Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:37 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 12/05/08 (Graham & Robin Hewitt)
2. 10:42 AM - TV Program (Alan Morrison)
3. 12:24 PM - Re: Leading edge material (Michael Perez)
4. 12:25 PM - Re: Leading edge material (Michael Perez)
5. 03:26 PM - Wing Load Analysis (gliderx5@comcast.net)
6. 04:45 PM - Re: Wing Load Analysis (Gary Boothe)
7. 05:15 PM - Re: Leading edge material (Bill Church)
8. 08:56 PM - to fly or build? (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
9. 10:05 PM - Re: to fly or build? (Ryan Mueller)
Message 1
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Subject: | RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 12/05/08 |
Re Carving Wing Leading Edge
I used 2" X 1" spruce which had one scarf mid way, using a router table
& a large half round cutter the front corners were removed, this saved a
lot of time.
I used a large industrial hack saw blade, a very accurate profile was
ground out on one edge, this was used as both a scraper & a guage for
the exact shape.
It was a slow job speeded up a bit by a small block plane to remove the
high spots, I avoided any power tools as the risk of taking too much off
was too great for me.
In two days of intermittent work I had all leading edges finished to
quite good accuracy.
Regards Graham Hewitt
Message 2
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I've just been watching a program on the Sky History Channel about the
battle for Vimy Ridge, during the 1st World War. It featured what looked
like an Air Camper with a Continental engine, pretending to be a 1917
observation aircraft. Interesting (and funny) sequence showing the military
observer trying to get in and out of the front seat!
--
No trees or animals were harmed in the transmission of this message.
However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily
inconvenienced.
Message 3
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Subject: | Leading edge material |
Bill, I am doing a Riblett wing and your 1.83" on the drawing does not appl
y to me. My measurement is 2.5 at that area. The front part of my rib is al
so slightly more flat leading to this leading area so a half round SHOULD b
e a nice transition. When I get it made and in place, it will part of my WI
NG HINT video for those interested.
-
This leading edge is not really challenging at all, I was just after what t
ype of wood people used.
Message 4
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Subject: | Leading edge material |
Yes Gary, scared to death. I can't stand the erie quiet when using anything
other then power tools! It's spooky!
--- On Fri, 12/5/08, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge material
Bill,
-
No flame directed at Michael P. (or any builders on this list), but I think
some individuals are scared of hand tools! My 7 yr old grandson wanted to
know how we fixed meals back in the old days=85..without a microwave.
-
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)
(12 ribs down=85)
-
Do not archive.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge material
-
Michael,
-
I'm having a hard time seeing how a 3" half-round is going to work for the
leading edge. By the time you plane down the flat side to match the width o
f the front of the rib (approximately 1 7/8" wide), the half-round will onl
y be a little over 1/4" "tall". See top part of attached PDF for illustrati
on.
At the bottom is a sketch showing how simple this really is (if you've got
access to a table saw). Like Jack said, , just take a 1" x 2" piece of Sitk
a (or whatever suitable wood you choose), and make two angled cuts (approxi
mately 19=B0 and 28=B0). Then, after the leading edge is attached, shape wi
th a block plane.
-
I don't know why so many builders-seem to be-challenged by this compone
nt of the plane. I can't imagine the hand planing taking more than an hour
to do. And like Jack said, it will be a pleasurable experience.
-
Bill C.
-
-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge material
Same with the half round Al. I will just be planning the flat, 3" is too la
rge, but as I plane, the width gets smaller. I can also choose between vari
ous woods. Not sure what handrails come in, but I believe most are hardwood
s which are heavy and I believe the size is too small for what I want to do
. - -
Message 5
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Subject: | Wing Load Analysis |
Hi all
I had some time on a recent business trip to take a look at the wing loads on the
Pietenpol Air Camper, and on the loads at the cabane fittings and at the lift
strut fittings. These numbers are of particular interest to me since I am modifying
the fittings and the lift struts. The write up is rather long, so rather
than take up space here I have posted it to my website. You can find it under
the Pietenpol page, there is a link to the wing loads page. More food for
thought. The Piets build per the plans are very strong.
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/
Message 6
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Subject: | Wing Load Analysis |
Malcom,
Thanks for posting that! Your calculations are reassuring for me, too, as I
am using wood cabanes and struts, with fittings of my own design.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)
(12 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gliderx5@comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Load Analysis
Hi all
I had some time on a recent business trip to take a look at the wing loads
on the Pietenpol Air Camper, and on the loads at the cabane fittings and at
the lift strut fittings. These numbers are of particular interest to me
since I am modifying the fittings and the lift struts. The write up is
rather long, so rather than take up space here I have posted it to my
website. You can find it under the Pietenpol page, there is a link to the
wing loads page. More food for thought. The Piets build per the plans are
very strong.
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Leading edge material |
Okay, Michael.
Didn't know you were using a different airfoil. If you're using the Riblett airfoil,
which I know has a considerably thicker section, then a 3" half-round may
be something that will work well for you. I don't know where you'd buy a half-round
that size, but you would want to make sure the grain is nice and straight,
and with acceptable amounts of runout. Again, it would likely be pretty easy
to make a leading edge from scratch, by making a couple of angled cuts, and
then a bit of work with a block plane. Of course, you may need to turn on the
shop-vac while you're using the block plane, to avoid being disturbed by the
"eerie" sound of the wood shavings quietly curling off the leading edge.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218058#218058
Message 8
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Subject: | to fly or build? |
I know=2C it's been a topic here before=2C but I wanted to share a dilemma
I'm facing currently and get others opinions. First off=2C I'm a private
=2C instrument rated pilot with about 350 hours. In recent years=2C I've r
eally had to cut my flying back to probably less than 20 hours/year=2C most
ly due to finances. I'm beginning to question whether this is enough to st
ay safe=2C especially in the IFR environment. I don't have a lot of cloud
time=2C in fact it was only a year ago that I got the IFR rating. Trouble
is=2C I don't really go anywhere - how can I when I only fly an hour or so
a month?
For similar reasons (finance and time) I've let my Pietenpol project sit fo
r about 2-3 years without touching it. I've got the fuselage about 2/3 com
plete=2C wing ribs done=2C tail section is 90% complete and I've gathered m
ost of the components for the corvair engine conversion. I really want to
work on it=2C but I can't really afford to do much each month with regards
to finances and mostly lack of time (I have a 2 year old).
I'm considering stopping flying altogether so that the money I am investing
in flying is being invested into my Pietenpol. My fear is=2C that if I do
stop flying=2C that I may never get back into it=2C and if I do=2C I would
never feel confortable flying IFR again with such a "break". My 2 year ol
d is real smart but very impatient=2C so I'm not sure if he's ready to star
t hanging around in the shop with me=2C unless I'm doing real basic stuff.
Not that I'm afraid to run saw around him=2C just that he'd pick up two ne
wly glued pieces of wood=2C right out of a jig and run around with it like
a toy - oh to be young...
The best rough guess I have to finish my Piet is about $5000-$7000=2C which
would take a few years (at the rate I've been flying) to come up with. At
this rate=2C I probably spend about $2500/year on flying.
Other than the obvious motivations for completing the Piet is some of my fa
milies health. I really want to complete it and have them see if fly befor
e they "go" and they want that too. Obviously=2C we never know if we'll se
e tomorrow so it may be a worthless goal to chase after but it is what it i
s.
Anyway=2C thanks for listening to me rant. I would appreciate any opinions
/ recommendations of people who've faced similar situations.
Tom B.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: to fly or build? |
Tom,
First off, just out of curiosity, is Michelle your better half or your
middle name? ;)
I'm not speaking from experience on most (if any) of this, but here are my
opinions on what you had to say.
It seems there are two main issues you are having. One issue is whether or
not you will get back to flying if you build the Piet by diverting the
available aviation funds towards the Piet. I would think that if you like
flying you will get back into it when you complete your Piet. Could you
imagine spending the time, money, sweat equity, etc on completing your Piet
and then saying: "meh, I just don't want to fly"? I would think you would be
even more jazzed up to fly after you finish your Piet!
As far as the worry about being safe in an IFR environment, that's simple.
Before you started flight training/IFR training you probably knew little
about it. But you learned and mastered the intricacies well enough to earn
your rating. As such, becoming current with your IFR rating after a
prolonged lack of use should now be even easier that it was to earn it in
the first place, because you are just refreshing and not learning from
scratch.
Finally, you address the fact that there are members of your family that you
would like to share the Piet with before they pass on; to me that is an easy
one. If it's between attempting to maintain IFR currency (especially if that
is not critical to your income), or completing the Pietenpol that both
yourself and your aged relatives want to see fly, I'd go with the Piet. We
only have one go around on this planet. Personally I would choose to do the
thing that I felt would enrich my life and the lives of my loved ones the
most. You may have many other opportunities to brush up on your ratings, but
how many chances will you have to share a Piet with those you care about?
Take the above with a grain of salt. I've not learned or experienced
anywhere near as much as most on this list; those are just my thoughts based
on what you had to say. Have a good evening, and good luck with whatever you
choose to do!
Ryan
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 10:55 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> wrote:
> I know, it's been a topic here before, but I wanted to share a dilemma I'm
> facing currently and get others opinions. First off, I'm a private,
> instrument rated pilot with about 350 hours. In recent years, I've really
> had to cut my flying back to probably less than 20 hours/year, mostly due to
> finances. I'm beginning to question whether this is enough to stay safe,
> especially in the IFR environment. I don't have a lot of cloud time, in
> fact it was only a year ago that I got the IFR rating. Trouble is, I don't
> really go anywhere - how can I when I only fly an hour or so a month?
>
> For similar reasons (finance and time) I've let my Pietenpol project sit
> for about 2-3 years without touching it. I've got the fuselage about 2/3
> complete, wing ribs done, tail section is 90% complete and I've gathered
> most of the components for the corvair engine conversion. I really want to
> work on it, but I can't really afford to do much each month with regards to
> finances and mostly lack of time (I have a 2 year old).
>
> I'm considering stopping flying altogether so that the money I am investing
> in flying is being invested into my Pietenpol. My fear is, that if I do
> stop flying, that I may never get back into it, and if I do, I would never
> feel confortable flying IFR again with such a "break". My 2 year old is
> real smart but very impatient, so I'm not sure if he's ready to start
> hanging around in the shop with me, unless I'm doing real basic stuff. Not
> that I'm afraid to run saw around him, just that he'd pick up two newly
> glued pieces of wood, right out of a jig and run around with it like a toy -
> oh to be young...
>
> The best rough guess I have to finish my Piet is about $5000-$7000, which
> would take a few years (at the rate I've been flying) to come up with. At
> this rate, I probably spend about $2500/year on flying.
>
> Other than the obvious motivations for completing the Piet is some of my
> families health. I really want to complete it and have them see if fly
> before they "go" and they want that too. Obviously, we never know if we'll
> see tomorrow so it may be a worthless goal to chase after but it is what it
> is.
>
> Anyway, thanks for listening to me rant. I would appreciate any opinions /
> recommendations of people who've faced similar situations.
>
> Tom B.
>
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