---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/26/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:08 AM - Just A Few More Days... (Matt Dralle) 1. 05:43 AM - latex house paint (Oscar Zuniga) 2. 06:12 AM - Re: latex house paint (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 3. 06:38 AM - Re: latex house paint (Gary Boothe) 4. 10:04 AM - Re: latex house paint (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 5. 10:22 AM - Re: latex house paint (Bill Church) 6. 10:33 AM - Re: latex house paint (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 7. 12:34 PM - Re: latex house paint (Ryan Mueller) 8. 01:31 PM - Re: latex house paint (H RULE) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:21 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Just A Few More Days... Dear Listers, There are just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser. There are some great gifts available when you make a qualifying Contribution and there's plenty still available. Don't forget that its *your* Contribution that keeps the computers running, the electricity turned on, and the computer room AC cooling! If you look forward to reading your List email each day, won't you please take a minute right now to make your personal Contribution? Credit Card or Paypal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Personal Check: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:35 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint Bill Church wrote- > > This is the first time that I have read that John Dilatush's (now Greg > bacon's) Piet was painted with Latex. > Is this a recent discovery? Well, I went back and re-read the info from John (down near the bottom, at http://www.westcoastpiet.com/steve_eldridge.htm ) and it actually says that he used the Fisher method, which involves black latex house paint as the primer, weave filler, and UV protection, and then applied automotive enamel over that. So I was only partially correct in what I said. On a completely different subject, I just noticed that Mike Cuy's Piet has brass leading edges on the prop. Hmmm... I don't remember seeing that in the construction videos. I sure like that look on a prop for these airplanes. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:44 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint I realize there is much I do not know about many things so it surprises me to learn that an automotive paint which I suspect would have been a solvent based enamel could adhere to a latex paint. It stands to reason the two materials are vastly different in chemistry and properties. The typical enamel automotive style coating would be a brittle material more rigid and with little flexibility other than its own expansion properties where as the underlying a latex material is a more flexible rubber type material with greater flex capability. When the skin needed to flex under load, the top coat automotive coating would be resistant to that mechanical stretching and begin to lose adhesion to its latex bonding base and chip off perhaps causing the cloth to follow. Although the use of automotive paint sounds attractive and would permit a nice smooth and highly more aerodynamic surface it doesn't sound practical over the latex base. I suspect one would have to uses an automotive primer, base coat and clear coat system to do it all properly. These are my own though's of how materials work and behave. I call once again on the collective wisdom and science of the experts and the coating Gods to show me the errors of my ways and point me the direction of truth. I would love to use a latex base and get the ease of application and cost benefit and the automotive finish topcoat if it is possible, practical and does not compromise safety of flight. It seems that like the airplane the coating systems are a series of compromises and there is just something about a wing loosing its covering in flight is just a bit more adventure than I care to experience. John In a message dated 11/26/2008 8:44:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga Bill Church wrote- > > This is the first time that I have read that John Dilatush's (now Greg > bacon's) Piet was painted with Latex. > Is this a recent discovery? Well, I went back and re-read the info from John (down near the bottom, at http://www.westcoastpiet.com/steve_eldridge.htm ) and it actually says that he used the Fisher method, which involves black latex house paint as the primer, weave filler, and UV protection, and then applied automotive enamel over that. So I was only partially correct in what I said. On a completely different subject, I just noticed that Mike Cuy's Piet has brass leading edges on the prop. Hmmm... I don't remember seeing that in the construction videos. I sure like that look on a prop for these airplanes. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:59 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint John, Flex agents are available for automotive paints.works well, highly caustic, though, and you would definitely want your own air supply. I learned this the hard way, and, for that reason, am very interested in the Stewart System. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint I realize there is much I do not know about many things so it surprises me to learn that an automotive paint which I suspect would have been a solvent based enamel could adhere to a latex paint. It stands to reason the two materials are vastly different in chemistry and properties. The typical enamel automotive style coating would be a brittle material more rigid and with little flexibility other than its own expansion properties where as the underlying a latex material is a more flexible rubber type material with greater flex capability. When the skin needed to flex under load, the top coat automotive coating would be resistant to that mechanical stretching and begin to lose adhesion to its latex bonding base and chip off perhaps causing the cloth to follow. Although the use of automotive paint sounds attractive and would permit a nice smooth and highly more aerodynamic surface it doesn't sound practical over the latex base. I suspect one would have to uses an automotive primer, base coat and clear coat system to do it all properly. These are my own though's of how materials work and behave. I call once again on the collective wisdom and science of the experts and the coating Gods to show me the errors of my ways and point me the direction of truth. I would love to use a latex base and get the ease of application and cost benefit and the automotive finish topcoat if it is possible, practical and does not compromise safety of flight. It seems that like the airplane the coating systems are a series of compromises and there is just something about a wing loosing its covering in flight is just a bit more adventure than I care to experience. John In a message dated 11/26/2008 8:44:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: Bill Church wrote- > > This is the first time that I have read that John Dilatush's (now Greg > bacon's) Piet was painted with Latex. > Is this a recent discovery? Well, I went back and re-read the info from John (down near the bottom, at http://www.westcoastpiet.com/steve_eldridge.htm ) and it actually says that he used the Fisher method, which involves black latex house paint as the primer, weave filler, and UV protection, and then applied automotive enamel over that. So I was only partially correct in what I said. On a completely different subject, I just noticed that Mike Cuy's Piet has brass leading edges on the prop. Hmmm... I don't remember seeing that in the construction videos. I sure like that look on a prop for these airplanes. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt Dralle, List e the es y - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================== _____ Lifoptin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:01 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint Gary, Where would I get information on the Stewart System is there a web site I can review to become familiar with their system? Please advise Thanks John In a message dated 11/26/2008 9:40:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gboothe@calply.com writes: John, Flex agents are available for automotive paintsworks well, highly caustic, though, and you would definitely want your own air supply. I learned this t he hard way, and, for that reason, am very interested in the Stewart System. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down) ____________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@a ol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint I realize there is much I do not know about many things so it surprises me to learn that an automotive paint which I suspect would have been a solvent based enamel could adhere to a latex paint. It stands to reason the two materials are vastly different in chemistry and properties. The typical enamel automotive style coating would be a brittle material mor e rigid and with little flexibility other than its own expansion properties where as the underlying a latex material is a more flexible rubber type material with greater flex capability. When the skin needed to flex under l oad, the top coat automotive coating would be resistant to that mechanical stretchin g and begin to lose adhesion to its latex bonding base and chip off perhaps causing the cloth to follow. Although the use of automotive paint sounds attractive and would permit a nice smooth and highly more aerodynamic surface it doesn't sound practical over the latex base. I suspect one would have to uses an automotive primer, base coat and clear coat system to do it all properly. These are my own though's of how materials work and behave. I call once again on the collective wisdom and science of the experts and the coating G ods to show me the errors of my ways and point me the direction of truth. I would love to use a latex base and get the ease of application and cost benefit and the automotive finish topcoat if it is possible, practical and does not compromise safety of flight. It seems that like the airplane the coatin g systems are a series of compromises and there is just something about a win g loosing its covering in flight is just a bit more adventure than I care to experience. John In a message dated 11/26/2008 8:44:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga Bill Church wrote- > > This is the first time that I have read that John Dilatush's (now Greg > bacon's) Piet was painted with Latex. > Is this a recent discovery? Well, I went back and re-read the info from John (down near the bottom, at http://www.westcoastpiet.com/steve_eldridge.htm ) and it actually says that he used the Fisher method, which involves black latex house paint as the primer, weave filler, and UV protection, and then applied automotive enamel over that. So I was only partially correct in what I said. On a completely different subject, I just noticed that Mike Cuy's Piet has brass leading edges on the prop. Hmmm... I don't remember seeing that in t he construction videos. I sure like that look on a prop for these airplanes. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt Dralle, List e the es y - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ____________________________________ Lifoptin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try th e NEW AOL.com. http://www.matronics.com/contribution _http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. m00000002) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:13 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint John, You didn't try very hard. I just googled "stewart system" and the company website came up as the number 1 site. Or just click here: http://www.stewartsystems.aero/ Bill C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:31 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint I suppose not, I goggled it and came up with a dozen Stewart's one of which was Martha and I know she's not coking up coatings in her kitchen so I figured I would ask rather than waste time on whats Martha up to today! Thanks for the link John In a message dated 11/26/2008 1:23:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, eng@canadianrogers.com writes: John, You didn't try very hard. I just googled "stewart system" and the company website came up as the number 1 site. Or just click here: _http://www.stewartsystems.aero/_ (http://www.stewartsystems.aero/) Bill C. (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:58 PM PST US From: "Ryan Mueller" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint Aha! I ran across this site the other day, thought it was amusing, but didn't think I would use it. Until now... http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=stewart+systems ;) Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Ryan do not archive On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Bill Church wrote: > John, > > You didn't try very hard. > I just googled "stewart system" and the company website came up as the > number 1 site. > > Or just click here: > http://www.stewartsystems.aero/ > > Bill C. > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:11 PM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint Auto paint was used on my wing.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________________ ___=0AFrom: Gary Boothe =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics .com=0ASent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:36:27 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenp ol-List: latex house paint=0A=0A=0AJohn,=0A-=0AFlex agents are available for automotive paints=85works well, highly caustic, though, and you would d efinitely want your own air supply. I learned this the hard way, and, for t hat reason, am very interested in the Stewart System.=0A-=0AGary Boothe =0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion=0ATail done, working on fu selage (endless metal parts!)=0A(12 ribs down=85)=0A=0A____________________ ____________=0A=0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:ow ner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com=0AS ent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 6:10 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.co m=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint=0A-=0AI realize there is much I do not know about many things so it surprises me to learn that an automotive paint which I suspect would have been a solvent based enamel co uld adhere to a latex paint. It stands to reason the two materials are vast ly different in chemistry-and properties. =0A-=0AThe typical enamel aut omotive style coating would be a brittle material more rigid and with littl e flexibility other than its own expansion properties where as the underlyi ng a latex material is a more flexible rubber type material with greater fl ex capability. When the skin needed to flex under load, the top coat automo tive coating would be resistant to that mechanical stretching and begin to lose adhesion to its latex bonding base and chip off perhaps causing the cl oth to follow.=0A-=0AAlthough the use of automotive paint sounds attracti ve and would permit a nice smooth and highly more aerodynamic surface it do esn't sound practical over the latex base. I suspect one would have to uses an automotive primer, base coat and clear coat system-to do it all prope rly.=0A-=0AThese are my own though's of how materials work and behave. I call once again on the collective wisdom and science-of the experts and t he coating Gods to show me the errors of my ways and point me the direction of truth. =0A-=0AI would love to use a latex base and get the ease-of application and cost benefit and-the automotive finish topcoat if it is p ossible, practical and does not compromise safety of flight. It seems that like the airplane the coating systems are a series of compromises and there is just something about a wing loosing its covering-in flight is just a bit more adventure than I care to experience.=0A-=0AJohn=0A-=0A-=0AIn a message dated 11/26/2008 8:44:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, taildrags@h ildrags@hotmail.com>=0A=0A=0ABill Church wrote-=0A> =0A> This is the first time that I have read that John Dilatush's (now Greg=0A> bacon's) Piet was painted with Latex.=0A> Is this a recent discovery?=0A=0AWell, I went back and re-read the info from John (down near the bottom, at http://www.westcoa stpiet.com/steve_eldridge.htm ) and it actually says that he used the Fishe r method, which involves black latex house paint as the primer, weave fille r, and UV protection, and then applied automotive enamel over that.- So I was only partially correct in what I said.=0A=0AOn a completely different subject, I just noticed that Mike Cuy's Piet has brass leading edges on the prop.- Hmmm... I don't remember seeing that in the construction videos. - I sure like that look on a prop for these airplanes.=0A=0AOscar Zuniga =0AAir Camper NX41CC=0ASan Antonio , TX=0Amailto: taildrags@hotmail.com=0Aw ebsite at sp; - - - -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List e the es y - - - - - -- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A___________ _____________________=0A=0ALifoptin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=e mlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.=0A -=0A -=0Ahttp://www.matron =0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.