting of the Plexiglass canopy on my RV-8, I managed to put some pretty disheartening scratches in the windscreen section. You can see from the pictures that they looked pretty bad. A call to Van's revealed that a replacement canopy would be $640 + $250 shipping to California! Ack. So what to do... A bit of surfing and I found this "Scratch Off" windshield repair kit for $35 on the Aircraft Spruce web site: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/scratchoff.php Frankly, it just seemed too good to be true. Nothing for $35 could be that "magic" I thought, but what did I have to lose at this point.... Well, the kit arrived yesterday and I decided to give it a try tonight. In a word: WOW! In about 2 hours the windscreen looked as good as new - no kidding - AS GOOD AS NEW! The pictures really don't do the repair justice. It looks better in person. There are basically two sponges in the kit with four decreasingly porous pastes. You just put some of the first paste on the sponge and buff it in with a drill at 1200 RPM or less. Then you wash everything down good including the sponge and windshield with warm water. Then you use the next finer paste and repeat the process. Etc, etc, until you've used the 4th paste that is kind of like car wax. Frankly, the scratches were gone after the first application of paste - I started at #2 based on the instructions and the "observed severity" of the scratch depth. So, the bottom line is, if you've got scuffs or mild scratches in your Plexiglass buy this repair kit. It works! Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880




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