Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:31 AM - Value of the List... (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:53 AM - Spar Varnish (Richard Carden)
2. 09:51 AM - Re: Spar Varnish (Dick N.)
3. 10:02 AM - Re: Spar Varnish (Ernie Moreno)
4. 10:02 AM - Re: Spar Varnish (Phillips, Jack)
5. 02:24 PM - Re: Spar Varnish (walt)
6. 03:02 PM - Re: Spar Varnish (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
7. 03:51 PM - Re: Spar Varnish (Gene Rambo)
8. 04:36 PM - Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives (Ben Charvet)
9. 07:06 PM - Spar Varnish, glue alternatives (Oscar Zuniga)
10. 07:15 PM - Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives (Ben Charvet)
11. 07:33 PM - Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives (Jeff Boatright)
12. 09:21 PM - Re: Spar Varnish (Gary Boothe)
13. 09:55 PM - Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives (Ernie Moreno)
14. 10:32 PM - Spar Varnish (Mark Stanley)
15. 10:42 PM - Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives (Ryan Mueller)
16. 10:57 PM - Spar Varnish 2 (Mark Stanley)
17. 11:16 PM - Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives (Clif Dawson)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Value of the List... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some lame magazine or even just a single dinner out. Isn't the
List worth at least that much to you?
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support the
Lists?
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far
during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively
through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Message 1
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Spar varnish from Ace Hardware has been recommended; is the
recommendation based upon some particular quality or capability of
the Ace product as opposed to, say, Sherwin-Williams spar varnish? Or
it a matter of economy. I'm about ready to apply varnish, and would
appreciate feedback, Dick Carden
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish |
I tried one of the hardware store brands on a couple of repair pieces a
while back and it came out with more yellow color than other parts. I like
Marine Spar Varnish by Minnwax. According to the tech rep from West System,
it is slower to totally cure than other varnishes. I don't know if that
means much of anything, but I think a slower cure should mean a more durable
finish in the end.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Carden" <flywrite@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
> <flywrite@verizon.net>
>
> Spar varnish from Ace Hardware has been recommended; is the
> recommendation based upon some particular quality or capability of the
> Ace product as opposed to, say, Sherwin-Williams spar varnish? Or it a
> matter of economy. I'm about ready to apply varnish, and would appreciate
> feedback, Dick Carden
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish |
The type of spar varnish you use is not important (ie. brand) as is the type
of covering system you use. An example would be if you use Poly Fiber
system, the Poly Tack glue will melt common spar varnish. But if you use the
Stewart System (water based) any spar varnish is ok.In the case of Poly
Products, it is best to use a Epoxy based varnish.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Carden" <flywrite@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
> <flywrite@verizon.net>
>
> Spar varnish from Ace Hardware has been recommended; is the
> recommendation based upon some particular quality or capability of the
> Ace product as opposed to, say, Sherwin-Williams spar varnish? Or it a
> matter of economy. I'm about ready to apply varnish, and would appreciate
> feedback, Dick Carden
>
>
>
Message 4
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I still like the epoxy varnish from PolyFiber. More expensive, but
bulletproof. No worries about the fabric finish lifting it. Absolutely
the best protection for wood.
As they say, the bitterness of reduced quality remains long after the
sweet taste of low price is forgotten.
Dick, I'll get a taste of cold weather Pietenpoling this weekend. I'm
going to fly mine up to Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia (about a 2 hour
trip) and leave it in my new hangar up there. I'll have the front
cockpit cover on and the cabin heat going full blast (it will slightly
warm my right foot). Temps should be in the 40' so not too bad.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N.
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
<horzpool@goldengate.net>
I tried one of the hardware store brands on a couple of repair pieces a
while back and it came out with more yellow color than other parts. I
like
Marine Spar Varnish by Minnwax. According to the tech rep from West
System,
it is slower to totally cure than other varnishes. I don't know if that
means much of anything, but I think a slower cure should mean a more
durable
finish in the end.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Carden" <flywrite@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
> <flywrite@verizon.net>
>
> Spar varnish from Ace Hardware has been recommended; is the
> recommendation based upon some particular quality or capability of
the
> Ace product as opposed to, say, Sherwin-Williams spar varnish? Or it
a
> matter of economy. I'm about ready to apply varnish, and would
appreciate
> feedback, Dick Carden
>
>
>
_________________________________________________
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish |
Just keep in mind that if you are using Poly Fibre or similar, with a MEK
base,,,the glue to attach the fabric will attack/lift the varnish.
You have to cover the parts accepting fabric with epoxy varnish.
You simply cover just the parts that will see the glue, and it works like
magic, and doesn't lift.
I found this out while attaching fabric to my fuse.
On the sides of the cockpits it started to lift, and it was too late to go
back. I added a strip of ply with nails to secure it, and that's how it is
today.
But I spread epoxy on the rest with good results.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Carden" <flywrite@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 7:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
> <flywrite@verizon.net>
>
> Spar varnish from Ace Hardware has been recommended; is the
> recommendation based upon some particular quality or capability of the
> Ace product as opposed to, say, Sherwin-Williams spar varnish? Or it a
> matter of economy. I'm about ready to apply varnish, and would appreciate
> feedback, Dick Carden
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish |
Doug Bryant and Chuck Ganzer used Ace spar varnish and told me that the
glue they used didn't lift the varnish,- however, I never asked what
they used. I just assumed it was Poly Fiber (Stitts) Chuck, if your
listening, chime in. Leon S. in Ks.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish |
I am using a polyurethane varnish, and it does not lift either.
Personally, I like the look of satin finish, if that makes any
difference.
Gene
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives |
I covered my fuselage with epoxy, and my wings with Spar Varnish... I
used about 3.5 quarts of spar varnish doing 2 coats, so you can save
some money by just buying a gallon to start with. After it was all said
and done, I'm using the water based Stewart System glue, sold at AS as
Ekobond. This stuff is great to work with and is odorless. I'm using
the water based Sherwin Williams system for paint and the Ekobond works
well with it. Just my $.02.
I've experimented a little with the Sherwin Williams latex. I bought a
gallon of gray in flat and a gallon of "buff:" in gloss. It took one
thinned brushed coat and two sprayed coats of gray to get opacity, then
two coats of color over that, thinned about 1/3 with water and applied
with my HVLP gun that I used to use to paint cars. The finish isn't
real glossy, but a kind of satin authentic Piet look. So far I've only
painted my tail surfaces. I got one wing covered last weekend, and in
the next few days (or weeks) I'll be spending some time with the rib
stitch needle. I made a rotator table out of two Work-mate tables so I
can swing the wing to do the work solo. I'll post a few pictures in the
next few days.
Stewart systems has a nice web-site and their whole application manual
is available there for free as a PDF file.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
walt wrote:
>
> Just keep in mind that if you are using Poly Fibre or similar, with a
> MEK base,,,the glue to attach the fabric will attack/lift the varnish.
> You have to cover the parts accepting fabric with epoxy varnish.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Spar Varnish, glue alternatives |
Ben;
I'm quite interested in your latex application technique. You say "thinned".
Does that mean you used Floetrol or water? Two completely different things, as
I understand it... water will thin the paint but Floetrol makes it flow out.
Not sure how much of that is product hype and how much is real. Either way,
one or the other is necessary for shooting latex from a regular gun so I'm curious
as to your technique.
So far, nothing but the very best for my "Flying Squirrel" fiberglass project airplane...
genuine Wal-Mart flat grey and flat white primers, never pay more than
$2 per rattle can ;o) However, if I ever get around to building the ultralight
version of the Longster that I have in mind, it will be fabric covered and
I'd like to use latex house paint on it. So far my experience with trying
to shoot latex house paint from a regular gun has been less than fantastic, but
I was too cheap to buy Floetrol and I work in pretty warm weather, which leads
to instant nozzle clogging.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives |
I experimented with Floetrol, windshield washer fluid, and plain old
water. The floetrol gave the worse results, and I couldn't tell the
difference between water and washer fluid. I was honestly surprised how
nice it went on with the HVLP gun. Getting it thin enough must be the
trick, and I was probably using a little more pressure than I would use
for an auto paint job, because there was more overspray. One thing I
did do was spray all the pieces flat so I could put on a good wet coat,
the water reducer/thinner allowed it to flow out very smooth. The
Sherwin Williams latex is quite thick, so I am using 2 parts SW to one
part distilled water.
Ben
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Ben;
>
> I'm quite interested in your latex application technique. You say "thinned".
Does that mean you used Floetrol or water? Two completely different things,
as I understand it... water will thin the paint but Floetrol makes it flow out.
Not sure how much of that is product hype and how much is real. Either way,
one or the other is necessary for shooting latex from a regular gun so I'm
curious as to your technique.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives |
Oscar, Oscar, Oscar,
I did our kitchen wall and backsplashes with 27 cans of 25 cent spray
cans (gloss white on clearance - glad it wasn't pink on sale!) from
Dollar General. Lasted 7 years with only one scratch! You, why you're
just throwin' money around with that EXPENSIVE stuff from Walmart!
>:-}
Jeff
Do not archive
At 9:06 PM -0600 11/24/08, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>...
>So far, nothing but the very best for my "Flying Squirrel"
>fiberglass project airplane... genuine Wal-Mart flat grey and flat
>white primers, never pay more than $2 per rattle can ;o) ...
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 12
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Hope you're right, Dick. I'm using spar varnish from Zinsser (Home Depot).
It takes a couple days to dry at 75 deg / 30% humidity! If varnish is
anything like cement, we're in good shape. :-)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)
(12 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N.
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
I tried one of the hardware store brands on a couple of repair pieces a
while back and it came out with more yellow color than other parts. I like
Marine Spar Varnish by Minnwax. According to the tech rep from West System,
it is slower to totally cure than other varnishes. I don't know if that
means much of anything, but I think a slower cure should mean a more durable
finish in the end.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Carden" <flywrite@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
> <flywrite@verizon.net>
>
> Spar varnish from Ace Hardware has been recommended; is the
> recommendation based upon some particular quality or capability of the
> Ace product as opposed to, say, Sherwin-Williams spar varnish? Or it a
> matter of economy. I'm about ready to apply varnish, and would appreciate
> feedback, Dick Carden
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives |
Oscar, I do not think that the latex house paint is a good cover process for
aircraft because of the weight of the paint. The Poly, Stewart, etc etc are
light weight processes for aircraft. The latex method has only in my
opinion, one good feature, it is cheap.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 7:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives
>
>
> Ben;
>
> I'm quite interested in your latex application technique. You say
> "thinned". Does that mean you used Floetrol or water? Two completely
> different things, as I understand it... water will thin the paint but
> Floetrol makes it flow out. Not sure how much of that is product hype and
> how much is real. Either way, one or the other is necessary for shooting
> latex from a regular gun so I'm curious as to your technique.
>
> So far, nothing but the very best for my "Flying Squirrel" fiberglass
> project airplane... genuine Wal-Mart flat grey and flat white primers,
> never pay more than $2 per rattle can ;o) However, if I ever get around
> to building the ultralight version of the Longster that I have in mind, it
> will be fabric covered and I'd like to use latex house paint on it. So
> far my experience with trying to shoot latex house paint from a regular
> gun has been less than fantastic, but I was too cheap to buy Floetrol and
> I work in pretty warm weather, which leads to instant nozzle clogging.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
Message 14
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Hi Gene,
You said you are using Polyurethane varnish. I'm no expert on the subject
but I think I have read reports that polyurethane varnish doesn't let the
wood 'breath' properly. Apparently 'normal varnish' (whatever that is) will
let the wood swell and contract as it likes.
I heard that with polyurethane, as the wood expands and contracts, the
fibers eventually become damage due to the polyurethane varnish not flexing
along with the wood.....................
At the place that I work here in Japan, we just use a clear spar type
varnish from the local paint shop or in some cases, a thin coat of whatever
glue we are using at the time. (only for small areas, i.e.; rib gussets etc)
Japan's climate is fairly 'moist' (summer is very humid, then there is the
rainy season as well) and I have seen cases here of wooden aircraft that
spend their life outside, having a wooden member which has basically rotted
away with the polyurethane coating still 'intact' so to speak !
.After saying all of that, in my copy of EAA Aircraft Building Techniques
'WOOD' book, on pg 94, under the sub heading "Protection against
deterioration", Tony Bingelis said (quote) "This treatment followed by 2 or
3 coats of a good polyurethane varnish applied to the structure helps seal
the wood and reduce its sensitivity to humidity changes".
He also said that T-88 epoxy glue thinned with lacquer to a brushing
consistency is a good surface treatment.
I think is Tony's advice in his books/articles is generally very good so I
am in two minds on this subject.
So,has anyone else had long term experience with polyurethane varnishes on
wood?
Mark
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives |
Steve E., one of the more prominent examples of Piet builders that painted
with latex, had an empty weight of 626 lbs with an A-65 powered
latex-painted Piet. That is a pretty decent weight for any Piet, especially
considering it was all Douglas Fir. As such it would seem that the weight
increase from latex versus "aircraft coverings" is minimal. I can't find any
mention of a concern about weight increase from latex in the archives.
It would seem that the good features of latex is that it works, and it is
cheap. Check out Steve's firsthand accounts at:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/steve_eldridge.htm
I'm not arguing latex versus dope/traditional, just pointing out that it is
a valid option.
Ryan
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Ernie Moreno <ewmoreno@minetfiber.com>wrote:
> ewmoreno@minetfiber.com>
>
> Oscar, I do not think that the latex house paint is a good cover process
> for aircraft because of the weight of the paint. The Poly, Stewart, etc etc
> are light weight processes for aircraft. The latex method has only in my
> opinion, one good feature, it is cheap.
>
> Ernie
Message 16
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Hi Gene,
I just posted a message and being the local village idiot, I wrote the
following -"He also said that T-88 epoxy glue thinned with lacquer to a
brushing consistency is a good surface treatment"
It should say 'T-88 epoxy glue thinned with lacquer THINNER to a brushing
consistency is a good surface treatment"
That makes more sense I think!!
Mark
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives |
So what's the weight difference with DRY paint?
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno@minetfiber.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives
> <ewmoreno@minetfiber.com>
>
> Oscar, I do not think that the latex house paint is a good cover process
> for
> aircraft because of the weight of the paint. The Poly, Stewart, etc etc
> are
> light weight processes for aircraft. The latex method has only in my
> opinion, one good feature, it is cheap.
>
> Ernie
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 7:06 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives
>
>
>> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>>
>>
>> Ben;
>>
>> I'm quite interested in your latex application technique. You say
>> "thinned". Does that mean you used Floetrol or water? Two completely
>> different things, as I understand it... water will thin the paint but
>> Floetrol makes it flow out. Not sure how much of that is product hype
>> and
>> how much is real. Either way, one or the other is necessary for shooting
>> latex from a regular gun so I'm curious as to your technique.
>>
>> So far, nothing but the very best for my "Flying Squirrel" fiberglass
>> project airplane... genuine Wal-Mart flat grey and flat white primers,
>> never pay more than $2 per rattle can ;o) However, if I ever get around
>> to building the ultralight version of the Longster that I have in mind,
>> it
>> will be fabric covered and I'd like to use latex house paint on it. So
>> far my experience with trying to shoot latex house paint from a regular
>> gun has been less than fantastic, but I was too cheap to buy Floetrol and
>> I work in pretty warm weather, which leads to instant nozzle clogging.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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