---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/07/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:37 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 12/05/08 (Graham & Robin Hewitt) 2. 10:42 AM - TV Program (Alan Morrison) 3. 12:24 PM - Re: Leading edge material (Michael Perez) 4. 12:25 PM - Re: Leading edge material (Michael Perez) 5. 03:26 PM - Wing Load Analysis (gliderx5@comcast.net) 6. 04:45 PM - Re: Wing Load Analysis (Gary Boothe) 7. 05:15 PM - Re: Leading edge material (Bill Church) 8. 08:56 PM - to fly or build? (TOM MICHELLE BRANT) 9. 10:05 PM - Re: to fly or build? (Ryan Mueller) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:29 AM PST US From: "Graham & Robin Hewitt" Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 12/05/08 Re Carving Wing Leading Edge I used 2" X 1" spruce which had one scarf mid way, using a router table & a large half round cutter the front corners were removed, this saved a lot of time. I used a large industrial hack saw blade, a very accurate profile was ground out on one edge, this was used as both a scraper & a guage for the exact shape. It was a slow job speeded up a bit by a small block plane to remove the high spots, I avoided any power tools as the risk of taking too much off was too great for me. In two days of intermittent work I had all leading edges finished to quite good accuracy. Regards Graham Hewitt ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:18 AM PST US From: "Alan Morrison" Subject: Pietenpol-List: TV Program I've just been watching a program on the Sky History Channel about the battle for Vimy Ridge, during the 1st World War. It featured what looked like an Air Camper with a Continental engine, pretending to be a 1917 observation aircraft. Interesting (and funny) sequence showing the military observer trying to get in and out of the front seat! -- No trees or animals were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:07 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge material Bill, I am doing a Riblett wing and your 1.83" on the drawing does not appl y to me. My measurement is 2.5 at that area. The front part of my rib is al so slightly more flat leading to this leading area so a half round SHOULD b e a nice transition. When I get it made and in place, it will part of my WI NG HINT video for those interested. - This leading edge is not really challenging at all, I was just after what t ype of wood people used. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:19 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge material Yes Gary, scared to death. I can't stand the erie quiet when using anything other then power tools! It's spooky! --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Gary Boothe wrote: From: Gary Boothe Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge material Bill, - No flame directed at Michael P. (or any builders on this list), but I think some individuals are scared of hand tools! My 7 yr old grandson wanted to know how we fixed meals back in the old days=85..without a microwave. - Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down=85) - Do not archive. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:10 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge material - Michael, - I'm having a hard time seeing how a 3" half-round is going to work for the leading edge. By the time you plane down the flat side to match the width o f the front of the rib (approximately 1 7/8" wide), the half-round will onl y be a little over 1/4" "tall". See top part of attached PDF for illustrati on. At the bottom is a sketch showing how simple this really is (if you've got access to a table saw). Like Jack said, , just take a 1" x 2" piece of Sitk a (or whatever suitable wood you choose), and make two angled cuts (approxi mately 19=B0 and 28=B0). Then, after the leading edge is attached, shape wi th a block plane. - I don't know why so many builders-seem to be-challenged by this compone nt of the plane. I can't imagine the hand planing taking more than an hour to do. And like Jack said, it will be a pleasurable experience. - Bill C. - - From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge material Same with the half round Al. I will just be planning the flat, 3" is too la rge, but as I plane, the width gets smaller. I can also choose between vari ous woods. Not sure what handrails come in, but I believe most are hardwood s which are heavy and I believe the size is too small for what I want to do . - - ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:17 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Load Analysis Hi all I had some time on a recent business trip to take a look at the wing loads on the Pietenpol Air Camper, and on the loads at the cabane fittings and at the lift strut fittings. These numbers are of particular interest to me since I am modifying the fittings and the lift struts. The write up is rather long, so rather than take up space here I have posted it to my website. You can find it under the Pietenpol page, there is a link to the wing loads page. More food for thought. The Piets build per the plans are very strong. Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:58 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Load Analysis Malcom, Thanks for posting that! Your calculations are reassuring for me, too, as I am using wood cabanes and struts, with fittings of my own design. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gliderx5@comcast.net Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Load Analysis Hi all I had some time on a recent business trip to take a look at the wing loads on the Pietenpol Air Camper, and on the loads at the cabane fittings and at the lift strut fittings. These numbers are of particular interest to me since I am modifying the fittings and the lift struts. The write up is rather long, so rather than take up space here I have posted it to my website. You can find it under the Pietenpol page, there is a link to the wing loads page. More food for thought. The Piets build per the plans are very strong. Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Leading edge material From: "Bill Church" Okay, Michael. Didn't know you were using a different airfoil. If you're using the Riblett airfoil, which I know has a considerably thicker section, then a 3" half-round may be something that will work well for you. I don't know where you'd buy a half-round that size, but you would want to make sure the grain is nice and straight, and with acceptable amounts of runout. Again, it would likely be pretty easy to make a leading edge from scratch, by making a couple of angled cuts, and then a bit of work with a block plane. Of course, you may need to turn on the shop-vac while you're using the block plane, to avoid being disturbed by the "eerie" sound of the wood shavings quietly curling off the leading edge. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218058#218058 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:15 PM PST US From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Subject: Pietenpol-List: to fly or build? I know=2C it's been a topic here before=2C but I wanted to share a dilemma I'm facing currently and get others opinions. First off=2C I'm a private =2C instrument rated pilot with about 350 hours. In recent years=2C I've r eally had to cut my flying back to probably less than 20 hours/year=2C most ly due to finances. I'm beginning to question whether this is enough to st ay safe=2C especially in the IFR environment. I don't have a lot of cloud time=2C in fact it was only a year ago that I got the IFR rating. Trouble is=2C I don't really go anywhere - how can I when I only fly an hour or so a month? For similar reasons (finance and time) I've let my Pietenpol project sit fo r about 2-3 years without touching it. I've got the fuselage about 2/3 com plete=2C wing ribs done=2C tail section is 90% complete and I've gathered m ost of the components for the corvair engine conversion. I really want to work on it=2C but I can't really afford to do much each month with regards to finances and mostly lack of time (I have a 2 year old). I'm considering stopping flying altogether so that the money I am investing in flying is being invested into my Pietenpol. My fear is=2C that if I do stop flying=2C that I may never get back into it=2C and if I do=2C I would never feel confortable flying IFR again with such a "break". My 2 year ol d is real smart but very impatient=2C so I'm not sure if he's ready to star t hanging around in the shop with me=2C unless I'm doing real basic stuff. Not that I'm afraid to run saw around him=2C just that he'd pick up two ne wly glued pieces of wood=2C right out of a jig and run around with it like a toy - oh to be young... The best rough guess I have to finish my Piet is about $5000-$7000=2C which would take a few years (at the rate I've been flying) to come up with. At this rate=2C I probably spend about $2500/year on flying. Other than the obvious motivations for completing the Piet is some of my fa milies health. I really want to complete it and have them see if fly befor e they "go" and they want that too. Obviously=2C we never know if we'll se e tomorrow so it may be a worthless goal to chase after but it is what it i s. Anyway=2C thanks for listening to me rant. I would appreciate any opinions / recommendations of people who've faced similar situations. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:14 PM PST US From: "Ryan Mueller" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to fly or build? Tom, First off, just out of curiosity, is Michelle your better half or your middle name? ;) I'm not speaking from experience on most (if any) of this, but here are my opinions on what you had to say. It seems there are two main issues you are having. One issue is whether or not you will get back to flying if you build the Piet by diverting the available aviation funds towards the Piet. I would think that if you like flying you will get back into it when you complete your Piet. Could you imagine spending the time, money, sweat equity, etc on completing your Piet and then saying: "meh, I just don't want to fly"? I would think you would be even more jazzed up to fly after you finish your Piet! As far as the worry about being safe in an IFR environment, that's simple. Before you started flight training/IFR training you probably knew little about it. But you learned and mastered the intricacies well enough to earn your rating. As such, becoming current with your IFR rating after a prolonged lack of use should now be even easier that it was to earn it in the first place, because you are just refreshing and not learning from scratch. Finally, you address the fact that there are members of your family that you would like to share the Piet with before they pass on; to me that is an easy one. If it's between attempting to maintain IFR currency (especially if that is not critical to your income), or completing the Pietenpol that both yourself and your aged relatives want to see fly, I'd go with the Piet. We only have one go around on this planet. Personally I would choose to do the thing that I felt would enrich my life and the lives of my loved ones the most. You may have many other opportunities to brush up on your ratings, but how many chances will you have to share a Piet with those you care about? Take the above with a grain of salt. I've not learned or experienced anywhere near as much as most on this list; those are just my thoughts based on what you had to say. Have a good evening, and good luck with whatever you choose to do! Ryan On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 10:55 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote: > I know, it's been a topic here before, but I wanted to share a dilemma I'm > facing currently and get others opinions. First off, I'm a private, > instrument rated pilot with about 350 hours. In recent years, I've really > had to cut my flying back to probably less than 20 hours/year, mostly due to > finances. I'm beginning to question whether this is enough to stay safe, > especially in the IFR environment. I don't have a lot of cloud time, in > fact it was only a year ago that I got the IFR rating. Trouble is, I don't > really go anywhere - how can I when I only fly an hour or so a month? > > For similar reasons (finance and time) I've let my Pietenpol project sit > for about 2-3 years without touching it. I've got the fuselage about 2/3 > complete, wing ribs done, tail section is 90% complete and I've gathered > most of the components for the corvair engine conversion. I really want to > work on it, but I can't really afford to do much each month with regards to > finances and mostly lack of time (I have a 2 year old). > > I'm considering stopping flying altogether so that the money I am investing > in flying is being invested into my Pietenpol. My fear is, that if I do > stop flying, that I may never get back into it, and if I do, I would never > feel confortable flying IFR again with such a "break". My 2 year old is > real smart but very impatient, so I'm not sure if he's ready to start > hanging around in the shop with me, unless I'm doing real basic stuff. Not > that I'm afraid to run saw around him, just that he'd pick up two newly > glued pieces of wood, right out of a jig and run around with it like a toy - > oh to be young... > > The best rough guess I have to finish my Piet is about $5000-$7000, which > would take a few years (at the rate I've been flying) to come up with. At > this rate, I probably spend about $2500/year on flying. > > Other than the obvious motivations for completing the Piet is some of my > families health. I really want to complete it and have them see if fly > before they "go" and they want that too. Obviously, we never know if we'll > see tomorrow so it may be a worthless goal to chase after but it is what it > is. > > Anyway, thanks for listening to me rant. I would appreciate any opinions / > recommendations of people who've faced similar situations. > > Tom B. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.